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lynchdot

Disembark in vehicles.

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True multicrew system would be nice, however once a person decides to join the vehicle crew, they should be locked to it. In RL (then and now), Vehicle crews generally don't dismount and join the fight as infantry (mounted/mobile infantry being the large exception)

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If the vehicle owner gets a choice to accept the requesting crew member, (just like we do now, only in the selection screen instead of in the battlefield.) I don't see any problem with it.

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In the original everyone was allowed to disembark. It was the oringal Ca..

They don't have the resources to change basic stuff, there is no way they will be able to do something like allowing crew to separate from the vehicle.

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Basically, there are four states of existence for a character.

As an example:

State one - Outside (infantry)

State two - Outside (passenger - tank or truck)

State three - Inside (passenger - paratroop)

State four - Inside (crewmember)

Since 1) the code is already in place to allow a paratrooper to join/exit the plane while ingame (go from outside to inside and back), and 2) the code is already in place to allow multicrewing, all it would require is a switch on the character to allow any character to join any vehicle as a crewmember rather than just a passenger, as long as there was a place in that vehicle which could accept another crewmember. That being the case, any character could also go from inside to outside with the same switch. There doesn't have to be any animation, just as there isn't now when someone climbs onto a vehicle or a paratrooper gets into or out of the aircraft. The code is even in place to disable any weapons/equipment carried by the character when they become a passenger, as no character riding on a truck or tank, and no one riding in a transport plane, can use any of their weapons.

I learned programming back in the '70s, and I'm not current on any programming languages, but I DO understand flow charts and things such as if/then statements. It's not rocket science.

-Irish

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They don't have the resources to change basic stuff' date=' there is no way they will be able to do something like allowing crew to separate from the vehicle.[/quote']

have you not been around for the past few months? CRS has done leaps and bounds compared to the past few years...

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The answer was "Not going to happen" when asked in the forum or was it a chat server anyway on 6/5/01 somewhere around 2350 hours shortly after the 100' long marijuana plant photo post. People went a bit crazy as the "Launch" via the "PHATT PIPES" approached.....

Edited by boltz

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The answer was "Not going to happen" when asked in the forum or was it a chat server anyway on 6/5/01 somewhere around 2350 hours shortly after the 100' long marijuana plant photo post. People went a bit crazy as the "Launch" via the "PHATT PIPES" approached.....

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Basically, there are four states of existence for a character.

As an example:

State one - Outside (infantry)

State two - Outside (passenger - tank or truck)

State three - Inside (passenger - paratroop)

State four - Inside (crewmember)

Since 1) the code is already in place to allow a paratrooper to join/exit the plane while ingame (go from outside to inside and back), and 2) the code is already in place to allow multicrewing, all it would require is a switch on the character to allow any character to join any vehicle as a crewmember rather than just a passenger, as long as there was a place in that vehicle which could accept another crewmember. That being the case, any character could also go from inside to outside with the same switch. There doesn't have to be any animation, just as there isn't now when someone climbs onto a vehicle or a paratrooper gets into or out of the aircraft. The code is even in place to disable any weapons/equipment carried by the character when they become a passenger, as no character riding on a truck or tank, and no one riding in a transport plane, can use any of their weapons.

I learned programming back in the '70s, and I'm not current on any programming languages, but I DO understand flow charts and things such as if/then statements. It's not rocket science.

-Irish

That's a big switch, I'm willing to bet that if the paratroop "join" code were compared to riding "join" code, it'd be nearly identical.

Allowing an outside character to join the vehicle crew with the intent of assuming a #'d position and interact with vehicle controls/functions is significantly harder to do. It also brings all sorts of scoring questions into play as well....

Outside of that, in RL dismounts generally are not part of the vehicle crew and if vehicle crews have to abandon the vehicle and fight as dismounts something has gone spectacularly wrong.

Personally I'm holding out for a true poly-crew whereas all positions of anything can be manned by players, who can swap amongst themselves while still in the vehicle, replacing anyone that dies (if the station is relatively undamaged)

Edited by b2k

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That's a big switch' date=' I'm willing to bet that if the paratroop "join" code were compared to riding "join" code, it'd be nearly identical.[/quote']

The code probably IS identical with the exception of the location it puts the player's avatar. Inside means damage has to go through the outside of the vehicle first. Riding on the outside doesn't, but leaves in place the "cover" the rider gets from the vehicle itself.

Allowing an outside character to join the vehicle crew with the intent of assuming a #'d position and interact with vehicle controls/functions is significantly harder to do. It also brings all sorts of scoring questions into play as well....
How so? It's the same code you spawn into the game with, when you select a vehicle (tank, truck, aircraft) instead of an infantry weapon. The scoring is already set for the vehicle you're in, otherwise they couldn't have different ranks for infantry/armor, naval, and airforce. All scoring fields already exist on each character. It's just that different ones are switched on, depending on the character's role ingame.

Outside of that, in RL dismounts generally are not part of the vehicle crew and if vehicle crews have to abandon the vehicle and fight as dismounts something has gone spectacularly wrong.
See the movie "Fury," where they fight outside their tank...to the death, but hey. In RL, it wasn't at all uncommon for tankers to hook up with the closest infantry unit, if their tank was disabled and they weren't where it could be picked up and repaired. That would be the only way they'd have ANY chance of making it back to a HQ area. Likewise, downed pilots were hidden by the Resistance and handed over to the nearest friendly unit, or they found one themselves, if possible.

Personally I'm holding out for a true poly-crew whereas all positions of anything can be manned by players, who can swap amongst themselves while still in the vehicle, replacing anyone that dies (if the station is relatively undamaged)
Honestly, from everything I know about computer programming, it's only flipping a switch on a character corresponding to that character's role. As an example.

Set Truck Driver: 0

Set Tank Gunner: 0

Set Tank Driver: 1

Set Infantry: 0

Set Pilot: 0

That's the same thing done when the character spawns into the game. There is no reason that couldn't be changed while the character was in the game.

The very FIRST thing released to the players, in the Star Citizen game, was having hangars the characters could walk around. The ships the players pledged for were in their hangars. They could climb in and out of them and man the controls. There was even a buggy they could climb into and out of, which they could drive around their hangar. Keep in mind this was THE first thing released, in the earliest days of pre-Alpha.

-Irish

Edited by odonovan1

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The very FIRST thing released to the players, in the Star Citizen game, was having hangars the characters could walk around. The ships the players pledged for were in their hangars. They could climb in and out of them and man the controls. There was even a buggy they could climb into and out of, which they could drive around their hangar. Keep in mind this was THE first thing released, in the earliest days of pre-Alpha.

-Irish

That's different than this game in that there (it sounds like I've never played it) the vehicle is a persistent object that players join and unjoin. Here the player IS the vehicle. To change over to what you're talking about would (im pretty sure) require so much of the game mechanisms to be changed that it'd probably be quicker to start over.

Also i'd advise against citing anything hollywood produces when making an argument about tactics. Crews do dismount if they have to, but as i stated above, in general they dont.

Edited by b2k

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have you not been around for the past few months? CRS has done leaps and bounds compared to the past few years...

Don't pay attention to this slime bag

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Here the player IS the vehicle.

Not so, or there couldn't be multi-crew.

Also i'd advise against citing anything hollywood produces when making an argument about tactics. Crews do dismount if they have to, but as i stated above, in general they dont.

What are they supposed to do, sit inside their disabled tank and starve to death? DUH! When their tanks were knocked out, they got out and got to safety. If they were in a frontline area, which was highly likely since their tank had just gotten hit, they fought alongside other soldiers until they could get back to HQ.

Here's an excerpt from "The Battle of Vidouville." It's from "The history Booklet of the 5th Infantry Division," published at Metz, France, in December 1944.

"Then there was Staff Sergeant Roy Alpers, 735th tanker. When is tank was hit twice and set afire by an 88 during the first attack, Alpers organized his tank crew as riflemen and they fought side by side with the 2nd Infantry for the next 36 hours."

'Nuff said...

-Irish

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it may be possible, somehow... but i am sure that it is not so easy or simple to implement, since only crews can use guns in tank, and that is because you take the place on the crew 2 but if you are alone in the tank, you can switch to all crews in the tank... they are not other players but still you can use the crews there. thats totally different code system than hop on the tank or opel and just sit on it...

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Not so' date=' or there couldn't be multi-crew.[/quote']

In this game the player(s) are joined to the vehicle pre-spawn as the vehicle (and limited to certain positions if multi-crew). That is how the code is written. It's also the reason that they cannot separate the crew from the vehicle (dismount). In THIS game you are not a independent avatar that joins/unjoins vehicles. You ARE the tank/truck/plane/whatever (with an attached someone if you multi-crew). It is how the underlying code was written, in the past CRS has gone into great detail on this. Maybe one day they will re-look the issue, but given the coding hours that would be involved with changing the underlying structure of the game to support the change, I'd think it'd just be quicker to re-do the entire game from the ground up.

What are they supposed to do, sit inside their disabled tank and starve to death? DUH! When their tanks were knocked out, they got out and got to safety. If they were in a frontline area, which was highly likely since their tank had just gotten hit, they fought alongside other soldiers until they could get back to HQ.

Here's an excerpt from "The Battle of Vidouville." It's from "The history Booklet of the 5th Infantry Division," published at Metz, France, in December 1944.

"Then there was Staff Sergeant Roy Alpers, 735th tanker. When is tank was hit twice and set afire by an 88 during the first attack, Alpers organized his tank crew as riflemen and they fought side by side with the 2nd Infantry for the next 36 hours."

'Nuff said...

-Irish

Quit putting words in my mouth, go back, re-read my previous posts, don't add any words to, nor take any away, give them a few seconds critical analysis and thought, then you'll notice that I NEVER even implied that crews don't EVER dismount. You will notice in the posts that I said GENERALLY crews don't dismount. I was in armored vehicles for 18 of my 22 years in the Army, unless the vehicle was damaged, or had a mechanical issue, the crews didn't dismount while in action. Thank you for providing a reference to backup my point.

Edited by b2k

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Quit putting words in my mouth' date=' go back, re-read my previous posts, don't add any words to, nor take any away...[/quote']

It's good netiquette to only quote the portions of the person's text to which you're replying. Otherwise, you end up with a confusing wall of text which becomes the reason the abbreviation "TL : DR" was invented.

...give them a few seconds critical analysis and thought, then you'll notice that I NEVER even implied that crews don't EVER dismount. You will notice in the posts that I said GENERALLY crews don't dismount.
Look at what -I- said and you'll find I never claimed you did.

I was in armored vehicles for 18 of my 22 years in the Army, unless the vehicle was damaged, or had a mechanical issue, the crews didn't dismount while in action. Thank you for providing a reference to backup my point.
Thank you for proving MY point, as that was the focus of the discussion...the crew being able to leave their tank and fight independently if the tank was damaged. I don't believe anyone ever claimed crews left intact tanks just to fight as infantry.

HOWEVER, it wasn't at all unusual for surviving, healthy crew members of damaged/destroyed tanks to dismount and fight alongside infantry. That's the reason they were all provided small arms. I belive only the tank commanders were actually issued anything other than a pistol. From some actual WWII vets, I've seen reports that many (if not most) of the other crewmembers magically seemed to acquire things like Thompsons or SMGs taken off enemy soldiers, so they weren't stuck with just their pistols if they had to fight dismounted. I even read a report of a guy who used to carry a cavalry sabre in his tank. His son posted photos to a forum, a number of years ago, showing his dad wearing it slung over his shoulder, standing next to his tank.

Some of the reports I've read, regarding tank action in WWII, gave accounts of approximately 50% casualties when tanks were knocked out of action. That is, for every tank damaged or destroyed, an average of two members of the four-man tank crew were injured or killed. Early on, when the main penetrating damage was from solid steel "hard shot" rounds, it was about 1:1 killed to wounded. Later, when anti tank rounds that penetrated started spraying molten metal inside the crew compartments, that went up to approximately 3:1. So, even when "only" damaged, the crews seldom got off scott free. I guess all our crews ingame are the unlucky ones who have everyone inside injured or killed each time a tank or vehicle is damaged.

-Irish

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