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panda1k

Buy Q9850 or stay Q6600

29 posts in this topic

For someone like me who purchased an HP computer and is locked out of the bios (so overclocking isn't an option) would it be worth it to buy a Q9650? The system I have now is pretty good but it's just that I fly a lot and the lag I get on the deck and over towns can get annoying.

No need to explain to me about how this game does not take advantage of quad cores but solely looking at the speed. is 2.4ghz < 3.0ghz? Would I notice any difference in game?

Thanks,

Here's my other specs

------------------

System Information

------------------

Time of this report: 1/20/2009, 18:39:49

Machine name: ******

Operating System: Windows Vista™ Home Premium (6.0, Build 6001) Service Pack 1 (6001.vistasp1_gdr.080917-1612)

Language: English (Regional Setting: English)

System Manufacturer: HP-Pavilion

System Model: KZ854AV-ABA m9300t

BIOS: BIOS Date: 10/23/08 21:39:17 Ver: 5.32

Processor: Intel® Core2 Quad CPU Q6600 @ 2.40GHz (4 CPUs), ~2.4GHz

Memory: 8190MB RAM

Page File: 2942MB used, 13292MB available

Windows Dir: C:\WINDOWS

DirectX Version: DirectX 10

DX Setup Parameters: Not found

DxDiag Version: 6.00.6001.18000 64bit Unicode

------------

DxDiag Notes

------------

Display Tab 1: No problems found.

Sound Tab 1: The file ctaud2k.sys is not digitally signed, which means that it has not been tested by Microsoft's Windows Hardware Quality Labs (WHQL). You may be able to get a WHQL logo'd driver from the hardware manufacturer.

Sound Tab 2: The file ctaud2k.sys is not digitally signed, which means that it has not been tested by Microsoft's Windows Hardware Quality Labs (WHQL). You may be able to get a WHQL logo'd driver from the hardware manufacturer.

Sound Tab 3: No problems found.

Sound Tab 4: No problems found.

Sound Tab 5: No problems found.

Input Tab: No problems found.

--------------------

DirectX Debug Levels

--------------------

Direct3D: 0/4 (retail)

DirectDraw: 0/4 (retail)

DirectInput: 0/5 (retail)

DirectMusic: 0/5 (retail)

DirectPlay: 0/9 (retail)

DirectSound: 0/5 (retail)

DirectShow: 0/6 (retail)

---------------

Display Devices

---------------

Card name: ATI Radeon HD 4800 Series

Manufacturer: ATI Technologies Inc.

Chip type: ATI Radeon Graphics Processor (0x9442)

DAC type: Internal DAC(400MHz)

Device Key: Enum\PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_9442&SUBSYS_024E1043&REV_00

Display Memory: 3571 MB

Dedicated Memory: 503 MB

Shared Memory: 3067 MB

Current Mode: 1920 x 1200 (32 bit) (60Hz)

Monitor: Acer P241W

Driver Name: atidxx32,atidxx64.dll,atiumdag,atiumdva,atiumd64.dll,atiumd6a.cap,atitmm64.dll

Driver Version: 7.15.0010.0163 (English)

DDI Version: 10.1

Driver Attributes: Final Retail

Driver Date/Size: 12/1/2008 15:35:27, 2340352 bytes

WHQL Logo'd: Yes

WHQL Date Stamp:

Device Identifier: {D7B71EE2-D702-11CF-8571-4422A1C2CA35}

Vendor ID: 0x1002

Device ID: 0x9442

SubSys ID: 0x024E1043

Revision ID: 0x0000

Revision ID: 0x0000

Video Accel: ModeMPEG2_A ModeMPEG2_C

Deinterlace Caps: {6E8329FF-B642-418B-BCF0-BCB6591E255F}: Format(In/Out)=(YUY2,YUY2) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,1) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY DeinterlaceTech_PixelAdaptive

{335AA36E-7884-43A4-9C91-7F87FAF3E37E}: Format(In/Out)=(YUY2,YUY2) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY DeinterlaceTech_BOBVerticalStretch

{5A54A0C9-C7EC-4BD9-8EDE-F3C75DC4393B}: Format(In/Out)=(YUY2,YUY2) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY

{6E8329FF-B642-418B-BCF0-BCB6591E255F}: Format(In/Out)=(UYVY,UYVY) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,1) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY DeinterlaceTech_PixelAdaptive

{335AA36E-7884-43A4-9C91-7F87FAF3E37E}: Format(In/Out)=(UYVY,UYVY) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY DeinterlaceTech_BOBVerticalStretch

{5A54A0C9-C7EC-4BD9-8EDE-F3C75DC4393B}: Format(In/Out)=(UYVY,UYVY) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY

{3C5323C1-6FB7-44F5-9081-056BF2EE449D}: Format(In/Out)=(NV12,0x3231564e) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,2) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY DeinterlaceTech_PixelAdaptive

{552C0DAD-CCBC-420B-83C8-74943CF9F1A6}: Format(In/Out)=(NV12,0x3231564e) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,2) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY DeinterlaceTech_PixelAdaptive

{6E8329FF-B642-418B-BCF0-BCB6591E255F}: Format(In/Out)=(NV12,0x3231564e) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,1) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY DeinterlaceTech_PixelAdaptive

{335AA36E-7884-43A4-9C91-7F87FAF3E37E}: Format(In/Out)=(NV12,0x3231564e) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY DeinterlaceTech_BOBVerticalStretch

{5A54A0C9-C7EC-4BD9-8EDE-F3C75DC4393B}: Format(In/Out)=(NV12,0x3231564e) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY

DDraw Status: Enabled

D3D Status: Enabled

AGP Status: Enabled

-------------

Sound Devices

-------------

Description: Speakers (Creative SB X-Fi)

Default Sound Playback: Yes

Default Voice Playback: Yes

Hardware ID: PCI\VEN_1102&DEV_0005&SUBSYS_00311102&REV_00

Manufacturer ID: 1

Product ID: 100

Type: WDM

Driver Name: ctaud2k.sys

Driver Version: 6.00.0001.1368 (English)

Driver Attributes: Final Retail

WHQL Logo'd: No

Date and Size: 10/8/2008 01:22:22, 684312 bytes

Other Files:

Driver Provider: Creative

HW Accel Level: Basic

Cap Flags: 0xF1F

Min/Max Sample Rate: 100, 200000

Static/Strm HW Mix Bufs: 1, 0

Static/Strm HW 3D Bufs: 0, 0

HW Memory: 0

Voice Management: No

EAX 2.0 Listen/Src: No, No

I3DL2 Listen/Src: No, No

Sensaura ZoomFX: No

Description: SPDIF Out (Creative SB X-Fi)

Default Sound Playback: No

Default Voice Playback: No

Hardware ID: PCI\VEN_1102&DEV_0005&SUBSYS_00311102&REV_00

Manufacturer ID: 1

Product ID: 100

Type: WDM

Driver Name: ctaud2k.sys

Driver Version: 6.00.0001.1368 (English)

Driver Attributes: Final Retail

WHQL Logo'd: No

Date and Size: 10/8/2008 01:22:22, 684312 bytes

Other Files:

Driver Provider: Creative

HW Accel Level: Basic

Cap Flags: 0xF1F

Min/Max Sample Rate: 100, 200000

Static/Strm HW Mix Bufs: 1, 0

Static/Strm HW 3D Bufs: 0, 0

HW Memory: 0

Voice Management: No

EAX 2.0 Listen/Src: No, No

I3DL2 Listen/Src: No, No

Sensaura ZoomFX: No

Description: Digital Output Device (HDMI) (High Definition Audio Device)

Default Sound Playback: No

Default Voice Playback: No

Hardware ID: HDAUDIO\FUNC_01&VEN_1002&DEV_AA01&SUBSYS_00AA0100&REV_1001

Manufacturer ID: 1

Product ID: 100

Type: WDM

Driver Name: HdAudio.sys

Driver Version: 6.00.5840.16387 (English)

Driver Attributes: Final Retail

WHQL Logo'd: Yes

Date and Size: 11/2/2006 00:28:10, 273920 bytes

Other Files:

Driver Provider: Microsoft

HW Accel Level: Basic

Cap Flags: 0xF1F

Min/Max Sample Rate: 100, 200000

Static/Strm HW Mix Bufs: 1, 0

Static/Strm HW 3D Bufs: 0, 0

HW Memory: 0

Voice Management: No

EAX 2.0 Listen/Src: No, No

I3DL2 Listen/Src: No, No

Sensaura ZoomFX: No

Description: Speakers (3- USB Audio Device)

Default Sound Playback: No

Default Voice Playback: No

Hardware ID: USB\VID_047F&PID_C001&REV_0100&MI_00

Manufacturer ID: 65535

Product ID: 65535

Type: WDM

Driver Name: USBAUDIO.sys

Driver Version: 6.00.6001.18000 (English)

Driver Attributes: Final Retail

WHQL Logo'd: Yes

Date and Size: 1/20/2008 21:47:04, 98816 bytes

Other Files:

Driver Provider: Microsoft

HW Accel Level: Basic

Cap Flags: 0xF1F

Min/Max Sample Rate: 100, 200000

Static/Strm HW Mix Bufs: 1, 0

Static/Strm HW 3D Bufs: 0, 0

HW Memory: 0

Voice Management: No

EAX 2.0 Listen/Src: No, No

I3DL2 Listen/Src: No, No

Sensaura ZoomFX: No

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For someone like me who purchased an HP computer and is locked out of the bios (so overclocking isn't an option) would it be worth it to buy a Q9650? The system I have now is pretty good but it's just that I fly a lot and the lag I get on the deck and over towns can get annoying.

No need to explain to me about how this game does not take advantage of quad cores but solely looking at the speed. is 2.4ghz < 3.0ghz? Would I notice any difference in game?

Thanks,

It is not going to help you with the stutters over town.

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Is it possible to flash the bios so that you have a standard one for that MB instead of the HP non-overclocking bios?

Don't get too excited until you find out if it's possible. I know it is sometimes but sometimes HP and dell have unique MB's built for them that will only run their bios. It is an idea though.

Are you sure you can't get into the bios? HP has to have a way. You might be locked from overclocking but you should be able to get into your bios.

Clock speed is still king as far as gaming goes. If anyone disagrees just show me the benchmarks where the significantly slower quad cores outperform dual cores that run faster clocks. A dual core at 3ghz will totally outperform a quad at 2.4 in ww2ol, no question. If I were you and I had the money, I would probably grab a core2duo e8600. They run 3.33 and aren't that expensive.

wolf3.png

wolf.png

What if instead of getting a new cpu you grabbed a cheap MB like the Asus p5Qpro and just tried to see what your Q6600 can do? Most of them can hit 3ghz. That would probably be way cheaper than upgrading the cpu to the Q9850.

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Sorry I did word it correctly, I am able to get into bios but the part where you would change the digits is what's locked.

Changing the Mobo may be a nice idea, but I will have to match the form factor and make sure the ports line up with the case.

Edit: ah the mobo comes with a case...hmmm

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Sorry I did word it correctly, I am able to get into bios but the part where you would change the digits is what's locked.

Changing the Mobo may be a nice idea, but I will have to match the form factor and make sure the ports line up with the case.

Edit: ah the mobo comes with a case...hmmm

You have a standard ATX size MB not a miniATX right? You have a mid tower case? As long as you have a mid tower case you can fit any MB in there except extended ATX but you don't need to worry about that. Even if you have a miniATX case you can still buy a nice aftermarket board that will let you overclock. MB's come with a replacement back plate for the case so don't worry about the ports lining up.

I think getting a new board might be your best plan of action. Get an aftermarket cpu cooler while you're at it. Do a fresh reformat, get rid of HP's crap software, and overclock that cpu. You'll be styling.

I'll recommend this board. I'm running 3.8ghz stable with it on an e7200. It's one of the cheapest newer boards with dual video card slots.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131299

Throw one of these in the cart. They're so worth $20, kicks the crap out of stock. 1600 reviews at newegg alone. It's probably the most popular aftermarket cooler in the world. Mostly because of the price/performance. There is better but they are two or three times the price.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835185125

That's about $150 total, not bad when you consider the price of the cpu you where talking about buying. The 9650 is still $1000. What a waste of money. I'm outperforming any 9650 running stock speed significantly with a $119 processor and some overclocking skills.

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Alright, it looks like I will be following through with this.

CPU Fan: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835185125

Case: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129021

And Motherboard will be the one Lazy linked earlier.

I love that case. It comes with a lot more room than I have now. I can add another GFX card and HD when I need to.

I will be transferring my PSU, 8GB Ram, GFX and Sound card, IR Board, Tv Tuner to the new system.

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Ran to microcenter and picked up the P5QC Motherboard instead..I went up there because I thought I saw the pro but I was mistaken.

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I am wondering If I should send the Motherboard I purchased back, and get the the that Lazy linked.

I ask because the one he linked has 2xpci 16x slots and the one I have is only one. Not that I really plan on going crossfire but it's just mental thing the know that I can do it.

The board I purcased was $151.

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You could use it if you want. The pro is a decent overclocker. I'm not sure if the P5Qc is quite as good. I think they put slightly different NB cooling on the non pro versions.

At that price I would rather have a P5Qpro, not that it's much different or that I will use the extra video card slot but I only paid $129 for mine. You should be able to get the non pro version of the P5Q for around $99. Your price is a little high at $150 for a non pro single video slot version.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131347

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I was going to give you some step by step. It's really easy with those MB's. There's a good bios. Just watch your memory speed and raise your fsb. Once your fsb gets so high you may have to change memory speeds to keep it near the stock range.

You can add a little voltage once it gets unstable and it might go quite a bit higher but you have to watch your temps. Use the Asus smartdoctor program that comes with the MB to monitor the cpu and MB temps. Keep the cpu under 60 celcius if you can. Raising voltage raises temps fast. You can get a nice overclock generally on the stock voltage with most chips and it doesn't effect temps near as much as messing with voltage does. Overclocking without raising voltage is very safe. You will reach a wall where it won't run any higher stable. At that point you back it off until it is stable and maybe squeak in a little extra cpu voltage to guarantee you hold that stability.

I'm betting you'll peak out near 333fsb x9, about 3ghz core speed. You can lower the multiplier and go for 400fsb. Your chip will probably run it. 400fsbx7=2.8ghz, a 400mhz increase over stock on the core and a vast increase in fsb bandwidth.

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I'd just keep the cooler it looks pretty nice, way better than stock anyway. I don't think I'd bother taking it back. You could add some high quality thermal paste to your MB order. That way when you remount the cpu cooler on the new MB you'll have a little better performance.

When you buy thermal paste you get enough to mount 20+ cpu's so it will last you a while.

This is about the best stuff around. Totally worth 6$

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835100007

DDR800 ram actually runs at 400mhz. It is rated as 800 because all ddr, (D.double D.data R. rate), sends data at the top and bottom of the clock cycle. That doubles the transfer rate so for marketing purposes or whatever ddr's rated speed is twice the actual clock speed.

With 800mhz ram at stock speed I might go for a 7.5 times multiplier and 400mhz main cpu fsb clock to match the ram. That makes exactly 3ghz. You might have to bump the CPU and northbridge voltage to run that. You might have got lucky and your chip will hit 3.2. Overclocking is luck of the draw.

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Thanks I went ahead and made the order, and also threw a retention bracket in there because I hate the push-pin method.

I will give those figures a try once I get home. But I should have left the cpu voltage at default? Then edge in the volt as needed? How would I know when I would need to? BSOD's or will it just not boot?

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It will either crash during a game, crash at desktop, fail to load windows, or fail to load the bios entirely. Usually you can get back into the bios and change the settings back or add voltage. If you accidentally put in settings that fail to allow you to access the bios at all that's when you use the cmos reset jumper or switch depending on what your MB has. That will restore default bios settings and allow you to reboot if you are stuck. Then you go back into the bios and either add voltage, back off the speed from the non-bootable setting, or fix the settings change that it didn't like.

1.4v on the cpu is the accepted 24/7 air cooling limit on the 45nm core2duo's. The older 65nm chips like yours could tolerate up to 1.55v. To find your machines speed limit on the stock voltage simply raise the cpu fsb little by little until some type of instability shows up.

If you download prime95/orthos and run that as a stress test after each 3-5mhz or so speed increase you can get it to fail there first. Then add a little voltage at that same level and see if it becomes stable again. Sometimes you haven't actually reached a cpu limit and it's the northbridge that needs more voltage. I usually bump the northbridge voltage a little if I'm overclocking the cpu fsb very extensively. Watch your temps the whole time. Prime95 100% cpu load temps of 60-65 are acceptable but that is about as hot as I like to run a core2duo. Prime95 runs hotter than any game will though. WW2ol rarely uses more than 40-50% cpu load at spikes never 100% load sustained like any of the stress test programs do.

I like to run my cpu voltage a little higher than stock if I'm overclocked at all. I feel like intel purposely limits the stock voltage to allow the chips to run cool on the crappy stock cooler and to score well in thermal output tests which have become part of any good cpu review article. I think their cpu's run much more stable with a slight voltage increase if you are stretching their limits. A little is no big deal on an aftermarket heatpipe style air cooler.

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Alright I get it, here is the video I used as a guideline, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYg4bIWMa9g so I probably changed figures that didn't need to be changed since hes using a slightly different board.

Multiplier set to 7.5 with stock volt and 400fsb is where I should start. I will probably shoot for 3.2ghz.

Just keep easing up the FSB while watching temps, if it's unstable, bump up the vcore or NBVoltage until it's stable...then bump up FSB again, rinse & repeat till I hit 3.2.

Don't remember if I changed the SB voltage, I notice you didn't say anything about it. I assume because the NBridge deals with the Ram and GFX which is vital.

Thanks lazy, you've really been helpful.

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I'm currently at about 3.2Ghz. 9x355

I tried to do 7.5 but it only allow me to go up whole numbers. Even tried using +/-

First attempt for 3.1 I got a BSOD after 2 minutes on with prime.

Ran prime after 3.2ghz for about 5 minutes and everything seems ok. main core maxed to ~55c

I do notice that vista takes awhile to load applications on startup, (AV, Messenger, Sidebar)...Still fast but relatively low.

Then again it may be a placebo effect.

Edit: Something isn't right, I ran fraps while flying, fps went down to teens. Yesterday at 3.0ghz I was able to pull off ~40fps.

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I'm currently at about 3.2Ghz. 9x355

I tried to do 7.5 but it only allow me to go up whole numbers. Even tried using +/-

First attempt for 3.1 I got a BSOD after 2 minutes on with prime.

Ran prime after 3.2ghz for about 5 minutes and everything seems ok. main core maxed to ~55c

I do notice that vista takes awhile to load applications on startup, (AV, Messenger, Sidebar)...Still fast but relatively low.

Then again it may be a placebo effect.

Edit: Something isn't right, I ran fraps while flying, fps went down to teens. Yesterday at 3.0ghz I was able to pull off ~40fps.

With my quad core which is lower than yours I am getting 30 FPS with fraps on the deck when flying. It stays right at 30 or very close to it with little or no stutters. What I have done is set the affinity to core 1 and core 2. I also unchecked core 0. My FPS without fraps on stays at about 90 on the deck over a battle and at about 100-200+ fps when flying depending on the altitude I am flying at.

My system specs

Q9400 @2.66ghz

8GB of RAM

8800 GT

Vista Home Premium 64-bit

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CC, that's about right for me, but what I'm saying is going from 3.0 -> 3.2 I've done something wrong, playing without fraps recording is smooth as silk with 100-250 flying, but when i start to record it goes down to 10-15 fps.

Yesterday under the same circumstances I was 30-50 fps while recording.

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