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bazso

need some help about my next system

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You'd be hard pressed to find articles that will compare the 8800gts 512meg and the 9600gt for some reason. They are in different price ranges. The standard 8800gt actually beats out the 9600gt fairly well too. That would be another alternative. MSI makes an 8800gt OC edition with a nice aftermarket cooler down to $216 now. $186 after mail in. About the same price after rebate as the 9600gt but at least 10-20% faster. This version of the 8800gt runs at 660mhz core and 1900mhz memory. The cooler is designed by zalman. If you search 8800gt zilent you can find the same card with a zalman stamp on the cooler. The 8800gt's had a rep for running hot because of the single slot cooler most have.

Great card.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127329

I had to raid 2 different articles to get benchmarks for the same game with the 8800gts 512meg and the 9600gt 512meg. The upper chart must be older drivers. You can see the 8800gt went up 8fps between the two tests, but you get the idea. With the new drivers the 8800gts 512 would probably be 50fps+ if it was on the lower chart.

8800gts5122.png

9600gt2.png

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ok let me ask you this guys this much what is more important atm and will be for the next oh i would half to say 6 months would it be the Memory Clock or the Core Clock?

and forth more which does what?

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Both are important. The $500+ cards have a slightly higher memory bus seperate from the clock speed. They are 320bit instead of 256bit. This helps in intense applications like multi pass filtering for great quality graphics at high resolutions. Eventually higher clock speeds on memory and core can overcome a card with lower clock speeds and more memory bandwidth. This is how the 500mhz 8800gtx competes with 8800gt's running 700mhz. It has more bandwidth.

The memory and GPU core have to be able to talk to each other very quickly. Clock speed can help this but memory bus bandwidth is a little known stat that makes a big difference as well.

The video card is a mini computer by itself. Think of the GPU or core just like your computer's processor and the vram as your system ram. An increase of only 1 over the other isn't going to help. They both need to increase to increase performance significantly or one will bottleneck the other.

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I dug up pictures of the Zalman branded and MSI version of this card. The cooler is the same minus the shroud.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127329

msi8800gt.jpg

msi-8800gt.jpg

I think that card is the best deal right now. You won't be missing much at all compared to the $500 8800gtx and it comes with a nice aftermarket cooler at no extra cost. It comes factory overclocked so you get another 5-10% on the other 8800gt's that cost the same or more.

Spending twice as much for 10% better performance with a gtx is foolish. Spending $10-20 less for a 9600gt and sacraficing 10-20% performance is also foolish IMO. This card really hits the sweet spot for me.

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ahhh now i know why you get all trigger happy about stuff like this sir is there anything better then this atm on the market?

i want the best of the best and i knew when embarking on this journey that it was not going to be no walk in the park.

and i had a feeling it was going to cost me more then 1 grand if i wanted the best of the best for a really top of the line or close to top of the line gaming system.

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This is the best single video card you can get today. I do recommend just going with a single card. It will be less buggy and a single costs less. You aren't missing out on much not having 2 video cards really. If you go ati get in intel x38 chipset MB from Asus or whoever you choose instead of an nvidia 780i.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814129103

3870x2.jpg

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This is the best single video card you can get today. I do recommend just going with a single card. It will be less buggy and a single costs less. You aren't missing out on much not having 2 video cards really. If you go ati get in intel x38 chipset MB from Asus or whoever you choose instead of an nvidia 780i.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814129103

3870x2.jpg

I can vouch for that! I'm having so much fun with that card! :D

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ok let me ask you this guys this much what is more important atm and will be for the next oh i would half to say 6 months would it be the Memory Clock or the Core Clock?

and forth more which does what?

That doesn't matter as much as you think it does.

A better measurement IMO, is how many shader units/stream processors the card has.

The 8800GTS 512mb has 128, the 8800GT has 112, the 9600GT has 64.

As an example, to help you understand this, the 9600GT's core clock is 650mhz; the 8800 Ultra's (Nvidia's most expensive, flagship gpu) core clock is 612mhz. The 9600GT also has the same memory clock at stock speed as the 8800GTX.

Yet the 8800 Ultra and the 8800GTX are much "faster" than the 9600GT. The 9600GT is just more efficient and generates less heat, so it's able to do a lot with its 64 stream processors, but it's still not as good as an 8800 Ultra. Not even really close.

ahhh now i know why you get all trigger happy about stuff like this sir is there anything better then this atm on the market?

i want the best of the best and i knew when embarking on this journey that it was not going to be no walk in the park.

and i had a feeling it was going to cost me more then 1 grand if i wanted the best of the best for a really top of the line or close to top of the line gaming system.

HD3870X2 is indeed the "best of the best" at this very moment (in *most* situations), but like I said earlier, the 9800GTX and 9800GX2 are both coming out within days. Now supposedly the word is they could be out as soon as March 4th. If you want "the best of the best", it would be worth it to wait and see how the new 9800s do in benchmarks.

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I'll hook you up with some links.

CPU: e8400 core2duo $255 I can't believe I found one.

http://www.mwave.com/mwave/viewspec.hmx?scriteria=BA24732

CPU cooler: Tuniq tower 120mm $39

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835154001

Ram: 4 gig kit Gskill latency 4 ddr800 $94

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231148

MB: Gigabyte GA EX38 DS4 $207

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128089

PSU:Corsair HX 620 $169

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139002

Video: Visiontek HD 3870 X2 1gig $440

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814129103

Sound: Creative Xfi platinum fataility series $179

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16829102014

HD: Western Digital 640gig sata 3.0 16meg cache internal. $130

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136218

DVD: Lite On 20x dvd burner SATA $33

internal memory card reader: $8

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820609198

Case: Gigabyte 3d aurora full tower $120

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811233002

Keyboard: Saitek backlite $40

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823175103

Mouse: Razer Diamondback 3G gaming mouse $39

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826153013

Joystick: Saitek X52 $165

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826102004

OS: XP home $89

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116056

or vista 64 home premium $110

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116204

For all that impressiveness I get just a shade over $2000, joystick and gaming mouse included.

Throw in one of these 28" monitors and you're probably at $2600 or so after shipping.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824254026

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The best way to buy a PC is to realise its 'disposable', its not going to last more that 3 years if you are gaming. So what I do is try and hit the 'sweet spot' on performance vs cost.

Some people will spend 4K on a PC every 2-3 years because they can, But if you can't afford to splash out 4K every 2-3 years (like most of us) then you need to shop smart.

There's a price vs performance curve on almost every PC component. For example you could by the best for 500 Dollars, or buy something thats 85% as good for 250 Dollars.

What I do is budget how much I can afford to spend on a PC every 3 years. At the moment I seem to be in the 1500-2000 price bracket (depends how much of a tax rebate I get .....heh). So what you need to do is think about how much you are willing to 'drop' every 3 years on a PC (my 3 year old PCs end up being given away).

THAT will give you your answer.......once you have a budget every 3 years, then shopping for the parts is easy.

....trying to build a PC to last forever (well as long as you can make it) is extremely expensive, and somehow never quite works out as long as you planned (I speak from experence here)

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The best way to buy a PC is to realise its 'disposable', its not going to last more that 3 years if you are gaming. So what I do is try and hit the 'sweet spot' on performance vs cost.

Some people will spend 4K on a PC every 2-3 years because they can, But if you can't afford to splash out 4K every 2-3 years (like most of us) then you need to shop smart.

There's a price vs performance curve on almost every PC component. For example you could by the best for 500 Dollars, or buy something that's 85% as good for 250 Dollars.

What I do is budget how much I can afford to spend on a PC every 3 years. At the moment I seem to be in the 1500-2000 price bracket (depends how much of a tax rebate I get .....heh). So what you need to do is think about how much you are willing to 'drop' every 3 years on a PC (my 3 year old PCs end up being given away).

THAT will give you your answer.......once you have a budget every 3 years, then shopping for the parts is easy.

....trying to build a PC to last forever (well as long as you can make it) is extremely expensive, and somehow never quite works out as long as you planned (I speak from experience here)

yeah that is so ever true enough

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hey guys was wondering is there is panel or software that works very well to controlling the speed of case fans?

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hey guys was wondering is there is panel or software that works very well to controlling the speed of case fans?

Take your pick

http://www.tomshardware.com/2004/06/15/fighting_fan_noise_pollution/

PS I'd take a good look at Layzboys shopping list, thats a loot of 'oomph' for 2000 dollars, and 'hmmmm........... 28" monitor'. That leaves you with 1400 dollars from your original shopping budget to go out and celebrate with :D

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hey guys was wondering is there is panel or software that works very well to controlling the speed of case fans?

You can buy an aftermarket speed controler for a few bucks for most fans. If they are plugged into the MB sometimes you can control them through software programs like speedfan and rivatuner.

I like the stand alone speed controllers myself. They allow you to remove the fan power draw from the MB and plug it directly into the PSU, but still control the rpm's.

Too late on my list. They're out of e8400's again.... DOH! That's the processor I'd be looking for. Supposedly they are hanging back on a full release of the e8000 series. Intel is trying to get rid of the stock of conroe core cpu's before they flood the market with 45nm cpu's. If you look hard you can still find an e8400 though you may have to go to a different store for your cpu than the rest of your parts.

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You can buy an aftermarket speed controler for a few bucks for most fans. If they are plugged into the MB sometimes you can control them through software programs like speedfan and rivatuner.

I like the stand alone speed controllers myself. They allow you to remove the fan power draw from the MB and plug it directly into the PSU, but still control the rpm's.

Too late on my list. They're out of e8400's again.... DOH! That's the processor I'd be looking for. Supposedly they are hanging back on a full release of the e8000 series. Intel is trying to get rid of the stock of conroe core cpu's before they flood the market with 45nm cpu's. If you look hard you can still find an e8400 though you may have to go to a different store for your cpu than the rest of your parts.

lazy any top of the line ones you would recommend i should get?

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lazy any top of the line ones you would recommend i should get?

Look at the link I gave you, all those are 'stand alone' fan controllers. I've always bought the molex converters and plugged straight from PSU and never plugged any case fans into the MB when I'm not using a fan controller (case fans running off MB = BAD).

They all have their own advantages/disadvantges. I've used the Alasa in my last PC because I wanted to control 4 case fans. But NEVER use a manual speed controller on the CPU, you may lose the plot and burn out your processor (or have a young 'un who likes to play with you shiny new PC buttons). So you pick what you need.

There's no absolute answer, for example how many case fans will you be using?

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Look at the link I gave you, all those are 'stand alone' fan controllers. I've always bought the molex converters and plugged straight from PSU and never plugged any case fans into the MB when I'm not using a fan controller (case fans running off MB = BAD).

They all have their own advantages/disadvantges. I've used the Alasa in my last PC because I wanted to control 4 case fans. But NEVER use a manual speed controller on the CPU, you may lose the plot and burn out your processor (or have a young 'un who likes to play with you shiny new PC buttons). So you pick what you need.

There's no absolute answer, for example how many case fans will you be using?

13 of them from what this case i am seeing there is 3 in the front 4 on both sides 1 on the top and 1 in the back

here is linkage for the case

http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?item=N82E16811119139

yes i know there may be better ones but this is perfect for what am planing to have for a gaming system this would be the ideal choice for me

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13 of them from what this case i am seeing there is 3 in the front 4 on both sides 1 on the top and 1 in the back

here is linkage for the case

http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?item=N82E16811119139

yes i know there may be better ones but this is perfect for what am planing to have for a gaming system this would be the ideal choice for me

With the PSU it's not a bad deal at all. Nice.

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well that's the thing lazy i had no ideal this thing was here that was until one of my other Buddy's said he has the case i asked him how good it was and he said its one of the best case he has ever used.

it may be some 500 something bucks but for what this thing can do it does look like its well worth it read the reviews and its 100% all the way across the board.

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It's at least $200+ for a PSU like that and it's $150 or so for a nice case so I'd say it's right in the ballpark. It would be nice if it was a little bit cheaper but it's not bad. Do you really need 1000watt PSU? I think not. Bigger won't hurt, it just costs a little more for 0 performance improvement. I'm confident that the corsair hx620 can run anything on the market.

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It's at least $200+ for a PSU like that and it's $150 or so for a nice case so I'd say it's right in the ballpark. It would be nice if it was a little bit cheaper but it's not bad. Do you really need 1000watt PSU? I think not. Bigger won't hurt' date=' it just costs a little more for 0 performance improvement. I'm confident that the corsair hx620 can run anything on the market.[/quote']

Well with 13 system fans you'll probably need 1000W just to run them :D

That case is for the serious overclocker, now if you're planning to turn yourself into a tech savvy overclocker, then it does make sense. But if you are planning on just running everything nice and stable at stock speeds...then perhaps its overkill.

BTW have you seen that case running, just wondering how loud it is with all 13 fans running?

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It's at least $200+ for a PSU like that and it's $150 or so for a nice case so I'd say it's right in the ballpark. It would be nice if it was a little bit cheaper but it's not bad. Do you really need 1000watt PSU? I think not. Bigger won't hurt' date=' it just costs a little more for 0 performance improvement. I'm confident that the corsair hx620 can run anything on the market.[/quote']

yeah that's the only part that sucks about it should i also stay with my 1200 mw power supply as back up?

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Well with 13 system fans you'll probably need 1000W just to run them :D

That case is for the serious overclocker, now if you're planning to turn yourself into a tech savvy overclocker, then it does make sense. But if you are planning on just running everything nice and stable at stock speeds...then perhaps its overkill.

BTW have you seen that case running, just wondering how loud it is with all 13 fans running?

well i am going to see how well it does at stock speeds and then i will over clock it some yeah i can just get an ideal how loud its going to get but that's ok i am use to white noise anyways

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