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bazso

need some help about my next system

49 posts in this topic

everyone i know i was asking a few months ago about a new system but stuff keeps changing i have also learned a few things since then and well just to let you all know a few things here:

1 is i am waiting on the new mobos that will support not only SLI abilities but also that will support DDR3 ram memo.

i have looked on new egg and some company web sits such as evga and asus.

i also need to know what them things are called that can control the speed of your fans i guess like some kind of monitoring system.

i am going to post a link and i need for you all to tell me what stuff i am missing from my list in order to make a complete system that will function the way my current system does.

now mainly what i am saying is stuff that will allow me to turn my computer on and it will work.

https://secure.newegg.com/NewVersion/Wishlist/PublicWishDetail.asp?WishListNumber=7668068&WishListTitle=art+uber+gameing+system

i need to know if a water cool system will be needed for the type of parts that i have in my system if you feel i do please speak up about it.

to be honest i would not mind staying with normal fans and all but i don't want a system that's going to melt its self apart because it has nothing to cool down with.

please also bare this in mind this system is not just going to be for ww2 online it will be for other games as well.

and for the sake of argument i do agree with all points of view about the type of processor i have but i like it is very powerful and its to fast for its own good and that's why i love it

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1st: To monitor and set speed on fans, search google for "speedfan", a nice application.

2nd: reviewing your list (the link you wrote), I would recommend the samsung 226BW monitor, it is 22" and not 24" as in your list, but it has 2ms responce time instead of "yours" that has 5ms. The smaller the better, responce time that is.

3rd: Wouldnt say you need watercooling, but atleast 3 fans, + the 1 on your video card so 4 in total.

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1st: To monitor and set speed on fans, search google for "speedfan", a nice application.

2nd: reviewing your list (the link you wrote), I would recommend the samsung 226BW monitor, it is 22" and not 24" as in your list, but it has 2ms responce time instead of "yours" that has 5ms. The smaller the better, responce time that is.

3rd: Wouldnt say you need watercooling, but atleast 3 fans, + the 1 on your video card so 4 in total.

ty for your time sir

well this is the thing i don't know to much about LCD's and at this point i am guessing and also do i have the right thinking about the fans they have it from what i was reading about it is the best ones they have for the best air flow.

P.S. made changes for the LCD monitor

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The samsung 226bw is very good, had it before. with 2ms you're pretty close to a CRT screen, that will give you almost optimal experience on the gaming front (as you needed it to aswell).

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The samsung 226bw is very good' date=' had it before. with 2ms you're pretty close to a CRT screen, that will give you almost optimal experience on the gaming front (as you needed it to aswell).[/quote']

ahh i see what your saying

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Okies Bazo going through that list.

Change the Creative SB X-Fi Xtreme Audio to a X-Fi Xtreme Gamer. They are two different cards, the Audio version doesn't support most of the X-Fi features (I should know I got the Audio version :( ). People who have bought the Audio are not happy about the fact they didn't get a 'true' X-Fi soundcard. The Gamer version isn't that much more expensive.

Water cooling is expensive, do you really need it?

Most people who get a water cooled system just have money to burn. If you're not planning on overclocking everything to the nth degree you'll probably not need it.

One thing to consider is your choice of the 8800 GTX, its a very nice card, but its 600 Dollars each. Two 8800 GTs would set you back about 500 Dollars and you wouldn't be that far away on the benchmarks (and use less power). Power comsumption means heat...the more power you use...the more heat you need to get rid off.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814500006

The slot cooler you'll probably not need (nor have room in a SLI rig) as long as you get the right case. Thats a BIG case, and top mounted ports are a pain in the neck. I'd recommend

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112100

A bit retro perhaps, but its function over form. Its desined for these later mondo large video cards with the airflow split into 120mm front intake to 120mm side blower to cool video cards and 80mm REAR intake to 80mm top blower to cool the CPU.

Nothing yet actually NEEDS a quad core, for 250 Bucks you could get the 3.0 GHz Dual core version...thats a big saving.

You left out memory on your wish list. You could get the lastest...but you'd be paying silly amounts for it. Why not go for 4 sticks of

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145183

Hint Intel processor don't gain much from tight timings like the AMD CPUs do, the FSB speed is the best indicator of performance.

You also left off HDs. Now you could go with a raptor...but they are VERY noisy. I'd plumb for 2 WD in a striped raid. This outperforms a single raptor and is a lot quieter (WD aren't the fastest, but they are very quiet and have the longest 'working hours' rating.

OK these suggestions aren't for the most 'uber of uberest' PCs, but you'll not feel so bad after dropping nearly 5000 USD on a system to see one thats slightly faster come out in 3 months time :)

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The 8800gts (G92 core) 512meg is faster than the 8800gtx in most benchmarks and it's about $200 cheaper.

$1000 for a processor is a total waste of money. I could spend $230 on an e8400 wolfdale core intel with a decent air cooler, overclock it, and totally smoke your $1000 processor in any game or benchmark. Dual cores overclock better than quad core's and quad core's do not benifit from the additional cores in gaming. They are only better at number crunching like CAD and video rendering stuff.

DDR3 is also a waste of money right now. Many hundreds of dollars for an extremely minimal 2% or so gain in performance.

You can get as fast of ram as you want you will still be limited by the cpu fsb. The ram can't talk to the cpu any faster than whatever the cpu fsb is set to. DDR2 1000 gives you 500mhz (2000mhz intel) fsb headroom to play with.. plenty.

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I would say building a new high end gaming system right now I would demand a 45nm wolfdale core intel processor. They are simply the best thing on the market at the moment.

Most are hitting 3.8-4ghz on air coolers in a good p35 or x38 intel chipset MB. 45nm, 6 megs of L2 cache, and 4ghz can't really be touched by anything else gaming wise.

I can't find any at stores I go to. They sold out quick. Here's one for $209

http://www.dealiverable.com/ssproduct.asp?pf_id=1011154679

Here's an article on the wolfdale.

http://www.tomshardware.com/2008/02/19/wolfdale_on_steroids/

They show lots of benchmarks against quads and they do quite well, but every one that's an actual game and not a video or synthetic benchmark the overclocked dual core wolfdale beats out the new $1000 quad cores.

wolf.png

wolf2.png

wolf3.png

wolf4.png

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Sorry for the long post, it's longer than expected.

For the CPU, you can look at layzboy's post of brenchmark.

Also, even your CPU has quad core, but the software application doesn't support quad core process, you gain nothing from using quad core.

So far I know, only Bio Shock support quad core process, but if you buy a quad core for only playing 1 game, it is just waste of money.

Dual core overclock is good enough.

For the memory, you also gain close to none if your CPU and memory do not match up the speed.

Also, just like layzboy posted, if one is faster than other, they end up have to wait for the slower one to finish process in order to continue their jobs, so it is no point using DDR3 memory while CPU speed only match DDR2 speed today.

Intel's 1333 MHz front size bus CPU today only match DDR2 667 MHz memory speed. If you want faster CPU and memory speed / timing match, you need to overclock them.

DDR3 is not needed today, and even few year in the future, CPU front size bus may still not be able to match up with DDR3 speed.

For the network card, I have never used fiber at home before, so I can't tell you for sure.

I don't think fiber optic network would help you much on gaming. Even your home has fast connection speed, the gaming server must be able to pump that much juice out on their side to match your speed in order to get real effective fast connection.

Today, no games ever need up to 2000Mbps speed like the D-Link, not even need the lowest 10 Mbps speed that D-link card supports.

Just a get an MB and use on-board ethernet or buy ethernet NIC for much lower price if you want to buy some more reliable / stable brand rather than (mostly Realtek) onboard network chip.

I worked in PCB assembly manufacturing and had chance to work on some fiber optic network systems. It is pain in the @$$ for maintanence.

We always have to clean up fiber connectors because everytime you pull them out of the system, any dust could get in the connectors, and then the dB gain drops.

If you don't clean them from time to time, the dust will block the connector interconnect area, then you get no connection at all. Even you don't pull them out, dust could still get into the connectors, and you still need to clean them from time to time.

Unless D-link use different type of physical connection to eliminate such problems, I high recommend you go back to use normal ethernet connection.

For the case and cooling, water cooling may cool the system down more than air cooling to improve performance, but it is much more expensive and pain for water cool to setup than air cool (unless you are very familiar with that), and usually air cool is much simpler to do.

However, if you want water cool rather than air cool to avoid components melt, I can tell you for sure that unless you are doing something seriously wrong, that will not happen.

It could be some short circuit that get high voltage sprak sometimes to damage the board, or very high temperature.

When I worked in PCB assembly manufacturing, I learned how circuit boards are assembled. Leaded surface mount ICs can sustain 183 degree C ( 361 degree F ) up to 30 seconds minimum, and lead-free surface mount ICs can sustain 217 degree C ( 422 degree F ) up to MIN 30 seconds. Capacitors, resistors, and other parts shall do the same.

Unless you get temperature higher than those temperature marks for that much time, the boards ain't gonna melt.

But if you can get the temperature that high to burn the parts, I need to seriously ask you:

Dude, what the F are you doing to your computer ?!:confused:

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here is the best case to keep things cool presently on sale for 99 bucks sometimes this case gets as low as 50 bucks and as high as 150 bucks so its all in the timing.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129021

As an example of how much this case improved my cooling without me doing a thing to it

my video card dropped from 60c to 45c idle. when playing games on it, it now sits around the 56-60c mark.

Its relatively quite depending on what you set the fan speeds to, and doesn't look bad at all. Plus if you look at the temp's between this and alot of the watercooled cases alot of the time this sets right in amongst them.

you can save six bucks by getting this

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106072

instead of the asus one as you are just paying for the name for the exact same product.

also if you get that case you can get rid of the pci cooler and case fan. save a few more bucks there not to mention the money you save between the case you picked and mine.

I like your choice of power supplies thou :D

this video card is cheaper with a better warranty

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130079

and last get this sound card. since i saved you a ton of money everywhere else this should almost turn out to be free.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829156005

ok maybe not last, get rid of the D-link fiber optic network adapter its not gonna help.

and switch the zalman to this

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835154002

Pretty huh? goes with the case. :) Not to mention you can have that thing blow the hot air straight up and out of the case via the 200mm fan.

Motherboard wise i would recommend going to ddr2 since it is sooooooo much cheaper than ddr3 atm and you are not really gaining much at this point in time due to the cas latency the lower the number the better and at 7-9 for ddr3 versus 3-5 for dd2 you would be better off waiting til dd3 improves say about a year from now.

heres a link to help you understand cas latency

http://www.dewassoc.com/performance/memory/cas_latency.htm

ok, thats a bought all i can think of that would help you out.

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Baz

Something nobody mentioned yet:

First off the video card you chose has a water-cooling block, so in order to use it, you would need a water-cooling system. That's why the card is selling for $600. In other words, you *can't* use that card unless you have a water-cooling system already in place. It has a copper block with fittings for tubes; you have to supply the tubes and the water source.

Second, like others here have said, not much point buying an 8800GTX these days when the 8800GTS 512 does about the same or better in any situation and the 8800GT also beats the 8800GTX is some situations. And since both the 8800GTS 512mb and the 8800GT use a smaller, more efficient gpu, they can also overclock a lot higher than an 8800GTX. You don't have to spend that much money these days to get the best performance. Also, the 9800GTX and 9800GX2 are coming very very soon. Apparently the release date is March 11th.

You can compare SLI performance here:

http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics_sli2007.html

Notice that the 8800GT OC sli beats the 8800GTX sli in almost every game?

About the CPU:

Every one here is right- No good reason to spend $1000 on a cpu.

And as usual, lazy's advice is spot-on here;

I would say building a new high end gaming system right now I would demand a 45nm wolfdale core intel processor. They are simply the best thing on the market at the moment.

And like Gerrard said, the Xtreme Audio isn't a good sound card.

This thread is illuminating:

http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=200348

The Xtreme Gamer would be solid choice, but if you really want to spend some coin on a sound card, you could get the Auzentech Prelude.

The Zalman cooler is good, but since you're going to have a lot of space inside that giant case, you could get a big tower cooler, like the Tuniq Tower or the Thermalright Ultra-120...

Speaking of the case, I'm just not sure you really need that giant case you chose. It's optimized for water cooling, with a giant top section designed to hold an interior radiator, pump, etc. Like ycluk said, water-cooling is expensive and a pain to install and maintain. Not necessary, even if you OC your system.

I'd recommend a good ATX Full Tower case rather than a giant HTPC/media center case.

Here are some good ones:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119122

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811133154

And if you wanted to go a tiny bit smaller, this is the mid-tower atx case that I'm currently using, it's the same one Ramsey mentioned:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129021

I just bought this case a month ago, and I can tell you my CPU temps went down ~5-10C with nothing different other than the case. I was shocked. One of the coolest cases on the market; great airflow, and a giant 200mm top fan. Also very quiet and an excellent price. You can also add an additional 120mm fan on the side and on the inside right next to the video card.

If you're looking for a good 120mm fan, the Scythe brand fans are considered by many to be a good choice in terms of noise and airflow.

BTW, the pci slot cooler is totally unnecessary if you a decent case with good cooling.

As for the PSU, I'm not really sure you would need 1200 watts. With two 8800GTS 512s or 8800GTs in SLI and all the other components, you still wouldn't be close to that much wattage. I think that PSU is really for people who are straining their PSUs with additional components like water cooling units, etc.

I really don't think you need anything higher than 700-1000W.

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Here's a good MB of the same chipset getting excellent reviews. It's $60 cheaper than your open box Asus. Personally with the rep Asus has got for unreliability in the last year or 2 I'd take EVGA or Gigabyte over them.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188024

I bet this is all the PSU you need.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139002

650watts doesn't sound like a heck of a lot to some people these days but it's plenty. That's continuous watts not peak like some are rated. The Corsairs are also built to be gaming PSU's. They're rated at 10 celcius higher than most other PSU's. That makes a big difference in the output. This 650watt PSU compares with most 750's and 800's. I'd say a 1200watt psu is not necessary.

$400 for your ram? I think you can do much cheaper.

Here's a latency 5 ddr1066 4 gig 2 chip kit of Gskill for $169

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231166

It's the same timings as your chips for $50 less each kit.

I really don't think 8 gigs of ram is needed and someone correct me if I'm wrong but I'd venture to say that 4 gigs compared with 8 gigs would not help you 1 bit in any application. Certainly not in a game. It won't give you 1 fps. All it is is spending money to say you have 8 gigs like it sounds impressive. 4 gigs is enough, even on vista with a quad core.

The Zalman is louder and gets beat by a few degrees by quite a few coolers these days. This is one of them. It's usually cheaper than the Zalman too.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835887011

I looked up a review it even beat out the tuniq tower. The only one it didn't beat out was the thermalright ultra 120 but that thing is usually $65 without a fan and I've seen the Zerotherm on sale for $39 ready to go. Newegg can't seem to keep thermalright's stuff in stock either.

There's a tuniq tower on sale for $39 right now. It outperforms the Zalman and it's quieter.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835154001

This is also a nice cooler.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835185027

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lazy ty so very much for your time sir

sir i am not worried about how much it cost's me i want the absolute best i want a system thats going to last me for a good while before i think i got to upgrade again

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Careful of cases that mount the PSU at the bottom of the case. Many times it causes certain cords to not be long enough.

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Did I see 9600gt's in the list? You're spending over $3000 on a rig get the 8800gts 512meg at least. It outperforms the 9600 by a good margin even though the 9600 is newer.

If you want to have a really cool rig that might last a long time before being updated as someone else mentioned the new 9800 gforce card is coming out soon. Supposedly march 11th. If you can hold out till then you could get it right when it comes out.

Check out this rig.

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Gaming-Computer-PC-Wolfdale-HD-3870-X2-Crossfire_W0QQitemZ130202164581QQihZ003QQcategoryZ140076QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

For under $900 at your door it could actually outperform what's in you $3800 wish list by a considerable amount. I guess that's about what the auction is at now. It could go up.

Specs.jpg

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Did I see 9600gt's in the list? You're spending over $3000 on a rig get the 8800gts 512meg at least. It outperforms the 9600 by a good margin even though the 9600 is newer.

If you want to have a really cool rig that might last a long time before being updated as someone else mentioned the new 9800 gforce card is coming out soon. Supposedly march 11th. If you can hold out till then you could get it right when it comes out.

Check out this rig.

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Gaming-Computer-PC-Wolfdale-HD-3870-X2-Crossfire_W0QQitemZ130202164581QQihZ003QQcategoryZ140076QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

For under $900 at your door it could actually outperform what's in you $3800 wish list by a considerable amount. I guess that's about what the auction is at now. It could go up.

Specs.jpg

lazy bud did you see how much they costed on new egg a:

Leadtek PX9600GT Extreme GeForce 9600GT 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail

cost's only $379.98 for 2 of em

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I thought you said you didn't care about cost? I'd get rid of the $1000 processor and go with 4 gigs of ram before I went from an 8800gts 512meg to a 9600gt. If you want to save that's one way to do it, not on the video card. Your talking about saving a mear $200 when you could slice $700 off of your processor's cost and not even miss it in games. In fact in games an e8400 wolfdale/8800gts 512meg combo/4 gigs ram vs an Q9650/9600gt/8 gigs ram combo. The wolfdale with the better video card would smoke the quad in fps performance.

2 9600's might be about the same speed as 1 8800gts 512. 2 card aren't twice as fast. It's about 25-30% faster in games that support dual cards. The 8800gts 512 is already 25% faster than the 9600gt.

For $450 you can get an ATI 3870 X2 dual core video card with 1 gig of vram. It's slightly faster than the 8800ultra in most benches and it would probably be faster than 2 9600's sli'd.

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I thought you said you didn't care about cost? I'd get rid of the $1000 processor and go with 4 gigs of ram before I went from an 8800gts 512meg to a 9600gt. If you want to save that's one way to do it, not on the video card. Your talking about saving a mear $200 when you could slice $700 off of your processor's cost and not even miss it in games. In fact in games an e8400 wolfdale/8800gts 512meg combo/4 gigs ram vs an Q9650/9600gt/8 gigs ram combo. The wolfdale with the better video card would smoke the quad in fps performance.

2 9600's might be about the same speed as 1 8800gts 512. 2 card aren't twice as fast. It's about 25-30% faster in games that support dual cards. The 8800gts 512 is already 25% faster than the 9600gt.

For $450 you can get an ATI 3870 X2 dual core video card with 1 gig of vram. It's slightly faster than the 8800ultra in most benches and it would probably be faster than 2 9600's sli'd.

yeah i know i would be losing some of the Memory Clock but the Core clock looks like its well worth it but then again i am sure i am sadly mistaken

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Careful of cases that mount the PSU at the bottom of the case. Many times it causes certain cords to not be long enough.

Using the Antec 900 with PSU at the bottom, I *did* have a slight issue with the 12v connector; on my motherboard, the connection is at the top, so it was pretty tricky to get the cable to reach that high, but I got it connected and it's working 100% fine now. That bit of trouble was well worth it for the superior cooling this case offers, IMO.

There are plenty of other good cases with conventional PSU placement, Antec 900 is just at a good price point if money is a concern.

As for the 9600GT, while it's dirt cheap, it's not the best; and even after all this time, I still think SLI is just a marketing gimmick. It can give you great benchmarks in apps like 3DMARK06 that are specifically designed to benefit from SLI, but in actual games, the performance increase is usually modest at best, and most games aren't even optimized for SLI.

If money is really no object here, then you won't want to get a 9600GT.

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