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swifty
04-27-2007, 11:33 AM
USB joystick and throttle?

I had to bite the bullet and replace my gameport throttle and joystick after a storm fried my throttle, so went with USB but could not afford the USB Throttle. Waiting for delivery today.

So will it work with my gameport pedals or will a gameport to usb adapter work? Just until I can replace the pedals in a few months.

swifty
04-27-2007, 06:04 PM
Anyone?

sgtspoon
04-28-2007, 06:29 AM
ok, so you are saying that you want to use gameport rudder pedals but USB joystick and throttle...

not really a problem with ww2ol as it can handle up to 4 seperate game controllers working all at the same time. so say you had 4 totally seperate joysticks *[see note below] plugged into your computer, in any vehicle crew position you can map any axis or buttons on any of those joysticks and they will all work. there really isn't a need to do all that but you could.

ok, to set this up properly, it depends a bit on if the joystick and throttle are also CH products. I'm a bit rusty on the CH drivers but I should be able to get you going at least...

I'm sure your are used to your joystick, throttle and rudder pedals all being considered the same controller [thus the same "joystick number" in the ww2ol keymapper] and plugging into each other and all that.

well, you can't mix usb and gameport exactly like that but that's ok, you just set them up as seperate controllers in windows.

first, you'd install the usb joystick and throttle's drivers and software and set it up as you normally would and make sure they are working properly. I believe CH allows you to combine these two devices in the driver software, but you can leave em seperate if you want. you won't be able to combine them to the gameport pedals, I think at least.

the pedal set up would be on it's own joystick number "say joystick one" and the usb joystick and throttle would be "joystick two" (if combined, joystick two and joystick three if not and all of this depending on if you have other game controllers plugged in, you can't predict really but it will be the same numbers with the same controllers plugged in but they will change if you unplug any). then you simply go into the keymapper with everything plugged in and working in windows and just move the axis that you want to map. you will need to remap everything, since the joystick numbers have changed, ww2ol doesn't "detect" anything and adjust the keymaps accordingly, it's "dumb" that way (tho really powerful in other ways).

also, you don't actually have to upgrade to the usb rudder pedals if you don't want or need to... if they work just fine, well, they work just fine. I know many people using the gameport rudder pedals and usb stick/throttles. tho the usb pedals would probably be a bit more precise, have less spiking issues and all that, plus you can "hot swap" usb devices (plug and unplug them without having to shut down the computer)

now to set up the CH gameport rudder pedals as it's own standalone controller, there's a couple different ways that's been done by CH over the years. which one you can use depends on CH really and maybe which CH gameport driver version you are using. I'm a bit hazy here but I'll go through the methods I know and you can look it up and try them.

ok, the way gameport rudder pedals work is that you usually have to have a gameport joystick plugged into them to get the computer to see them. you can't plug usb joystick into gameport pedals, just not possible and there isn't an adapter to do that (tho there is an adapter to make gameport into usb).

but don't worry, it's not that complicated really. all you need to do is get the gameport pedals to be recognised by the computer seperately from the usb joystick and throttle you are getting. I'm pretty sure that you need two sets of the CH drivers installed, one for the USB devices, one for the gameport rudder pedals. I'm fairly sure that there isn't one driver solution for both USB and gameport by CH.

there are two basic way to do this, either through a driver setting, special drivers (I know that CH has released them in the past), you can get a gameport to usb adapter (still using it as it's own seperate controller) or simply plug in any old gameport joystick and put it out of the way and not map it or you can use some of it's axes and buttons if you want, it's up to you.

ok, with the driver method, you may need to get the latest version or special drivers to have the pedals work without a gameport joystick plugged into them. just simply look for a setting to do that, I'm not sure what it would specifically say but it shouldn't be too hard to figure out, something along the lines of "use pedals as standalone" or some such.

now if you still can't get them to work on their own via a driver setting or special drivers, you can try a gameport to usb adapter (just make sure you get the right one that will work the ch pedals, and they aren't that expensive) or what you can do is plug in a gameport joystick to them, you can try your old gameport joystick (it may or may not work if it's fried) or a cheap 10 dollar joy, maybe even a broken one. all you simply need to do is stash the joystick out of the way (if you don't want to use any of it's buttons or axes for anything) and not map those axes or buttons to anything in the ww2ol keymapper.

if for some reason you get some wild input coming from the joystick's axes when you try to map in the keymapper (as in when you double click to keymap, it's registering that joystick as if you were mapping it instead of the one you want to actually keymap), you can go into the ww2ol "controllers" screen, choose the axis that is causing the problem on that joystick (by it's joystick number, ie. "joystick one x-axis") and simply move the deadband line (the left green line) all the way to the right and now all of the input from that axis will be "blocked" as the deadband setting is where the input actually starts registering on the axis, so if you move it all the way to the right, the axis would have to be pushed all the way to register any movement in ww2ol, thus effectively "cutting it off". so basically, the only reason the joystick is there, is to get the pedals recognised and working in windows and ww2ol.

you can actually map the axes on it if you want for prehaps as a huge view hat, mapping it's x and y axes to the "mouselook" functions under views but I'd think most people would just put it out of the way and not map any of it's axes or buttons in the keymapper.

So that's basically it. just think of the rudder pedals as seperate controllers from the usb set-up you are putting together, they'll each have thier own seperate drivers and settings and such...

some fun stuff I did was either modify the pin layout just minorly so that you could plug them in directly to the cougar or I'd make my own "breakout boxes", I'd get a cheap joystick, pull out all the wiring and pots, and depending on if the pedals had toe brakes or not, I'd make a box with one or three pots from the joystick as extra trim knobs or whatnot plus 4 extra buttons. see the first generation joysticks had the pins directly wired to the pots and buttons, the pots are just bascially "dimmer" switches and you can determine the position of the pot by just how much voltage is passing through it. which is why calibration is really needed, you are basically setting what voltage equals what position of the pot. the buttons are simply on/off switches, voltage/no voltage. and with win98se, you could choose some generic drivers from a drop down box (3-axis, 4 button joystick w/rudder pedals), if the pedals had toe brakes, I'd wire them to the pins for the X and Y axes.

I think the direct analog max for game port is 4 axes and 4 buttons, later on just before usb came along, joystick manufacturer's got around this limitation by putting a controller chip directly on the joystick and used the pins for communication between the joystick and the computer (the drivers that came with it deciphering whatever "code" they set up instead of taking direct voltage readings). CH also had a throttle that produced keyboard keystrokes, you'd plug the throttle into the PS/2 keyboard input and your keyboard into the throttle. there were even hybrid set-ups where it'd use both gameport and ps/2, it got quite complicated until USB came along...

__________________________________________________ ___________
*[each controller having up to 8 axes, 4 POV hats* (see below) and 32 buttons, for a total of 32 axes, 16 8-way POV hats, and 128 buttons, a mouse with up to 5 buttons (as in mapped as "mouse button 3,4,ect." and not as a keystroke or macro) and 105 keyboard keys (plus Track IR in it's native mode) in any one crew position in any vehicle at any one time plus any two or three key combinations (tho there are a few limitations with that specifically some keyboards can't do certain three key combos due to their design). so just leaving out the combos that's 32 axes, 2 mouse axes, 2 track IR axes, and a total of 366 seperate buttons in say the gunner position in a tank or in the pilot position of an airplane. just a "fun fact", lol. it's basically the direct x maximum.

*[most joysticks or Hotas controllers only ever use just one "POV" designation [POV1 North, POV2 SE, ect.] for the "Main Hat", the other Hats on the controller generally use button numbers for each of the directions on those hats.

oh and the 8-axes on a controller are named, X, Y, Z, Rotational X [RX], Rotational Y [RY], Rotational Z [RZ], Slider one, and Slider two. these are generally these motions on a joystick (tho it all depends on the manufacturer's driver set-up): X is left/right of the main stick, Y is up/down of the main stick, Z is usually throttle slider on Hotas, RX and RY aren't usually used [maybe as toe brakes on an attached rudder pedals], RZ is usually rudder control either twist stick, the x-45 paddles, or attached rudder pedal main axis, Slider one is usually the throttle slider on non-hotas joysticks or a trim knob, and Slider two is usually a trim knob.

swifty
04-28-2007, 08:44 AM
Thanks Sgtspoon for the help. I elected to use the old gameport fighterstick so the pedals get recognized until I get a usb converter.

sgtspoon
04-28-2007, 09:15 AM
yeah, you just need to tuck it away and not map it and you can use the usb stick if that's what you wanted...

the driver setting or special drivers shouldn't be too hard to find but hey, I mean the best solution is usually the simplest...