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crs doesnt suport macs ?

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I dont see any evidence of it: we had a bug that involves mouseovers of 10char length.

Causes 100% CTD. How is this not in 1.30.0 or .1 How patient do we have to be?

Is a CTD not a sufficient cause to do a patch, say, for 1.30.2? What do we have to do

to get a simple bug fixed? And why post it in Mac Bugs area when you dont seem to read

it?

This isnt even mentioning the "Effects" bug which causes completely random CTDs every

45min which there really is no expectation of fixing.

A program that crashes every 20 minutes. The Mac port should be labeled as "beta" or

something to lower expectations. How do you expect a new user to abide by such

abysmal performance? They're gonna leave and never look back.

Host Name: Athena-9000

Date/Time: 2009-05-31 23:38:52.952 -0400

OS Version: 10.4.11 (Build 8S2167)

Report Version: 4

Command: World War ][ Online

Parent: WindowServer [56]

Version: 1.30.1 (release) (???)

PID: 607

Thread: 0

Exception: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (0x0001)

Codes: KERN_PROTECTION_FAILURE (0x0002) at 0x00000000

Thread 0 Crashed:

0 com.playnet.ww2ol 0x002eb627 FTLibrary::GetLibrary() const + 1077

1 com.playnet.ww2ol 0x002ef705 float FTFontImpl::AdvanceI(wchar_t const*, int, FTPoint) + 179

2 com.playnet.ww2ol 0x002ee29b FTPoint::Yf() const + 5065

3 com.playnet.ww2ol 0x002ed4f4 FTPoint::Yf() const + 1570

4 com.playnet.ww2ol 0x003a27a1 ScriptFilter::~ScriptFilter [in-charge]() + 3787

5 com.playnet.ww2ol 0x003b9ae5 phui::TextContainer::TextContainer[not-in-charge]() + 5555

6 com.playnet.ww2ol 0x003b9cf8 phui::TextContainer::TextContainer[not-in-charge]() + 6086

7 com.playnet.ww2ol 0x003cb832 phui::Panel::MinSize(float*, float*) + 5396

8 com.playnet.ww2ol 0x003cba6e phui::Panel::MinSize(float*, float*) + 5968

9 com.playnet.ww2ol 0x003c63eb std::map, std::allocator >, phui::ref_ptr, std::less, std::allocator > >, std::allocator, std::allocator > const, phui::ref_ptr > > >::operator[](std::basic_string, std::allocator > const&) + 4127

10 com.playnet.ww2ol 0x003c3f6d std::map, std::allocator >, memio, std::less, std::allocator > >, std::allocator, std::allocator > const, memio> > >::operator[](std::basic_string, std::allocator > const&) + 13105

11 com.playnet.ww2ol 0x001b5cc4 std::vector >, std::allocator > > >::resize(unsigned long, std::vector > const&) + 12470

12 com.playnet.ww2ol 0x003c1989 std::map, std::allocator >, memio, std::less, std::allocator > >, std::allocator, std::allocator > const, memio> > >::operator[](std::basic_string, std::allocator > const&) + 3405

13 com.playnet.ww2ol 0x001b2d69 std::vector >, std::allocator > > >::resize(unsigned long, std::vector > const&) + 347

14 com.playnet.ww2ol 0x003ad5c2 _gnu_cxx::__normal_iterator*, std::vector, std::allocator > > > std::find<__gnu_cxx::__normal_iterator*, std::vector, std::allocator > > >, phui::MessageFilter*>(__gnu_cxx::__normal_iterator *, std::vector, std::allocator > > >, __gnu_cxx::__normal_iterator*, std::vector, std::allocator > > >, phui::MessageFilter* const&) + 458

15 com.playnet.ww2ol 0x003ad6ea _gnu_cxx::__normal_iterator*, std::vector, std::allocator > > > std::find<__gnu_cxx::__normal_iterator*, std::vector, std::allocator > > >, phui::MessageFilter*>(__gnu_cxx::__normal_iterator *, std::vector, std::allocator > > >, __gnu_cxx::__normal_iterator*, std::vector, std::allocator > > >, phui::MessageFilter* const&) + 754

16 com.playnet.ww2ol 0x001a7718 std::map, std::less, std::allocator > > >::operator[](unsigned const&) + 17242

17 com.playnet.ww2ol 0x00066a8b MATERIALPROP::MATERIALPROP[not-in-charge]() + 7835

18 com.playnet.ww2ol 0x00066ac7 MATERIALPROP::MATERIALPROP[not-in-charge]() + 7895

19 com.playnet.ww2ol 0x002da72e std::vector >::resize(unsigned long) + 36752

20 com.playnet.ww2ol 0x002da81e std::vector >::resize(unsigned long) + 36992

21 com.playnet.ww2ol 0x00208a29 std::vector >::push_back(void (*)(weapWeapon*) const&) + 543

22 com.playnet.ww2ol 0x002d3bc7 std::vector >::resize(unsigned long) + 9257

23 com.apple.Foundation 0x92842cca __NSFireTimer + 199

24 com.apple.CoreFoundation 0x9082d756 CFRunLoopRunSpecific + 3341

25 com.apple.CoreFoundation 0x9082ca42 CFRunLoopRunInMode + 61

26 com.apple.HIToolbox 0x92e01878 RunCurrentEventLoopInMode + 285

27 com.apple.HIToolbox 0x92e00f82 ReceiveNextEventCommon + 385

28 com.apple.HIToolbox 0x92e00dd9 BlockUntilNextEventMatchingListInMode + 81

29 com.apple.AppKit 0x93286f45 _DPSNextEvent + 572

30 com.apple.AppKit 0x93286b37 -[NSApplication nextEventMatchingMask:untilDate:inMode:dequeue:] + 137

31 com.apple.AppKit 0x932808c4 -[NSApplication run] + 512

32 com.apple.AppKit 0x93274820 NSApplicationMain + 573

33 com.playnet.ww2ol 0x00002b32 0x1000 + 6962

34 com.playnet.ww2ol 0x00002a59 0x1000 + 6745

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Ahwulf is non-paid volunteer and is the epitomy of everything that a good support worker should be with regard to keeping us up to date with progress on bug-fixing and so forth.

But it says it all that he is unpaid. And as for the ten character name bug - CRS still allow people to choose ten character names even though they know it causes so much pain and frustration for us. I find it unbelievable users are still allowed to choose 10 character names. It adds nothing to gameplay so no reason for this to continue while crashes are a consequence. CRS, if they had any customer facing skills of any note, would have stopped people choosing them.

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Spamming the exact same thing WITHOUT system specs make it harder.

G4? G5? Intel?

iMac? MacBook? Mac Pro?

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Mac support is me (and I pay just like you), with Oliver (KFS1) the host guy doing some of it.

The 10char bug you are seeing is a new one, not the same bug at all. The effects crash is different as well though in a nearby location. I will work on them when I get back from taking care of my ill mom this week.

Once the rats start getting paid by the Chinese they will have money to spend including hiring more programmers. The Chinese went into beta last week. Patience, grasshopper.

The only rat with a mac is Oli, Gophur's mac is kaput.

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Doc7,

It looks like you've been around for a while and should already know that the Mac User Base for BE is extremely small. I think that it used to be much larger and much more active, but nobody has ever released Mac vs. Windoze user numbers. Somebody did a guesstimate one time and figured that we numbered below 500. There's no way that there are even 100 of us left here anymore.

I was in the 2nd Beta group in 2002 and truly appreciate that CRS actually put forth a game platform for my beloved Mac...there weren't then and there aren't now that many great MMORG games out there for us. The other crap out there will never be as immersive.

We are but a blip on CRS's radar and, if it weren't for Ahwulf, I'm not sure that there would be a platform anymore. Weren't you around for the horrendous shouting matches at poor old Gophur about the 1.16-1.19 sound bugs? Don't you remember the WEEKS that went by with no response from CRS?

This ain't nothing and, through Ahwulf, we do get a regular and insightful response. If he doesn't know what's wrong, he speaks right up and tells us. I appreciate a response more than anything as I had stopped paying/playing because of the lack of response (on top of having an old G4 tower that I couldn't upgrade anymore).

Anyway, I'm glad as hell that I have a fast Mac now and can play again. Yep, the sound sucks, the mouse has a bug, the chat system is FUBAR, my joystick hat-switch sticks, and my FPS took a nosedive in 1.30 -- but I can play and I love this game.

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RCB: Your points are well taken, but it doesn't change the basic facts.

1. For most WWIIOL mac users, the game is becoming unplayable (glad to hear you have not yet slipped into that category)

2. CRS is not responding to #1 above. Ahwulf is a star, but a volunteer player (who has to pay for his own monthly subscription!) doesn't count as CRS giving a damn.

3. For all this, we are paying $15 a month.

Can't do it anymore. Will unsub this month and watch the forums to see if things pick up. But I'm not hopeful. Which kills me because I love this game.

(On a side note, I can only imagine there are more Mac players now than ever before. As a percentage of the overall home computer market, it is the fasting growing sector and much much larger than it was 8 years ago.)

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Your estimate is way too low, I know the real numbers :-) A number do log in under bootcamp but the majority never log into the forums.

CRS does give a damn but has as basic need for $ which is why the China deal is a big thing. They make just enough to handle things as they are. When RickB left (the mac programmer) we talked about wether to can the Mac altogether, only support via Crossover, or keep going. It's 10% or so Mac players so they money is worth keeping it, and Crossover was too expensive. However they can't expand at all (they have to find a mac programmers who can handle other things as well, or pay me part time) until they get more money, and China is a big pile of cash once they go live.

Gophur has a (dead) mac and Oli has a nice iMac and Killer was talking about getting a Mac as well. But you have to have money to pay people (or find a sucker like me!) for all the things they want to do, and that includes both platforms (and could even include linux at some point). 98% of the code is the same but even there the bugs occur differently on each platform - like the 10char name bug crashes the mac but just draws random crap on the PC.

Believe me Rafter has a long list of things to do with the $ once they get some. So threatening to unsub accomplishes nothing helpful but its your choice.

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Yeah, I love the game too.

But damn, it's really teetering on the edge of being unplayable now. I cringe everytime an update is mentioned, no patch fever here, as it seems that with each update we get, more

stuff gets broken in the mac client that is never fixed.

RCB... your heart is with the game and I respect your point of view. S! m8! I'm just not sure I totally agree.

I made a post on these forums a while back, asking for mac client/support to be removed from this game. The game itself is too great to have this lackluster mac client polluting it. This is no refection on Ahwulf, he has done an excellent job in my view of trying to mitigate the issues we bring up here. S! Ahwulf.

But to me, the basic fact is that if you are going to have a mac client, then you damn well need to provide proper support regardless of number of users. The mac platform has been growing in recent years, not shrinking, so this would fit well with a company-wide based growth model.

I've been around for a while now, and I do love this game, and hopefully the new market in China can help bankroll the many delayed fixes in the mac client. I don't really know what else to say on this matter...It kind of leaves me speechless.

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I think the point is really about CRS responsiveness to issues. I think most of us understand that when patches are released there will be problems due to the nature of the game. But there are some things that are, in my opinion, inexcusable.

For example the ten character name bug is an appalling own goal. Here we have a bug that causes 10% of the players to crash frequently and/or makes playing the game on a level playing field with non mac users impossible and causes enormous frustration.

It is clear NO testing could have been done to see what the effect of the change to allow longer names had or this completely repeatable bug would have been spotted. That is bad enough. But instead of either a) reverting all users back to 8 character names immediately or B) preventing new 10 character names, CRS did c) nothing at all - thus allowing the problem to get more acute as more players signed in with 10 character names.

I find this very difficult to understand and CRS don't seem to care to give any explanation or want to show any sign that they understand the scale of the frustration that this bug has caused. It would have been very easy to mitigate substantially the effect of it by a) testing in the first place or B) preventing further users signing up or changing names when the bug became apparent. Am I missing something here?

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As a 1st-year player/addict, I too very much appreciate what Ahwulf is doing, especially in spite of the much more important things in his life that need his attention (seriously; you're insane!)....but also can't help but feel *very* frustrated as a Mac user (as of 2 years ago).

I'm very confident that the China release will bring the much-needed resources....but, honestly, it's getting pretty hairy watching this game progress. *Every* *single* *patch* since this game was released has been full of so many bugs, and even those released to fix bugs just introduces more. And seeing the same relatively simple (by appearances, anyway) bugs carry over from patch to patch is just disheartening, Mac user or not. I just don't see things going so well with the China release if *this* is the kind of game that they'll be playing....

That said, I know the Rats are doing the best they can, as they always have, and our b!tching probably doesn't help...but we are still paid customers, so we are absolutely in the right to want certain very-realistic expectations to be met. It's just damn frustrating when they are not.

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Believe me Rafter has a long list of things to do with the $ once they get some. So threatening to unsub accomplishes nothing helpful but its your choice.

Ahwulf: I don't want you to think that I or the others on this thread are petulant complainers threatening to unsub to spite CRS. As you can see from the other posters, we love this game, we recognize CRS is under pressure, but we are also rational. Being rational, we can't pay for a game we can't play. And IF the fabled Chinese money does arrive, I am sure you are correct in saying that Rafter has a long long list of things to fix. Unfortunately, no one believes (based on customer service to date) that the Mac issues are anywhere near the top of that list.

To be honest, if any paid CRS staff waded into this discussion and said "We know. We're trying to fix it. Give us another x weeks." We would all stay. But they won't and I'm guessing its because they aren't trying.

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Ahwulf: I don't want you to think that I or the others on this thread are petulant complainers threatening to unsub to spite CRS. As you can see from the other posters, we love this game, we recognize CRS is under pressure, but we are also rational. Being rational, we can't pay for a game we can't play. And IF the fabled Chinese money does arrive, I am sure you are correct in saying that Rafter has a long long list of things to fix. Unfortunately, no one believes (based on customer service to date) that the Mac issues are anywhere near the top of that list.

To be honest, if any paid CRS staff waded into this discussion and said "We know. We're trying to fix it. Give us another x weeks." We would all stay. But they won't and I'm guessing its because they aren't trying.

Furthermore, the Rats have been dangling carrots in front of us for years as we've continued to chase them, and "it" (anything) always seems to be *just* around the corner.

People can only take that for so long, and enough people have already left the game years ago when they grew tired of waiting.

That said, I'm certainly not threatening to unsub. I've unsubbed a couple times in the past because I haven't been able to play much (and I was kinda broke), but so long as I have a steady income and continue to believe in this game, I will continue to pay regardless of if I actively play. It's frustrating, but I'm hopeful....

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YOU DONT NEED TO UNSUB! if CRS does not yet have the resources to support MAC, well MAC has the resources to support WINDOWS! your answer is bootcamp until china $ will get them the resources to hire some programmers that also happen to use MAC. (Thats what I had to do and the game runs well)

Also Windows 7 is for now free until march 2010 so you don't need any extra money. Just some patience to install it and make sure all drivers works. I have installed the 64 bit even if bootcamp does not fully 'support' it. Once you are done with the windows installation and you insert the leopard DVD it will tell you that this version of windows is not supported by bootcamp. But fear not, close that window and explore the CD/DVD drive. You will find there the setup for 64 bit architectures. The only problem I had was that the Nvidia drivers I had to install from the Nvidia website. All in all it took about 2 hours to get my game running again!

So if you love the game you will understand that as of now CRS does not really have a MAC team. If you unsub their motivation to build one once they get the resources will be slim! So please stay, you can do it!

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Furthermore' date=' the Rats have been dangling carrots in front of us for years as we've continued to chase them, and "it" (anything) always seems to be *just* around the corner.[/quote']

That is an excellent point Insight, and exactly what I was talking about in my post. Not too long ago it was "just wait till 1.30" and all your problems will be solved. Before that it was "just wait for 1.29". The bloody sound bug is what over two years old now? That carrot has been dangling for soo long now it's nothing but a dried up beet.

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Believe me they know every you guys say here (I send gophur way too many emails). But I sit inside as well as outside, so I am sympathetic to both sides. They really want this to be better but the resources just don't allow it. They have 4% or so of the staff of the average AAA title on the PC. Given the crap in the code I know (much has been in the there since 1998) is an enormous burden to move anything forward, and they are all working way too many hours trying to get it to work. Resources aren't always a panecea but in this case its like trying to run a marathon on your arms.

I will see if I can send an internal email (not at home, not sure I can) and get at least some statement of support from Gophur.

I look at the codebase all the time (when home) and gag is it scary. But they have made major changes underneath what you see. 1.30 was a massive amount of internal rewrite (and yet there is so much old crap still there too) but mostly it was for the Chinese. 1.31 will look radically different on the surface.

That said, the number of people in the open beta was almost nil. I tried to get people into it but I never met anyone on a Mac while I was in (I am sure there were but most of the time I was on during the day). As a community we really need to be in beta as a group so we can find some of this crap earlier.

If you are not in the closed beta group and want to be EMAIL ME. I will make sure you get in and then PLEASE beat it to death. Easier to fix bug when not already shipping.

Lol I am writing all these messages sitting on a bed with my MBP on a nightstand. But I can't do anything (not even run the game) from here but the forums!

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With regard to the beta testing you may remember that mac users couldn't log in to it for a long long time. So obviously it is going to be much harder to find bugs! Again the page which gave the status of the beta server said it was up. I t made no mention of the fact that mac users couldn't log in. I found that another own goal by the way.

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Mac support is me (and I pay just like you), with Oliver (KFS1) the host guy doing some of it.

The 10char bug you are seeing is a new one, not the same bug at all. The effects crash is different as well though in a nearby location. I will work on them when I get back from taking care of my ill mom this week.

Once the rats start getting paid by the Chinese they will have money to spend including hiring more programmers. The Chinese went into beta last week. Patience, grasshopper.

The only rat with a mac is Oli, Gophur's mac is kaput.

i'm sorry i just copy pasted what petzl wrote i dont even own a mac

I just get soo furstraed same as he does when things doesnt go right . I tow him alot ( or used to ) and he is very very good at gunner tanker it just as the fact he ctds every 10 mins or so this was part the code he posted . So i took it and copyed for him . He doesnt liek the forums much but i'm ajunkie till i get baned LOL

I do thank you for all your hard work mybe that crs does get much $$ in they will pay you as you need to be paid . I hate people doeing **** for free with this game . while the head peeps you never hear form get the benifits form it ( killer mo ect .. ) to name a few as the rest beat thier heads to make things right DOC kfs1 ( altough i havent herd too much out kfs1 ) BUT THANK YOU FOR ALL YOU HARD WORK

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I need to drop my two cents for what it's worth. First off ... I have been in this game since very early on. I am sure I was probably one of the original group of 50 who was introduced to this game through Mac's. There have been times throughout the years that I have have "suspended" my subscription from frustration due to patch problems, bugs, as well as my machine no longer living up to the specs required to run this game enjoyably. With all my appreciation that CRS has hung in there with developing a game this intense for the Mac I can say it has not been disappointing as a whole. I know most Mac users are tired of the outdated concept that the Mac platform is second class. Lack of acknowledgment of the Mac community revenue potential is a money stream many continue to miss. I network with many gamers who are on the Mac platform and few have hesitated to subscribe once I introduced them. Some have jumped ship due to the same frustration.

In all of this I have watched Ahwulf hang in there for us and it frustrates the hell out of me that he is not compensated representatively for what has to be the best effort to maintain the Mac community. We have had some words here before and even in the conflict I appreciate the position of customer service he has provided with getting us some info where there usually is very little. I say all of this to say I wish CRS would at least send something your way as you are a focal point in maintaining an income flow. There have been times when I didn't play but left my subscription active as a show of developmental support. I suggest in the future those of you wishing to suspend your accounts float a little help toward Ahwulf. I hear he also does iPhone developmet. Float him a bone if you can.

As for the CRS attitude towards Mac. Don't take it personally. They are not the first and won't be the last but at least they"are". I find in the times that I have been frustrated the improvements that come make it worth the frustration.

It's like owning a Triumph TR6 or any Triumph/BL car. When it works it is so worth it!!!

SALUTE MAC COMMUNITY ...

Hang in there and our numbers will grow from a whisper to an amount that will impact dollars. Then maybe .. just maybe ... And I am sure it will be worth it.

If you don't beleive me then find me a Sim this immersive with this range of playing options that runs on multi platforms ....

Veteran of Air Warrior

Tried Warbirds (BE runs much better)

BE 4 life!!!!

DoJa

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I to am a Day-One Mac player.

Lapses in my sub was due to $$ reasons, not bug issues.

Yes, I hated the bugs as well, but found ways to compensate or overcome.

What I do know is: Outside this community, this game is almost UNKNOWN!

See my other post.

Sure I could run it in under Bootcamp, but consider this:

CRS will loose more $$$ from Mac players then it would gain by focusing only on Windows.

The controlled environment of Mac soft/hardware make it much easier to support then Windows. It can take weeks to kill a PC bug that effects 5% of the PC player base (like with my AMD PC desktop), but typically almost all of the Mac PB will work first time (some strange conflicts aside).

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YOU DONT NEED TO UNSUB! if CRS does not yet have the resources to support MAC' date=' well MAC has the resources to support WINDOWS! your answer is bootcamp [/quote']

Bogol - thanks for the advice. After a few frustrating hours last night I learned my rig simply won't support this, or if it will it will take considerable more fussing, tweaking, crying, begging, whimpering, etc. I don't love my kids enough to go through that, let alone this game.

Tried playing last night in a few quieter towns, but would CTD after about 10 mins when I would open my map and hit a 10char name by accident. And when some action popped up, my FPS plummeted to <10 fps, leaving me a sitting duck.

I'm afraid my days in wwiiol are over for now. Will watch the forums to see if anything changes, but judging from Gophur's message yesterday, I am even more pessimistic than I was before. (But thanks Gophur for weighing in and being honest, regardless)

And thanks especially to Ahwulf. Good luck with your mom and for Christ-sake, make CRS cover your monthly fees! That's ridiculous.

!S and good luck all.

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The reason I started playing this game is down to it having a Mac version, wouldn't be playing it now otherwise. Have to admit I often play in Bootcamp because, sadly it just works and looks better, seriously the difference in looks in amazing!

That said I will always support the Mac version, I still download the Mac version and occasionally play in it to field my support. I would imagine at least 25% of Mac players are playing through Bootcamp.

When I get my new Mac i'll try the mac client again.

My main reason for playing in Bootcamp is really to use TS, TS overlay and some of the other PC only apps.

Still I'll always support the Mac version and always take the p*ss out of my PC playing squaddies who stuggle to run their machines. Always remember we might have the lesser end of the game, they have the lesser end of the computer market :) Ours will improve, theirs will get worse!

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Yeah if bootcampy works and you don't mind ugly windows then do it for now. But Mac will get better soon . Do participate in closed and open Mac betas though. Maybe someday I can afford to work more on this codebase.

Argh I miss playing this week...

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