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undercova

EWS range for trucks and guns lowered to 1500 meters

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Version 1.34.16

thats a joke eh ?

1.500m is way too low

2.500m would be fine imo. but when you have a truck with multi medium/heavy guns driving at full speed towards a town they can kinda insta drop on a hill or good position near the AB without giving the enemy ability to get out anymore. just with infantry and even those get sniped pretty fast then

maximum CAMPING i guess

example:

you spawn a truck at FB. get some friends with heavy atgs and drive towards town. you are at full speed on road. you reach the 1.500m perimeter of town. ews triggers. 5-10 secs later you are in position and the first few atgs drop. within next 5-10 secs they are set up already

enemy knows nothing about it. suddenly ews pops up on a town. he is currently in a mission and has to despawn (10 secs) or wait for next death. creates mission and spawns in. oh and dont forget the spawn delay. so it might be like 1-2mins until he can spawn in. he spawns a tank and get insta shot by 5+ atgs sitting that close to town or all around ab vehicle so there is no way to use armor at all. he has to switch to infantry and run for the enemy guns so he can take them out. thats just another 2 mins

meanwhile other players on your side spawned tanks and drive to town without being intercepted because the enemy town is kinda fully camped already

this needs to be revised imo

it massively decreases the chance to set up some kind of defense but meanwhile extremely increases the chance to CAMP

P.S.:

rename it from EWS (Early Warning System) to LWS (Late Warning System) or maybe CWS (Camping Warning System) then ;)

Edited by undercova
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oh wait

i forgot something

late war equipment works quite good at ranges like 1.500m

also some towns have pretty good hills covering the AB perfectly and they are outside the 1.500m range.

so in theory you are able to set up a massive attack on town having a massive army waiting at 1.600m distance to town. going in at same time

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One thing you forgot to add to the equation.

'Did You Know' Spawn delay.

So you have:

1. despawn timer of max 10 seconds. 10s

2. find your way out of the brig you are in. 3s

3. find the town you need to get to. 5s

4. make mission or join mission at town. 10s

5. spawn in and get 'Did you know' now this can be short or lengthy. 5s-120s

So by the time you get to the town, it takes on average 45s-60s.

Before this happens, you have to identify that something is going on.

Notify the player base. Get action from the PB. etc.

So, unless someone is sitting on the map waiting for the EWS to go off.

Reaction time is about 90s before anything can happen.

EWS should be 2500m min. distance from any flag in town.

With this, it gives the attacking unit time to stage its equipment

without setting off EWS and get it moving to town.

A coordinated push from the attacker, you still have time to get

to set up (depending on terrain) just before defense is ready.

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I always found ews triggered when you spawn at fb the best method so generally about 2k for guns and trucks.

But this was brought up during the last rat chat where there was quite a lot of people complaining about the switch to truck only FRUs and their main point was that they couldnt set up stealthy anymore and/or their trucks/guns would encounter already enemy responding forces while trying to do the initial setup.

Stupid if you ask me because it works the same for both sides, responding to ews right away is the key to succesful defense with truck frus.

ML Frus dumbed down the game for so long that pretty much everyone forgot how to play.

And those who asked for this are just gonna get camped the same way than before. It is all about side numbers and nothing else.

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I personally think it's too low, but I'm also CRS' outspoken "Quit sneaking around and just fight already you big babies" guy. :D

We have plenty of people watching to see how things unfold, and we're always listening to player feedback as well, so if it doesn't work out we're ready to move that number right back up to where it needs to be. Again, I personally suspect we'll be doing just that in a patch or two, but really I can suspect all I want: The only way to know for sure is to just give it a try and see what happens. :)

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Why do you have to spawn a tank because EWS has triggered?

Spawn infantry recon and mark the area.

ATGs have no protection from infantry.

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Compromise would be what 2k. I do agree with marcus33. Never had an issue with EWS. I'd like local EWS on CPs to prevent the sneaky cap. You'd have to take CPs in force. I doubt outside of John Wayne and Rambo type movies that a soldier ever commandeered or captured a command post single handed and without other elements in the town being totally unaware. Local EWS on CPs would be a compliment to the new spawning system in my opinion.

But I'm getting off track. I'm guessing the number will be adjusted upward. One of the complaints for reducing it was to give players at the FB time to organize without setting off EWS. We seem to do a little better organizing at the FB but I still see plenty of players spawning in and leaving solo whether in tanks or trucks. In the meantime, with the 1.5k EWS range, anticipating attacks and doing recon of FBs potentially posing a threat will be a wining strategy I think. Squads and sides will have to develop teams to perform these types of duties.

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Players are just lazy ...the best way is to remove all fbs

The AO system warning of "hey here we come now" should all you get.

We don't need EWS if there is no fbs and no range on units of different types of units setting off "ews" needed either.

We have over the years dumbed down thee most hard core game of all time that does not have perma death. We should demand this stop now!

When I first saw this game in my local Eb (electronics boutique) The cover a axis infantry man marching while in the backround something looking like a volcano full of smoke rising it GRABBED my attention.

I started looking at it front to back when an employee/salesman/person approached me saying that's not a good game it takes you 20 min on a TRUCK just to die as you get there. I then looked at him said it looks like ya should have be driving yourself there or walk. He looked at me strangely I then walked up to the counter and bought the game.

It took me an entire Year before I had a pc that could actually play the game (and not well low fps) After the long year wait I spawned in this new world and was scared completely out of my mind so much I crawled on my belly for 2 hours or about (it was night in the game and lots of gunshots) I headed to each noise I heard carefully till I reached the town that I needed to be at ...I heard a tank I sprang up to engage my enemy and @ that very moment I got ran over by an allied tank.

**took me 2 weeks to not die and actually log my first kill = Hooked 4 life

Been here for over 10 years under another semi famous account (first player rifleman to get 10,000 kills with just a lowely rifleman unit (back in the unlimited tank years YUCK!) my 10,000th rifle kill was on a matty just to make it extra special to me (took me many days of not killing to get that perfect matty kill with the rifle round (not the uber nade one back when nades killed tanks and yes I was that serious about doing it MY way)

Love this game and cant believe ive outlasted most that MADE this game and im Proud to have been part of it for so long that it makes me smile when a green tag puts a bullet between my eyes and kills me ...cause it means to me anyways that the game is where it should be ( a bullet don't care how long you've been playing just how well it was aimed

Salute to CRS ...present and lost and mostly the Playerbase that gives our game world real life

!S!

Edit please CRS give me 2 lil dots over the second O in my game name (im a huge motorhead fan and my hero Lemmy Kilmister passed away @ age 70 in DEC.

Edited by motorhead
Crs can I please get 2 dots over the second O in my name please

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This conversation is bizarre, EWS is a crutch that was put in for the people that were too lazy or disorganized to keep recon around their towns. Now there are posters here saying that toning down EWS to merely allow attackers to spawn at their FB without setting off an alarm is dumbing down the game.

Anyway I think it's obvious that it's not being put in to cater to casuals but to give more incentive to spawn ATGs versus tanks. Even if ATGs do manage to setup undetected on a hill or something it's not like a single suicide aircraft can't bomb them, and even if they do camp for 15 minutes without getting bombed or sniped, unlike tanks they can't move in and support building capture. So I don't know what the worry is.

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In my book any game mechanics which promote easier camping or fight avoiding (see the ML fru) are a nuisance to the game.

EWS is not a crutch, once a new player understands how it works it is the prime indicator on where to find enemies on the map and that's why we need it, regardless of what distance it gets triggered.

I'm questioning the logic behind this move as it is a direct outcome of the rat chat where this was discussed.

Now axis or allied it will affect both sides the same way.

The logic was that those who asked for a reduction found it harder to set up an attack and were encountering responding forces already out in the fields making it obviously very hard to set up the attack.

Now some will not like this but the same people also complained about getting camped over and over.

What seemingly wasn't considered is the population shift over the holidays which might very well be the only reason why all of a sudden things weren't going so well anymore.

And that's my whole point.

I think the decision was made to throw a bone to those who were complaining but in the end it will be the overpopped side who benefit more from this change than the underpop will by having it easier to set up an AO.

I can live with it (if I play) but I think it isn't helping any side or anyone really other than we got again some more stealth and camping potential added which frankly everyone should dread in this game.

btw: Years ago there was something called 'spawn in discipline' in order not to trigger EWS until the go ahead call was given and everyone simul-spawned in and rushed to town. That was pure excitement and required teamwork.

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Version 1.34.16

P.S.:

rename it from EWS (Early Warning System) to LWS (Late Warning System) or maybe CWS (Camping Warning System) then ;)

You're such a positive person. Is it difficult being around yourself being such a bubbly fountain of joy?

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You're such a positive person. Is it difficult being around yourself being such a bubbly fountain of joy?

im realistic

there are many skilled players in this game ... and many of them will try to exploit flaws in the game mechanique as best as they can and as they did in the past. EWS for all vehicles down to 1.500m ... specially tanks ... will lead to massive campings of towns.

just wait a few weeks and you will see that my statement will come true ;)

Edited by undercova
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I'm willing to give it a whirl and see how it plays out. With the increased visual range, and the decreased EWS, longer ranged gear should have an advantage now.. Using the 88 should be able to reap big rewards now as it can set up within render distance but outside of ews range.

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Agree 1500 probably too short, 2000 seems much better; gives EWS for recon but allows for most all FB spawning to stage vehicles.

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Fog of war!... if the game promotes attacking then there will be less stagnant lines and more people wanting to work ao's as more success breeds more effort....drive your tiger from a rear town then if your worried u wont have the time to run a flank move

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I'm sorry, but I didn't see anything about setting defense from a town, to counter this 1500 mm ews range, did I miss it? here is how I see it----ok ews gets set off in a town, now axis responds to that ews, they wait the time to make mission and then they can either spawn a truck , which will probably get taken out because the the atg's are ALREADY set and covering the exits from town --SO NO DEFENSE FRUS CAN GET OUT OF TOWN,--- now if they spawn a inf and try to run out and cut the direction of the allies coming in, THEY NOT only cannot set a defense fru because they aren't a truck, they cant walk out OR run out to even the farthest point of 1500 to try and stop them from setting up BEFORE there atgs or enemy fru's are placed,because the enemy has already set there efru's, and fat chance you going to make to either there efru because atg's will be covering them and the advancing enemy inf will keep you from getting to the atgs, NOW as I see it YOU HAVE TO BE a psychic to basically , to think which town the enemy MAY hit and then drive TRUCK out and sit and sit and sit and sit in the hopes that they come to the that town, so at least you have a defense fru out (sounding like FUN so far?) this just my opinion, distance for ews is way to short it need to be at 2500 NOT 1500, no time to set a defense for an attacking force.

Edited by xcas
fix it

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I'm sorry' date=' but I didn't see anything about setting defense from a town, to counter this 1500 mm ews range, did I miss it? here is how I see it----ok ews gets set off in a town, now axis responds to that ews, they wait the time to make mission and then they can either spawn a truck , which will probably get taken out because the the atg's are ALREADY set and covering the exits from town --SO NO DEFENSE FRUS CAN GET OUT OF TOWN,--- now if they spawn a inf and try to run out and cut the direction of the allies coming in, THEY NOT only cannot set a defense fru because they aren't a truck, they cant walk out OR run out to even the farthest point of 1500 to try and stop them from setting up BEFORE there atgs or enemy fru's are placed,because the enemy has already set there efru's, and fat chance you going to make to either there efru because atg's will be covering them and the advancing enemy inf will keep you from getting to the atgs, NOW as I see it YOU HAVE TO BE a psychic to basically , to think which town the enemy MAY hit and then drive TRUCK out and sit and sit and sit and sit in the hopes that they come to the that town, so at least you have a defense fru out (sounding like FUN so far?) this just my opinion, distance for ews is way to short it need to be at 2500 NOT 1500, no time to set a defense for an attacking force.[/quote']

You'd be better off scouting possible FBs than setting a perimeter defense and waiting endlessly. Many ways to scout an FB. For instance you'd be better off driving that truck right into the FB in question. I like EWS it kind of forces the fight. I'm also a very hardcore player so I don't mind the reduction either but that's just me. CRS is watching so we'll see how this works out.

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I'm sorry' date=' but I didn't see anything about setting defense from a town, to counter this 1500 mm ews range, did I miss it? here is how I see it----ok ews gets set off in a town, now axis responds to that ews, they wait the time to make mission and then they can either spawn a truck , which will probably get taken out because the the atg's are ALREADY set and covering the exits from town --SO NO DEFENSE FRUS CAN GET OUT OF TOWN,--- now if they spawn a inf and try to run out and cut the direction of the allies coming in, THEY NOT only cannot set a defense fru because they aren't a truck, they cant walk out OR run out to even the farthest point of 1500 to try and stop them from setting up BEFORE there atgs or enemy fru's are placed,because the enemy has already set there efru's, and fat chance you going to make to either there efru because atg's will be covering them and the advancing enemy inf will keep you from getting to the atgs, NOW as I see it YOU HAVE TO BE a psychic to basically , to think which town the enemy MAY hit and then drive TRUCK out and sit and sit and sit and sit in the hopes that they come to the that town, so at least you have a defense fru out (sounding like FUN so far?) this just my opinion, distance for ews is way to short it need to be at 2500 NOT 1500, no time to set a defense for an attacking force.[/quote']

This is how I see a lot of things going, and when the Axis gets overpop, as is inevitable, then the same thing will happen to the Allies.

The art in all of these setting bits is to encourage both attacker and defender to show up and fight naturally and organically, content generation. I don't expect New Rats to get it right every time, but at least they are trying changes faster and are willing to change out faster too.

Fail Fast is a really good development paradigm. Of course, Succeed First is better, but really tough to do given the complexity of the variables.

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Wasn't EWS range 3000m before hand? The more I think about it, even 2000m might be too short, why not try 2500m first? Do a gradual change, not cut it in half all at once.

If you think about it, an attacker can easily get to 750m and setup before the defender can get to 750m to stop them.

(attacker at 1500m and EWS goes off, their truck moving, defender not even spawned in yet, by the time defender gets a truck and drives out, attacker will easily be setup at 750m range - nearly point blank)

Now, what might work is make over pop EWS range 2500m and under pop EWS range 1500m or even 1000m maybe.

Edited by delems

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Wasn't EWS range 3000m before hand? The more I think about it, even 2000m might be too short, why not try 2500m first? Do a gradual change, not cut it in half all at once.

If you think about it, an attacker can easily get to 750m and setup before the defender can get to 750m to stop them.

(attacker at 1500m and EWS goes off, their truck moving, defender not even spawned in yet, by the time defender gets a truck and drives out, attacker will easily be setup at 750m range - nearly point blank)

Now, what might work is make over pop EWS range 2500m and under pop EWS range 1500m or even 1000m maybe.

depending on the unit it was 1500-2500. Maybe even less than 1500 for inf... can't quite recall the old infantry value.. but it was shorter that's why you walked FRU's in so as not to set off ews with trucks.

The new range was set so that simply spawning at the fb would not set off ews (though some of the closer FB's will still trigger it)

Edited by b2k

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The goal I believe, was to improve gameplay by keeping more people in the fight rather than guarding cities that don't need guarding.

I went over every forward base in game looking at distances to town. Here is what I found.

The absolute closest is Zeebrug to Oostende, 800m from the edge of Oostende. The farthest was out beyond 3000.

There are only 10 forward bases inside of 1500 meters to their target city, another 6 inside 1500 to airfields.

Add in 1500 to 2000 meters and that number goes way way up. I didn't bother counting there were so many.

So 1500 was a good place to start.

For me, its nice not having to defend a city because there's a guard at the forward base.

When I see EWS now, I know they are bringing the fight, and that's an improvement.

So how's it working for everyone else ?

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The goal I believe, was to improve gameplay by keeping more people in the fight rather than guarding cities that don't need guarding.

I went over every forward base in game looking at distances to town. Here is what I found.

The absolute closest is Zeebrug to Oostende, 800m from the edge of Oostende. The farthest was out beyond 3000.

There are only 10 forward bases inside of 1500 meters to their target city, another 6 inside 1500 to airfields.

Add in 1500 to 2000 meters and that number goes way way up. I didn't bother counting there were so many.

So 1500 was a good place to start.

For me, its nice not having to defend a city because there's a guard at the forward base.

When I see EWS now, I know they are bringing the fight, and that's an improvement.

So how's it working for everyone else ?

I'm good with it so far and yes it greatly curtails the lets set off EWS everywhere gaming device. A brand new full campaign will be a good test of these conditions.

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I don't know... I like not having EWS get set off the second some idiot spawns a truck/tank/atg at the FB.

You're trying to set up on a town, and not advertise it to all of side chat, (spies!!!) and make a switch from a P1 to a new P1... Then some a55hat who either doesn't know any better or DOESN'T CARE, spawns a Tiger ans sits there to wait for the AO to get going. No, the a55hat isn't playing in a squad, he doesn't work with the team... etc.

Man. Having EWS get lowered helps things get set up, which is important to keeping a sense of cohesion going.

I'd compromise at say, 1,750M, but not if the 2,000M setting includes the FB in the sphere of detection.

Or... make little farmhouses and when you drive up to them the peasants rush inside and set off flares or build fires to let the town know the shetstorm is a'comin'!

hahaha

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