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jnmoulin

Gophur: Major bugs and defects encountered in Mac OS 1.19

42 posts in this topic

Thanks Jack. Always good to have Jack Daniels in my corner.

I do know a lot about computers and make my living on this G5.

It does a lot more complex things than play this game.

I thought we were speaking to the management on this board but I guess we're not we're only talking to each other.

How do we let them know that the Mac version of the game simply doesn't work anymore?

I can't play with all these horrendous bugs. It's bad enough that I can't set missions anymore and have to click every brigade to locate a mission or MSP in a town we're supposedly attacking.

Who do we speak to and how?

Every time I've placed a ticket on that system no-one responds.

They claim they still support OS 10.3.9 and 10.4 where? How? I don’t see any Mac support at all.

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I don't mind complaints but please give us a break. I am also a *paying* customer, but I spend a lot of time helping Rick (currently the *only* client programmer until the new guy gets up to speed) fix the *2* real nasty problems. I also spend time reading and replying to messages in this forum. And only becuase I want the game to be better. If you were a developer you might understand how difficult it is for 2 guys to keep this code (that they didn't write) going. The other game companies have dozens of guys developing their code (in fact one of the former rat coders just joined one).

So yeah, your $12 gives you the right to complain, but we get the point already. Soon the sound bug will be squashed, this is code that Apple just took over from the open source supported version, and its not their fault it reeks; it needs a complete rewrite (believe me I have seen enough of it now). The FPS (which is the cause of virtually all problems we are seeing) bug was just a compiler settings issue with XCode. It's done with.

No, the code isn't all that pleasant, it was written by way too many people without enough of an idea how the game would work, and released way before it was ready. The *2* guys left didn't write it but they are really good programmers who work 7 days a week. They just hired a new guy who is learning like me how deep this beast is.

So please state your complaints, report good bug information so we can nail the problems, then be patient. It's just code and it will be fixed as soon as possible. That's my $13 comment.

Edit: the ticket system is basically useless as they only have one guy doing support. If you want help, ask here. There are a lot of bright people on the forum.

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I thought you worked for the company ahwulf.

I appreciate that you're trying to help but I'm sorry as a paying customer that's just not good enough for me.

I pay $15.00 a month (not $12.00) to play this game and that’s not to spend my time beta testing what has been admited to be a premature release of software that simply does not work.

I don't really care that as you stated, they wrote the code wrong for Macintosh OS X, The code was never properly written since day one, Too many cooks have been screwing with it piling more bad code on top of old bad code, and the programmers at the company are leaving because the company won't pay enough to keep them on.

These are not conditions which inspire confidence in a product to a customer.

If the product is really as poorly constructed as you state, and there is no decent tech support to speak of, then they are stealing my money under false pretenses which is fraud plain and simple.

Don't get me wrong I love this game as much as you do or I wouldn't be wasting my time trying to get the company to own up to their accountability, but the reality is this is not shareware, nor an open beta, this is packaged sold software.

The company "C.R.S." is treading serious water here which if they keep up as they are going at least on the Macintosh platform, they will be faced with losing all their customers and need to be looking at the distinct possibility they will be facing a class action suit.

I really don't want to see that happen because it could spell the end of the game.

I've seen it happen with other similar games in the past for these very same reasons.

I think that it may be time they look into some possible immediate remedies to this situation.

Clearly refunds are in order.

Next if I were C.R.S. I would re-establish this latest release as a beta. I would be happy to help as a paid beta tester if I was needed however it seems there are many players who are probably more suited to that role including yourself awfulf.

Thirdly if C.R.S. is not in a position to pay compenserate rates to their programmers they might look into taking out a small loan to hire an OpenAL guru for long enough to get the thing stable.

Please don't misunderstand my motivations. I am not trying to flame C.R.S. here. I'm only attempting to put the current situation in proper relationship with industry standards.

Please believe me when I say I want to see this product succeed. It's a brilliant and ambitous game and I only want to be able to recommend it to other professionals in the gaming community but I can not in good conscious do so in its present form.

I appreciate the time you are taking to assist C.R.S. in rectifying the major bugs in this latest release ahwulf and I respect the positive attitude you are taking towards that end. But you really shouldn't have to be doing it.

In conclusion I think a public admission that the latest Macintosh release fell far short of expectations would go a long way to smoothing out customer relations and some sort of good faith refund program even if it were only a one month credit would go a long way to re-establishing C.R.S.' credibility with its Macintosh customer base.

It's simply good business.

I have only been playing this particular game for a little more than a year now so I don't know all the developers by name. But shouldn't we really be speaking to them directly?

I am more than willing to take the time away from my busy schedule on my real job to furnish such a person with whatever bug reports I can compile.

But I strongly believe a formal apology is in order to us, C.R.S.' loyal Mac customer base.

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Apparently you are somewhat in the minority, as most folks here are much more patient. Please do not disparage Rick and Oliver, as I have been software engineer for nearly 25 years, and I know good programmers when I see them, they are just overwhelmed trying to do all the work. Yes, you might fault CRS for decisions or whatever, but calling the developers unprofessional is not called for. I have the code and you do not. Yes, not everyone who has ever written this beast was as sharp as the two remaining guys but please don't blame them.

Believe me this code is not far from being highly playable again, I know where it sucks and where it flies. Currently in my dev version I get nice 20-30 fps in busy towns again. The sound is still being worked on, but otherwise it rocks again. I expect the sound bug is just one little thing in just the wrong place, but I don't have enough knowledge to do more than poke around in it.

CRS is limited in funds, which makes it hard to hire more guys, which would gain more players, which would generate more funds. Catch-22. Trying running a business with insufficient funds, it's not fun, and I've been there. If you complain too much, you might turn off prospective customers, and voila, a self-fulfilling prophecy.

In a week or two everything will work and all will be forgotten...

$12 or $13 or $15 or whatever it is is what I pay to play and code and answer questions.

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Fine.

But currently everyone admits the software simply doesn't work.

I'm sure they work hard. But they're game programmers not ditch diggers.

They should have told us this was still a non functioning beta and many of us would never have downloaded it. If they feel they're not paid enough for their work they can find other jobs elsewhere. Although I would suggest they do not use version 1.19 as a sample of their work in their job search.

I'd like more money for what I do too but I am still held fully accountable for the work I do whatever my rate may be. That's what defines me as a professional.

If by some fluke they didn't realize that all the problems they were clearly alerted to in the actual beta were never resolved in the final release they should refund our money and apologize for their error.

However everything I've seen indicates that they did know.

Your loyalty is commendable but there is such a thing as being loyal to a fault.

I'd like my money back until they figure out how to fix their mistakes.

They can simply credit my credit card for the period of time I've paid for where the game didn’t and still doesn’t function.

A formal apology for this shoddy release is in order here. I’m still waiting to hear one.

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Apparently you are somewhat in the minority' date=' as most folks here are much more patient[/quote']

Not sure if that is true. Depends on your definition of "patient". Just read the forums (all of them). People are threatening to leave on all forums, not just the tech help ones. Even in-game you see people bitching about it on chat.

I am going to be more patient simply because I love this game, have never seen anything like it, and to me $15 means I will have to have 3 less coffees at Starbucks - or two less Martinis on Friday night. If I look at it that way, then somehow I can deal with it a bit more. That does not make it "Right" though.

I have never seen this much "patience" in a group of paying customers before. That is, if you define patience as still being a paying customer when a product is useless. They are NOT patient in the sense of being silent about it though. You have to admit, we are being very patient in one regard and not the other. I dont pay to trouble shoot and report problems.

But i guess thats because i didnt know that this company was just a couple of guys punching code in their garage. I thought I was sending my coffee change to a real company... so I guess its all okay then.

Tell Fred or Bob or whatever their names are that their next couple cups-of-joe are on me. They can pay me back later.

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I guess I have a different opinion than the dissenters.

Money back? Get real. I've bough plenty of Mac games over the years (since 1987, in fact) that were crap. Think Flight Simulator or that old golf game on a 9" black-and-white screen. Man, I was so proud to buy a Mac in 1990 with a *gray-scale* capability.

This game isn't crap. It's also not a Tom Clancy game, it isn't Deus Ex (the best game ever, IMO), and it isn't MoH Allied Assault. It's a simulator. No more storming foxholes and killing 20 dumb Axis soldiers with a bazooka and a sack full of charcoal bricks. WWIIOL takes great pains to simulate real tools, and I appreciate that effort.

And the only game developer that responds so well to customers and ahwulf and Co, so far as I know, is X-Plane.

And I *have* thought about buying a PC or PlayStation for the game experience. I crave some of the latest releases. But not worth it, really. Better things in life to do than stock up on a pile of games waiting for me to play them. But then, I *do* live in Hawaii, and the beach and about 1000 other things are better out here than this game or anything else I could do sitting in front of a Mac or a PC or the bizarre machines I look at (but won't talk about) in my windowless Dept of Defense office building.

Like you folks, I've bought plenty of things over the years that didn't work out -- for my computer entertainment and otherwise. I lick my wounds and move on. Try to use education and common sense to move away from bad deals as quickly as possible.

I haven't moved on from WWIIOL on the Mac yet.

How about you move on if you find WWIIOL didn't work out for you?

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Well I finally got a response to my help ticket with Playnet.

There was by no means enough space to list all the defects of version 1.19 into the allotted 500 character space on the ticket but in listing just a few of the major ones I was awarded a month's credit for being unable to play the Mac version of the game in its current state.

I advise every other Mac player of World War 2 Online to do the same until the programmers develop a Mac version that functions.

Hopefully a month will be enough time.

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G4 dual 1.25

GeForce ti4600

1 gig ram

OS 10.4.1

I'm having all the same problems but my biggest concern is perfomance (fps). It has gotten worse with each upgrade since I joined (vr1.11?) to being nearly unplayable in 1.19. Infantry is unplayable- 90% of the time fps 0-3. My question- Is my mac now obsolete for this game?

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Hux,

your Mac is getting a bit older for this game but there's no way to tell until they can write a Mac version of the game that functions properly. Many of us are on brand new dual processor G5s with plenty of ram and new video cards and we're experiencing frame rates so bad as to make the game completely unplayable due to the poorly written and untested code.

Other M.P.O.L. games work fine on my Mac.

Wait to consider upgrading until they release a Mac version of the game that functions with a modicum of reliability.

Until then I suggest you issue a help ticket to Playnet as I did and they'll give you a cash credit for the period of time since the premature release of 1.19 for the Mac.

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I don't want to harp on things that have already been said as to the level of customer service (or lack thereof), or the playability of the game due to bugs in many of the releases, BUT...

If I added up all the time over the last two years that I've been a paying member where I was unable to play the game due to these problems it would add up to at least 3 months and probably as much as 6 months of gameplay that I was denied due to these problems.

One thing that bothers me is that I have seen from statements made by the developers over the last 2 weeks that they fixed the infantry FPS problem and that it will be in the next release, WHEN WILL THAT BE? if that BIG problem was fixed, why not do a release now so we can play.

Sorry to rant. I love this game and it pisses me off that I can't play.

--Steve

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I can't speak for the rats on when a patch comes out. I can say I've spent countless hours the last 2 weeks finding the 2 major bugs, testing possible fixes and then testing what Rick sends me. Read the posts I've made in virtually every thread here.

As to Mr Moulin, he's been ranting for more than his fair share, so feel free to join in. However it won't do any good as I am not working any more since I do this for free and have a real job as well. There are only 2 real rat programmers at the moment (third one on the way, plus Ramp) so they can't work any faster.

I just tested the final sound fix tonight and it seems to work really well.

The FPS eater bug #1 is fixed.

I found a second FPS eater bug in drawing text in the new UI elements (yes, Mr Moulin, it was there as well) and reported it to Rick tonight with evidence. Since this code is 100% new its not suprising it has a problem and its cross-platform as well. This problem is not as severe as the first FPS eater (which was just a compiler setting wrong).

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... it won't do any good as I am not working any more since I do this for free...

Geritt,

no one is minding the store.

We’re paying for an online subscription service without any accountability from the merchant actually providing the subscription.

The only entity that even replies to legitimate customer complaints is himself another customer who claims he does so pro bono as a hobby.

If I were you I'd try sending a trouble ticket into Playnet requesting your 3 months subscription reimbursed.

If that doesn't work try filing a consumer dispute with whichever credit card company Playnet is charging for your subscription.

I addressed this thread to the Game Producer a week ago yet neither he nor anyone else employed by Cornered Rat Software or Playnet has replied.

Someone named Krieger did eventually respond to my Playnet ticket claiming he would award me a month's credit. So I'll wait the month out to see if the company can repair the software.

Since Cornered Rat Software knows the Macintosh version doesn't work I don’t understand how they’re legally offering it as a paid subscription download.

The company also hasn't posted any consumer alerts that version 1.19 for the Mac is not operating properly and customers shouldn’t try to use it until it’s fixed.

It’s all simply unacceptable.

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to clear up a few things...

ahwulf is the real deal. he is exactly what he claims. he vollunteers his time to help support the Mac version.

krieger is the new support rat, he was hired just about a month or two ago after the previous support rat was let go. he is the man to contact about any and all account problems and to see about refund or credit for not being able to play. his email is krieger@playnet.com or simply submit a support ticket which does sometimes take time to get a response.

This forum is called "community support", it is only run BY the community for Player to Player tech help and is NOT the official support system. The devs do not regularly post here and are not expected to deal with support issues at all in here. they sometimes do but that is not the purpose of this forum, nor is it for complaints. it's a forum for asking your fellow player for tech help and information.

[this thread has run it's course, please contact krieger@playnet.com or submit a support ticket if you have questions regarding getting credit for not being able to play] - MOD

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