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insight

a new infantry / mouse problem

45 posts in this topic

Just within the last couple days I've come across a new issue. When playing as inf my movement (as in turning left/right or up/down with the mouse) stutters to the point of not being able to play infantry effectively at all. It is independent of FPS (stutters happen at 50 FPS+, and down to 15 FPS and lower), and independent of the terrain complexity (it happens in big open fields with high FPS just the same as it happens in towns with lots of trees, or inside spawn building).

Oh, and YAY, as I was typing this and passively attacking a town with an 88 in a good spot, THE GAME CRASHES for the 4th or 5th time tonight.

Anyway, back to the mouse issue.

It only seems to happen with inf. When using free-look in a vehicle (plane, tank) it's still smooth as it's always been. Using the view keys (number pad) to look around is also working fine as it always has. As does the joystick hat switch.

Hardware is:

Macbook Pro 2.33 duo core, 3GB ram, ATI X1600 256MB RAM video card, 7200rpm drive

OS X 10.5.6

Mouse is a Logitech MX Revolution (wireless USB)

Joystick is Saitek x52

In the past 8 years of playing, I've never seen anything like this. Usually it's the typical FPS or CTF/CTHL problems, but nothing quirky like this.

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Ive noticed this too. It is strange because it feels like the old FPS stutter that dips to 2-3 fps but the fps counter in this case does not spike down.

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Had the same problem sometimes too. I recall it was a wireless mouse too then.

No issues with the mouse I'm using now though.

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Hmm, interesting. I was really expecting I was the only one to experience this, but was hoping for some thoughts on what it might be.

I thought it might be the mouse. But it doesn't explain why it suddenly started happening, and ONLY with infantry (like I said, using the mouse to look around in the free-look state with tanks and planes doesn't reproduce the problem).

I've got one other mouse here (crappy bluetooth mouse) that I'll try later to see if there's any difference.

I wish there was a way for me to easily record a video showing what's happening. It's definitely not FPS-related. It sort of reminds of me trying to aim with the sniper rifle in this game (how it jumps a few pixels at a time, and can't smoothly move from pixel to pixel) except on a much larger scale. Except in this case you can make it less apparent by moving the mouse a bit more slowly, but only because the turn you make as infantry is smaller, so it seems less stuttery.

And I'm not sure if this has anything to do with it, but I installed a fan control app (http://fan-control.en.softonic.com/mac) the other day, which is about when this started happening. I don't know if it's related (the problem may have started even before I installed it), but either way I uninstalled that and it didn't help. I now have smcFanControl running instead, which I've used in the past without a problem.

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Has everyone with the problem installed the Safari 4 beta? I noticed this about the time I installed that.

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I am having the same issue for 5 days now, cant fight as inf... grim... The screen stutters badly L>R R

Regards Montyuno

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I've had this off and on for a few days now.

Note: I run the game on Linux, so it's not something OS-related.

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The game hasn't changed so I have no idea what this is, maybe its a perception thing, we talk about it and now everyone thinks they see something new.

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I've not installed anything other than that Fan Control program (which was then removed and replaced with smcFanControl, which hasn't given me problems in the past) and a handful of updates (Apple's most recent Pro updates to things like Final Cut, etc, just a few days ago). I wasn't even aware Safari had a beta out, so I'm still using v3.2.1.

I'm really surprised I'm not the only one, assuming we're all talking about the same thing. I somehow doubt it's perception; everyone who has responded here has played the game long enough to recognize the difference between steady low frame rates, stutters, and poor network connections....and this issue I'm having is most definitely none of them.

Could it be the latest round of Apple updates about a week ago (I think that's when it was?) could have created some sort of issue?

I played some more tonight, but avoided inf altogether and tanked and flew instead. As usual, no problem there...

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I'm at work so I can't test it out right now, but does this problem persist offline too? I tried with and without netcode2, but it didn't seem to make a difference.

While online, the problem is much less noticeable for me the higher the FPS are, but are still the telltale jerks in the rifle's motion as you swing it around.

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I'm at work so I can't test it out right now, but does this problem persist offline too? I tried with and without netcode2, but it didn't seem to make a difference.

While online, the problem is much less noticeable for me the higher the FPS are, but are still the telltale jerks in the rifle's motion as you swing it around.

I just tested offline and the issue seems to still be there. In this slightly more controlled environment, it seems that trees *may* be either causing or exacerbating the problem. I've always had problems with trees severely effecting my FPS (especially when using binocs, etc), but this doesn't seem like your typical FPS hit, and this is most definitely NOT the same thing I'm used to seeing.

It's still reading a very playable 24 fps even at it's lowest when I was just testing it, but it definitely stutters as if it's maybe 4-5 FPS. When I faced away from the nearby huge trees (right outside the inf barracks offline), it smoothed out, but as soon as I faced them again it stuttered. Same happened when the barracks wall was blocking my sight (facing the trees, but not able to see them directly because the barracks were filling up the whole screen from real close).

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Yeah but how could this change with no revs to the client itself?

What OS version are you guys running? When did you last update anything from Apple?

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I'm running 10.4.11. I'll have to check /Library/Receipts for the last update, but I don't remember and recent updates.

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Here are my latest updates:

drwxrwxr-x 3 root admin 102 Mar 12 20:10 RAWCameraUpdate.pkg

drwxrwxr-x 3 root admin 102 Mar 12 19:59 CoreFP.pkg

drwxrwxr-x 3 root admin 102 Mar 12 19:59 AppleMobileDeviceSupport.pkg

drwxrwxr-x 3 root admin 102 Mar 12 19:59 iTunesAccess.pkg

drwxrwxr-x 3 root admin 102 Mar 12 19:59 iTunesX.pkg

drwxrwxr-x 3 root admin 102 Feb 15 16:59 SecUpd2009-001PPC.pkg

drwxrwxr-x 3 root admin 102 Feb 15 16:59 JavaForMacOSX10.4Release8.pkg

drwxrwxr-x 3 root admin 102 Jan 29 23:56 iDVD_703.pkg

drwxrwxr-x 3 root admin 102 Jan 29 23:56 QuickTime76_Tiger.pkg

My last SuperDuper clone predates these updates, so I'll try booting from that disk.

---

Booted from my clone and the results were inconclusive. Offline seemed like it might have been better than offline in the up-to-date OS, but I will have to play under poorer FPS conditions to be absolutely sure.

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Elloo m8's,

There is something wrong somewhere, this stutter is unique, and unlike other performance issues, seems unrelated to fps, it started 6 days ago. I have tried 3 mice, 3 joysticks a usb hub from my other computer and my old and new routers, as well as removing the router and going modem direct. Along with various setting changes, has zero impact on issue.

Several other Mac players are having same issue as well...

When you try to pan inf r/l it jumps 2/3/4+ feet instead of smooth pan, similar to lo battery or defective wireless mouse, impossible to fight as inf unless you want to further pad ally scores....

Regards Monty

OSX 10.4.11 (last update was security update 2 months ago)

Dual G4 1.6ghz L2 512

2 gig ram

7200rpm WD commerce class drive w/8meg H/W cache

ATI 9800 256meg vid card

R/R turbo int/connect

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When you try to pan inf r/l it jumps 2/3/4+ feet instead of smooth pan' date=' similar to lo battery or defective wireless mouse, impossible to fight as inf unless you want to further pad ally scores....[/quote']

That's *exactly* what I thought it seemed like when I first encountered it: a dying mouse battery. But my mouse (the MX Revolution) has a rechargeable battery built-in, and I charge it every night bringing it to full from usually no more than 1/2 energy used.

I also figured it might be some sort of USB/joystick conflict as well (someone else mentioned recently that their FPS went way up when they accidentally forgot to plug in the joystick before playing - no luck for me there), but I, too, have tried everything. Two different mice, joystick plugged/unplugged, TONS of settings changes (everything from resolution to visible players to all different effects combinations, etc), killing some processes running in the background, etc. But, still, the fact that this only seems to happen when playing *inf* with the mouse (as opposed to other vehicles with the mouse) seem to suggest it's definitely not just a peripheral thing.

Again, my specs:

Macbook Pro 2.33 duo core, 3GB ram, ATI X1600 256MB RAM video card, 7200rpm drive

OS X 10.5.6

Mouse is a Logitech MX Revolution (wireless USB)

Joystick is Saitek x52

My last updates were all on Mar 29, 2009, 8:31PM:

ProAppsEffects.pkg

Helium.pkg

IMXCodec.pkg

AppleProRes422.pkg

AppleHDVCodec.pkg

Color1.0.4Update.pkg

Compressor3.0.5Update.pkg

FinalCutPro6.0.5Update.pkg

SoundtrackPro202Update.pkg

CinemaToolsUpdate4.0.1.pkg

DVDStudioPro4.2.1Update.pkg

Motion302Update.pkg

MacBook & MacBook Pro Fan Control Installer.pkg

That last one -- the Fan Control -- was installed earlier at 3pm, and is what I first thought the problem might be (which is why I then uninstalled it). I didn't realize until now that all those updates happened the same day....

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Whatever it is has to be either OS related (so far people on both Tiger and Leopard) or somehow network related (how I have no idea) since the game client itself hasn't changed.

The only thing I can think of network might be that the algorithm for sending updates and massaging the vis list has been changed and somehow its making the game do a lot more work when you move around. WHen you turn back and forth who is visible to you changes and maybe the list is now spiking so you are seeing a momentary FPS hit (inf related FPS is ALWAYS related to memory creation/deleting of infantry in your vis list).

I've asked the rats to see if there were any network changes that might have triggered this.

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Whatever it is has to be either OS related (so far people on both Tiger and Leopard) or somehow network related (how I have no idea) since the game client itself hasn't changed.

The only thing I can think of network might be that the algorithm for sending updates and massaging the vis list has been changed and somehow its making the game do a lot more work when you move around. WHen you turn back and forth who is visible to you changes and maybe the list is now spiking so you are seeing a momentary FPS hit (inf related FPS is ALWAYS related to memory creation/deleting of infantry in your vis list).

I've asked the rats to see if there were any network changes that might have triggered this.

Great, thanks for looking into this ahwulf.

Another thing to describe what it feels like, incase someone else is wondering but not yet sure if they're having the same problem:

It's not like having low FPS, where if you move the mouse fast you will turn X amount of degrees regardless of frame rate -- it just jumps more degrees per frame. For instance, moving the mouse 2 inches to the left might turn you 90 degrees, normally. With high FPS it might render 30 frames while moving that 90 degrees; with low FPS it might render only 5. But in either case, the mouse input directly controls the movement, and you end up turning just as much regardless of FPS.

But in this case, it's a very strange hiccup going on, where the movement of your mouse seems somehow interrupted in a sense. Those small freezes seem to sort of "stick" the view in place, so even while you're moving the mouse extra-fast, it still sorta gets stuck and stutters regardless of FPS and almost regardless of how fast you move it (though during the spaces in between the stutters, you seem to cover a bit more degrees when moving faster).

It's hard to explain, but basically it definitely doesn't feel like the normal low-FPS spikes one usually gets, where the input from the mouse/joystick still seems to be read, and it updates accordingly even at a lower frame-rate.

Ugh, I'm done trying to explain this. :) I just want to make sure we're all talking very specifically about the same thing, and make sure we're *not* all imagining it.

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Wow.. thanks for posting this! I too have been having this issue..it's pretty bad. I tried all the usual stuff...nothing. This "turning" lag started the same day I got a new router, so naturally I thought that was the cause. After reading this thread tho, that seems to not be the case. I do seem to remember this "turning lag" from a few years ago, after a patch, and it seemed to persist for a few weeks until some server setting was changed. I don't think this is local or a mac update conflict. Hopefully we can get this solved soon.

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ahwulf,

I don't think this is a Mac-only problem - I get it running the Windows version using Wine on Linux.

But it's definitely the same problem. You guys have described to too well here for it to be anything different.

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I had this problem too for a few days, and then playing last night it didn't seem to be there anymore. Very strange.

What I had was the EXACT same problem as described by insight... he still managed to kill me two days ago, so I guess the problem isn't TOO bad... ;)

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I had this problem too for a few days, and then playing last night it didn't seem to be there anymore. Very strange.

What I had was the EXACT same problem as described by insight... he still managed to kill me two days ago, so I guess the problem isn't TOO bad... ;)

Geez, I actually feel bad about that! hah there I am in my big burly pz IVg slaughtering a harmless little sniper on a 55-minute mission.

If it's any help, it looks like I was killed shortly after, so you were the *only* kill I got before losing that tank. ;)

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