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reconrego

A new player's view on this game

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Just an idea ...maybe someone suggested it over the years but i dont remember seeing this ... How a about Take the AI out of the Towers and make the towers a unit that you can spawn into and be a Tower operator? Your view would be just like what the AI have now. Kill the tower and kill the player running it and then it needs to be rebuilt before it can be used again.

I don't know if it can be done but if enough players are interested then i can ask the coder team to look into it.

OK, but I want the ability to see thru berms and trees then.

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Just an idea ...maybe someone suggested it over the years but i dont remember seeing this ... How a about Take the AI out of the Towers and make the towers a unit that you can spawn into and be a Tower operator? Your view would be just like what the AI have now. Kill the tower and kill the player running it and then it needs to be rebuilt before it can be used again.

I don't know if it can be done but if enough players are interested then i can ask the coder team to look into it.

Would be interesting :)

My only 'demand' (lol) would be that the occupier of the 'unit' has to be realistic to take out. i.e you can snipe the gunner. He doesn't all of a sudden become invincible to rifle/smg fire whilst still appearing as a squishie

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1- Playerbase: I would like to know what's the peak number of people that play this game at the moment because having played this saturday night I found the gameworld still a bit empty. After going through the different active battles and seeing the number of players on each squadron I started doing some maths and it seemed to me like the maximum number of players playing axis at the time was around 50-60 including airforce and navy. So that should put us at around what 100 players on both allies and axis?

I think if we are getting into 3 AO times that the numbers are higher then you state, at other times the numbers are lower then that, DEFINITELY during 1 AO low times.

A big factor however is the sheer size of the world. It is VERY easy to spawn into a leftover mission, even with the Active Battles Tab, just when the battle is over or it's an odd FB takedown/defense mission. I ended up doing a fairly thorough training of a recruit the other day that showed up at my FB defense, the AOs had just shifted, and if I weren't there to explain what was happening he might have easily concluded the game was empty.

This sort of thing happened even in the era of 1000+ per side, and has a lot to do IMO with the necessity of AOs or something like them.

Big hint- use the command .obj c on your command line to find out where the current attacks and defenses are, then look in the Active Battles Tab for missions to those towns.

Better yet, find out what the text channels are for the side you are playing, you will be hooked straight into other player and high command messages to get where you are needed.

Best- join a squad, they will take care of you and get you right into your kind of action.

2- AI: After an hour playing on a 3-4 men squad attacking what seemed like a completely empty village I ended up capping 3 bases before I ran into an AI MG position. After getting shot at and wounded I was excited to finally find some action after almost 30 minutes of boredom. I open fire on the MG position and realized I wasn't facing a soldier I was actually facing a terminator that absorbed all my bullets and kept on firing at me. With all due respect and sorry for being harsh this is completely ridiculous. It would maybe be ok if this game was still in early development or in beta stage but gentlemen this is 2015.. this game has been out for 14 years. This is one of those things that many of you vets and fanboys might not give a crap about but a new player that comes to this game and sees this is immediately turned off. It completely destroys the realism and immersion that this game otherwise delivers. I see the dev team working on new weapons and so on. But what about this? Is this so hard to fix?

IMO, from the original Rats' perspective, it wasn't something 'to be fixed'.

The Rats designed a combined arms game, that includes infantry, tanks, guns, specialized inf and air (sometimes boats), where each provides it's scissors/rock/paper abilities to cover the other weapons types and achieve success.

So AI is there to slow down an overpop or ninja attack without stopping it (most AI is oriented N-S-E-W, if you approach the town at an angle normally you can get in without trouble).

If you have gun or tank support, they can readily knock the towers down.

Air units, particularly with cannon but also bombs, can destroy them.

Infantry can take them down with grenades, LMGs, grenadiers have rifle grenades to shoot with a little more precision, mortars can take them down, satchel charges from engineers can do the deed as well. So plenty of inf that can destroy AI.

But a sniper, no, a sniper is not a demolitions unit, so you don't get HE. Part of being a team, where you can do precision long range rifle fire but not do say antitank fire or lay down a smoke barrage.

The teamwork that you mentioned as a plus for this game is built deeply into the design of the game. AI is just one facet of the philosophy, and so even if at some point it is removed you will run into a lot more 'but I can't do that when and how I want to' mechanisms.

3- Steam: What is the reason for this game not being on steam? I see a lot of talk on these forums about this being the most important time in WW2ol history for people to sub and re-sub but how do you want people to do that if they're not even aware that this game exists and is still cool to play.

The game was not built to allow for the connectivity, accounts, support structure etc. required for being available through Steam. It was started in 1999 and initially released in 2001, so there was nothing like Steam in existence to even consider as a design goal.

The new Rats have been working towards being able to work through Steam, and that has meant working on the backend of this very proprietary code. They could have rushed it, but that meant potentially breaking the game and ending the run permanently.

But they are getting closer with each new working session on the servers and with the ability to release new material, so I would expect a Steam release sooner rather then later (but that might mean they will be ready in 3 months, maybe a little more then a year, kind of a ready when it's ready thing).

You can count on one thing, they KNOW they have to get to Steam to expand the game, so it is a HIGH priority for them.

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You can count on one thing' date=' they KNOW they have to get to Steam to expand the game, so it is a HIGH priority for them.[/quote']

And, just think of it this way, reconrego... When that happens, YOU will be one of the veterans, helping out the new players and telling war stories. You got here at just the right time.

It's "Getting Better All The Time!" :)

-Irish

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I'd rather fight humans than a computer. That's why most of us play this game.

AI is a crutch as well

Actually you will be fighting less humans. Attackers will get into town easier and faster. Easier to get the camp up .... and we know how much people like that. Poorer fights. With easier town camps it becomes more fight avoidance than fighting.

Following your logic, should the AI be removed everywhere?

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Actually you will be fighting less humans. Attackers will get into town easier and faster. Easier to get the camp up .... and we know how much people like that. Poorer fights. With easier town camps it becomes more fight avoidance than fighting.

Following your logic, should the AI be removed everywhere?

Following what I posted:

Pretty much. I'd be willing to bet most players don't want mg pits and towers. Maybe even atg, but those are no issue as most tanks don't rush a town.

Aaa AI is needed around airfields and factories, but once a.town is under attack, they should go away. The player base should have to spawn Aaa to deal with it. Aaa AI is just too lazor to the head.

Facts

/thread

/can't argue my comments

RIF

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And you are completely wrong about less humans. Camping is going to happen regardless of AI. And if your side can't defend a town, it should be taken. Goes both ways. More fights over a town is what I see. One hour it's axis, then alloed, and so on. Kind of.like, oh I dunno, WW2?

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Actually you will be fighting less humans. Attackers will get into town easier and faster. Easier to get the camp up .... and we know how much people like that. Poorer fights. With easier town camps it becomes more fight avoidance than fighting.

Following your logic, should the AI be removed everywhere?

S! In my opinion, AI is for new players only. As pointed out, the majority of players get to know the placements and how to view them on the map. I remember I used Fogabons maps when I was leading in the field to avoid the AI. The only accomplishment the AI had was slowing down someone. Slowing down by only a few seconds to a player who knows how to figure out AI location. I know I get killed lots by the AI right now, since I am a n00b basically and having to remember the game. I do remember when I did know how to play and how we used the maps to get around them. So the question is, do they really do anything?

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Just an idea ...maybe someone suggested it over the years but i dont remember seeing this ... How a about Take the AI out of the Towers and make the towers a unit that you can spawn into and be a Tower operator? Your view would be just like what the AI have now. Kill the tower and kill the player running it and then it needs to be rebuilt before it can be used again.

I am not sure if I like the idea myself, but I am one with ADHD and am bouncing off the wall. I personally could not spawn into a location that is only 6X6 in an open platform waiting for the other side to snipe me. My first thought is remove the AI and allow it to be climbed. I guess if the town was showing EWS, it could be something that would be useful to spawn in and see how bad the town is being hit.

Of course, I might be the only one with this thinking, but it is my thought.

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Welcome to WWII Online aka Battleground Europe.

1. It's intermissions so stick with it and play some of the campaign to get a better look at the game. Join a squad.

2. The AI are the way they are by design. AIs biggest rap is they can almost always see better than us live players. Maybe someday coders will figure a better way. I think the AI soldier should be damaged by small arms. Unfortunately AI damage is only against the structure so once you take that out the soldier dies. This would actually be a big change right now for the development team to tackle.

3. The development team we have now is relatively new as they have replaced the old guard. They are making changes to the game aside from weapons. First time in years the game has had an update was not too far back. So they are just gathering some speed right now. The game is greenlit but needs a few more changes before STEAM launch.

The fiction of the empty world of WWII online. You have a fair amount of veteran players that still imagine WWII online as being a pure PVP no AI game. They would like to see a larger population have to run all tasks including manning mg towers and pits. Removal of EWS/Radar and for some equipment in every town on the map. The game does look and feel very empty but we all seem to forget why that really is. Why don't we see more AI? Where the heck are all the civilians? Where are the officers in the command posts or bunkers? Well at least we have sheep to keep us company out there or we would go bonkers. One of the main reasons for limitations and designs of AI and all the other stuff that emulates a not so empty world is to keep frame rates and number crunching down so the game can have really large PvP battles.

In order for WWII Online to actually make the evolution to Battleground Europe the idea of the world being empty without us has to bow out to some simulated realism. This has to be balanced so the slippery slope fanatics are satisfied. EWS/Radar simulates the clerks, scouts, spotters and regular town patrol AI that are invisible to us, so we can play the game more smoothly. What would make even more sense would be an EWS highlight of when a CP is occupied by an enemy on the map. That would increase fire fights tremendously. What some of these veterans want to return to are the days of sticking you with a mind numbing job while they go do their thing.

The major concerns right now are the ninja FRUs or the frenetic Battle of the FRUs we have right now; the sensible use and division of High Command; The combining of ToE's and Garrisoned Forces with slower timers all around to slow the frenetic pace of constantly shifting resources and areas of attack and allowing attrition to force new AO availability and allow attrition to produce limited breakouts.

But I digress. So you can see that changing the AI. Which I'm guessing to make the soldier separate from the structure might require quite a bit of coding and is probably lower on the list of improvements or listed for review. Joining a squad is your best bet in enjoying the game as it now is. Don't get me wrong, I love the game for what it is and would never want to see the open world single persistent map and the supply game and brutally realistic fighting to ever leave the game. We just need to tweak the rule sets a bit and make the game more accessible. For now you will find quite a few lulls and the active battle tab helps but only so far as to where and what is going on.

Hang in there it will get better eventually. It is already better than a lot of stuff out there.

Edited by stonecomet

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Just an idea ...maybe someone suggested it over the years but i dont remember seeing this ... How a about Take the AI out of the Towers and make the towers a unit that you can spawn into and be a Tower operator? Your view would be just like what the AI have now. Kill the tower and kill the player running it and then it needs to be rebuilt before it can be used again.

I don't know if it can be done but if enough players are interested then i can ask the coder team to look into it.

I like that idea a lot! Adds variety and realism to the game. suggest it be made available for other ai types also (atg, AAA). Should be able to duck for cover.

Edited by Granit

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Just an idea ...maybe someone suggested it over the years but i dont remember seeing this ... How a about Take the AI out of the Towers and make the towers a unit that you can spawn into and be a Tower operator? Your view would be just like what the AI have now. Kill the tower and kill the player running it and then it needs to be rebuilt before it can be used again.

I don't know if it can be done but if enough players are interested then i can ask the coder team to look into it.

Love that idea, it has my vote!

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I can live with the current accuracy' date=' but just make it realistic to take out. 2-3 rifle rounds to the head would be better than the current 50 rifle rounds or grenades.[/quote']

Yeah the accuracy seemed just fine to me. The MG nest actually missed a lot before it finally wound me and even then I was able to flank it and fix it with small arms fire only to find out it was bulletproof :confused:

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Actually, AI machineguns are not 100% bulletproof... more like 99% bulletproof. I have witnessed plenty of times someone with a LMG emptying an entire magazine/belt into a AI MG and it dying. It takes 50-100 bullets but it will die.

It can be done... but again, only by LMGs who are willing to burn through a lot of ammo. In theory you could kill them with a rifle... after the same amount of shots. The AO might be over before you see any results, however, and a grenade is a lot faster.

Defacto best unit for dealing with AI is the grenadier, of course. Point, shoot, AI dies. Nice & neat. One of the few things grenadiers are still good for.

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Just an idea ...maybe someone suggested it over the years but i dont remember seeing this ... How a about Take the AI out of the Towers and make the towers a unit that you can spawn into and be a Tower operator? Your view would be just like what the AI have now. Kill the tower and kill the player running it and then it needs to be rebuilt before it can be used again.

I don't know if it can be done but if enough players are interested then i can ask the coder team to look into it.

YES!!!! This would be cool.

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Actually, AI machineguns are not 100% bulletproof... more like 99% bulletproof. I have witnessed plenty of times someone with a LMG emptying an entire magazine/belt into a AI MG and it dying. It takes 50-100 bullets but it will die.

It can be done... but again, only by LMGs who are willing to burn through a lot of ammo. In theory you could kill them with a rifle... after the same amount of shots. The AO might be over before you see any results, however, and a grenade is a lot faster.

Defacto best unit for dealing with AI is the grenadier, of course. Point, shoot, AI dies. Nice & neat. One of the few things grenadiers are still good for.

You're missing the point... the issue here is having a game that is focused on realism and delivering an authentic ww2 combat simulation and then you're faced with an MG nest with a robot that takes 50-100 bullets to die. Snatches me right from being immerse in the middle of ww2 straight into the war of the machines from the terminator movies.. In my honest opinion this should've been changed YEARS ago..

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Ai needs to be limited to LoS only. It's pure BS that an ai MG can see through hills, buildings, trees etc. It starts shooting at a certain range whether you are concealed or covered. That is the one thing that bothers me.

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Ai needs to be limited to LoS only. It's pure BS that an ai MG can see through hills' date=' buildings, trees etc. It starts shooting at a certain range whether you are concealed or covered. That is the one thing that bothers me.[/quote']

Pretty much this. I'd settle for this if not complete removal of mg pits and towers

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/signed

As someone who has been killed by an AI MG emplacement while on the other side of (not inside, but totally behind) a wood and sandbag bunker, through the wood, sandbags, and a thick dirt berm, while totally out of LoS of the MG, I agree the AI needs to be fixed.

-Irish

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I find myself agreeing with Heilmittl. I do not want to see the AI disappear entirely. As someone who plays an engineer, part of MY fun is to repair the AI after it has been taken down. It adds another level to the game for those of us who are support players versus direct combat players. That's another aspect of this game, Reconrego, that most games don't really provide.

That said, I AM in favor of changing SOME of the AI out. I believe that the shore and airfield batteries should definitely remain.

AI has been a bone of contention since it was introduced, as I understand. Some folks want a completely human element. Some would actually like to see more. Navy folks for instance, have been asking for AI naval convoys for years. Personally I would like to see more killable AI guards for some map points, such as the bunkers or the forward bases. (Personally I see AI at the FBs as a potential solution to the dislike many have for guarding them.) I have personally seen AI as a potential population solution.

I was one of the guys who made the past suggestion that CRS amend the AI MG pits to allow players to man them. FIXED MANNABLE MACHINE GUNS AND ATG PITS? Yes please! I remember that in the BF series, I LOVED being able to jump on an MG position. All we need is to climb up the ladder and man those guns. It would be awesome. It would allow for two ways to take out AI. Blow the tower completely or shoot the gunner, who could be re4placed if the tower or MG was not destroyed.

On the other hand, I think it would kind of leave a lot of positions empty. The AI positions DO create a challenge. I think that the best of both worlds would be to have a combination... Some AI, but redesign them with a hit box on the gunner to kill it temporarily, so that they CAN be sniped by infantry, and SOME MGs/ATGs that can be manned as well. It would add that element where attackers would never be 100% sure what the exact defenses will be... WILL that MG tower be occupied? and if so will it be a person or an AI?

I personally waited 10 years to join this game and I have since regretted not joining sooner. I LOVE WWII games and have yet to find a better one, especially in regards to the community and the dev team, who are more responsive to the community than any I have ever found.

The population fluctuates, especially in regards to the time zones. Sometimes it is amazing and sometimes it can be slow you never know what exactly to expect...I think that variety adds to the game.

As far as Steam, it WILL get here. There is only ONE chance to make a first impression and the Devs want to get it right.

Stick with the game and give it a decent chance ReconRego. You'll find that in the long run you will love it. Bring along some friends and the expe4rience will just get better.

:D:D:D:D

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