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Perceived Equipment Imbalances

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Agentwade' date=' you complain about the A13. That's what axis tanking is like. Every tank - including the Tiger - is a rolling toaster. JUST LIKE A13s. Imagine fighting the entire campaign in A13s. Thats what we are talking about ffs.[/quote']

Yeah the tiger, IVG, 3G, 3b, 3h, 3F and IVD can all be killed by a lmg :rolleyes: like the A13.

Get a grip dude. No ones gonna take you seriously if you keep making statements like that lol.

Some of the best tankers in this community were axis players.

Edited by Lob12

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Agentwade' date=' you complain about the A13. That's what axis tanking is like. Every tank - including the Tiger - is a rolling toaster. JUST LIKE A13s. Imagine fighting the entire campaign in A13s. Thats what we are talking about ffs.[/quote']

I didn't know that the Tiger had the same sites and gun as the A13? Or the Stug or IVG for that matter?

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Agentwade' date=' you complain about the A13. That's what axis tanking is like. Every tank - including the Tiger - is a rolling toaster. JUST LIKE A13s. Imagine fighting the entire campaign in A13s. Thats what we are talking about ffs.[/quote']

"Lo único de lo que el mundo no se cansará nunca es de la exageración"

(Salvador Dalí)

More less like this: "The only thing the world will never be tired of is the exaggeration".

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Agentwade' date=' you complain about the A13. That's what axis tanking is like. Every tank - including the Tiger - is a rolling toaster. JUST LIKE A13s. Imagine fighting the entire campaign in A13s. Thats what we are talking about ffs.[/quote']

I wish I thought you were trolling. The a13 is the equivalent to the axis 38t only with slightly thinner armor and no hull MG. You're off your rocker if you think it's comparable. In the second tier the british get, ...wait for it..., the a15, a slightly up armored version of the a13 with the same 40mm gun.

The armor game is not as lop sided as you think. For the first two tiers the allies get 3 (4) tanks that are really worth using, the Matilda in the british flags, and the s35, b1, and Stuart in the french flags. The stuart can get crew knocked out by ATRs, is very vulnerable to air attacks, and despite what some people like to think, lightly armored. The Matilda is limited in numbers and can be taken out by HEAT rounds, and is slow enough that you should be hitting it with sappers. The s35 and b1 are good in their tiers but again, use HEAT rounds or hit them in the right spots for regular AP and they will go down. Trust me, I've died in 1 or 2 shots in them plenty of times.

Once the Shermans, m10s, and 4gs and stugs stats show they tend to be generally well matched, with historical stats showing that the pz4g roughly ties (with slight disadvantage) vs the shermans, and the stug way out performs the m10 when you account for both head to head matchups and how they do against their same tier medium tank opponents. Once the Sherman 76 and the Tiger comes in it's a complete shift in the axis favor statistically if Tigers are available in equal numbers, as the Sherman 76 loses hands down to the Tiger and doesn't perform nearly as well against lower tier tanks as the Tiger does.

Hell, in this recent tier I had the pleasure of watching a grey stug3b roll out of an AB under fire, turn towards me, degun my stuart on his first shot after I hit him several times, turn towards an M10 that struck him about 5 times and cause a detonation on him within 2 shots, and then turn back and finish me off in one shot.

So no, you've been eating far too many paint chips if you think that axis tanks are equal in experience to a13s, which can be LMG'd and ATR'd to death fairly easily. The main reason most axis tankers feel that way is because any competent allied player knows to shoot the turret on the left side next to the gun when facing Pz3s and Pz4s, which is reliable way to kill the gunner at the ranges we typically fight. Unless you're in a late tier tank of course, then you can go for other spots.

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Stuart can be flamed by LMG at close range too :rolleyes:

And thats arguably our best tank for a tier. Imagine if we could do this to the 3h?

Personally, its also with a stuart that I made my best sortie in career. 55 kills in havelange. PZs, ATGs and a shatload of EIs lol.

Edited by Lob12

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Agentwade' date=' you complain about the A13. That's what axis tanking is like. Every tank - including the Tiger - is a rolling toaster. JUST LIKE A13s. Imagine fighting the entire campaign in A13s. Thats what we are talking about ffs.[/quote']

If this is your genuine perception (and I believe it is) then you must be a terrible tanker. There's really no other explanation for a statement like this.

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"Lo único de lo que el mundo no se cansará nunca es de la exageración"

(Salvador Dalí)

More less like this: "The only thing the world will never be tired of is the exaggeration".

"Perception is Reality"

Right now a lot of people hold the perception that Axis armor is not up to the task. Who knows what has caused the perception. Maybe it is dealing with the Char, S35, and Matilda with the Axis 37mm in tier 0 that causes the problem? Then the bad taste lasts for the other tiers as well? I don't know.

However, I do know this. If the perception (true or not) exists for too long and is pervasive enough it won't be our problem. It will be CRS's problem.

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If this is your genuine perception (and I believe it is) then you must be a terrible tanker. There's really no other explanation for a statement like this.

I don't see how this furthers the discussion in any kind of constructive way other making people further dig in their heels.

Remember that perceptions real or not can be damaging if they are pervasive enough.

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However, I do know this. If the perception (true or not) exists for too long and is pervasive enough it won't be our problem. It will be CRS's problem.

Some people are just bad though...

Me thinks Kchip has a lot to learn still.

Me per example, always been a sub-average pilot in this game. Not about to change lol.

Nothing to do with the gear itself.

Edited by Lob12

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Some people are just bad though...

Me thinks Kchip has a lot to learn still.

Me per example, always been a sub-average pilot in this game. Not about to change lol.

Nothing to do with the gear itself.

Kchip's ability/skill as a tanker is irrelevant to the discussion. So is telling him he is not a good tanker. All that does is fuel a bunch of useless angst between players. I would say it’s about equivalent to having a video of you posted while you have the offset bug and subsequently get called a cheater. What does it really accomplish? What do you hope to accomplish with a post like that?

He is not alone in his perception that Axis armor does not stand up to the task. I’ve heard this mantra repeatedly from multiple players. If it was just one guy it would be alot easier to dismiss. If the perception that Axis armor does not stand up is becoming pervasive that is not a good thing.

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I don't see how this furthers the discussion in any kind of constructive way other making people further dig in their heels.

Remember that perceptions real or not can be damaging if they are pervasive enough.

True. I didn't mean to be insulting. I was just so dumbfounded by that statement and trying to explain the situation outloud.

Fwiw I'm a terrible tanker too ;)

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Kchip's ability/skill as a tanker is irrelevant to the discussion. So is telling him he is not a good tanker. All that does is fuel a bunch of useless angst between players. I would say it’s about equivalent to having a video of you posted while you have the offset bug and subsequently get called a cheater. What does it really accomplish? What do you hope to accomplish with a post like that?

He is not alone in his perception that Axis armor does not stand up to the task. I’ve heard this mantra repeatedly from multiple players. If it was just one guy it would be alot easier to dismiss. If the perception that Axis armor does not stand up is becoming pervasive that is not a good thing.

I'm not a gear whiner though...

I played both sides too. for me each side has advantages and disadvantages.

Calling me a cheater out of the blue isn't the same thing.

I'm not the one making ridiculous comments about my gear or the other side's.

Defeatist comments like that do not reflect reality and do not help the axis side imo.

When I see them on the allied side, I usually try to silence this crap. Calmly if possible.

Funny stuff : I'm in a S76 south of chimay right now and theres a kitty north of me. I'm scared as fck.

Edited by Lob12

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Kchip's ability/skill as a tanker is irrelevant to the discussion. So is telling him he is not a good tanker. All that does is fuel a bunch of useless angst between players. I would say it’s about equivalent to having a video of you posted while you have the offset bug and subsequently get called a cheater. What does it really accomplish? What do you hope to accomplish with a post like that?

He is not alone in his perception that Axis armor does not stand up to the task. I’ve heard this mantra repeatedly from multiple players. If it was just one guy it would be alot easier to dismiss. If the perception that Axis armor does not stand up is becoming pervasive that is not a good thing.

Most of the armor is perfectly up to task (and all the junk tanks pair up with allied junk tanks, like the r35), but it's simply harder to learn how to kill a lot of allied armor because there are so many different models and kill spots to learn. When the majority of tanks for the axis are Pz3s and Pz4s and Stugs, that's 3 general models to learn to deal with. The main imbalance is tier 0, which is dealt with by giving the axis more tanks.

So player ability is relevant to this conversation because stat wise, in the aggregate, the axis armor does fine. If players like kchip or krazydog with their wild-eyed rants are allowed to drive the conversation then it's going to lead to either axis morale plummeting over an inflated issue, or CRS hitting allies with the nerf bat, like how Tiger numbers got bumped up and the turret got an ahistorical increase because of "shermaggeddon" (a perception that is a pet peeve of mine because yeah, no crap, we have a lot of "shermans" when our top tier tank is also another sherman and our TD is based off a sherman chassis)

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Most of the armor is perfectly up to task (and all the junk tanks pair up with allied junk tanks, like the r35), but it's simply harder to learn how to kill a lot of allied armor because there are so many different models and kill spots to learn. When the majority of tanks for the axis are Pz3s and Pz4s and Stugs, that's 3 general models to learn to deal with. The main imbalance is tier 0, which is dealt with by giving the axis more tanks.

So player ability is relevant to this conversation because stat wise, in the aggregate, the axis armor does fine. If players like kchip or krazydog with their wild-eyed rants are allowed to drive the conversation then it's going to lead to either axis morale plummeting over an inflated issue, or CRS hitting allies with the nerf bat, like how Tiger numbers got bumped up and the turret got an ahistorical increase because of "shermaggeddon" (a perception that is a pet peeve of mine because yeah, no crap, we have a lot of "shermans" when our top tier tank is also another sherman and our TD is based off a sherman chassis)

CRS swings the nerf bat as they see fit. As they should. The Axis have been hit more than a few times themselves. The Stuka, the 88, and the Opel (yes the Opel) come to mind over the years. It's not a bad thing when they do it. Balance is necessary to a video game's survival.

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I will not be baited into another ban. Ask any axis, ya'll are fooked in the head. The simple fact is, you lobby hard for the stuff you want - If NOBODY on axis side of these arguments says anything - Than it will never be looked into. You all lobby HARD and dominate this forum, and get what you want as a result. Seems there was some other lobbying going on to stop us from invading England 2 weeks ago......

I consider statements about my ability as an attack and should be handled by the moderators along the guide of the TOS. I never said you guys suck. So your statements show exactly just how lame you are. Narcissistic and egotistical. Over a video game. Pathetic! I am a grown up after all, so I can take whatever BS you dish out.

My tanking is average in my mind. I have never made egotistical statements like many of you guys make. I've been back for 2 month after 5-6 year break. A lot has changed and a lot has stayed the same. But I am rusty. But I dont really look at my stats. I look at my kill list. And I got a few good scalps today : )

I have seen XOOMS, BAGDERs, and VICTORs posts. Audits should be made. The 88 in particular. Hopefully more. SOON

I have stayed on and posted here for my axis brothers who have run from this forum. That very fact is shameful.

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Oh -

I would say that my crappy stats could be attributed to capping your CPs. It is a dangerous task ya know. You wont see me sniping like a ****** from a window/wall. The exploiters are well known. We talk about you all on TS. Funny stuff. lols

My game is clean. That's what my stats say.

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I will not be baited into another ban. Ask any axis, ya'll are fooked in the head. The simple fact is, you lobby hard for the stuff you want - If NOBODY on axis side of these arguments says anything - Than it will never be looked into. You all lobby HARD and dominate this forum, and get what you want as a result. Seems there was some other lobbying going on to stop us from invading England 2 weeks ago......

I consider statements about my ability as an attack and should be handled by the moderators along the guide of the TOS. I never said you guys suck. So your statements show exactly just how lame you are. Narcissistic and egotistical. Over a video game. Pathetic! I am a grown up after all, so I can take whatever BS you dish out.

My tanking is average in my mind. I have never made egotistical statements like many of you guys make. I've been back for 2 month after 5-6 year break. A lot has changed and a lot has stayed the same. But I am rusty. But I dont really look at my stats. I look at my kill list. And I got a few good scalps today : )

I have seen XOOMS, BAGDERs, and VICTORs posts. Audits should be made. The 88 in particular. Hopefully more. SOON

I have stayed on and posted here for my axis brothers who have run from this forum. That very fact is shameful.

http://portal.hud.gov/hudportal/HUD?src=/program_offices/healthy_homes

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Troll much?

In this case yes. I'll make you a deal, you come over allied next campaign and I'll go axis, and we'll see if we're still singing the same tunes.

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Oh -

I would say that my crappy stats could be attributed to capping your CPs. It is a dangerous task ya know. You wont see me sniping like a ****** from a window/wall. The exploiters are well known. We talk about you all on TS. Funny stuff. lols

My game is clean. That's what my stats say.

Sounds like you still have some fight in you so that is good to hear. It also sounds like your sticking it out and staying around for a while which I'm even more glad to hear. I hope you stick around and keep playing.

I think from an observational standpoint that some of your posts use a lot of extreme language [Every, must, is, has to be, all]. Extreme as in final and conclusive with sweeping judgments, statements or observations. I'm sure I have done the same. That may be part of the reason there is so much push back sometimes.

I can't tell you how to communicate though, you will have to figure that out. I'm sure for CRS the audit could not come too soon.

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My tanking is average in my mind. I have never made egotistical statements like many of you guys make. I've been back for 2 month after 5-6 year break. A lot has changed and a lot has stayed the same. But I am rusty. But I dont really look at my stats. I look at my kill list. And I got a few good scalps today : )

The people citing player skill or teamwork as the ultimate balancing factor are ignoring that fact that every megasquad, large squad and nearly every small squad have left the game. The game has lost most of it's experienced players. So now the "skill floor" of any unit is far more relevant than it was in the past. Many axis units had high "skill ceilings" but that's now much less relevant.

I mean the Flak 36 used to be balanced under the assumption that there were elite players with dual accounts and large networks of other experienced players that would buffer and support them on cue. They were so powerful in that setup that their numbers were strictly limited. Now you don't have anything resembling that environment and the Flak 36 is nearly useless.

It's a similar fate with every other unit that requires smart play. Agentwade mentions tiger numbers getting buffed, that would have been unthinkable many years ago with all the experienced tiger drivers but that's what happens when the community collapses and the game becomes determined by close range tank rush warfare. The days of high-level, long term play are over so you balance around what actually matters, which is ability to zerg a town or counter a zerg and duke it out at short range.

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No thanks agentroll. You think that you can c/p stupid **** and THEN make a deal? You guys should reconsider the gang-banging of other players and the trolling of other people who are NOT on your side or don't have the same opinion as you. In my opinion, you drive people away from this forum and from playing/paying the game. You want to be little kings in a small tent, keep up your trolling, bragging, trash talking.

There has been some sloppy axis gameplay of late. No HC. All the oxygen left the room on the axis side with the "patch". We appreciate the new Infantry stuff, but not being mowed down hopelessly by Sherman after Sherman after Sherman. We don't have numbers, confidence, or HC coverage. Seeing your killers name and thinking to yourself - hey! That dude was axis yesterday or 15 minutes ago. Now spawn a leet PZ4 and get insta popped by an ATG frontally - AFTER you've shot him twice with HE and mg. This stuff doesn't make sense, but it IS happening and it fuels frustration about the retreat. Sure there are buggy ways to kill Allied tanks, I started trying the LMG thing after it was done to me. It works. I don't think it should work, but it does. But if you can run into the side of a tank and kill it with LMG somehow...does that build confidence?

Last thing, my TOM - ya know - my stats. I work at home and am tabbed out 30% of the time. Usually leaving my troop in a spawn CP defending (coal mine canary) or fru'd somewhere for a FB take down. Seems the game needs more people like me, a WBS. In game, on TS, and paying. So deal with my 2 cents. I deal with yours.

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No thanks agentroll. You think that you can c/p stupid **** and THEN make a deal? You guys should reconsider the gang-banging of other players and the trolling of other people who are NOT on your side or don't have the same opinion as you. In my opinion, you drive people away from this forum and from playing/paying the game. You want to be little kings in a small tent, keep up your trolling, bragging, trash talking.

There has been some sloppy axis gameplay of late. No HC. All the oxygen left the room on the axis side with the "patch". We appreciate the new Infantry stuff, but not being mowed down hopelessly by Sherman after Sherman after Sherman. We don't have numbers, confidence, or HC coverage. Seeing your killers name and thinking to yourself - hey! That dude was axis yesterday or 15 minutes ago. Now spawn a leet PZ4 and get insta popped by an ATG frontally - AFTER you've shot him twice with HE and mg. This stuff doesn't make sense, but it IS happening and it fuels frustration about the retreat. Sure there are buggy ways to kill Allied tanks, I started trying the LMG thing after it was done to me. It works. I don't think it should work, but it does. But if you can run into the side of a tank and kill it with LMG somehow...does that build confidence?

Last thing, my TOM - ya know - my stats. I work at home and am tabbed out 30% of the time. Usually leaving my troop in a spawn CP defending (coal mine canary) or fru'd somewhere for a FB take down. Seems the game needs more people like me, a WBS. In game, on TS, and paying. So deal with my 2 cents. I deal with yours.

agentroll.

Nice one.

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