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Tzulscha

Met the former C.O. of Kampfgruppe "Lindemann"

521 posts in this topic

While I can't say for this individual...I do know from first hand accounts I've read that those who fought alongside the Italians in NA were impressed with their elan and pitying in their regard for the inferior/obsolete equipment such brave soldiers were stuck with. At least those key Italian armor and motorized units without which the Afrika Korps would not have had as much success.

!00% agreed Malize

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So how does this story end? Saw it was still here and had to ask after rereading it again. For those that don't know, there was a POW camp just outside Roswell, NM where some German units were sent after capture in N. Africa. It was a small town called orchard park. It has been years since I went there and the only thing left were the concrete blocks that were the foundations of the barracks and a bit of barbed wire. The POW's built a drainage canal through the town and on the side of one wall of it, (it is made of large stones and concrete) is an iron cross the POWs built into it with the year and unit number. It is still there and a small park has been placed there to view it. A great deal of the Germans were put to work on farms and many stayed on in Roswell after the war or moved to Texas and Colorado if they did not want to return to Germany.

Edited by omar67

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The best thread I have ever read. Good work! Ever since I was a small boy, I was fascinated with WWII books, stories...etc. Thanks for sharing.

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I find it very hard to see this as sad, he lived to a ripe old age of 90, how many did this man cut down in there prime while in NA, i know he was doing his duty and was likely brainwashed but still cant feel sad about him passing on. We tread a fine line in this community between interest and something much nastier and all together wrong.

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I find it very hard to see this as sad' date=' he lived to a ripe old age of 90, how many did this man cut down in there prime while in NA, i know he was doing his duty and was likely brainwashed but still cant feel sad about him passing on. We tread a fine line in this community between interest and something much nastier and all together wrong.[/quote']

This

We should be drinking to the old bastard long life and accomplishments though.

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I find it very hard to see this as sad' date=' he lived to a ripe old age of 90, how many did this man cut down in there prime while in NA, i know he was doing his duty and was likely brainwashed but still cant feel sad about him passing on. We tread a fine line in this community between interest and something much nastier and all together wrong.[/quote']

So you disrespect the man because he had many kills and call him brainwashed because he was German? What about Allied vets whom have killed numerous people during the war under the propaganda of their own respective nations? Should we not show sympathy for the Allied vets passing away based on your viewpoint? Yes, these men go to war and duty is expected of them, but an Allied vet is no better than Axis vet. Sure, I despise the warcrimes committed during the war. I'm disgusted by actions committed by some of the wehrmacht and waffen SS. But I also am just as disgusted by the bombs that leveled Germany to ruin. I think that you may be the one who is brainwashed if you buy into the whole "Brainwashed German" viewpoint.

Edited by snipey

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if he was SS then he prob was fond. they all loved hitler untill the war went the wrong way then cried. >i really dont blame them though. losing isnt popUlar. at the wars end hundreds of town people kept walking past AH"s hill house every evening looking for leadership or what have ya. sad indeed. the allieds had to close it off just to keep people from walking by.:rolleyes: theres some new hotels and stuff there present. anyways cool article. i saw it again and enjoyed. tell him wert says hi.

If he was a Waffen SS soldier, it does not mean he was fond of Hitler, nor does it mean he was a ruthless fanatic.

There is not just one evil group called the "SS." There was the Schutzstaffel (SS) which acted on the domestic political side of Hitler's party. Then there was the Waffen SS, a multi-national military force working under the orders of the Wehrmacht. The Waffen SS were like an auxiliary legion of the Reich from all countries across Europe. They were arguably the best soldiers in the war and were trained to be ruthless and brave no matter the cost. Yes they were exposed to much of Hitler's ideology, but the assumption that the majority of them were heartless fanatics is far from the truth. Many of them were country boys who were hand picked based on their ethnicity and combat potential through medical examinations. Most of the German Waffen SS soldiers never chose to join the Waffen SS, it was them whom were chosen by the State. They could have just as easily been put in the Wehrmacht upon their military recruitment. Then there was the international members of which, many of them joined from eastern European nations because they felt that Germany offered them a better life than the Soviets. All this being said, yes they had a reputation for brutal atrocities, but to assume that every member of this organization was an evil fanatic is not true.

Edited by snipey

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So you disrespect the man because he had many kills and call him brainwashed because he was German? What about Allied vets whom have killed numerous people during the war under the propaganda of their own respective nations? Should we not show sympathy for the Allied vets passing away based on your viewpoint? Yes' date=' these men go to war and duty is expected of them, but an Allied vet is no better than Axis vet. Sure, I despise the warcrimes committed during the war. I'm disgusted by actions committed by some of the wehrmacht and waffen SS. But I also am just as disgusted by the bombs that leveled Germany to ruin. I think that you may be the one who is brainwashed if you buy into the whole "Brainwashed German" viewpoint.[/quote']

Good post! This guy gets it.

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If he was a Waffen SS soldier, it does not mean he was fond of Hitler, nor does it mean he was a ruthless fanatic.

He wasn't SS. There were no SS in NA and he was in the DAK.

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This forum requires that you wait 45 seconds between posts. Please try again in 10 seconds.

Where is the discussion going?

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Where is the discussion going?

That members of the German armed forces like it or not, where allowing the pepugnant and horrific beliefs of the NSDAP to gain ground?

And people seem happy to ignore this fact.

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He wasn't SS. There were no SS in NA and he was in the DAK.

That is correct, but I was merely addressing ignorant comments about the SS.

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That members of the German armed forces like it or not, where allowing the pepugnant and horrific beliefs of the NSDAP to gain ground?

And people seem happy to ignore this fact.

Nobody is ignoring the horrors of war in general. But your anti-German sentiment is based off of information that I believe to be a lie and distortion of truth.

Edited by snipey

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I suggest all to have a listen to this podcast... really quite interesting. I am a huge fan of Radiolab: ok... the title is blocked due to forum restrictions. https://www.google.com/search?q=radiolab+summer+camp&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

So how does this story end? Saw it was still here and had to ask after rereading it again. For those that don't know' date=' there was a POW camp just outside Roswell, NM where some German units were sent after capture in N. Africa. It was a small town called orchard park. It has been years since I went there and the only thing left were the concrete blocks that were the foundations of the barracks and a bit of barbed wire. The POW's built a drainage canal through the town and on the side of one wall of it, (it is made of large stones and concrete) is an iron cross the POWs built into it with the year and unit number. It is still there and a small park has been placed there to view it. A great deal of the Germans were put to work on farms and many stayed on in Roswell after the war or moved to Texas and Colorado if they did not want to return to Germany.[/quote']
Edited by jphartt

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If the true veterans who actually fought the Germans in WWII can form friendships with them after the fact, bonded in the respect and understanding that combatants seem capable of; even after trying to kill each other while at war as nations (not individuals) why can't an internet warrior "with an opinion" avail themselves of this higher thinking ?

Mainly because they don't care to imagine anyone is better than they are in this respect. They can shout an opinion formed from their own ignorance and limited understanding or compassion, and use it to make them seem tough to the world on the internet they perceive as their audience.

Such people are pretty insignificant AFAICT, with a long way to go when it comes to spirit and knowledge.

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That members of the German armed forces like it or not, where allowing the pepugnant and horrific beliefs of the NSDAP to gain ground?

And people seem happy to ignore this fact.

It easy to be wise now afterwards when we know things better, but if we go to your logic we could also say that:

That members of the Western allied armed forces like it or not, were allowing the pepugnant and horrific beliefs of the Soviet Communist Party to gain ground. This lead to executions of millions of innocent people and many nations under tyranny for decades. Nations like Albania, Yugoslavia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Czechoslovakia, Poland, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia.

And people seem happy to ignore this fact.

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That members of the Western allied armed forces like it or not, were allowing the pepugnant and horrific beliefs of the Soviet Communist Party to gain ground. This lead to executions of millions of innocent people and many nations under tyranny for decades. Nations like Albania, Yugoslavia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Czechoslovakia, Poland, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia.

And people seem happy to ignore this fact.

I'm not going to ignore stark realities especially as I married into a family with Hungarian refugee's from the 1960's in it. Not to mention "Iron Curtain - The Crushing of Eastern Europe" by Anne Applebaum is a great book on this subject, which I would heartily recommend you to read if you have not already.

But, Take the Russian subject elsewhere, like this thread where the Russian's are praised for defeating Germany...oh but the cost for Europe:

http://forums.battlegroundeurope.com/showthread.php?t=463717

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