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ou812

Why isn't this game more popular??

165 posts in this topic

1. No game can contend with the poly count this game has for the amount of land. Graphics could possibly be improved however it will come at a price. That is lag.. which I would say is by far more destructive to game play.

2. This game has always had a very steep learning curve AND it has a tutorial that gives step by step instructions... however most people ask, how do I graduate the tutorial so I can play? They want to get in to play, yet DO NOT want to go through the tutorial to learn the basics.

3. If you mean by a one shot kill on AI with a bullet, correct. However if they where that easy, why have AI at all. Mb something to be looked at but you can kill AI with LMGs.

4. Do you mean like exit a plane and get into a tank? How realistic is that if that's what you mean.. but if you mean bailing a tank to get away, how many tankers bail a tank in RL with weapon in hand. I rather spawn into the game in a tank then spawn in and climb up a tank or open a truck door.

5. Recovering vehicles has been discussed, but TBH I really do not want to go Fix your Tiger tank tracks that in RL would take hours. But if recoverable discarded tanks should be by both sides, in otherwords I should be able to recover your Tiger tank, fix and then use it on the allied side also. Oh I can see the abuse there.

6. In RL, a dead loader would cause the tank to leave the battlefield, in the game you can keep shooting. A commander kill would also cause the tank to RTB... how do you suggest this should happen? A removal of the dead crew member animation?

7. The $18 sub is not the only sub avail. There are F2P accounts and $5 accounts... then there are also long term payments that heavily reduce your out of pocket costs. BTW the $18 accounts, help support the F2P players.

8. Be more specific.

9. The damage models are actually very complex, probably some of the most complex ones on the market today.

10. Not sure what you mean... learning to fly? That's just a symptom of how hard it is to learn how to fly.

11. Sound has some issues atm with losing audio, has not been that way prior to the patch. It will be fixed.

12. Use a JS and mouse combo. JS can be purchased for $35

13. No it is not, when I first started playing it was by keyboard. You can fly and shoot down planes with keyboard and mouse.

14. Lag.. I explained lag in Point one.

15. More RAM better computer better connection... I do not have a issue with performance at all until the most recent patches with lag spikes but that has been ironed out for next patch. Get used to things going a little rough after each major patch. Even the RATs beta testing does not and cannot reflect what happens when the large influx of population hits after the patch. Stress testing is difficult with out a few hundred people logging in for a stress test.

16. Squad missions had been apart of the game, however it left the rest of the PB out.. but there are a tone of squad centric tools ingame. Your squad and make a custom channel for chat. You have TS, squad identifications etc... its right in front of you.

17. The physics model ingame is rather good. Im not sure you are aware but the RATs have actually been hired by the US military for sim work. Not only that they have some of the best up to date resources who help them out. Like Scotsman.

18. STOs require a lot of resource and ATM STO (server tracked objects are limited to mortars. If you used it for bullets and shells the server would be overwhelmed.

19. What do you mean? Like power ups? Hell NO. The very best players in game are that good because they are actually that good.

20. What does it actually do for you outside of the mg.34 except burn through ammo faster. That being said, there is a lot of additions we all would like to see, but each one costs the developer around $20k to well over $50k in manpower dollars to develop.

21. What you want is content without paying for it... tell me then how do you expect to get the mg.42 ingame?

22. Ingame stats can be used to see if you killed that ei instantly and if it was that person who kept killing you - no fog of war. Delayed stats are so you don't, all you need to do is go to the stats page on the website to see what you killed.

23. No it does not, you get perks like new weapons available. The ability to make missions. If you mean power ups ... no friggin way. The very best should be killed by the day one player.

4. Actually happened, but not sure how common it was, only knew from wikipedia that jagdtiger crews bailed out too soon. I would say the incentive was to keep the trained crew so that they don't need to be replaced. Maybe in game, this can be reflected by a shorter timer of replacing a tank compared to complete destruction?

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4. Actually happened' date=' but not sure how common it was, only knew from wikipedia that jagdtiger crews bailed out too soon. I would say the incentive was to keep the trained crew so that they don't need to be replaced. Maybe in game, this can be reflected by a shorter timer of replacing a tank compared to complete destruction?[/quote']

SOP the tankers would destroy the abandoned tank before leaving if they had the time. generaly speaking when a tank had a penetration the tankers bailed even if the tank was still operable simply because they feared the follow up shot. It was immediate, they got out fast as possible. If thier lines crossed over the tank it was recovered, if not they would try and sneak in with explosives to destroy it so it didn't fall into enemy hands. Don't get me wrong, I'm not opposed to tank recovery, but if you do, what do you limit it too? Tracked vehicles? I think a recovered vehicle should have half time re supply timer. Blown engine full timer yet would be considered over stock. If ever it was emplimented. Also at bail, the option should be on the table for the baiters to destroy the tank, or risk it being recovered and used by the enemy. That being said, the feature would open up serious griefing ability.

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Stankyus I think just about every one of pbveteran's complaints are legitimate. I think you are disconnected from the market and the competition these days, back in 2005 BE was unmatched in scale, scope, complexity and even population(for a single instance FPS) but it's 2016 now.

The game has narrowed itself down to an almost unbelievably tiny demographic instead of pursuing the wider milsim community or the hardcore PvP MMO communities out there. The focus of this game over the last several years hasn't been new tanks or planes or infantry mechanics, but the high command system which attracts...who? You see the results today. Veteran players don't want to return and BE can't compete for new players.

I do not disregard vets opinions. I read them and look for logic and reason. Some vets are so side bias they cannot see the Forrest through the trees. I do reject your thesis however. If these are complaints of a larger Pb vets, they would not be so passionate about THIS game. Just about everything you mentioned is already available elsewhere. So they are here, not because of everything that was listed. They are here because this game is completely different. It's harder, every map is different, every battle is different. It was also never intended to be anything more than a niche game. It has survived longer than any other run of the mill war sim because of it being a niche game. The Pb average age is close to 30 years old. You won't find COD players playing the game for 15 years. We have some players who started at 12yrs old and are still here in their late 20s. This game is a silent legend.

Players numbers a slowly increasing again. IMHO believe with some of the new changes headed and the fact some real soul searching going on ATM about what made the game so great, while filtering out the mistakes this game could see us surpassing the 15k sub Mark.

I will say this right up front, DOC made mistakes, some were not his mistakes, they were his job to implement. However what ever decisions that were made he supported them publicaly, then worked to fix those mistakes the best way he could. That IMHO shows a great maturity in dealing with corporate goals and Pb wishes. He was also very good at balancing the game and being as historically accurate as possible while keeping things fun.. What I saw with DOC was his awareness that hearing the Pb, and doing what the Pb wants has the potential to destroy the game faster then anything. Then making the hard choice of saying no.

We have Xoom now heading the show, he has some skill sets DOC was not as strong at. DOC was the philosopher. I know Xoom, he is always asking Pb opinion and listening. This is a great strength. He is the communicator, he is also good at digging deep into past success while balancing new content. That has to be very tough to do, but probably exciting. While I see many strengths he has that are resonating well, IMHO his weakness is abandoning the strengths DOC had that also made the game great. I have voiced my objections not to be a d!ck, and prob not so well either, but to say to you all that some of your choices will have more of a negative impact then a good one in regards to equipment role out. With all due respect Xoom, I mean this with the greatest intensions, it comes across as a lack of the maturity that DOC brought. If CRS Could melt DOC and Xoom together utilizing their strengths, this game would explode exponentially. They would make an incredible team. Did I mention the Pb growing again? So they are doing something right.. Not something, I mentioned it already... As far as mechanic direction, IMHO this last patch game mechanic was a VERY BIG step in the right direction. It has reinvigorated my hopes for this game.

Edited by stankyus

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I was wondering when you'd respond.

I actually left the Axis side and tried to help the Allies during the Breakfast Clubs reign of terror.

I recall and can verify that.

I dont understand what GHC/OKW new or old has to do with anything.

Some of your complaints don't make sense to the AHC history I know and lived, especially the power mad assertions. So I have to assume most of it was Axis experience.

I would like to follow my squadleader rather than someone who is setting AO's and herding cattle.

You can. You just don't get free reign to swoop down on an entirely undefended town and beat on the few ragged defenders that show up.

I do however want to see attack become easier, once pop neutrality is in, and again squad setup interruption needs to be addressed (which NAO does, it's precisely intended to adjust the balance between player ops and HC strategy).

Ive read your proposal and unfortunately it will never come to fruition.

Pop Neutrality, or NAO? PN is an absolute necessity to do NAO.

I doubt that any of my solutions will be exactly implemented as I describe them. But then again, most of the Rats did not get to implement what they wanted, they did 'what the game needed' and that was at odds with one or another preferences.

What WILL happen is that a lot of the concerns I bring up and reasons the Rats did what they did in the past still obtain, and that the problems will have to be addressed even if not exactly how I think they should be.

Given your constant drumbeat for 'take me back to 2003' seems to me you don't pay attention to a lot of the issues I bring up, but that doesn't mean they aren't there and that the Rats can afford to ignore them.

I dont think you can honestly count thousands of people who left just like i cant say i know thousands of squadmembers that unsubbed. It sounds good but is just lips flapping without proof.

Without hard Rat numbers we are indeed just exchanging opionin. I feel pretty confident though in my assessment given the hordes of unsubs that occurred on the Allied side in the 'good old days'.

What I do know for a fact is that the Rats said their accounts were up for ToEs not down.

Whatever the case may be, the game is hard to endure in its current stage. The population is low, the rules are complicated and the learning curve is high.

Squads are really the only thing that can save this niche game.

Adding more complex rules and limiting players will be the cause of its death.

Complexity is NOT a problem, consider Star Citizen, a game that gets more complex all the time and it hasn't even been released yet. 100s of thousands are eating it up.

What is a problem is speed of squads, the game fighting organization, easy fast wiki help ingame, voice comms, tools for org, a need to get away from the spawn castle paradigm, and a clear communication about what the game offers that others don't.

2003 isn't the answer. Neither was 2008. 2017 is.

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One thing that would definitly help especially about the new players woul be rendering the progression easier. Or at least less difficult.

In the air section for example. You only get points for killing an ennemy planes, bombing and stuff.

But what is Air combat before everything else?

Hitting the god damn plane in front of you.

Hitting the ennemy plane alone should worth some points , 2 or 3. Depending on how many you hit. It would make the progression much easier. Especially for new players joining on late games.

There is also other features that could be great.

The possibilities to customise your vehicle. Place a official decal there and there. A number. Some victory mark, etc.

That alone make for a good part of the succes of games like War Thunder.

There is so much stuff about this game that are great. The only thing that will never change is the graphic. So if we can't act on the graphic. Make the rest so good it doesn't really matter except for the graphic whore. And they are NOT that many.

Edited by kuronyra

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SOP the tankers would destroy the abandoned tank before leaving if they had the time. generaly speaking when a tank had a penetration the tankers bailed even if the tank was still operable simply because they feared the follow up shot. It was immediate' date=' they got out fast as possible. If thier lines crossed over the tank it was recovered, if not they would try and sneak in with explosives to destroy it so it didn't fall into enemy hands. Don't get me wrong, I'm not opposed to tank recovery, but if you do, what do you limit it too? Tracked vehicles? I think a recovered vehicle should have half time re supply timer. Blown engine full timer yet would be considered over stock. If ever it was emplimented. Also at bail, the option should be on the table for the baiters to destroy the tank, or risk it being recovered and used by the enemy. That being said, the feature would open up serious griefing ability.[/quote']

I think half timer should be enough. However, to be able to be used by the enemy requires the enemy to have the parts or the means to repair it, so maybe it should be limited to track shots? I have no idea how griefing can be prevented effectively without taking up much manpower or require a lot of coding. Need to make it so the punishment is severe enough to deter or make it so it won't affect the serious players, but still need to be able to attract new players who are not so serious players yet.

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-snip-

I truly think that more encouragement and ways for players to earn XP can never be a bad thing.

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I would like to start by saying that I absolutely love this game. I find it very challenging, and I enjoy a good challenge. I'm only offering my opinion in the hope of improving the game and acquiring and keeping new players. I think this game is heading in the right direction, and I most certainly could not do a better job myself.

Here is my biggest gripe about the game currently:

Incomplete Wiki help pages. I have only looked through the Air Force Guides mostly, but there are several links with nothing on the pages. I believe this makes the game look incomplete and unpolished to new players. Here is an example:

https://wiki.wwiionline.com/view/Understanding_The_Range_Indicator

This particular page should tell about the halos around aircraft and accurately determining how far away they are. I haven't been able to find this information anywhere in the help pages (I have been able to figure it out through trial and error and talking with other players).

This is only one example.

I believe that 1st impressions are very important. Broken links and incomplete help pages don't look good to new players. Especially in a game this difficult with such a steep learning curve.

Again, I'm only trying to improve the game and offer constructive criticism. Thanks for all the hard work and the hours of fun while making new friends.

Edited by vesticus

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I truly think that more encouragement and ways for players to earn XP can never be a bad thing.

We NEED an answer from Rats about that.

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I think half timer should be enough. However' date=' to be able to be used by the enemy requires the enemy to have the parts or the means to repair it, so maybe it should be limited to track shots? I have no idea how griefing can be prevented effectively without taking up much manpower or require a lot of coding. Need to make it so the punishment is severe enough to deter or make it so it won't affect the serious players, but still need to be able to attract new players who are not so serious players yet.[/quote']

Well. I would agree about the parts issue, but as we know there is a solution or formula out there o make it work. MB it's a roll of the dice after the recovery to have a successful capture, MB a 15% chance of success. If you capture two of the same tank then one keeping one! the percentage goes up to a 65%, but can not get both because one is used for parts.

Serial griefers in the past have gotten the ban stick, but this would be a whole new level. It would be a form of theft. All it would take is two players and a second account. Not only would I grief your supply of tigers, I would steal a few in the process.

Edited by stankyus

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I do reject your thesis however. If these are complaints of a larger Pb vets' date=' they would not be so passionate about THIS game. Just about everything you mentioned is already available elsewhere. So they are here, not because of everything that was listed. They are here because this game is completely different. It's harder, every map is different, every battle is different. It was also never intended to be anything more than a niche game. It has survived longer than any other run of the mill war sim because of it being a niche game. [/quote']

Niche wargames have active player bases in the tens of thousands. The reason why this game isn't more popular is because it started with a niche market then deliberately and drastically reduced the number of players that it could appeal to with the high command system. The target demographic got smaller not larger. It remains small. A return to 15k-ish subscriptions is only possible if the demo miraculously gets larger or if the game can appeal to it's pre-HC demo.

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First those are facts & we are discussing why this game is not more popular, apologies or putting in perspective will not change the fact that this game in many aspects is behind what most games offer.. Sure we have no WW2 Open World game but we have H&G/RO2 and WT(probably the one who stole more pilots & tankers from this game, actually I found many ex-WW2ol players)

No game can contend with the poly count this game has for the amount of land. Graphics could possibly be improved however it will come at a price. That is lag.. which I would say is by far more destructive to game play

That's legacy this could be procedurally generated at a fraction of the cost, the game is not fully multi-Core optimized, LoDs can be improved and I'm not 100% certain but I think if you are not looking behind you everything is being drawn

This game has always had a very steep learning curve AND it has a tutorial that gives step by step instructions, however most people ask, how do I graduate the tutorial so I can play?

Most of those guys are vets I myself have asked that question many times, there are other forms of tutorials like you can have better info on the loading screen, pop up messages that teach how to use equipment the first time you spawn it, the UI could underline and give more feedback on what you are doing..

Also try comparing WW2ol Tutorial with H&G tutorial(guess which is fun & looks awesome)

If you mean by a one shot kill on AI with a bullet, correct. However if they where that easy, why have AI at all. Mb something to be looked at but you can kill AI with LMGs.

There shouldn't be AI LMGs and AI Atgs on the game, they are completely out of place, people complain FRUs are unrealistic but this is just completely beyond that. AI is only making new players look down on this game & drive them away by not understanding how they where shot behind bushes while annoying 1% of the time veterans when they are not paying attention

Do you mean like exit a plane and get into a tank? How realistic is that if that's what you mean...

Don't entirely understand what you are trying to say but the RO system is OK you spawn as a tank, you can exit and enter another tank or vehicle, while infantry can only use transports/guns.

But this would be particularly helpful while in a truck/ATG or AA to deal with an incoming infantry or exit when you knew you had no chance against an opponent like go prone behind ATG when underfire.

Recovering vehicles has been discussed, but TBH I really do not want to go Fix your Tiger tank tracks that in RL would take hours...

First this is a game.. a system similar to WT Simulator battles you can repair everything but probably with a 5mins max timer, having a truck or HT near you could speed the repairs. The game looses players when you drive a tank for 30mins and one of your tracks is blown off and the rest of the tank is completely fine/your gunner is dead but you still have a functional & manned tank.

In RL, a dead loader would cause the tank to leave the battlefield, in the game you can keep shooting. A commander kill would also cause the tank to RTB... how do you suggest this should happen? A removal of the dead crew member animation?

First this is game, second this thread is about why the game is not more popular not about discussing features. But a bare-bone system could simply be pressing the key of the dead crew member getting a loading bar/timer to simulate the movement on tank then allow you to control it, switching back to the previous crew re-add the timer.

The $18 sub is not the only sub avail. There are F2P accounts and $5 accounts... then there are also long term payments that heavily reduce your out of pocket costs. BTW the $18 accounts, help support the F2P players.

Please look at the competition most people don't play a game to support it, they play cuz they like it. I'm current playing Warthunder on SB/RB as tanker & pilot, tanking in that game is already better and realistic with more toys plus I also get to shot down aircraft with my Wirbelwind and blow tanks with my Stuka & Rockets :D , tanking in this game is a love/hate relationship, on WT you are guarantee satisfaction just without PvP infantry.

Be more specific.

You can't go over a small wall or berm has infantry like you do in games like RO2 , COD , ARMA, BF

The damage models are actually very complex, probably some of the most complex ones on the market today.

The most complex and realistic now is warthunder, WW2ol only simulates AP & HE rounds(no APCR/APHE), there is no armor fatigue, receiving 1 and 10000 rounds in the same place is the same, rounds can bounce inside the tank, in Warthunder you can see exactly the effective armor thickness according to angle and the position of each crew member and component, you can also choose to have less rounds so it makes you harder to be one-shotted(talking about PZ IV :P), you can degun, lock turret/vertical traverse, destroy the transmission but above all you can repair the tank also when you die you see the simulation of the kill shot something that helps debugging and clearing the fog of war of what just happen

Not sure what you mean... learning to fly? That's just a symptom of how hard it is to learn how to fly.

Are you using irony?

Using a tank or **** is not just pressing W and switching gears far from it..

The flying game is at real simulator level(not comparable with tanking, infantry or navy) most people don't have time for that and just want to have fun but with some depth, trust me this is the most untapped potential in WW2ol. Play warthunder RB to understand the trade off they made

Use a JS and mouse combo. JS can be purchased for $35

A good game will never say you use, please spend more money together with the overprice sub & WW2ol already broke one joystick I bought.

No it is not, when I first started playing it was by keyboard. You can fly and shoot down planes with keyboard and mouse.

Play warthunder RB, compare

Lag.. I explained lag in Point one.

Lag has nothing to do with polycount mostly server location

Squad missions had been apart of the game, however it left the rest of the PB out.. but there are a tone of squad centric tools ingame. Your squad and make a custom channel for chat. You have TS, squad identifications etc

Play other games, compare

The physics model ingame is rather good. Im not sure you are aware but the RATs have actually been hired by the US military for sim work.

Jesus! you have no idea about physics in this game(Collide with anything in this game other than infantry) Hired? or there were in a contest? The demonstration I saw was about the flying and damage models not ground physics.

STOs require a lot of resource If you used it for bullets and shells the server would be overwhelmed.

It's not about WW2ol it's about if others games do it better and they do. We are talking why this game isn't more popular.

What do you mean? Like power ups? Hell NO. The very best players in game are that good because they are actually that good.

Talking Map, a good strategy game would be like Hearts of Iron 2/3/4.. This is basically move flag from A to B wait for resupply and move it again.

What does it actually do for you outside of the mg.34 except burn through ammo faster... each one costs the developer around $20k to well over $50k in manpower dollars to develop.

Those numbers do not make sense each price for modeling a weapon and texturing should be between 200-500$ and for implementing in game should be less than that.

MG42 it's probably the most or the second most iconic German Weapon of WW2.. This was a friend of mine that complaint about it.(the ingame MG34 is more like an MG42, the mg 34 was very accurate and have a semi-auto fire trigger)

What you want is content without paying for it... tell me then how do you expect to get the mg.42 ingame?

That's hypocrisy & kinda offensive. Please play other games and compare

Ingame stats can be used to see if you killed that ei instantly and if it was that person who kept killing you - no fog of war. all you need to do is go to the stats page on the website to see what you killed.

Play other games and compare, Why should I need to open a browser and insert my login information or persona if I'm already log in the game

No it does not, you get perks like new weapons available. The ability to make missions.

Last time I reach max rank.. there were many ranks that had no new unlocks or features.

You know in WW2, Britain was facing a problem with an increase in bombers being shot down, so they decided to fit armor on the places that had the most damaged, still the bombers were being lost and there was no change. So they hired a "smart guy" he pointed out that the bombers that were not returning weren't those that had damage on those places but on places that would never get any damage so they instead reinforce those,

soon after survivability increased.

I mention this just to say that asking players who keep playing this game or do not play other games might be as futile as reinforcement non-essential parts on a bomber, real value feedback comes from someone who can take a step back and see the big picture.

Edited by pbveteran

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A good game will never say you use' date=' please spend more money together with the overprice sub & WW2ol already broke one joystick I bought.[/quote']

A SIMULATION game will make it necessary for you to have appropriate controllers for the game. People who play airline sims have control yokes, throttle quadrants, and rudder pedals. Racing sim players have steering wheels, gearshifts, and pedals. Et cetera, et cetera. If you don't have the appropriate controller, you are at a disadvantage. Sorry if you don't like it, but that's life.

Oh, and this game didn't break your joystick, YOU DID. Practice with a light hand on the controls and your equipment will last many years. Slam it around and...well, you already found out what happens.

Lag has nothing to do with polycount mostly server location

Have you ever heard of "minimum system requirements?" Yes, you can have server lag, but your system can also bottleneck and cause SERIOUS game lag at your end.

Play other games, compare

Been there. Done that. I've played computer games since LONG before there was an internet and online games since before there was a WorldWide Web or graphics on the internet.

You have other issues, but it's too much for me to go into in one sitting.

-Irish

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First those are facts & we are discussing why this game is not more popular, apologies or putting in perspective will not change the fact that this game in many aspects is behind what most games offer.. Sure we have no WW2 Open World game but we have H&G/RO2 and WT(probably the one who stole more pilots & tankers from this game, actually I found many ex-WW2ol players)

That's legacy this could be procedurally generated at a fraction of the cost, the game is not fully multi-Core optimized, LoDs can be improved and I'm not 100% certain but I think if you are not looking behind you everything is being drawn

Most of those guys are vets I myself have asked that question many times, there are other forms of tutorials like you can have better info on the loading screen, pop up messages that teach how to use equipment the first time you spawn it, the UI could underline and give more feedback on what you are doing..

Also try comparing WW2ol Tutorial with H&G tutorial(guess which is fun & looks awesome)

There shouldn't be AI LMGs and AI Atgs on the game, they are completely out of place, people complain FRUs are unrealistic but this is just completely beyond that. AI is only making new players look down on this game & drive them away by not understanding how they where shot behind bushes while annoying 1% of the time veterans when they are not paying attention

Don't entirely understand what you are trying to say but the RO system is OK you spawn as a tank, you can exit and enter another tank or vehicle, while infantry can only use transports/guns.

But this would be particularly helpful while in a truck/ATG or AA to deal with an incoming infantry or exit when you knew you had no chance against an opponent like go prone behind ATG when underfire.

First this is a game.. a system similar to WT Simulator battles you can repair everything but probably with a 5mins max timer, having a truck or HT near you could speed the repairs. The game looses players when you drive a tank for 30mins and one of your tracks is blown off and the rest of the tank is completely fine/your gunner is dead but you still have a functional & manned tank.

First this is game, second this thread is about why the game is not more popular not about discussing features. But a bare-bone system could simply be pressing the key of the dead crew member getting a loading bar/timer to simulate the movement on tank then allow you to control it, switching back to the previous crew re-add the timer.

Please look at the competition most people don't play a game to support it, they play cuz they like it. I'm current playing Warthunder on SB/RB as tanker & pilot, tanking in that game is already better and realistic with more toys plus I also get to shot down aircraft with my Wirbelwind and blow tanks with my Stuka & Rockets :D , tanking in this game is a love/hate relationship, on WT you are guarantee satisfaction just without PvP infantry.

You can't go over a small wall or berm has infantry like you do in games like RO2 , COD , ARMA, BF

The most complex and realistic now is warthunder, WW2ol only simulates AP & HE rounds(no APCR/APHE), there is no armor fatigue, receiving 1 and 10000 rounds in the same place is the same, rounds can bounce inside the tank, in Warthunder you can see exactly the effective armor thickness according to angle and the position of each crew member and component, you can also choose to have less rounds so it makes you harder to be one-shotted(talking about PZ IV :P), you can degun, lock turret/vertical traverse, destroy the transmission but above all you can repair the tank also when you die you see the simulation of the kill shot something that helps debugging and clearing the fog of war of what just happen

Are you using irony?

Using a tank or **** is not just pressing W and switching gears far from it..

The flying game is at real simulator level(not comparable with tanking, infantry or navy) most people don't have time for that and just want to have fun but with some depth, trust me this is the most untapped potential in WW2ol. Play warthunder RB to understand the trade off they made

A good game will never say you use, please spend more money together with the overprice sub & WW2ol already broke one joystick I bought.

Play warthunder RB, compare

Lag has nothing to do with polycount mostly server location

Play other games, compare

Jesus! you have no idea about physics in this game(Collide with anything in this game other than infantry) Hired? or there were in a contest? The demonstration I saw was about the flying and damage models not ground physics.

It's not about WW2ol it's about if others games do it better and they do. We are talking why this game isn't more popular.

Talking Map, a good strategy game would be like Hearts of Iron 2/3/4.. This is basically move flag from A to B wait for resupply and move it again.

Those numbers do not make sense each price for modeling a weapon and texturing should be between 200-500$ and for implementing in game should be less than that.

MG42 it's probably the most or the second most iconic German Weapon of WW2.. This was a friend of mine that complaint about it.(the ingame MG34 is more like an MG42, the mg 34 was very accurate and have a semi-auto fire trigger)

That's hypocrisy & kinda offensive. Please play other games and compare

Play other games and compare, Why should I need to open a browser and insert my login information or persona if I'm already log in the game

Last time I reach max rank.. there were many ranks that had no new unlocks or features.

You know in WW2, Britain was facing a problem with an increase in bombers being shot down, so they decided to fit armor on the places that had the most damaged, still the bombers were being lost and there was no change. So they hired a "smart guy" he pointed out that the bombers that were not returning weren't those that had damage on those places but on places that would never get any damage so they instead reinforce those,

soon after survivability increased.

I mention this just to say that asking players who keep playing this game or do not play other games might be as futile as reinforcement non-essential parts on a bomber, real value feedback comes from someone who can take a step back and see the big picture.

I just don't get the complaints your getting I guess.

All the things you described for the most part... describe other games on the market. I'm here and not there because I like THIS game way more then the shoebox shooter. If I wanted that, I'd go play WOT. We have had a lot of players leave the game for WOT because of frus, TO&E, and the RPATS. Several are back.. Would you plaY WOT for 15years?

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This is an incredibly squadcentric game it's just that there's only one squad allowed to do anything' date=' it's run by the company, it's led by people that filled out some form instead of natural leaders and it's called HC. Big old squads could make someone feel left out but they were player made and voluntary, HC is coded in to the game so they can force you to go somewhere else or even keep you from spawning in to the game. HC has more power than the largest megasquad leader and you can't really get more exclusive than requiring company approval to be in it. Not having HC or competent HC online is infinitely worse that any imbalance made between player squads.[/quote']

Near as I can tell the only people 'not allowed' to be HC are people who have demonstrated an unwillingness to work with others, make moves that are detrimental to the game (such as moving all brigades off the line) and/or really are power mad. HCs themselves have a veto on players joining, but again it's about behavior and working with others, and most 'known' trouble people usually get another shot at it if they act reasonably.

There are 36 army brigades, 6 navy brigades, and 16 air brigades ingame. There is no shortage of places and spawnlists to spawn. A far more limiting factor is the AO, which depending on player action and numbers may be hopping around quite a bit or 'go stale' without fresh supply if it is not moved.

So you have this squad but unlike megasquads of old or typical MMO guilds, HC operates to the explicit detriment of every other player in the game. It's not some niche playstyle(say paratrooper drops or tank rushing towns) there's just no way to accommodate a guy that wants to play general without giving him the ability to coerce other players directly or indirectly. Coercion does not work in a recreation service and that's why both large hardcore squads as well as more casual and new players aren't in the game, and also why you can't even fill your own ranks of HC. So I think it's time to stop pretending that HC is protecting the fun of all players when it's obviously just satisfying a handful and driving everyone else off.

There is no way a squadcentric OR HC resource game or anything else can protect all players' fun.

It's not to the detriment of every player though, that's a ridiculous statement. What would be a fair statement is that the kind of skill in an HC and squad leader set that can work together in their respective responsibilities minus org tools is a small percentage of the players involved and at the smaller pop levels we have are often not all in place.

Seen it over and over with recent patches and campaigns of interest, the player count goes up and this old girl of a game can still kick up her heels.

I think the 'cycle of suck' is a far bigger unsub issue, of which the HC/squad/AO issues are only a part.

To get back to the OP's question if a player gets beyond the graphics, the performance, the bugs, the price and the population they'll quickly see they can't do anything in this game without HC. By design the game has limited itself to a demographic of a few dozen people(those that legitimately enjoy being HC) and that's why it struggles with popularity while a wide variety of niche war games have thousands of players.

When my squad joined, we EXPECTED to be common soldiers led by HCs, that was what we signed up for. We only got into HC after we found it lacking on the Allied side.

I believe that's the difference to our approach in a nutshell- people showing up expecting to be Patton without any Ike direction and no one wanting to take orders when orders that look stupid are so milsim it hurts when we EXPECTED that experience, and when we found HC lacking we went in and worked on it rather then sniping on the outside.

I do agree that there are issues, of which the current HC/squad relation to game tools is one, but going Tribal Raiders of France is not the solution.

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Kilemall what you seem to be overlooking is that very few want to be in HC or work under HC. The demo that enjoys HC is small. The rest of the MMO market does not consist of toxic people unsuited to lead, in fact it's full of good leaders that don't want to be in HC and don't play this game.

The game company cannot give you the "high commander experience" without also giving you arbitrary authority over other players. So like it or not you do operate to the detriment of all other players that log and believe in voluntary cooperation, which again is most of the MMO market.

I don't know why you mention that you and your squad wanted the HC system, that doesn't address the fact that the demographic that wants such a system is incredibly small. HC is the defining aspect of the game now, unfortunately rather than increasing it's appeal it's the main reason why it's not more popular.

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Kilemall what you seem to be overlooking is that very few want to be in HC or work under HC. The demo that enjoys HC is small. The rest of the MMO market does not consist of toxic people unsuited to lead, in fact it's full of good leaders that don't want to be in HC and don't play this game.

The game company cannot give you the "high commander experience" without also giving you arbitrary authority over other players. So like it or not you do operate to the detriment of all other players that log and believe in voluntary cooperation, which again is most of the MMO market.

I don't know why you mention that you and your squad wanted the HC system, that doesn't address the fact that the demographic that wants such a system is incredibly small. HC is the defining aspect of the game now, unfortunately rather than increasing it's appeal it's the main reason why it's not more popular.

IMO you have an agenda, not an answer to the OP.

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Kilemall what you seem to be overlooking is that very few want to be in HC or work under HC. The demo that enjoys HC is small. The rest of the MMO market does not consist of toxic people unsuited to lead, in fact it's full of good leaders that don't want to be in HC and don't play this game.

The game company cannot give you the "high commander experience" without also giving you arbitrary authority over other players. So like it or not you do operate to the detriment of all other players that log and believe in voluntary cooperation, which again is most of the MMO market.

I don't know why you mention that you and your squad wanted the HC system, that doesn't address the fact that the demographic that wants such a system is incredibly small. HC is the defining aspect of the game now, unfortunately rather than increasing it's appeal it's the main reason why it's not more popular.

I would agree that the HC system in it's current form is a major blocker of capturing some of our market share. CRS probably agrees.

CRS is aware that the HC system needs some help. They have said so many times. The company can go in a couple of directions. They could eliminate HC and return to garrisoned supply but then we as the player base will have to spend quite a bit of time moving equipment ourselves when supply issues arise. At least that is the way I think it used to work. Probably there are modified versions of the garrisoned system that might work.

Another way is to give HC better tools for the job. A very clear view of the battlefield and all the elements under their control and their conditions. Along with easy to use commands for the elements they are working with. In addition, looking at the strategic layer and making changes that take some of the workload off and create more strategic decision regarding the placement and movement of supply and where the forces on their side should be attacking. Mostly, from my point of view, this could be done by increasing the cooldown and movement timers so that the strategic players have to anticipate more and have to make moves and decisions with more foresight and planning. This would probably on it's own do a lot to decrease brigade stacking as it would take longer for brigades to travel and once reaching their destination have to stay put for a while before the next move. It wouldn't take much and you would not want it to be too severe so that all battles turn into attrition victories and shorten some of these great long battles for towns we have been seeing. I used to think they needed to be very severe. I'm not sure what the magic numbers are but something CRS could consider tweaking some. These changes would go a long way in increasing the HC ranks from my point of view.

From my experience with probably one of our biggest direct competitors H&G a WWII MMO with a significant strategic layer, I see a lot of complaints about how the map was handled and some of the same gripes we see here. They have taken the strategic layer to a different level though. Generals even have a say in what and how many elements are in their assault teams. Of course they also pick where the next battle will be. So in certain contexts they AO towns and have even more control than our strategic layer has. In the end the total freedom of the H&G MMO comes from mainly the strategic layer. For the player base it turns into a box shooter on a limited number of maps creating the illusion of total freedom. You still have to work together and funnel your forces to capture points in order to win the map. In the end, it turns into a version of COD. I get bored with it quickly and the actual fighting in certain ways is just plain silly. From my point of view.

I suspect H&G development team looked at BGE and said we can take certain elements of what CRS has going and modify it for greater market appeal. They have in some ways and they are enjoying some of the benefits of capturing a fair amount COD type players, some from this game. In one respect we are comparing apples to oranges and that is the financial model. We have a FTP account, which should really be called a Demo Account. H&G is a true blue FTP game in that you can just grind it out if you want and eventually get to where the pay to win players have gotten.

I call H&G one of our closest competitors. And in certain respects this is true. The more you look at and compare the games though, the more you realize that they are really very different games and we are going after a different demographic that yes is smaller but can be very dedicated to the game. Eve Online has similar elements in it's financial model and it is an MMO with large squads or corporations, but it is not an FPS and while you can make some comparisons, there is no strategic layer that I can remember from the limited time I've spent playing it. So it is a rough comparison at best. Planetside 2 has a lot of similar elements but it's a true FTP and pay to win and there is no real strategic layer. It somehow also turns into a more COD like experience in a more open world or larger box. I get pretty bored with it quickly as well.

I find toxic leaders in other MMOs as well, so my experience is that you will find good and bad leaders in games where player based leadership exists. We always try and paint the picture prettier for our own case. That is human nature, but that does not make picture necessarily true. It's certainly not all roses out there in the rest of the MMO market.

CRS are aware that the HC system has issues and prevents some players from returning to the game but have to work under the constraints of their resources and their knowledge of the code. Which the new CRS inherited. So if you are an old vet out there frustrated about the HC system. Sub up and CRS will be better able to make some of those changes you want. Something they would do right now if they could.

Part of the reason the game is less popular is because BGE does go after a smaller market share when it stays true to it's roots and tries to be, quite successfully, like no other military simulation MMO. There is plenty of market share for a game like this. It is a smaller demographic but one which CRS has yet to fully tap. If I did not truly believe that I would not be a Builder.

Edited by stonecomet

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IMO you have an agenda' date=' not an answer to the OP.[/quote']

OP asked why there weren't more people playing, my explanation is that the HC gameplay appeals to a very small demographic. It's a simple explanation and I think it's demonstrable, as this game used to have a sizeable playerbase despite the bugs, graphics, bad UI, lack of advertising etc. that other posters cite as primary reasons.

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OP asked why there weren't more people playing' date=' my explanation is that the HC gameplay appeals to a very small demographic. It's a simple explanation and I think it's demonstrable, as this game used to have a sizeable playerbase despite the bugs, graphics, bad UI, lack of advertising etc. that other posters cite as primary reasons.[/quote']

I think many other issues were in play.

There certainly is a segment that do not like HC and is a significant number, that is undeniable, I told Killer face to face in 2003 that there would be losses with any moving of the dog bowl away from Tribal Raiders of France, BEFORE I ever joined HC.

However, lack of new toys for years until just this year, graphics, pay model, lack of attention to retention model, the related sense of isolation for the new player whether to squad or HC comms, bugs, disastrous launch/patches that were made worse by promotion before the problems were worked out, slow dev of features to meet game needs, interruption to being able to setup/org by different mechanisms, and a wholly nonexistent PR budget/visibility to potential customers are just as important and collectively have IMO cost far more subs as a group then HC alone.

Which is why I think you have an agenda rather then a problem solving POV.

Edited by Kilemall

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I think many other issues were in play.

However, lack of new toys for years until just this year, graphics, pay model, lack of attention to retention model, the related sense of isolation for the new player whether to squad or HC comms, bugs, disastrous launch/patches that were made worse by promotion before the problems were worked out, slow dev of features to meet game needs, interruption to being able to setup/org by different mechanisms, and a wholly nonexistent PR budget/visibility to potential customers are just as important and collectively have IMO cost far more subs as a group then HC alone.

Which is why I think you have an agenda rather then a problem solving POV.

Your so right in this and I stop play after this patch after 15 years.

Regards

Axeinc

Edited by axesniper

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However, lack of new toys for years until just this year, graphics, pay model, lack of attention to retention model, the related sense of isolation for the new player whether to squad or HC comms, bugs, disastrous launch/patches that were made worse by promotion before the problems were worked out, slow dev of features to meet game needs, interruption to being able to setup/org by different mechanisms, and a wholly nonexistent PR budget/visibility to potential customers are just as important and collectively have IMO cost far more subs as a group then HC alone.

Amen! I was definitely disappointed when I joined HC with the system and how it was implemented.

But I really doubt anyone ever left the game because of it they just left HC..

Edited by pbveteran

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Amen! I was definitely disappointed when I joined HC with the system and how it was implemented.

But I really doubt anyone ever left the game because of it they just left HC..

No pb none has done that :) and HC is doing fine on both sides and CRS is make it hard for them. (Was in HC for many years)

Axeinc

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Why isn't this game more popular?

It is all about the advertising. When marketed right even a turd covered in glitter will sell like hot cakes. No advertising... no consumers.

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It is all about the advertising. When marketed right even a turd covered in glitter will sell like hot cakes. No advertising... no consumers.

disagree. You get a bunch of people buying into a glitter ridden turd and they'll never come back and not have a good word to say about it in the gaming world.

I have just recently resubbed and I mistakenly didn't read the forums before I did so. A mistake I won't repeat. This version is the worst experience I've had with this game since I first started back in version 1.09

I've cancelled already but I'm on a three month tour. If 1.35 doesn't blow my socks off. I won't be back.

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