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ou812

Why isn't this game more popular??

165 posts in this topic

Why isn't BGE more popular...

 

BGE as it is right now has only 3 rather distinct advantages over everyone and everything else out there:

1. Map size -

Unfortunately only about like 10% of the actual Map here is being played on if that - the rest is just something to get across quickly if possible to get to those 10% (5 even if that?) being fought over ie Towns - also it looks like crap TBH, still in Year 2000 resolution, no topographical overlays and all that - as long as its huge, huh...

 

2. Strategic Layer -

Only thing left once you get sick of looking at Speed Trees and Bushes disguising as ETs or vice versa - soon to be castrated due to "popular" demand...

 

3. 24/7 online - one Server, one Map, no arcade crap -

The ONE thing BGE has going for it today without contest, yet...

 

Everything else being drummed about over and over, "Physics" and whatnot, is obsolete and/or just plain broken by todays standards and has been for, at least, the 10 yrs i've been here by now.

Wanna talk visuals?

Srysly, Can-of-Worms alert...i still remember downloading BGE in 2005 once and upon spawning into the training server for the first time, coming from AAO back then, my first impression was "Crap, vid card just broke..." before i realized it actually looked that bad, and that was 2005 !

Sounds? ...

Ricochets & Effects in general?...

Damage models?...

Vehicle models & variety?...

Ballistics?...

etc...

Since the other wildly popular WW2 game out there has been mentioned already by Gaijin - it does everything better x 100 - if they (Gaijin) EVER get the bright idea to come up w a consistent 24/7 huge arse map and turn off the arcade sht on that map, all they need is to add infantry and BGE is ded for good, unfortunately, ESPECIALLY with those BGE Subscription price tags.

 

No more Indie campaigns for bollocks content ie Rifles and such please and go for the Core here ie a brand new Engine for good - might be more successful even if run for x months, considering the fact that everything added to that clunky, brick-like Zombie of an engine being utilized, still, is bound to fail harder than a Ford Pinto Facelift & reintroduction...

 

Re. "Not enough advertising" - IF you do MORe advertising for it IN its curent state - you will lose...it's like inviting people to check out the proverbial "Train Wreck" while asking them to pay for it...don't

 

See, i care enough to reply here instead of just giving the finger mentally and moving on...i r good peoples

 

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23 hours ago, gsc4free said:

Why isn't BGE more popular...

 

BGE as it is right now has only 3 rather distinct advantages over everyone and everything else out there:

1. Map size -

Unfortunately only about like 10% of the actual Map here is being played on if that - the rest is just something to get across quickly if possible to get to those 10% (5 even if that?) being fought over ie Towns - also it looks like crap TBH, still in Year 2000 resolution, no topographical overlays and all that - as long as its huge, huh...

 

2. Strategic Layer -

Only thing left once you get sick of looking at Speed Trees and Bushes disguising as ETs or vice versa - soon to be castrated due to "popular" demand...

 

3. 24/7 online - one Server, one Map, no arcade crap -

The ONE thing BGE has going for it today without contest, yet...

 

Everything else being drummed about over and over, "Physics" and whatnot, is obsolete and/or just plain broken by todays standards and has been for, at least, the 10 yrs i've been here by now.

Wanna talk visuals?

Srysly, Can-of-Worms alert...i still remember downloading BGE in 2005 once and upon spawning into the training server for the first time, coming from AAO back then, my first impression was "Crap, vid card just broke..." before i realized it actually looked that bad, and that was 2005 !

Sounds? ...

Ricochets & Effects in general?...

Damage models?...

Vehicle models & variety?...

Ballistics?...

etc...

Since the other wildly popular WW2 game out there has been mentioned already by Gaijin - it does everything better x 100 - if they (Gaijin) EVER get the bright idea to come up w a consistent 24/7 huge arse map and turn off the arcade sht on that map, all they need is to add infantry and BGE is ded for good, unfortunately, ESPECIALLY with those BGE Subscription price tags.

 

No more Indie campaigns for bollocks content ie Rifles and such please and go for the Core here ie a brand new Engine for good - might be more successful even if run for x months, considering the fact that everything added to that clunky, brick-like Zombie of an engine being utilized, still, is bound to fail harder than a Ford Pinto Facelift & reintroduction...

 

Re. "Not enough advertising" - IF you do MORe advertising for it IN its curent state - you will lose...it's like inviting people to check out the proverbial "Train Wreck" while asking them to pay for it...don't

 

See, i care enough to reply here instead of just giving the finger mentally and moving on...i r good peoples

 

This as quite negative and you missed a lot of important notes of information.  First the RATS are not a huge or big company like DICE or Activision, they're only a small group of people keeping this epic game alive.  They can only do so much for their sizae and because of their size, like I said, only so much can be done. 

 

Second, the game map will grow with time as it always has.  It takes a lot of time to get the map to grow, hell I even see the map in the future of this game with all of France, Germany, England, Neatherlands, Denmark, Belgium, Switzerland, Italy and a good part of the mederterainian in the future of this game showing and being playable, so again I would say give it time.  This game, out of all I played ( played warthunder, battlefield, ect) Really gives you that large scale battle experience and this game has MORE THEN ENOUGH potenetial to give all of us a real world war 2 experience ( meaning all of us liberating paris, or conquering Germany, having our own operation market garden, ect)  The rat needs time

 

Third and finally this game is getting ready for a steam release unless you forgot about that.  This shows that the rats really care about the game were they want it to explode and be succuessful.   They put A LOT of hard work into this game and the game is Epic and Awesome in everyway ( ty to all rats for your hard work :) ).  Once this game releases on steam it will never be the same,  Matter of fact we will get the full wwII online experience.  This game is not going anywhere when it already has proven to all of us that this game actually HAS a future and that the game factually will get a whole lot better in the future.  All I say give it time, the steam release is not to far off :)

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Anyway - question, hypothetical or not, was "Why isnt this game more popular?":

1. Visuals

2. Broken / Incomplete / non-existent physics

2.1 In conjunction w 2. hit register and damage modelling for everything from inf to tanks to planes

3. Price Tags

 

It has nothing to do w "learning curve" or such, people like a challenge, for example

 

And so forth...

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As a reminder, while passions are appreciated, there are a few who seem to persistently push the envelope.  If you're incapable of posting in a non-belittling/inflammatory way, that permission may get revoked.  

 

That is all 

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On 9/12/2016 at 7:59 AM, gsc4free said:

Re. "Not enough advertising" - IF you do MORe advertising for it IN its curent state - you will lose...it's like inviting people to check out the proverbial "Train Wreck" while asking them to pay for it...don't

Most of the people left here think that the game is great, and that it just needs more players. I've seen them say that the game just needs advertising since at least 2010 when the population really started to go down due to continuous problems with the HC and brigade systems. The devs agree with them and so there's massive resistance to even the most minor of changes and a naive optimism about exposing the game to new players.

 

Going back to a town-based supply system (finally) is the one major change that they seem to be pursuing and it's only because the company can't continue to substitute in personnel at 2:00 a.m. to move flags. . . and I still see people complain that TOE should be given another chance and that a Steam launch will fix all it's current problems. There are a lot of fundamentals in the game that can be fixed without major code changes, but they wont' be touched because the consensus here is that everything is great.

 

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8 hours ago, gsc4free said:

Anyway - question, hypothetical or not, was "Why isnt this game more popular?":

1. Visuals

2. Broken / Incomplete / non-existent physics

2.1 In conjunction w 2. hit register and damage modelling for everything from inf to tanks to planes

3. Price Tags

 

It has nothing to do w "learning curve" or such, people like a challenge, for example

 

And so forth...

########## PERSONAL OPINION POST ######## PERSONAL OPINION POST ########## PERSONAL OPINION POST ####################

1) not sure, while initially off-putting I've run across many who are able to look past the graphics.

2) I'd also include re-doing some models to include internal stressors and figure out a way to model the concussion effects that HE would produce in real life (especially from near miss bombs) - though this honestly is a long, long way off.  

3)$4.99 is cheaper than a beer at a club/restaurant.  Though maybe unit specific subscription plans could get some to stay (say for example 'all inf' where a player only gets infantry units (in addition to whatever the f2p are)).   

As towards the learning curve, as a host squad I can attest that there are many players who do not want the learning curve that goes with this game.  Rehabbing the tutorial system to make it more robust and expansive may be a viable option.  While people do like a challange, they also detest (at least initially) other aspects of the 'learning curve'  Things like the game models having components rather than an overall 'point system' style of destruction.  

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21 minutes ago, B2K said:

########## PERSONAL OPINION POST ######## PERSONAL OPINION POST ########## PERSONAL OPINION POST ####################

1) not sure, while initially off-putting I've run across many who are able to look past the graphics.

2) I'd also include re-doing some models to include internal stressors and figure out a way to model the concussion effects that HE would produce in real life (especially from near miss bombs) - though this honestly is a long, long way off.  

3)$4.99 is cheaper than a beer at a club/restaurant.  Though maybe unit specific subscription plans could get some to stay (say for example 'all inf' where a player only gets infantry units (in addition to whatever the f2p are)).   

As towards the learning curve, as a host squad I can attest that there are many players who do not want the learning curve that goes with this game.  Rehabbing the tutorial system to make it more robust and expansive may be a viable option.  While people do like a challange, they also detest (at least initially) other aspects of the 'learning curve'  Things like the game models having components rather than an overall 'point system' style of destruction.  

1) Most of the models themselves are not that bad. The building really are not that bad. It is the underlying terrain that needs looked at on the graphics front. I know that is a massive under taking however. 

2) This is your biggest problem. I don't understand how bombs had concussion effects in 2002 but are terrible now. I will never completely understand CRS's decision to allow players to get any air unit at any time while turning bombs into over rated fire crackers. It was an embarassment to a game that prides itself on realism.  

I too would like to see internal stress added to air frames. Twin engine bombers look silly at times. 

3) See number 2. If number 2 gets fixed I would pay for two accounts again in a heart beat. I understand game mechanics to make this workable as a game. However, at some point CRS went off the reservation where realism is concerned. At that point it's just COD with a big map and crappy graphics. That's a losing formula. It's the brutal realism that made the game unique and interesting. 

4) Town supply should fix some of the learning curve. New players struggle to find the action in the brigade system. It should be as simple as click on the town you want to fight in and go. That's how it originally was and it easy. The only learning curve was in the field. 

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47 minutes ago, B2K said:

As towards the learning curve, as a host squad I can attest that there are many players who do not want the learning curve that goes with this game.  Rehabbing the tutorial system to make it more robust and expansive may be a viable option.  While people do like a challange, they also detest (at least initially) other aspects of the 'learning curve'  Things like the game models having components rather than an overall 'point system' style of destruction.  

That's because most of the learning curve in this game is due to not knowing the bugs and quirks of the game engine, the UI, how counter intuitive most gameplay is and the unreasonably high skill floor to accomplish basic tasks rather than other players being better. A much-improved tutorial would do good but it won't clue new players in on the all the exploits that are in routine use now. For instance to get a battle going you coast for as far as you can with your truck's engine off, set up a FRU to the least-important depot, stealth capture it and then use the FRU to warp in to town. If a new player does the textbook thing and sets up a FRU and attacks the spawn they'll get crushed 99% of the time and be absolutely miserable.

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Wanna hear an opinion from noob?  I have it. To play this game, newbe have to:

1. Be patient. You do not know maps. You do not know rules. You just picked up a rifle and jumped in. What your first experience will be?  Spawned.  Nobody around.  You walked there, you walked here. You tried to chat. It is just quiet here. 

Ok, you understood that filled line means kind of level of population. You entered another battle. Shots. Explosions. Engine sounds. You do not know what to do, you do not have any task.  Ok, lets move out and try to shot a bad guy.  You dead.  Respawned, few steps out, dead.  Repeat according you patience.

Ok, you tried to communicate using chat. At least you should know that the task is to capture a "flag buildings" or defend them. You found a map, you trying to do something meaningful. You even killed a coupe of guys because you made a random shot in their direction.  You kinda interested.

But then first bad guy with SMG. Then another one. It is very hard, but you know you can kill them. Just stay calm and patient. And then you've seen a tank. And one more. And another one. You can not do anything with them, but your team also looks useless.

2. And this is where you understood that team play and coordination is very important in kind a real battle. But there are few little things. English is very popular, but there a lot of people who doesn't know a word in English. And they will go away, because their patience is not an ocean.  Another thing is playing time. Am adult and have a time for myself only when my family go to sleep. But this time I can't use my mic. I mean I can, but this is very hard.

As a result, I still have my patience. I see the potential, I love this game play. But I still do not understand a lot of thing. And I have no idea what to ask about, because I do not know what I do not know. But few friends of mine left me alone with this game to figure out all tricks and tips.

 

So, be shorter. You need a clear, simple game play for casuals entered the game just to look at it. In ideal world newbies should be able to enter the game, pick a battle and have clear understanding what they have to do. Without forcing them to read websites, wikis, forums, etc. They will go there only after they decide to stay. Not before. Populate the game with casuals, increase the online players, and every time of the year we will have interesting battles happening. Which will bring more casuals. And some will stay and become veterans.

And where are game reviewers? Try to google any video about how to use a particular tank, or how to be an engineer. There will be zero links. I ate a lot of [censored] from Tigers last week, so I went to google any clues what can I do with them without carrying a 500 lbs bomb or something. Nothing, except a 5 yrs old video about engineer exploding 13 tigers in a row. Same about other stuff. This is weird.

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8 hours ago, xpamobhuk said:

Wanna hear an opinion from noob?  I have it. To play this game, newbe have to:

1. Be patient. You do not know maps. You do not know rules. You just picked up a rifle and jumped in. What your first experience will be?  Spawned.  Nobody around.  You walked there, you walked here. You tried to chat. It is just quiet here. 

Ok, you understood that filled line means kind of level of population. You entered another battle. Shots. Explosions. Engine sounds. You do not know what to do, you do not have any task.  Ok, lets move out and try to shot a bad guy.  You dead.  Respawned, few steps out, dead.  Repeat according you patience.

Ok, you tried to communicate using chat. At least you should know that the task is to capture a "flag buildings" or defend them. You found a map, you trying to do something meaningful. You even killed a coupe of guys because you made a random shot in their direction.  You kinda interested.

But then first bad guy with SMG. Then another one. It is very hard, but you know you can kill them. Just stay calm and patient. And then you've seen a tank. And one more. And another one. You can not do anything with them, but your team also looks useless.

2. And this is where you understood that team play and coordination is very important in kind a real battle. But there are few little things. English is very popular, but there a lot of people who doesn't know a word in English. And they will go away, because their patience is not an ocean.  Another thing is playing time. Am adult and have a time for myself only when my family go to sleep. But this time I can't use my mic. I mean I can, but this is very hard.

As a result, I still have my patience. I see the potential, I love this game play. But I still do not understand a lot of thing. And I have no idea what to ask about, because I do not know what I do not know. But few friends of mine left me alone with this game to figure out all tricks and tips.

 

So, be shorter. You need a clear, simple game play for casuals entered the game just to look at it. In ideal world newbies should be able to enter the game, pick a battle and have clear understanding what they have to do. Without forcing them to read websites, wikis, forums, etc. They will go there only after they decide to stay. Not before. Populate the game with casuals, increase the online players, and every time of the year we will have interesting battles happening. Which will bring more casuals. And some will stay and become veterans.

And where are game reviewers? Try to google any video about how to use a particular tank, or how to be an engineer. There will be zero links. I ate a lot of [censored] from Tigers last week, so I went to google any clues what can I do with them without carrying a 500 lbs bomb or something. Nothing, except a 5 yrs old video about engineer exploding 13 tigers in a row. Same about other stuff. This is weird.

My thoughts:

1. Communication from new players is difficult. There used to be an in-game tutorial where players walk you through the basics. This has been dis-manned (and in my opinion) needs refined for the very reasons of your post. Several players have posted youtube video's of basic game mechanics, and can be found in a thread in this "General Discussion" forum titled "Must read for new players", but as you stated it's only in English. 

  • My advise to new players is learn how to use the chat in game. When typing in local chat (hitting enter - then message) ONLY broadcasts to players within 100m. Use the F1, F2 chat labeled "mission" or "target" chat. These are the means of communicating with ALL players on your "mission" or the entire "target" (or town/objective) players. I rarely see a call for help from a new player go unanswered, if it is the chat was sent in the "local" chat and not seen by the players. The "Side" chat will communicate to all players on your side (Allied or Axis - whichever you are playing) no matter what town or mission they are playing.
  • Additionally, you can type .hc or .hcl to see who the leaders of your side are at that time. Private message them by typing .m (name) and ask for help/direction. If you play Allied and I am on that "hc" list, hit "enter" then type .m chimm  I will be more than happy to help you :)

2. As yourself, I too have a family. I respect their wishes and don't use Team Speak. Utilizing the chat bar is how I communicate 99%.

WWII Battleground Europe is a very complex game (to say the least), of which seasoned players (of many years) still struggle to grasp some game mechanics/strategy - there are things I am still learning about and have played since 2004. This is a VERY unique game that utilizes strategy and first person shooter (obviously). Anyone can go into the field in a "blaze of glory", but the strategy is learned through time. Be patient.

Best advise is to join a squad and observe/learn from how others play. Don't be afraid to ask questions, we all have been "new" players and know how frustrating it can be.

Hope this helps.

S!

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With the news release from Rat HQ today regarding the press towards Steam, I was caught off guard when they mentioned the possibility of multiple campaigns running simultaneously because player base would be too high for the server. While I'm all for lots more players this would concern me.  It would be cool however if the other server were running a different theatre (ie Mediterranean etc.), but with the campaign times synced to each other and supply/outcomes affected each other. 

Of course this is dreaming but I guess I am trying to find ways to preserve what I find to be one of the best parts of this game... Single Persistant Map.

 

Manhattan

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On 9/23/2016 at 0:35 PM, manhattan said:

With the news release from Rat HQ today regarding the press towards Steam, I was caught off guard when they mentioned the possibility of multiple campaigns running simultaneously because player base would be too high for the server. While I'm all for lots more players this would concern me.  It would be cool however if the other server were running a different theatre (ie Mediterranean etc.), but with the campaign times synced to each other and supply/outcomes affected each other. 

Of course this is dreaming but I guess I am trying to find ways to preserve what I find to be one of the best parts of this game... Single Persistant Map.

 

Manhattan

If they need multiple campaigns it means you have multiple 6+ AO campaigns going on. Not a serious problem imo.
Would only be a problem if the timezones on 1 of the servers are imbalanced or when you need 1,5 server where 1 is the boring 2 Ao one.

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On ‎9‎/‎23‎/‎2016 at 0:35 PM, manhattan said:

With the news release from Rat HQ today regarding the press towards Steam, I was caught off guard when they mentioned the possibility of multiple campaigns running simultaneously because player base would be too high for the server. While I'm all for lots more players this would concern me.  It would be cool however if the other server were running a different theatre (ie Mediterranean etc.), but with the campaign times synced to each other and supply/outcomes affected each other. 

Of course this is dreaming but I guess I am trying to find ways to preserve what I find to be one of the best parts of this game... Single Persistant Map.

 

Manhattan

it wont be a problem, plus this game has to change in some way and the new idea they are going to implement  could actually help it.  They need this idea to control the masses ( amount of players coming in when steam releases) and so far it's the only reliable good one.   I love the new idea and will help gameplay a lot.  Also with thousands of players there might be more then just 6 AOs lol

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This is just an opinion from a new player, so don't hate but...

I think the biggest turn off of this game is mainly the outdated monthly subscription model. Its an old school model of payment which had a time but has now gave way to free to play or Freemium. Either go full free to play with a tedious grind with the option to pay to through the grind along with some historical camos for vehicles and stuff to buy like Warthunder, or  just charge a flat price for the full game. Either of these along with a Steam release would probably revive the game to its former glory. I've showed videos of this awesome game to some friends who are regular PC gamers and all of them showed interest and downloaded immediately, but they soon lost interest because most things are locked behind a subscription fee. And its not because they're cheapskates or are cod kids, (all regularly play Arma, AA, Red Orchestra ect.) but because none of them could justify spending $180 to get the full experience for a 15 year old game. You can say its just 15 dollars a month, why not bite the bullet? Well that $180 dollars a year that can get 3 AAA games on release or a buttload of any other games on steam, and the 60 dollar a year plan still feels like paying full price for a demo. I understand the devs need to make money but there's better ways. Games like  Everquest II, Lord of the Rings Online, The Elder Scrolls Online, and Star Wars: The Old Republic all have dropped their subscription method in favor of Free to Play types and games that haven't like World of Warcraft and EVE are suffering massive player drops. Subscriptions might be bringing in consistent money from the veterans who love this game, but it will never bring in the population this game needs to thrive. That's just my 2 cents 

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On 9/24/2016 at 1:59 AM, chimm said:

When typing in local chat (hitting enter - then message) ONLY broadcasts to players within 100m.

OMFG!  Thanks a lot, mate. This is the best example of usability issues. Why "local" chat is called "local" then, but not "100m" one??  This would make it so obvious.

Can other side see hat I'm chatting "locally" then if they are withing 100m radius?

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Just remembered one other frustrating thing for me.

I mentioned already that I like to google some stuff about the game I liked. You need to know rules for the game you playing.  Then where can I find a description for guns and armors penetrations, for example?  Where can I find the damage models of the vehicle in the game?  I simply using common sense now and my real life experience (I've being in a military service few years), but we are in game. So how accurately this game represents the reality?

I've seen the Opel coming. Can I shot out its engine using a rifle? Petrol tank? Driver?  Or it's a single hit box model, so there is no difference where to shot?  Google does not have an answer.

Same for tanks. I feel some module based damage model. But where can I find the detailed description?  Where are the test results for different guns angles and penetrations?

I'd say this information should be presented right in the game. But I haven't found it. At least brief description for armor thickness, angles, distances, penetrations. But even wiki doesn't have it.

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On 9/24/2016 at 1:59 AM, chimm said:

WWII Battleground Europe is a very complex game (to say the least), of which seasoned players (of many years) still struggle to grasp some game mechanics/strategy - there are things I am still learning about and have played since 2004. This is a VERY unique game that utilizes strategy and first person shooter (obviously). Anyone can go into the field in a "blaze of glory", but the strategy is learned through time. Be patient.

I'd say the best rule for a good game is "easy to start, hard to master". This game is really close to that rule. But it is so hard to find something, that tell (or better show) about the game rules a bit more.

 

Just remembered one other frustrating thing for me.

I mentioned already that I like to google some stuff about the game I liked. You need to know rules for the game you playing.  Then where can I find a description for guns and armors penetrations, for example?  Where can I find the damage models of the vehicle in the game?  I simply using common sense now and my real life experience (I've being in a military service few years), but we are in game. So how accurately this game represents the reality?

I've seen the Opel coming. Can I shot out its engine using a rifle? Petrol tank? Driver?  Or it's a single hit box model, so there is no difference where to shot?  Google does not have an answer.

Same for tanks. I feel some module based damage model. But where can I find the detailed description?  Where are the test results for different guns angles and penetrations?

I'd say this information should be presented right in the game. But I haven't found it. At least brief description for armor thickness, angles, distances, penetrations. But even wiki doesn't have it.

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57 minutes ago, xpamobhuk said:

I'd say the best rule for a good game is "easy to start, hard to master". This game is really close to that rule. But it is so hard to find something, that tell (or better show) about the game rules a bit more.

 

Just remembered one other frustrating thing for me.

I mentioned already that I like to google some stuff about the game I liked. You need to know rules for the game you playing.  Then where can I find a description for guns and armors penetrations, for example?  Where can I find the damage models of the vehicle in the game?  I simply using common sense now and my real life experience (I've being in a military service few years), but we are in game. So how accurately this game represents the reality?

I've seen the Opel coming. Can I shot out its engine using a rifle? Petrol tank? Driver?  Or it's a single hit box model, so there is no difference where to shot?  Google does not have an answer.

Same for tanks. I feel some module based damage model. But where can I find the detailed description?  Where are the test results for different guns angles and penetrations?

I'd say this information should be presented right in the game. But I haven't found it. At least brief description for armor thickness, angles, distances, penetrations. But even wiki doesn't have it.

this.  some of this info, but not enough and not up to date is available on the wiki, as are various sapper, atr and atg guides plus many (but mostly out of date) video guides/clips re atgs, aaa, etc. but not tons of technical info like many other games - neither player created info nor supplied by CRS.

younger gamers are used to lots of documentation, lots of in depth reviews and tons and tons of player created comments, tests, reccos, how to videos,  technical info and so on. for some reason it just doesn't exist or isn't coherently available and up to date for WWII OL.  so for new players who like the game, its frustrating as they will or would do the work to find/read/understand and test out info to belay the learning curve (beyond just joining a squad) but the info just isn't there to give a sense of understanding and confidence upon entering the game in the first day/week/months. 

as to your question about local chat: 

1. yes. pressing enter send your chat out to about 100m+  in clear for those on your side and garbled 'fake english or fake german'  for any enemy players - this chat appears in one's chat bar in white text with a speech bubble icon before it. 

2. there is also a /yell (or .yell) command with enter that sends local chat (think the default is orangey-pinky colour) out to about 300m; both for friends in clear and garbled for enemy

 

 

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3 hours ago, xpamobhuk said:

OMFG!  Thanks a lot, mate. This is the best example of usability issues. Why "local" chat is called "local" then, but not "100m" one??  This would make it so obvious.

Can other side see hat I'm chatting "locally" then if they are withing 100m radius?

This is a video I made on the training server. Both persona's are mine. The video shows the distance for local chat and (by accident) what a "firebug" is and how to fix it. 

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Thanks a lot @chimm, but I don't think this thread is for q&a. We can not answer all questions for newbies anyway. I'm just highlighting potential issues for game popularity.

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On 9/25/2016 at 8:08 PM, knucks said:

This is just an opinion from a new player, so don't hate but...

I think the biggest turn off of this game is mainly the outdated monthly subscription model. Its an old school model of payment which had a time but has now gave way to free to play or Freemium. Either go full free to play with a tedious grind with the option to pay to through the grind along with some historical camos for vehicles and stuff to buy like Warthunder, or  just charge a flat price for the full game. Either of these along with a Steam release would probably revive the game to its former glory. I've showed videos of this awesome game to some friends who are regular PC gamers and all of them showed interest and downloaded immediately, but they soon lost interest because most things are locked behind a subscription fee. And its not because they're cheapskates or are cod kids, (all regularly play Arma, AA, Red Orchestra ect.) but because none of them could justify spending $180 to get the full experience for a 15 year old game. You can say its just 15 dollars a month, why not bite the bullet? Well that $180 dollars a year that can get 3 AAA games on release or a buttload of any other games on steam, and the 60 dollar a year plan still feels like paying full price for a demo. I understand the devs need to make money but there's better ways. Games like  Everquest II, Lord of the Rings Online, The Elder Scrolls Online, and Star Wars: The Old Republic all have dropped their subscription method in favor of Free to Play types and games that haven't like World of Warcraft and EVE are suffering massive player drops. Subscriptions might be bringing in consistent money from the veterans who love this game, but it will never bring in the population this game needs to thrive. That's just my 2 cents 

I think you really hit the nail on the head with this post. Even WoW has an option for dedicated players to pay their subscription fee with in-game currency now.

 

The fact is the game is old and many people (myself included) are going to have a hard time justifying spending $18 a month, let alone committing to an entire year. Even my all-time favorite games I get bored of after a few months. Even with the starter account I'm currently using I feel like I don't get all that much. Sure it works great currently with a fresh campaign but I really worry about how useful I'm going to be a few weeks down the line when we're in the later years in the war and the crummy 2 pounder guns I can use will be effectively useless against German armour.

If you want my opinion this game is just lacking certain features that might make the game feel more use friendly. Things like in game VOIP with directional audio. We shouldn't have to rely on a third party program like Teamspeak to have to communicate effectively in game. Small things like that make the game less accessible to new players. Honestly in 2016 any modern shooter will have ingame VOIP.

Not being able to enter/exit vehicles and anti-tank guns. This is a relic from the past that honestly needs to go. It makes the game feel clunky.

 

So while I've had a lot of fun today with the game and overall really love the concept and idea of WWII online, I worry about how useful I'll be with the $5 plan a couple weeks down the line.

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15 hours ago, firepower said:

 

Thanks, I'm glad someone else agrees. 

This game definitely shows its age in a lot of aspects, and lack of any sort of in game audio communication is one of them. This game would benefit immensely from a VOIP system to breath some life into the battlefield and give new and old players a more direct line with each other mid fight. TS works, but its another layer to peel in an already complicated game.

I do find it awkward that you can't exit vehicles. Though I see some potential grief hazzards, I'd like to see the the way your pilot can bail out of an aircraft and parachute down; and instead of being RTB you can run around with a sidearm until you die or RTB like a normal INF would and have that applied to all vehicles because currently if you are critically damaged in any way you're kinda screwed and have no option but to respawn. In real life if your tank was shot in the [censored] whats left of you and your crew would be diving face first into the nearest (and hopefully softest) pile of dirt nearest to them. I don't know how difficult that would be to implement but it would be a nice feature to see.

 

I highly recommend going with the sub. although you're still limited with the $5 dollar plan, you'll have a lot more fun and be much much more useful even in the later stages of the campaign. A big thing you get is the ability to take out armor as and infantryman which is always a stress as a free player. Plus you'll be supporting the game in this very crucial point of development before the steam release :) 

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If you could spawn directly into a para plane in flight and then jump your trooper out that would make a nice mobile fru. That would take a lot of the boredom out of para missions and put it back on par time to action wise with the ground frus.

 

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On ‎9‎/‎13‎/‎2016 at 8:30 AM, gsc4free said:

Anyway - question, hypothetical or not, was "Why isnt this game more popular?":

1. Visuals

2. Broken / Incomplete / non-existent physics

2.1 In conjunction w 2. hit register and damage modelling for everything from inf to tanks to planes

3. Price Tags

Visuals are not so bad, nothing like they were in September of 2000.
Sure, its not on par with the COD/BATTLEFIELD franchise, but those are shoebox games, very very limited amount of terrain to be loaded in total.
You'd have to look to something more comparable like WOW which is also an MMO, WOW is not super graphically great, but being a fantasy themed game they can do a lot with the simple artwork
that you can not do in a WWII game because well, it will not look like WWII

I am not sure whose these are, I found them on google, not sure if its an event or intermission or what not, but they do not look that bad.
This is not the kind of game where I sit around and admire how many pixels or polygons something is, do that and you are long dead.
Pic1
Pic2
Pic3
Pic4
It just does not look that bad

Physics? Which physics exactly?
The ballistic simulation is very good, stuff does not just hit you and roll 2D10 for X damage.
Ive seen damage logger posts here, stuff hits you and does many things, and whether it kills you or not depends on exactly what it does.
Now you've gone and made me search for old posts, this will be kind of long... (cant resize code box??)

some of the information means, and then let you read it in a lightly humanized form.

Lets take the first line.

STUG 75mm APHE round hitting panhard right hull door
at 714 m/s, Energy 1730949 joules, thickness 14.00 mm at 7 deg


stug 75mm aphe is of course the ammunition that was fired.
It hit the right side of the panhard in the crew door.
The round was traveling 714 meters per second.
It had an energy of 1,730,949 joules.
For refference, it takes about 10,000 joules to blow a track
and about 3000 joules to damage the 25mm gun on the panhard.

We have nearly 2 million joules of energy on initial impact.

Thickness, is the thickness of the surface being hit, the panhard door is only 14mm thick.
The round hit at 7 degrees to the armor, almost perfectly straight
angle.
 
So lets lock load and fire!
Stug IIIB at range 400meters firing ONE round of APHE on a Panhard right side crew door. 
Gunner commence firing!!          
 
STUG 75mm APHE round hitting panhard right hull door
at 714 m/s, Energy 1730949 joules, thickness 14.00 mm at 7 deg,  
 
STUG 75mm APHE fuse started, timer = 0.0010 seconds  

Oh look here! the APHE is fusing on impact, very good, we want this
it will detonate in 1/1000th of a second. 

75mm APHE hits with 120746.653868 joules to right hull door  
 
STUG 75mm APHE spalling 46 pieces of right hull door

********the round has not yet passed through the armor********
this is just the spall, it shows you what speed and angle its hits
objects at and with how much energy.
46 pieces were created. 
We wont list all 46 pieces, but enough of them for you to see the crew dying. 
 
 
Spall chunk(0) striking  left side of hull of panhard at 803 m/s, Energy 641 joules, thickness 15.00 mm at 57 deg 
 
spall chunk hits with 641.438818 joules to left side of hull  
 
Spall chunk(0) stopped in left side of hull, penetrated 0.00 mm, lost 803 m/s, speed now 0 m/s  
 
Notice the speed of 803 meters per second and over 600 joules?
this stuff is almost like rifle bullets going off inside.
 
Spall chunk(1) striking commander's legs at 665 m/s, Energy 106 joules, thickness 1.00 mm at 0 deg 
 
Damage was 105.870682 joules to commander's legs  
 
Spall chunk(1) stopped in commander's legs 0.00 mm, lost 665 m/s, speed now 0 m/s  
 
Spall chunk(2) hits commander's legs at 1001 m/s, Energy 1009 joules, thickness 1.00 mm at 0 deg  
 
Damage was 1008.526877 joules to commander's legs  
 
Spall chunk(2) stopped in commander's legs 0.01 mm, lost 1001 m/s, speed now 0 m/s  
 
Spall chunk(3) Hits the 25mm ammo storage at 1244 m/s, Energy 1287 joules, thickness 3.00 mm at 0 deg  
 
Damage was 1287.401488 joules to 25mm ammo storage  
 
Spall chunk(3) stopped in 25mm ammo storage(2) 0.01 mm, lost 1244 m/s, speed now 0 m/s 
  
Spall chunk(4) hits back of hull at 282 m/s, Energy 38 joules, thickness 15.00 mm at 34 deg  
 
Damage was 37.656510 joules to back of hull  
 
Spall chunk(4) stopped in back of hull 0.00 mm, lost 282 m/s, speed now 0 m/s  
 
Spall chunk(5) Hits bottom of turret at 310 m/s, Energy 81 joules, thickness 14.00 mm at 65 deg  
 
Damage was 80.642116 joules to bottom of turret  
 
Spall chunk(5) stopped in bottom of turret(2) 0.00 mm, lost 310 m/s, speed now 0 m/s  
 
Spall chunk(6) spalls from outside of armor  
 
Spall chunk(6) strikes the ground at 428 m/s  

This is very interesting, the armor actualy spalled on the outside also.
this piece hit the ground.
 
Spall chunk(7) Hits commander's legs at 1412 m/s, Energy 1833 joules, thickness 1.00 mm at 0 deg, t = 3054.615326 s  
 
Damage of 1833.295896 joules to commander's legs  
The commander has long since passed death
 
Spall chunk(7) stopped in commander's legs 0.01 mm, lost 1412 m/s, speed now 0 m/s  
 
Spall chunk(8) Hits commander's torso at 1437 m/s, Energy 1647 joules, thickness 1.20 mm at 0 deg

 
Damage of 1646.681433 joules to commander's torso
Commander is now unidentifiable organic soup  
 
Spall chunk(8) stopped in commander's torso(10) 0.01 mm, lost 1437 m/s, speed now 0 m/s  
 
Spall chunk(9) Lands in gunner's torso at 1546 m/s, Energy 93 joules, thickness 1.20 mm at 0 deg  
 
Damage of 93.100734 joules to gunner's torso
Gunner is a fond memory  
 
Spall chunk(9) stopped in gunner's torso 0.00 mm, lost 1546 m/s, speed now 0 m/s
 
Spall chunk(10) hits bottom of turret at 477 m/s, Energy 6 joules, thickness 14.00 mm at 65 deg
 
Damage of 6.310749 joules to bottom of turret
this is equivelant of a fly landing on it  
 
Spall chunk(10) stopped in bottom of turret 0.00 mm, lost 477 m/s, speed now 0 m/s  
 
Spall chunk(11) Hits left side of hull at 1030 m/s, Energy 1159 joules, thickness 15.00 mm at 32 deg
 
Damage applied 1158.589382 joules to left side of hull  
 
Spall chunk(11) stopped in left side of hull 0.01 mm, lost 1030 m/s, speed now 0 m/s
 
Spall chunk(12) hits bottom of turret at 710 m/s, Energy 32 joules, thickness 14.00 mm at 66 deg
 
Damage was only 31.843677 joules to bottom of turret  
 
Spall chunk(12) stopped in bottom of turret 0.00 mm, lost 710 m/s, speed now 0 m/s  
 
Spall chunk(13) hit bottom of turret at 471 m/s, Energy 217 joules, thickness 14.00 mm at 70 deg
 
Damage was minor, 216.815958 joules to bottom of turret  
 
Spall chunk(13) stopped in bottom of turret 0.00 mm, lost 471 m/s, speed now 0 m/s  
 
Spall chunk(14) hits commander's torso at 1275 m/s, Energy 949 joules, thickness 1.20 mm at 0 deg
 
Commander ate another 949.268661 joules to commander's torso  
 
Spall chunk(14) stopped in commander's torso(10) 0.01 mm, lost 1275 m/s, speed now 0 m/s
We will have to ressurect him to apply any more damage.  
 
Spall chunk(15) hit the 25mm ammo storage(2) of panhard(beta1) at 706 m/s, Energy 424 joules, thickness 3.00 mm at 0 deg  
 
Damage was 424.228619 joules to 25mm ammo storage  
 
Spall chunk(15) stopped in 25mm ammo storage(2) 0.00 mm, lost 706 m/s, speed now 0 m/s
Not enough energy or penetration to cook off the ammo, darn 
 
We skip down to chunk 36 because there are tons of repeated crew hits and spall hitting the armor.
 
Spall chunk(36) hits transaxle at 445 m/s, Energy 102 joules, thickness 100.00 mm at 0 deg
 
Minscule damage of 101.949308 joules to transaxle  
 
Spall chunk(36) stopped in transaxle 0.00 mm, lost 445 m/s, speed now 0 m/s  

The transaxle has made a wonderful spall shield for the driver
100mm of shielding
 
Spall chunk(38) again an exterior spall  
 
Spall chunk(38) hits right front fender at 253 m/s, Energy 19484 joules, thickness 7.00 mm at 61 deg
 
Damage of 19484.321335 joules to right front fender
  
Spall chunk(38) stopped in right front fender 0.07 mm, lost 253 m/s, speed now 0 m/s  
If this was alive it would be dead.
Since spall chunk 38 is low speed but high joules, i am guessing its a larger chunk
you will notice some are fast but low energy.
This would suggest they have different mass, that is a very intricate detail.
 
************** Ok now we actualy penetrate ***********************
after 46 pieces of spall have ripped the place up. 
 
STUG 75mm APHE penetrated right hull door 14.00 mm, lost 25 m/s, speed now 688 m/s  

14mm is the door thickness, it didnt slow the round down much, it only lost 25 meters per second of speed.
 
STUG 75mm APHE slamms into commander's legs at 688 m/s, Energy 1610203 joules, thickness 1.00 mm at 0 deg 
 
A traumatic 4398.429960 joules to commander's legs  
 
STUG 75mm APHE penetrated commander's legs 1.00 mm, lost 1 m/s, speed now 687

This poor guy has had it, he is toasted.
If this wasnt APHE you would see the round keep going through stuff,
but since its APHE something cooler is going to happen

*****************************************************************
Now the APHE explodes!!
*****************************************************************
 
STUG 75mm APHE detonating  BOOM
 
STUG 75mm APHE explodes into 30 pieces of shrapnel 

We will skip to some more interesting shrapnel, but they go on ripping crew to pieces just like the spall. 
 

Shrapnel shard(2) Severs gunners legs at 779 m/s, Energy 39361 joules, thickness 1.00 mm at 0 deg, t = 3054.616761 s  
 
Damage was 39360.979559 joules to gunners legs  
What legs? they are gone now.
This poor guy needs 5 body bags and a broom.
 
Shrapnel shard(2) stopped in gunners legs 0.26 mm, lost 779 m/s, speed now 0 m/s
 
Shrapnel shard perferates gunner's torso at 849 m/s, Energy 29655 joules, thickness 1.20 mm at 0 deg  
 
Damage was 29655.306813 joules to gunner's torso  
 
Shrapnel shard(3) stopped in gunner's torso 0.19 mm, lost 849 m/s, speed now 0 m/s
 
Lots of repeated crew hits, driver took a near fatal one to his head
Now look at this.

***********************************************************
CONCUSSIVE DAMAGE!!
***********************************************************
There were about 90 something concussion events here
below are some of the highlights

STUG 75mm APHE concussive explosion  
 
Effect of concussion to  left side of hull  at 0.8 m 

Now lets skip to someone getting hurt. 
 

Damage of 10.913030 joules to radiator  
 
Effect of concussion to component antifreeze at 1.5 m from detonation  
 
Damage of 14.395833 joules to antifreeze  
 
Effect of concussion to component driver's head
 
energy 29.883825 joules to damage driver's head, threshold 40.000000 joules 
Drivers head survives, too bad shrapnel already hurt him.
He bleeds out, poor guy 
 
 
Effect of concussion to component commander's torso  
 
Damage of 127.093132 joules to commander's torso  
Too bad he is already dead
 
Effect of concussion to component commanders arms
 
Damage of 88.672264 joules to commanders arms  

And of course his arms are now on the floor

The end result here was commander and gunner laying about in pieces on the panhard floor
the driver bled out from a nasty head wound.
There was also damage in the engine compartment to the radiator, and a coolant line(antifreeze)
It also showed that APHE does infact fuse and then detonate inside the armored car bodies.
There was alot of spall and shrapnel inside, and every single piece was calculated.
We also learned that there is concussive damage, and it can injure and kill crew if they take
a big enough hit from it.
All the above data is real game data, retyped to make it humanly readable.
Hopefuly you find this both interesting and helpful

Disclaimer: A Panhard and crew were actualy killed during this testing
but no sheep were harmed.

Ground units are a tad weird, like the use a modified flight model perhaps, but since we aren't running a racing sim, it's nothing terrible, there are some traction/friction issues that could stand to be
dealt with, but I would guess that requires the vehicle modeling be redone totally.

Infantry move like the move mostly because it is an MMO, not a shoebox 100% ping oriented affair, The shoebox isn't exactly right either.
People don't generally go running off at 38mph vaulting over things either.

Price? Its average for an MMO
WOW is 14 bucks, most other MMO are in the same ballpark, and there is a 4.99 sub, which most other MMO games do not have.
WOT is not exactly an MMO, it's a PTW shoebox arena.

So, while the game is not as popular as I wish it were, these are not the reasons
seem more like just mean spirited comments?

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So, why is the game so unpopular, or perhaps so unknown?
Well, the root of all evil is of course Money.

The game began well, big dev team, some of the best guys from the combat sim field working on it.
CRS had a lot of staff then, they had publisher and investor financial backing.
The game was coming along well, coming along mind you, not ready for prime time, not even ready for public beta testing, but still impressive accomplishments.
It needed, probably another 18 to 24 months of solid closed dev time, then it could have entered public beta
But that did not happen, the Publisher, and perhaps some of the investors too, decided it was time to count the beans and call it payday.

Release the game, or it dies and goes to code heaven.
Now this happens a lot, games that die in dev and never see the light of day, happens in EA etc all the time.
But this was not EA, and among other things, some of these guys making the game had their entire life, even their families lives invested in it.
It was not just publisher and investor funds, some of the devs were invested, one person mortgaged their home to start this game.

So instead of letting it die on the office floor, it was a fight to release a game they knew was not ready.
A horrible up hill fight to keep something alive that was born way too premature.
The game made no money at all for like the 1st year, they did not bill anyone who subscribed.
All the time and money that could have been spent on things that would better the games popularity went spent on simply keeping it alive.
It was bleeding money rather than making it.
Playnet (I have no idea if they are the original commodore 64 playnet game service, so don't ask) had other games at the time, but they were nothing money making worth mention, except barbarian smack down, it was awesome.
So money is bleeding out, nothing is coming in, and all effort that could have been used to better means was used to run a cross between a hospice/ICU/emergency room.
Problem is, with no income, personnel were on the outgo, had to lighten the ship to keep it afloat.

Eventually the financial inevitable came, Bankruptcy.
Here was a perfect reason to throw in the towel and walk away, but they did not.
Probably most other people would have.
Call it Bones.. Time of death Thursday Dec 7th 2001, cause 01-49209-BJH-11, chapter 11
Pull the sheet.

But no, for what ever reasons they decided to try and keep the game alive and try to finish the game.
But, there is still no money, bankruptcy isn't a sudden removal of debt, you still have to pay your debtors.
And this is how it has gone on ever since, trying to fund dev, yet pay the debts, and keep the lights on.
And that might be possible in some situations, but the game had been hurt pretty badly by all the previous events, and did not have its hoped income level to do so.
Once a games rep has been hurt, it is very hard to come back from no matter how hard you work at it.

And this was NEVER going to be a massively popular game, Ever.
Air warrior, the grand daddy of combat sims, it began way back before windows, was played in dos with wire frame graphics and 8 bit colour on dial up connections.
It was probably the most popular, most successful WWII combat sim there ever was, it went from archaic DOS line graphics to windows very modern 3d graphics and was horrendously popular...

...In it's niche
While it was probably the most played large scale WWII sim ever, it had nothing on things like DOOM, Descent, Duke Nukem, etc
These were the popular things, this is where the big money was, had it the misfortune WWII Online had, we most likely would never had heard of it
By the way, back when it was a DOS dial up game, people paid like $2.00 per hour to play it.
 

Our game lives in a closed little community of gamers, one not very tolerant or forgiving, and the game let them down and took too long to deliver the promises that were made.
It was not the games intention, and really was not the games fault, but the niche is not interested in excuses, and the game lost their trust and respect.
It will take a lot of work to gain that back, a lot more than simply keeping the game running will be needed.

Hopefully the new team can get the vision back, can quickly get the game to a point where they can feasibly begin putting together all the unfinished things.
The game is never going to have state of the art 4K graphics, not if you would like to find 10,000 other human beings in the same server, but it does need all its functions that never came to be
and a lot of gameplay mechanics that just never had the resources to be worked out and created.
But to pull that off, they have to find money.
Figure out that part and the rest is cake

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