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Jimato

Intel or AMD Computer system

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I've priced two system for around $850. most components are

the same but processer and mobo are different.

Which is better for this game and gaming in general?

It there a better system I could more bang for my bucks"

I also have XP Pro I was going to use for system.

$850.00 (before all applicable rebates)

CASE: ($10 off Mail-in Rebate) Sigma Gaming LaVie Med-Tower Case w/ Window And Leather Trim Front Panel 420 Watts Power Supply

CPU: (Sckt775)Intel® Core™ 2 Duo E6750 CPU @ 2.66GHz 1333FSB 4MB L2 Cache 64-bit

MOTHERBOARD: MSI G31M-F Intel G31 Chipset LGA775 FSB1333 DDR2 Mainboard

MEMORY: (Req.DDR2 MainBoard)2GB (2x1GB) PC6400 DDR2/800 Dual Channel Memory (Corsair XMS2 Xtreme Memory w/ Heat Spreader)

VIDEO CARD: NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT 512MB 16X PCI Express (Major Brand Powered by NVIDIA)

VIDEO CARD 2: NONE

VIDEO CARD 3: NONE

LCD Monitor: NONE

HARD DRIVE: Single Hard Drive (80GB SATA-II 3.0Gb/s 8MB Cache 7200RPM HDD)

Data Hard Drive: NONE

Optical Drive: (Special Price) 20X DVD±R/±RW + CD-R/RW DRIVE DUAL LAYER (BLACK COLOR)

Optical Drive 2: NONE

SOUND: 3D WAVE ON-BOARD 5.1 SOUND CARD

_________________________________________________________

$834.00 (before all applicable rebates)

CASE: ($10 off Mail-in Rebate) Sigma Gaming LaVie Med-Tower Case w/ Window And Leather Trim Front Panel 420 Watts Power Supply

CPU: AMD Athlon™64 X2 6400+ Black Edition Dual-Core CPU w/ HyperTransport Technology

MOTHERBOARD: Asus M2A-VM AMD 690G Chipset DDR2/800 SATA RAID PCI-Express MBoard w/Radeon X1250 Graphic, GbLAN, USB2.0, & 7.1Audio

MEMORY: (Req.DDR2 MainBoard)2GB (2x1GB) PC6400 DDR2/800 Dual Channel Memory (Corsair XMS2 Xtreme Memory w/ Heat Spreader)

VIDEO CARD: NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT 512MB 16X PCI Express (EVGA Powered by NVIDIA)

VIDEO CARD 2: NONE

LCD Monitor: NONE

HARD DRIVE: Single Hard Drive (80GB SATA-II 3.0Gb/s 8MB Cache 7200RPM HDD)

Data Hard Drive: NONE

Optical Drive: (Special Price) 20X DVD±R/±RW + CD-R/RW DRIVE DUAL LAYER (BLACK COLOR)

Optical Drive 2: NONE

SOUND: HIGH DEFINITION ON-BOARD 7.1 AUDIO

This is a cyperpowerpc.com system...

How much could I save by getting the components myself and building either of these systems.

Thanks !!

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I have personally had great success with the Asus/AMD combo.

Currently running:

A8N-SLI SE

AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 4200+

System work great with the game.

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This is pretty simple:

All you have to do is check out this website and compare the two CPUs in a wide variety of benchmarks and see the differences for yourself.

http://www23.tomshardware.com/cpu_2007.html

If you don't trust Tom's Hardware, you can google the two CPUs and check benchmark comparisons at plenty of other sites.

The 6400+ and E6750 are close, but the E6750 has the better performance, particularly in gaming.

As a general rule, Intel's Core 2 Duos have more operations per clock (meaning better performance clock-for-clock), use less energy, run cooler, and overclock better than AMD's aging Athlon 64 X2 cpus.

It's not a coincidence that the top ten CPUs in virtually every single benchmark at the Tom's Hardware chart are Core 2's. The chart is also up to date with the latest from AMD and Intel, including the Phenoms and Wolfdales.

No bias involved here, the Core 2 Duos are simply the better choice for now.

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You can safely trust in tomshardware

That site is the mother of all benchmarkings/testing sites

Great writers with great skills and knowledge

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This is pretty simple:

All you have to do is check out this website and compare the two CPUs in a wide variety of benchmarks and see the differences for yourself.

http://www23.tomshardware.com/cpu_2007.html

If you don't trust Tom's Hardware, you can google the two CPUs and check benchmark comparisons at plenty of other sites.

The 6400+ and E6750 are close, but the E6750 has the better performance, particularly in gaming.

As a general rule, Intel's Core 2 Duos have more operations per clock (meaning better performance clock-for-clock), use less energy, run cooler, and overclock better than AMD's aging Athlon 64 X2 cpus.

It's not a coincidence that the top ten CPUs in virtually every single benchmark at the Tom's Hardware chart are Core 2's. The chart is also up to date with the latest from AMD and Intel, including the Phenoms and Wolfdales.

No bias involved here, the Core 2 Duos are simply the better choice for now.

The Q6600 seems to be even better then the E6860!

What the downside for the Quad processer?

S!

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As far as an upper end gaming system. AMD doesn't even compete directly with intel right now. They are 25-50% behind performance wise.

wolf.png

wolf3.png

wolf4.png

Why aren't there any AMD's on these benches? They can't perform good enough to make it on this list. The amd x2 6400 black would be right next to the Q6600 at stock speed. If you want the best you can get get right now get an intel.

Basically AMD runs a maxed out design with next to 0 overclocking headroom and the intel's regularly go 1ghz over stock speed. AMD is still selling 90nm cpu's. That's what the 6400 black edition is. Intel just put 45nm cpu's on the market. Almost half the transistor size. Way less voltage and heat output per clock.

Clock for clock core2duo compared to AMD x2, the core2duo does about 30-50% more per clock cycle. It used to be the other way around but not any more. The newest intel's are hitting 4.2ghz on air and AMD is stuck at around 3.4 when they are already doing less per clock cycle. For an AMD to compete with a core2duo running 4.2 the AMD x2 would have to hit 5ghz.

Why did I only talk about the X2 and not AMD's new chips the phenom? Well, because the X2's outperform the phenoms in games and cost less so why mention the phenoms?

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AMD all the way, intel sucks donkeys dicks, always have always will.

intel still drops the mhz of the cpu as it grows hotter because of on die thermal overload protection, as AMD went a different way and put it on the mobo, which can be turned off.

my pcs can run red hot for hours on end and never get crappy fps, the longer you run a intel the sooner you have to reboot it, even let it cool.

Intel has been ripping you all of for years as AMD has provided bang for buck from day 1.

dont support them

only intels worth buying are Xeons

Intel Dual core is gymic, they couldnt make a more powerfull CPU so they just added another which isnt even used.

AMD saw intel making cash from this gymic so they have gone that way to.

Take a Porshe, it gets to the shops quick, sell the porshe and buy 2 fords, they still get you to the shop but in half the time.

1 big cpu will always be faster then 2 small cpus, unless the software can command 2 cpus then thats a different story.

Your info is at lest a year out of date. Intels are now cooler running and faster by a sizable margin. They don't reduce the clock speed as they heat up either. AMD hasn't outperformed intel in any benchmarks in 2 years.

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AMD all the way, intel sucks donkeys dicks, always have always will.

intel still drops the mhz of the cpu as it grows hotter because of on die thermal overload protection, as AMD went a different way and put it on the mobo, which can be turned off.

my pcs can run red hot for hours on end and never get crappy fps, the longer you run a intel the sooner you have to reboot it, even let it cool.

Intel has been ripping you all of for years as AMD has provided bang for buck from day 1.

dont support them

only intels worth buying are Xeons

Intel Dual core is gymic, they couldnt make a more powerfull CPU so they just added another which isnt even used.

AMD saw intel making cash from this gymic so they have gone that way to.

Take a Porshe, it gets to the shops quick, sell the porshe and buy 2 fords, they still get you to the shop but in half the time.

1 big cpu will always be faster then 2 small cpus, unless the software can command 2 cpus then thats a different story.

Yep, you're behind, man.... ;)

I know you're an AMD fanboy, and AMD absolutely did have the better CPUs a few years back. They utterly embarrassed the Pentium 4s when it came to gaming.

But times change and now Intel's Core 2 series are the choice of enthusiasts. Look through reviews from any major PC enthusiast website over the past two years.... Not a fanboy thing, just the cold hard truth. :(

You also need to get up to date on dual-core technology too. :P

AMD is still selling 90nm cpu's. That's what the 6400 black edition is. Intel just put 45nm cpu's on the market. Almost half the transistor size. Way less voltage and heat output per clock.

Exactly right. I don't think Mccalin realizes that....

AMD is still working with a technology that's essentially years old and at the end of its lifespan; they're pushing it as hard as they can but they're honestly at the limit.

Intel's 65nm Core 2 Duos first came out in 2006; AMD responded by slashing prices drastically. In 2007 they pushed raw speed on their existing 90nm architecture in a vain attempt to gain on performance. AMD released the 65nm Phenom cpus, but they did so at around the time Intel was releasing its 45nm Wolfdales; not only that, the Phenoms proved to be a total flop performance-wise.

After steadily building a reputation among enthusiasts as the CPU of choice, AMD's status was utterly destroyed once benchmarks starting leaking for the Core 2 Duos; ever since then, AMD's fumbled the ball and been one step behind. The last two years have been a colossal disaster for AMD. Nobody denies that. It's a tough market.

We'll have to wait and see what AMD's 45nm CPUs are like later this year, but until then nobody but the most deluded of fanboys can claim that AMD makes the "better" CPUs.

AMD is now the "budget choice"; they're decent CPUs that sell cheap, a good option if you're on a budget.

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If you already have an AM2 socket AMD setup and are looking for a new cpu than the X2 6400 black is a great buy. I've recommended and installed them for must be AMD buddies.

If you're starting from scratch go intel. They just have the better cpu's right now.

On a little side note, if you get an X2 6400 black at newegg it doesn't come with a cpu cooler even on the retail version. I ordered an aftermarket one for the 6400 black retail that I purchased so it was no big deal when I opened the box and found no cooler, but I could see it disappointing someone sometime. I've never previously seen a retail version of a cpu with no cooler. Only OEM and whitebox versions had no cooler as far as I knew before.

If you order the parts yourself read the fine print.

It really seems like those cyberpower pc's are some of the best deals available for an already put together system. They sure beat dell IMO price/performance.

I bet you wouldn't be able to save much building the same machine. $100-200 at most if you ordered comparable parts yourself.

I still would custom build it. You have a huge selection on what to buy you can get exactly what you want. It's so much easier than most people imagine. All it takes is a basic understanding of electronics and computers, a steady hand, a willingness to learn, some spare cash, and a little time.

You can answer about any question you might come to on the course of the build with a quick internet search.

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all though me mr lazy and mr xan has been around and around and around this from time in time out and you have my huge thxs from you both you guys are the damn best and god bless your souls or what ever god you worship this is my choice of what i want to have for my next system

this may be more money then anyone can count but i feel it is to powerful for its own good which i consider a very good thing

http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?item=N82E16819115034

and if your going to go with that you want a case something like this

http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?item=N82E16811119139

this case is huge and it can fit from what i counted up to 13 120 mm fans

well that's my 2 cents

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($10 off Mail-in Rebate) Sigma Gaming LaVie Med-Tower Case w/ Window And Leather Trim Front Panel] 420 Watts Power Supply

_________________________________________________________

Thanks !!

So while y'all have been busting chops over the cpu. I don't think any took the time to look at the guys set-up.

Well buddy You should either Send a E-mail requestings the specs on the power supply or add a better one to the mix. something tells me that a 420W power supply isn't going to run that uber graphics card and everything else your throwing into the mix.

i think in todays market you should be looking more at 500-600W peak and at least 20A on one +12v rail.

as far as cpu's go. you know the intels are faster. but the AMD's are cheaper. so for the price of the intel you can get a fast (enough) AMD and some scrilla for an extra 1024MB stick or two.

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I don't like the size of it. 420watts sounds a little small for todays standards, but it's a pre-built system. Of course it will run with what it has or they couldn't get it running to send it out the door. I'd worry in later upgrades it wasn't big enough though, good call.

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I don't like the size of it. 420watts sounds a little small for todays standards' date=' but it's a pre-built system. Of course it will run with what it has or they couldn't get it running to send it out the door. I'd worry in later upgrades it wasn't big enough though, good call.[/quote']

90% of the time they mean.. it turns on and runs windows. not plays Counter Strike for 8 hours straight in a 80 degree room.

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So while y'all have been busting chops over the cpu. I don't think any took the time to look at the guys set-up.

Well buddy You should either Send a E-mail requestings the specs on the power supply or add a better one to the mix. something tells me that a 420W power supply isn't going to run that uber graphics card and everything else your throwing into the mix.

i think in todays market you should be looking more at 500-600W peak and at least 20A on one +12v rail.

as far as cpu's go. you know the intels are faster. but the AMD's are cheaper. so for the price of the intel you can get a fast (enough) AMD and some scrilla for an extra 1024MB stick or two.

Comes with the case guys! I have a 650 watt BFG I will swap with

the one it comes with if I go that route...

I didn't intend on using that power supply for this computer!

S!

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If you already have an AM2 socket AMD setup and are looking for a new cpu than the X2 6400 black is a great buy. I've recommended and installed them for must be AMD buddies.

If you're starting from scratch go intel. They just have the better cpu's right now.

On a little side note, if you get an X2 6400 black at newegg it doesn't come with a cpu cooler even on the retail version. I ordered an aftermarket one for the 6400 black retail that I purchased so it was no big deal when I opened the box and found no cooler, but I could see it disappointing someone sometime. I've never previously seen a retail version of a cpu with no cooler. Only OEM and whitebox versions had no cooler as far as I knew before.

If you order the parts yourself read the fine print.

It really seems like those cyberpower pc's are some of the best deals available for an already put together system. They sure beat dell IMO price/performance.

I bet you wouldn't be able to save much building the same machine. $100-200 at most if you ordered comparable parts yourself.

I still would custom build it. You have a huge selection on what to buy you can get exactly what you want. It's so much easier than most people imagine. All it takes is a basic understanding of electronics and computers, a steady hand, a willingness to learn, some spare cash, and a little time.

You can answer about any question you might come to on the course of the build with a quick internet search.

Good advice, thanks!

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As far as an upper end gaming system. AMD doesn't even compete directly with intel right now. They are 25-50% behind performance wise.

wolf.png

wolf3.png

wolf4.png

Why aren't there any AMD's on these benches? They can't perform good enough to make it on this list. The amd x2 6400 black would be right next to the Q6600 at stock speed. If you want the best you can get get right now get an intel.

Basically AMD runs a maxed out design with next to 0 overclocking headroom and the intel's regularly go 1ghz over stock speed. AMD is still selling 90nm cpu's. That's what the 6400 black edition is. Intel just put 45nm cpu's on the market. Almost half the transistor size. Way less voltage and heat output per clock.

Clock for clock core2duo compared to AMD x2, the core2duo does about 30-50% more per clock cycle. It used to be the other way around but not any more. The newest intel's are hitting 4.2ghz on air and AMD is stuck at around 3.4 when they are already doing less per clock cycle. For an AMD to compete with a core2duo running 4.2 the AMD x2 would have to hit 5ghz.

Why did I only talk about the X2 and not AMD's new chips the phenom? Well, because the X2's outperform the phenoms in games and cost less so why mention the phenoms?

The Wolfdale E8500 looks like it kicks ***. Got a good source

for getting one? Looks like I'm gonna go the "build my own"

route, not so much for the money but to be able to select what

I see as being best for the money!

thanks for this info!

S!

S!

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Comes with the case guys! I have a 650 watt BFG I will swap with

the one it comes with if I go that route...

I didn't intend on using that power supply for this computer!

S!

phew

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The Wolfdale E8500 looks like it kicks ***. Got a good source

for getting one? Looks like I'm gonna go the "build my own"

route, not so much for the money but to be able to select what

I see as being best for the money!

thanks for this info!

S!

S!

The wolfdale's are semi hard to find. Newegg hasn't been able to keep them in stock hardly at all. They are the new 45nm replacement for the conroe core. Intel hasn't yet fully released production of the wolfdale so they can try to sell the last of the 65nm conroes like the e6750.

When I saw the first e8400 hit the market it was selling for $209 now it's up to $250 some places.

I found you an e8400 for $209 with shopzilla.

http://www.onsale.com/shop/detail.aspx?dpno=7369654&store=onsale&source=BWBBIZRATE&srccode=cii_10043468&cpncode=08-49706884-2&wt.mc_id=BWBBIZRATE

Or here for $224

http://www.macmall.com/macmall/shop/detail.asp?dpno=7369654&Redir=1&description=Intel-E8400%20LGA775%203.00G%206MB%201333MHZ-Boxed%20Processors

In the next few months new models of 45nm e8000 series processors will flood the market. This is the new processor to have. The e8000 series has been hitting over 4ghz with air cooling consistantly.

A core2duo running at 4ghz can't be beaten in gaming performance. Even the $1000 new quad cores can't hang. It's about the best you can do right now.

I know those links are not the usual stores but all the popular computer stores online are all sold out of wolfdale core intels. They are the holy grail of overclocking right now. Nothing else is coming close.

I would demand to build with a wolfdale right now if I was building a machine for myself. If I couldn't find one I'd wait to build until one was available.

Here's a reasonably priced MB that has out of the box recognition of wolfdale core intels.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128083

Remember. Dual slot boards with intel chipsets don't support SLI, only crossfire for ATI. No biggie just run a single video card. The 8800gt is a good choice. There's 2 separate raid controllers for the hard drives built into the board too. You can run a raid 0 for your OS and another raid0 for your storage if you like.

from the reviews of the MB

This board was easy to setup and reasonably-well documented. Everything has worked fine, even the overclocking tests I have run. I had a E8400 up to 4.0G with no significant effort.

This is the exact MB that tomshardware used to push the wolfdale in the benches to 4.2ghz.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128326

Get yourself a good CPU cooler.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835887011

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This is what im getting towards the end of the month "providing everything goes well" and in my sig you can see what i am using now.

MB= http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188024

CPU= http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115017

Ram 8gigs = http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148070 2x2 version is gone off of here but you get the idea.

GPU= http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814261006

Then eventually 4x150 raptors

This all goes into an Antec 900 case "that i have now" the sound card and psu will still be with it as well.

Other than an eventual video card upgrade or see what happens at the end of the month with the 9800's this should hold me for a few years.

Oh and the reason for the upgrade is for the newer games id like to play that are coming down the pike. My present setup works just fine for this game as it sits.

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The wolfdale's are semi hard to find. Newegg hasn't been able to keep them in stock hardly at all. They are the new 45nm replacement for the conroe core. Intel hasn't yet fully released production of the wolfdale so they can try to sell the last of the 65nm conroes like the e6750.

When I saw the first e8400 hit the market it was selling for $209 now it's up to $250 some places.

I found you an e8400 for $209 with shopzilla.

http://www.onsale.com/shop/detail.aspx?dpno=7369654&store=onsale&source=BWBBIZRATE&srccode=cii_10043468&cpncode=08-49706884-2&wt.mc_id=BWBBIZRATE

Or here for $224

http://www.macmall.com/macmall/shop/detail.asp?dpno=7369654&Redir=1&description=Intel-E8400%20LGA775%203.00G%206MB%201333MHZ-Boxed%20Processors

In the next few months new models of 45nm e8000 series processors will flood the market. This is the new processor to have. The e8000 series has been hitting over 4ghz with air cooling consistantly.

A core2duo running at 4ghz can't be beaten in gaming performance. Even the $1000 new quad cores can't hang. It's about the best you can do right now.

I know those links are not the usual stores but all the popular computer stores online are all sold out of wolfdale core intels. They are the holy grail of overclocking right now. Nothing else is coming close.

I would demand to build with a wolfdale right now if I was building a machine for myself. If I couldn't find one I'd wait to build until one was available.

Here's a reasonably priced MB that has out of the box recognition of wolfdale core intels.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128083

Remember. Dual slot boards with intel chipsets don't support SLI, only crossfire for ATI. No biggie just run a single video card. The 8800gt is a good choice. There's 2 separate raid controllers for the hard drives built into the board too. You can run a raid 0 for your OS and another raid0 for your storage if you like.

from the reviews of the MB

This is the exact MB that tomshardware used to push the wolfdale in the benches to 4.2ghz.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128326

Get yourself a good CPU cooler.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835887011

wow, its a damn good thing i read this didn't really pay attention that the wolves came out. Thank ya.

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The wolfdale's are semi hard to find. Newegg hasn't been able to keep them in stock hardly at all. They are the new 45nm replacement for the conroe core. Intel hasn't yet fully released production of the wolfdale so they can try to sell the last of the 65nm conroes like the e6750.

When I saw the first e8400 hit the market it was selling for $209 now it's up to $250 some places.

I found you an e8400 for $209 with shopzilla.

http://www.onsale.com/shop/detail.aspx?dpno=7369654&store=onsale&source=BWBBIZRATE&srccode=cii_10043468&cpncode=08-49706884-2&wt.mc_id=BWBBIZRATE

Or here for $224

http://www.macmall.com/macmall/shop/detail.asp?dpno=7369654&Redir=1&description=Intel-E8400%20LGA775%203.00G%206MB%201333MHZ-Boxed%20Processors

In the next few months new models of 45nm e8000 series processors will flood the market. This is the new processor to have. The e8000 series has been hitting over 4ghz with air cooling consistantly.

A core2duo running at 4ghz can't be beaten in gaming performance. Even the $1000 new quad cores can't hang. It's about the best you can do right now.

I know those links are not the usual stores but all the popular computer stores online are all sold out of wolfdale core intels. They are the holy grail of overclocking right now. Nothing else is coming close.

I would demand to build with a wolfdale right now if I was building a machine for myself. If I couldn't find one I'd wait to build until one was available.

Here's a reasonably priced MB that has out of the box recognition of wolfdale core intels.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128083

Remember. Dual slot boards with intel chipsets don't support SLI, only crossfire for ATI. No biggie just run a single video card. The 8800gt is a good choice. There's 2 separate raid controllers for the hard drives built into the board too. You can run a raid 0 for your OS and another raid0 for your storage if you like.

from the reviews of the MB

This is the exact MB that tomshardware used to push the wolfdale in the benches to 4.2ghz.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128326

Get yourself a good CPU cooler.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835887011

Once again Lazyboy > you rock!

Thanks for the info dude!

I can afford to wait to build my system, especially if I am waiting

to get this E8500 processer! It'll be Rock City!!! :)

S!

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CPUz_4401.png

The e8400 is just as good and it's about $75 less than the e8500's I've seen. Here's one hitting 4.4ghz.

The e8400 runs at 3.00ghz and the e8500 runs at 3.16ghz. They have very similar max overclocking potential. There e8400 seems to be the easiest 45nm dual core to find in stores too. The only real difference is $75 more cost and 1 higher number multiplier to play with. 9.5 for the e8500 I believe.

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Hmm.. why wait then! :)

Overclocking as shown above I'm assuming will require a very good

fan or perhaps liquid cooling. I've been running a water cooler for my

current cpu years now and have had very good results with it!

S!

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