Pearl Harbor Feedback Thread

[JAMMYMAN 1]

Post your Good Points, Bad Points, and the Ugly Points Here so we can try to make next years event better.

[merc88 5]

Post your Good Points' date=' Bad Points, and the Ugly Points Here so we can try to make next years event better.[/quote']

I so enjoy these events...its hard to say anything....

1. Clearer instructions on where to group up would be nice

2. Perhaps periodic in game promo's would increase participation...

3. Other than that, FANTASTIC JOB...

4. DO MORE events like this...

Merc88/87/86

[stugatz 0]

Awsome Event! Any way to get more people to sign up would be my only suggestion.

I think there should be a Doolittle Raid to follow this event. Bombers trying to destroy Factories while Bofors defend the route.

[jtninja1 0]

Good Points

1. Great event, everyone had fun.

2. Team work!

3. Great location

4. Was great to see so many ships

Bad Points

1. If you had a crew memeber with your ship and he didnt show, it caused problems

2. There would be 5 minutes of battle, then we'd wait for 10 or 15. The battle didnt last long enough IMO.

3. Campaign was still going on during this. Why couldnt we have extended Intermission a couple of days, so that we could shut off the main server and everyon comes for the event?

Improvements

1. Recommend a 3-1 ratio for attackers

2. Have a few enemy Fams attempt to infultrate the harbor (represent midget subs).

3. More torpedo bombers. Many of us ship mates were saying we never saw a torpedo bomber today...

4. Ships AA cant fire until the first planes fly past (In the real event many guns were not manned when the attack started).

5. Put the planes on Ford Island. I didnt like the line of DDs to the south, it took away from the attack at the island.

6. Unless we completely fill every ship, I think there should be a lot more 1 manned ships compared to 2. While they'll be more ships to attack the planes, if you follow step 4, there wont be as many by the time they can return fire...

Looking forward to the next event, this was a blast!

[merc88 5]

NO early warning radar...

Merc88/87/86

[icetwp 0]

NO early warning radar...

Merc88/87/86

I'm not sure it is that easy for the Rats to turn off and on.

But even if they could turn it off it wouldn't make much difference. You see the Ships have their own radar which trips at about 6,000m.

Ice, Fleet Command

[icetwp 0]

Good Points

1. Great event, everyone had fun.

2. Team work!

3. Great location

4. Was great to see so many ships

Agreed. (my underline)

Bad Points

1. If you had a crew memeber with your ship and he didnt show, it caused problems

It is almost standard procedure that there will be several "no shows" to major Events like Pearl Harbour.

And crewing up is always difficult as a result. That is why Naval starts 1 hour before the actual Event Start Time.

On the flip side one of the advantages of multi-crew is that you only need one guy to show up and the Naval placements then happen as planned.

2. There would be 5 minutes of battle, then we'd wait for 10 or 15. The battle didnt last long enough IMO.

Heck, if there was a way to have an unending battle in a Special Event, where everyone had fun, I'd do it in a heartbeat but I still have not figured out how to do that. From my point of view I think that is the "main server".

And it should be noted the real life battle (if you can call it that) at Pearl Harbour didn't last long.

3. Campaign was still going on during this. Why couldnt we have extended Intermission a couple of days, so that we could shut off the main server and everyon comes for the event?

We used to shut down the main server and have Special Events that included the entire Playerbase.

I personally would like to do that again sometime in the future but they generally include Naval, Air, and Ground, which of course makes the Event type and planning massive.

Improvements

1. Recommend a 3-1 ratio for attackers

2. Have a few enemy Fams attempt to infultrate the harbor (represent midget subs).

3. More torpedo bombers. Many of us ship mates were saying we never saw a torpedo bomber today...

4. Ships AA cant fire until the first planes fly past (In the real event many guns were not manned when the attack started).

5. Put the planes on Ford Island. I didnt like the line of DDs to the south, it took away from the attack at the island.

6. Unless we completely fill every ship, I think there should be a lot more 1 manned ships compared to 2. While they'll be more ships to attack the planes, if you follow step 4, there wont be as many by the time they can return fire...

Jammyman, Giggadee, and I are going to go bury ourselves in a hole for a while after the amount of time we put into Pearl Harbour III.

We have a year to discuss improvements.

Looking forward to the next event, this was a blast!

So are we. So are we.

Icetwp

Edited December 12, 2010 by icetwp

[jtninja1 0]

You guys worked your asses off to make this happens, thanks a ton. Ill make sure to help out next year, so you, jammy and gig can have an easier load

If we want to involve all 3 teirs, perhaps a D-Day event? Im not sure when the last time we did one was. You could have the Fams as LCVPs, carrying troops to the shore for the landing, with only a 20mm gun allowed to be used each. DD's can provided shelling, transports carry tanks and guns, and move in after troops secure the beach. You can have paras drop behind lines early. The enemy, Axis or Allied, wont have much of a navy, but they'll have lots of ei, ets, eguns, ea, etc. Give the attacking force 2 hours to take a town. If they dont, they lose. Ive got a lot more ideas on this one, but if that ever gets any grounds, I can post elsewhere or email

[frantish 19]

Good:

*New location is best! Still a little large, but works!

*Setup was faster because DD spawn point closer.

*"3ed wave" is fun, should be planed as a "for kicks" finally in future.

Bad:

*Placements of ships: Both Jammyman's map and Icetwp in game placement left much to be desired, but it is very hard to get the placement right given the size of ships to terrain.

*AWS (need to see if Rats can turn off that function)

*Knokke should have been launch point for Japanese, it is far enough away not to bother the Navy fleet, but close enough for quick turn around for 2ed wave.

*No clear victory score made, an accurate measure not needed, but some kind of value needed.

*Some details not clearly resolved.

Ugly:

*Sign-up (anticipating participation): Next time make 2 lists, a core list of ships and planes that MUST be filled, then open up to additional positions (players offer a first pick in first list, and if they want an alternate then add that).

*Sign-ups (Player management, aka Crowed Control): Their has to be a better way to manage the signups! Make a plan and stick with it, and if it needs to change, make it clear to everyone. Too much was happening the last few days to explain here.

*Having the Navy fighters (H75) waiting in hangers is silly. Historically the fighters that did successfully launch survived after 100 or so did not. Now if we had 100 fighters on the field, then OK, but we had about 10.

*No plan for bofors. Most spawned and located in one area. Need some dedicated trucks.

*I still think needed a few bofors set up at beginning of event.

Bottom line, despite all, it was the BEST PH event!

The location is better, the execution went better, the event direction by Giggadee and Icetwp was TOP FORM! (Way to go guys!!)

As long as we learn from today, PHIV will be a SUPER!

Well done Jammyman!

[icetwp 0]

Good:

*New location is best! Still a little large, but works!

It worked well. I'm not set to call it the "best" possible location. Le Crotoy looks interesting in that you would have a actual enclosed Harbour there.

Good

*Setup was faster because DD spawn point closer.

Actually that is a draw. The distance last year from Helle to the Crom island area is very similar in distance from Vliss to Kamperland.

The real reason the Setup went faster is because most all of the Naval Players showed up 1 hour early and worked with me as a Team.

Good

*"3ed wave" is fun, should be planed as a "for kicks" finally in future.

We had a 3rd wave in PH II as well. Mentioning the "3rd wave for kicks" can easily be done in the rules area of the Event.

Bad

*Placements of ships: Both Jammyman's map and Icetwp in game placement left much to be desired, but it is very hard to get the placement right given the size of ships to terrain.

The placement of ships on the Event Map needs to be reduced in area, agreed.

I beg to differ on my placements of Ships in the Event. They were all right about were they were supposed to be, including that Southern Line of DDs. I doubt that line was much further than 500 meters off in placement position either North or South.

Please remember that I was restricted to placing Ships were they were laid out on the Event Map (exception being Overflow Fairmiles) and I did not have the authority to move them to a different location in the Event.

Actually the positioning of the Ships in the Event went very smoothly for me compared to last year. Everybody worked with me and got to the correct positions.

A large reason why it went so well was because pretty much all of the Naval Players showed up 1 hour before Event Start Time, as they were supposed to, which didn't happen last year.

I was very pleased with the final result of the Naval positioning.

Bad

*AWS (need to see if Rats can turn off that function)

Did you miss what I said to Merc88.? AWS doesn't matter. The Ships have radar. If you think that the Naval Players are not going to see the Stukas coming in or not know what direction they are coming from you're wrong.

Asking the Rats to turn off AWS is just a waste of their time.

Bad

*Knokke should have been launch point for Japanese, it is far enough away not to bother the Navy fleet, but close enough for quick turn around for 2ed wave.

I would agree that the closest Airfield should be used.

Bad

*No clear victory score made, an accurate measure not needed, but some kind of value needed.

There was a clear Victory score system announced by Jammyman.

However I think we should go back to a "point system" like we had in PH I. That way it is actually possible for the Stukas to win by merely keeping from being shot down while scoring hits on the Ships.

That is what made PH I so intense. Both sides cared about dying.

There were no Stukas strafing the harbour after dropping their bombs in PH I because dying meant loss of points. The Stukas dropped and bugged out, just like real life.

And the Stukas actually came pretty close to winning PH I as a result.

Bad

*Some details not clearly resolved.

Really.? Let me tell you that it is dang hard to anticipate every "detail" that can come up.

Ugly

*Sign-up (anticipating participation): Next time make 2 lists, a core list of ships and planes that MUST be filled, then open up to additional positions (players offer a first pick in first list, and if they want an alternate then add that).

*Sign-ups (Player management, aka Crowd Control): Their has to be a better way to manage the signups! Make a plan and stick with it, and if it needs to change, make it clear to everyone. Too much was happening the last few days to explain here.

It is pretty clear to me you have never handled Signups in a Multi-Crew Event.

Once you have List 1 filled, of your 2 Lists, then many will want to transfer to the 2nd List. A complete nightmare from a multi-crew signup point of view. A ton of the Players will not even see the new Assignments and that adds to the nightmare.

We have that type of issue with one list much less two lists.

We need to do just what Jammyman did. Decide how many Ships and mark their positions on a Event Map.

How many Ships and how many of each Type is always the Question.

In PH I we filled all 30 of the Ships and multi-crewed 27 of them.

In PH II we filled all 77 Ships and multi-crewed 55 of those Ships.

In PH III we ended up with 46 Ships and 26 of them multi-crewed.

Once the Ships on the Event Map are filled the only remaining Option is to grant those that wish to signup a Fairmile much along the lines of Jammyman's Overflow Fairmile concept.

Just like with any other Event once it is filled, it is filled.

Ugly

*Having the Navy fighters (H75) waiting in hangers is silly. Historically the fighters that did successfully launch survived after 100 or so did not. Now if we had 100 fighters on the field, then OK, but we had about 10.

It is silly to think we can simulate 100 Fighters on the ground and then pick and choose which of the alotted 10 get to take off.

Personally I don't think there should be any Fighters in the Pearl Harbour Events. Problem solved.

However, given that there were Fighters in the Event Jammyman handled it correctly.

Ugly

*No plan for bofors. Most spawned and located in one area. Need some dedicated trucks.

*I still think needed a few bofors set up at beginning of event.

There will always be Team Players who will get a truck and help others out.

I disagree there should be any Bofors in the Event, even if only 2nd wave. I think it is an unfair advantage against the Stukas. Bear in mind there have been Bofors in all 3 Pearl Harbours.

Bottom line, despite all, it was the BEST PH event!

The location is better, the execution went better, the event direction by Giggadee and Icetwp was TOP FORM! (Way to go guys!!)

As long as we learn from today, PHIV will be a SUPER!

Well done Jammyman!

Icetwp

Edited December 13, 2010 by icetwp

[frantish 19]

After watching the PH-3 film courtesy of Jammyman, I realized something else.

Everyone pretty much went after, you can guess, the USS Arizona and Battleship Row.

Naturally this means overkill for some ships, and leaves others untouched, and those ships become like the fat kid waiting to be picked for dodge ball team.

This needs to be applied in PH-4

*Item 1*

1. The attackers need to divide the target area into zones, and assign a group to one zone each.

2. Each group will target the same zone each wave, but if that zone has lost most (not all) of the targets, then the side leader could direct them to another zone.

3. The squadron that destroyed the most targets in that zone wins.

*Item 2*

Also, the AA gun tows need planning as well.

Most of them where placed in a group far from any ships, IOW towed to the north side where ships where at the shoreline.

Anyone with 2ed accounts, or hard core AA gunner teams will really help.

S!

[jtninja1 0]

Everyone pretty much went after, you can guess, the USS Arizona and Battleship Row.

Naturally this means overkill for some ships, and leaves others untouched, and those ships become like the fat kid waiting to be picked for dodge ball team.

This needs to be applied in PH-4

While I understand the need for the attackers to share the love, being an event where we try to re-enact Pearl Harbor, it was accurate.

On December 7th, the IJN had 3 main targets:

1) US Aircraft Carriers

2) US Battleships

3) US Army planes at the 4 main airfields

When they found out the Carriers would not be the harbor, they focused the attack on Battleship row (the next biggest threat to their empire). One of those Battleships, the Pennsylvania, was in drydock. Both of the destroyers infront of her were destroyed when the dive bombers attacked her. Had the ship not been in drydock at that time, I dont think both ships would have been as badly damaged as they were

[icetwp 0]

This needs to be applied in PH-4

*Item 1*

1. The attackers need to divide the target area into zones, and assign a group to one zone each.

2. Each group will target the same zone each wave, but if that zone has lost most (not all) of the targets, then the side leader could direct them to another zone.

3. The squadron that destroyed the most targets in that zone wins.

*Item 2*

Also, the AA gun tows need planning as well.

Most of them where placed in a group far from any ships, IOW towed to the north side where ships where at the shoreline.

Anyone with 2ed accounts, or hard core AA gunner teams will really help.

I hope you're talking Strategy with those 2 items and not somehow trying to make some of the points Event rules.

Item 1 (all three points) is entirely up to the Air Commander.

Item 2 is entirely up to the Fleet Commander.

I'd comment on Item 1 but I'm not in the business of helping out Air Command.

Ice, Fleet Command

[frantish 19]

I hope you're talking Strategy with those 2 items and not somehow trying to make some of the points Event rules.

Item 1 (all three points) is entirely up to the Air Commander.

Item 2 is entirely up to the Fleet Commander.

I'd comment on Item 1 but I'm not in the business of helping out Air Command.

Ice, Fleet Command

It is very good strategy advice that should make for better event if it was required.

Part of a great event is great planning, don't you agree?

[JAMMYMAN 1]

It is very good strategy advice that should make for better event if it was required.

Part of a great event is great planning, don't you agree?

and on the other hand, part of a Great Event is letting the Players have a Choice in how they play in it and not Dictate everything they are to do

1) you set the equipment set

2) you set a set of Basic Rules

3) you set the victory requirements

4)) then you let them play and how they play will determine the out come of the Event.

[propa 300]

more Propaganda screens ^^

[icetwp 0]

more Propaganda screens ^^

If you come up with more graphical displays like your "Tora Tora Tora" for Events I certainly have no problem using them in key spots.

Icetwp

[ke3p3r 1]

When they found out the Carriers would not be the harbor, they focused the attack on Battleship row (the next biggest threat to their empire). One of those Battleships, the Pennsylvania, was in drydock. Both of the destroyers infront of her were destroyed when the dive bombers attacked her. Had the ship not been in drydock at that time, I dont think both ships would have been as badly damaged as they were

Lol it's funny to know this, because the USS Pennsylvania was the only one ship, in south line, not well lined up with others, and it's that who made me aim and sunk him during the first wave.

Quite the opposite !

I was very impressed by the placement of the ships that follow the plan at millimeter

[icetwp 0]

Lol it's funny to know this, because the USS Pennsylvania was the only one ship, in south line, not well lined up with others, and it's that who made me aim and sunk him during the first wave.

Quite the opposite !

I was very impressed by the placement of the ships that follow the plan at millimeter

Were you a Torp Bomber.?

Ice, Fleet Command

[ke3p3r 1]

Were you a Torp Bomber.?

Yes, under Stugatz lead sir .

[frantish 19]

Were you a Torp Bomber.?

Ice, Fleet Command

Yes, is, look at Jammymovie, you can see from Ke3per coming in, drop torp, follow trop till hit DD.