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silversoil

Medic ideas help plez!

34 posts in this topic

this thread is about how a medic class would work , give your ideas below and if you agree with an idea about how a medic class would work , just say i agree while quoting the idea you agree with . i personally think it would be in a series of steps , and depending were the player was hit , step 1 , morphine , step 2 , pain killers , etc.

Edited by silversoil

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this thread is about how a medic class would work , give your ideas below and if you agree with an idea about how a medic class would work , just say i agree while quoting the idea you agree with . i personally think it would be in a series of steps , and depending were the player was hit , step 1 , morphine , step 2 , pain killers , etc.

Agree, those steps should stop HP lost and make it not count as KIA. And after that, those who are wounded if in the proximity of a medic can be considered RES rather than MIA should they choose to despawn.

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I think the way a medic class was best presented would be the player gets the kill and the body remains in an unconscious state for a specified period of time. Maybe 5-15 minutes then any medic can then move in and perform a medical recovery and the timer for resupply on that unit would be reduced. At the very least medics would get points.

Medics would be unarmed and impervious to damage and have a bright red cross or distinguishing markings.

All of this would create additional strain on the system as bodies would have to be tracked and the benefit for players in these roles would be minimal especially if medics only get points and do not affect supply.

Therefore I am against medics as a unit that would have a significant impact on the games subscription levels and as a strain on the development focus and resources for what would end up being in my opinion little bang for the buck as is said.

A reprisal and adjustment to the engineer and adding an engineers vehicle would have a greater impact and have more return in investment from my point of view.

In addition, even though CRS has posted that a scout role is not being considered, I would think a scout with more powerful binoculars and minimally armed with special abilities such as marking targets on the map through visual acquisition and the ability to ppo camouflage netting on vehicles and possibly some other unique features would be a greater draw and more efficient way to attract the passive role player. At least that is my personal opinion on the matter with all due respect.

S!

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I think the way a medic class was best presented would be the player gets the kill and the body remains in an unconscious state for a specified period of time. Maybe 5-15 minutes then any medic can then move in and perform a medical recovery and the timer for resupply on that unit would be reduced. At the very least medics would get points.

Medics would be unarmed and impervious to damage and have a bright red cross or distinguishing markings.

All of this would create additional strain on the system as bodies would have to be tracked and the benefit for players in these roles would be minimal especially if medics only get points and do not affect supply.

Therefore I am against medics as a unit that would have a significant impact on the games subscription levels and as a strain on the development focus and resources for what would end up being in my opinion little bang for the buck as is said.

A reprisal and adjustment to the engineer and adding an engineers vehicle would have a greater impact and have more return in investment from my point of view.

In addition, even though CRS has posted that a scout role is not being considered, I would think a scout with more powerful binoculars and minimally armed with special abilities such as marking targets on the map through visual acquisition and the ability to ppo camouflage netting on vehicles and possibly some other unique features would be a greater draw and more efficient way to attract the passive role player. At least that is my personal opinion on the matter with all due respect.

S!

i agree , sorta like arma , but what if bandages were added to a riflemen or some other already existing class , to stop yourself from bleeding / mass bleeding leading to unconsciousness .would that change your idea?

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Gaming companies are businesses and need to maximize revenue. One of the things that gaming companies have to consider is whether they maximize revenue by focusing all of their development resources on adding content for their veteran customers, or instead they should focus on attracting new customers.

Another question has to do with what kind of customers the game attracts, and doesn't attract. WWIIOL, for instance, attracts FPS fans, and to some extent strategic-management players for the HC functionality. It doesn't have features to attract healers, or builders, or logisticians. Those are all existing classes of game customers that could play a game like WWIIOL if it had some of their preferred gameplay-type.

Some years ago a guy named Lum, pretty well respected in game design circles as a business-model thinker, proposed that games (like, for instance, WWIIOL) should maximize revenue by adding features to attract more customer classes, instead of limiting themselves to mostly just FPS fans.

Maybe with that in mind, several years ago in a design forum, CRS discussed how a possible Medic player-class might work. The general idea, as I recall, was something like Stonecomet's first sentence of his post above.

There'd be no effect on kills and deaths. That's already designed. The modeled wounds are all serious-and-beyond. There are no modeled wounds that can be bandaged up, so there's no role for self-bandaging or for a Medic that could magically heal someone to such an extent that they could go back to fighting.

The Medic theory, rather, would be to get to "dying" server tracked avatars--left on the battlefield for a period of time when a wounded or kill-credited player despawns--and try to stabilize them so they could be (virtually) evacuated to a field hospital, where they'd be out of action but alive.

Additionally, the Medic class also could do Rescues.

It's worth noting that Medic/Rescue gameplay specifically would not be designed to appeal to FPS players. The whole point would be to attract an additional, different customer class. Thus whether such gameplay would appeal to current customers wouldn't be the right question.

Edited by jwilly

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It's worth noting that Medic/Rescue gameplay specifically would not be designed to appeal to FPS players. The whole point would be to attract an additional, different customer class. Thus whether such gameplay would appeal to current customers wouldn't be the right question.

With all due respect, your statement is a blanket one and does NOT apply to all FPS players, or to current customers. I for one, would LOVE to see a well designed Medic unit.

I love this game... It has so much going for it. In my experience, and I have played most of the WWII FPS games for PC ( I just don't do console), this is the best WWII game I have ever played.

That said, I am always amazed at the absolute horror and apparent anger players have whenever this subject comes up. TBH I just don't get it. Now I do understand that many want CRS to focus on fixing bugs. I understand people wanting some new toys. Fair enough...

But people don't say, "put Medics at the bottom of the design roadmap"... They react with all the ferver of Villagers going after Frankenstein's monster, complete with the torches and pitchforks. THAT I have problems understanding or accepting.

Is it that the community is not willing to really accept folks who want to devote their time to support, rather than direct combat roles? After considering it, it actually seems this way. Because anytime the Medic class comes up, Vets start having aneurisms.

I really understand the concept of avoiding the norm, where Medics pop up and completely heal someone who was about dead. Folks don't want the Life system we have to change, as they see it as more realistic. Or at least some say so.

My guess is that folks DON't want players who aren't combat jocks to start coming into the game. Well surprise... We are already here. And we are also paying customers. And there are a lot of folks who play other WWII games who play support classes like medics.

If all you want is for me to grab a rifle and run straight into combat... well no. I choose how I play. And I, and others like me, would like to have the option provided to play the way we want to. And stopping us from having a medic class is not going to make us play the way some would have us play. We will still be rebuilding AI and driving trucks and blowing FBs...because that's what we want to do. Heck, I have been waiting for the multi-crew bg to get fixed so that I could have some fun in the air AS A GUNNER. I don't want to fly a bomber and try to switch back and forth from station to station trying to do 5 things at once. I want to ride along and chat and make friends and shoot when the bomber gets attacked. Now some would say that if I want to help I should fly a second bomber and contribute... but guess what? If I have to do that to go on a bombing mission...I'm out. Twitch combat is not for everybody.

And for those who are against medics because their stats might drop? Why do you object to having more baby seals to club? Medics, if done well might help prevent some kills, but not likely to large percentage.

Our damage system would not need to change to have a medic. Medics would not have to be a combat class, but they could also carry ammo and smoke like riflemen.

For the simmers out there, and for those who want realism...guess what? WWII HAD medics! They were an integral unit. And they could be here. There are a number fo ways they could be implemented, and done well. So please don't use the realism excuse. It's a really leaky boat.

And in the end...If you don't want to play a Medic...don't...that's your choice... but it's not alway ours, and I think we deserve the chance to have other options if we want them. Oh, and one last thing... support players contribute greatly to this game, whether you want to admit it or not.

!S

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i agree , sorta like arma , but what if bandages were added to a riflemen or some other already existing class , to stop yourself from bleeding / mass bleeding leading to unconsciousness .would that change your idea?

It would not change my mind having bandages. Someone more historically versed could probably give better insight. More often than not the bandages a soldier carried was used on a fellow soldier or a medic without supplies as the helping wounded soldier was usually in shock and required assistance to staunch a wound severe enough to cause massive bleeding.

I am not totally against the medic class as an added unit in the future beyond some other additions/improvements and it could attract and compliment support minded player types. Eventually. If it was added it would be best to implement it like I stated with no affect on k/d only as an effect on supply so that an avatar that is saved gets the RES timer instead of the KIA resupply timer based on RDP. My biggest concern is the server having to track all those unconscious avatars. If that can be handled without undue strain on the server and the CRS team has the time and resources to implement it then I do not object greatly to the idea.

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My biggest concern is the server having to track all those unconscious avatars. If that can be handled without undue strain on the server and the CRS team has the time and resources to implement it then I do not object greatly to the idea.

but what if i said they don't have to be unconscious . they could just be a animation a a soldier holding his torso up with his right hand and his left would be holding the wound , and depending on what type of weapon or were he was hit would matter in his remaining ''time to live ''

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My biggest concern is the server having to track all those unconscious avatars. If that can be handled without undue strain on the server and the CRS team has the time and resources to implement it then I do not object greatly to the idea.

But what if they don't have to be unconscious . they could just be a animation a a soldier holding his torso up with his right hand and his left would be holding the wound , and depending on what type of weapon or were he was hit would matter in his remaining ''time to live ''

Well this has not been something that I worried about too much. The game already has a setting that shows dead soldiers for a few minutes, at least on my settings.

In my own thoughts on creating a Medic unit, I hadn't thought about the unit interacting with "dead" units; but I could see the potential for the Medic to reach and "treat" the downed unit before it disappears, causing it to become a RES result back to supply. Unfortunately, if I am correct, the dead soldier graphic generated after death is not tracked by the resupply system, as the unit is already considered KIA.

Edited by Quincannon

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Thanks for providing the links, Jwilly.

Nothing there changes my view that we could adds a Medic.

In mutliple postings you hold the view that EVERY injury is serious and life threatening. I disagree, with or without Medics. There have a been a number of times when I have been wounded just down to the first level. It has happened when I was shot. It happened when I got bounced out of a truck. It happened when i didn't run away from a satchel far or fast enough. it happened from grenades. I was still up and going, but I think it slowed me somewhat. If I had to look at that kind of wound, I would consider it a light wound. (Grazed. Shot in the arm or leg but can still use the limb, twisted ankle. Hit by shrapnel) These are the kinds of wounds that were often treated in the field by medics, and in many cases the soldier was able to keep on the mission because he was bandaged up/received First Aid.

Yes, the majority of wounds are major. I am not suggesting a magic healer, but I am not the first to suggest that First Aid be added to stop bleeding and if the character is only lightly wounded, to effectively restore him to "full health." Personally I could see Medic as being able to restore a soldier's damage from 50% to 75% or from 75% to full. Or at least stop bleeding, if they can get to an infantry unit fast enough. Actually, that last is not a bad idea.

And as far as the need to model wounds? I don't think it necessary. The better option would be for the icons of wounded units to change to a wounded color. That way Medics could follow the map and comms to reach wounded soldiers. No need for an overall graphics change.

I still believe that a Medic could be designed that would be playable without disrupting the entire game, and without being a "magic healer."

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So here goes...

Combat Medic Unit

medic_ambulance.jpg

Loadout:

Binoculars

First Aid Kit (6)

Smoke grenades

Ammo for resupply

What are the features of the unit?

The Medic renders first aid to stabilize wounded units in the field.

How does First Aid work?

First, the Medic is not a magical healer.They treat wounds, and one of the most common issues is bleeding. Consider that units often get wounded, and then they watch their health and stamina bars drop as they "bleed out"

So I suggest a change to this. Consider that once a unit gets wounded, there is a slight delay..say 1 minute before the bleeding begins. (In real life it could take awhile before blood loss was a danger); then, once it begins, it takes another minute to bleed out. As far as most units, it would just take longer for the wounds to take effect. It is important to note that this would have NO effect on wounds that kill the unit instantly. Just the ones where the unit survives getting wounded and currently takes about 10 seconds to bleed down to half health or further.

Once a unit is wounded... Their icon on the map changes color to yellow, as does their identifying callsign above their heads. The player now has the option of calling for a medic both on side chat and on Teamspeak. At this point, the Medic has 2 minutes to reach the wounded soldier. Once the Medic reaches the soldier, they apply first aid to stop the bleeding. Bandaging a wounded unit takes 15 seconds, during which bleeding / health loss is stopped. Once treated, the wounded unit loses no more health or stamina unless they get wounded again.

Wounded_zpszsgnprzo.jpg

Wounded2_zpsznxouwhi.jpg

The Medic can help Rescue wounded or missing units.

The Medic unit can build a 'First Aid Tent' PPO. It is destructable, but may be rebuilt after a 4-5 minute timer delay. MIA units that despawn at it are treated as an RES; and RES units are treated as an RTB. This also happens if they are wounded, preventing additional supply delay time. This is the advantage of despawning at the First Aid tent when wounded, over the truck MSPs. Medics can also use this PPO to resupply their First Aid kits.

7087889415_3b71f9dbc2_m.jpg

The Medic can assist other units by scouting, throwing smoke, or resupplying ammunition.

Medics can assist CP capture timers as additional bodies, but may not capture on their own.

Medics may not be mission leaders and can only spawn into other unit missions.

The Medic unit has slightly more stamina than other units, to allow them to run more quickly to reach wounded units.

Medics can be killed, but enemy units will receive NO points for killing them.

Medics would get points for administering First-Aid, for guarding, and for those who despawned at their PPO.

With this model Medics are able to locate and proceed to wounded infantry units. Medics are able to treat wounds to mitigate their severity. By placing temporary Field Hospital tents, they allow wounded units to return to supply faster, and allow MIA units to be Rescued. Medics can also support other units through resupply and smoke cover.

CRS has mentioned that they are interested in adding a Medic Unit. I hope that this design might be workable. It's success, however, would rely on the possibility that CRS could change the Bleeding timers, in order to give Medic players time to respond to wounded players.

Another possible secondary effect that Medics could perform would be to "stabilze" heavily wounded infantry, which would work by removing the heartbeat and clearing the dimmed vision effect. No health or stamina would be restored.

All of this assumes that CRS has priorotized its resources and this is pretty far down the road in R&D. If it worked, I believe that it would establish a workable support class, and add even more variety for our player base to enjoy playing.

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So here goes...

Combat Medic Unit

medic_ambulance.jpg

Loadout:

Binoculars

First Aid Kit (6)

Smoke grenades

Ammo for resupply

What are the features of the unit?

The Medic renders first aid to stabilize wounded units in the field.

How does First Aid work?

First, the Medic is not a magical healer.They treat wounds, and one of the most common issues is bleeding. Consider that units often get wounded, and then they watch their health and stamina bars drop as they "bleed out"

So I suggest a change to this. Consider that once a unit gets wounded, there is a slight delay..say 1 minute before the bleeding begins. (In real life it could take awhile before blood loss was a danger); then, once it begins, it takes another minute to bleed out. As far as most units, it would just take longer for the wounds to take effect. It is important to note that this would have NO effect on wounds that kill the unit instantly. Just the ones where the unit survives getting wounded and currently takes about 10 seconds to bleed down to half health or further.

Once a unit is wounded... Their icon on the map changes color to yellow, as does their identifying callsign above their heads. The player now has the option of calling for a medic both on side chat and on Teamspeak. At this point, the Medic has 2 minutes to reach the wounded soldier. Once the Medic reaches the soldier, they apply first aid to stop the bleeding. Bandaging a wounded unit takes 15 seconds, during which bleeding / health loss is stopped. Once treated, the wounded unit loses no more health or stamina unless they get wounded again.

Wounded_zpszsgnprzo.jpg

Wounded2_zpsznxouwhi.jpg

The Medic can help Rescue wounded or missing units.

The Medic unit can build a 'First Aid Tent' PPO. It is destructable, but may be rebuilt after a 4-5 minute timer delay. MIA units that despawn at it are treated as an RES; and RES units are treated as an RTB. This also happens if they are wounded, preventing additional supply delay time. This is the advantage of despawning at the First Aid tent when wounded, over the truck MSPs. Medics can also use this PPO to resupply their First Aid kits.

7087889415_3b71f9dbc2_m.jpg

The Medic can assist other units by scouting, throwing smoke, or resupplying ammunition.

Medics can assist CP capture timers as additional bodies, but may not capture on their own.

Medics may not be mission leaders and can only spawn into other unit missions.

The Medic unit has slightly more stamina than other units, to allow them to run more quickly to reach wounded units.

Medics can be killed, but enemy units will receive NO points for killing them.

Medics would get points for administering First-Aid, for guarding, and for those who despawned at their PPO.

With this model Medics are able to locate and proceed to wounded infantry units. Medics are able to treat wounds to mitigate their severity. By placing temporary Field Hospital tents, they allow wounded units to return to supply faster, and allow MIA units to be Rescued. Medics can also support other units through resupply and smoke cover.

CRS has mentioned that they are interested in adding a Medic Unit. I hope that this design might be workable. It's success, however, would rely on the possibility that CRS could change the Bleeding timers, in order to give Medic players time to respond to wounded players.

Another possible secondary effect that Medics could perform would be to "stabilze" heavily wounded infantry, which would work by removing the heartbeat and clearing the dimmed vision effect. No health or stamina would be restored.

All of this assumes that CRS has priorotized its resources and this is pretty far down the road in R&D. If it worked, I believe that it would establish a workable support class, and add even more variety for our player base to enjoy playing.

Should they have a pistol to defend themselves in case the enemy decides to shoot anyway? I think the German medics have a pistol but I can't remember if the Allied ones have them.

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If they're armed, they'll be used as combat units, and enemy players will shoot at them out of prudent caution since there will be no way to quickly tell if an individual medic is acting as a medic or acting as a combatant.

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down vote on medics.

Not to be a jerk..but what is your reason? Is it because you would simply prefer CRS to make other stuff? Is it because you feel that a medic is unrealistic in a WWII game? Is it because you feel that it would hurt your kill stats? Is it because you think that the game should only offer combat options and that players who want to play something else should not let the door hit them on the way out?

I say the last, not to be accusatory, but because I have seen posts from some folks in the past intimating that players who are not direct combat players are not only not helping their side, but are wasting resources... (I believe the terms "losers" and "mouthbreathers" were tossed around a few times.)

I ask because when people just say no... it may actually just be because they have an issue with an aspect of how the concept was introduced. Interestingly enough, I have seen some of the best ideas that were originally nixed wind up coming about because of the objections that were explained by those opposed to the idea.

Can you give us your take, good, Sir?

Edited by Quincannon

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If they're armed, they'll be used as combat units, and enemy players will shoot at them out of prudent caution since there will be no way to quickly tell if an individual medic is acting as a medic or acting as a combatant.

But won't they still be shot at since there will not be any penalties anyway and it helps hinder the supply of the enemy? There is no stopping them.

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this thread is about how a medic class would work , give your ideas below and if you agree with an idea about how a medic class would work , just say i agree while quoting the idea you agree with . i personally think it would be in a series of steps , and depending were the player was hit , step 1 , morphine , step 2 , pain killers , etc.

FRU=Medic

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FRU=Medic

OK... but one question..

Most of the time when an AO is on, everybody is trying to get to town without giving away the position of the MSP. It's hard enought o do this when people are only going ONE way... what about when people start trying to go back out TO the MSP? If I were defending and I saw an injured unit heading AWAY from town...I would probably follow to see where they were headed.

Honestly, medic or not, most players do not try to get back out of town to the MSP in an attempt to RTB. If they did, or would... then your statement might be right, but as it is right now. you and I both know that if we asked players who would turn around in the middle of an attack (or a defense in many cases) when they were merely wounded and head for the MSP, very few people would say that that is what they do.

Think about it,,, we try to hide MSPs and try to set it up so people go over, under around and through to get to town to avoid coming straight in and giving the MSP away. It would be different when trying to get back to it. And since most people play it out until they die, and most wouldn't risk exposing their MSP just to save one unit.

MSPs/FRUs do not equal medics. 99% of the time people just play until they die. It's not as if they have a viable alternative. :rolleyes:

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Not to be a jerk..but what is your reason? Is it because you would simply prefer CRS to make other stuff? Is it because you feel that a medic is unrealistic in a WWII game? Is it because you feel that it would hurt your kill stats? Is it because you think that the game should only offer combat options and that players who want to play something else should not let the door hit them on the way out?

I say the last, not to be accusatory, but because I have seen posts from some folks in the past intimating that players who are not direct combat players are not only not helping their side, but are wasting resources... (I believe the terms "losers" and "mouthbreathers" were tossed around a few times.)

I ask because when people just say no... it may actually just be because they have an issue with an aspect of how the concept was introduced. Interestingly enough, I have seen some of the best ideas that were originally nixed wind up coming about because of the objections that were explained by those opposed to the idea.

Can you give us your take, good, Sir?

i want a medic in game so i can revive a downed teammate , and to help keep a capture of a depot by paras going , not to just say , OH LOOK AT ME , IRMA MEDIC , RESPECT ME

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Thanks for providing the links, Jwilly.

Nothing there changes my view that we could adds a Medic.

In mutliple postings you hold the view that EVERY injury is serious and life threatening. I disagree, with or without Medics. There have a been a number of times when I have been wounded just down to the first level. It has happened when I was shot. It happened when I got bounced out of a truck. It happened when i didn't run away from a satchel far or fast enough. it happened from grenades. I was still up and going, but I think it slowed me somewhat. If I had to look at that kind of wound, I would consider it a light wound. (Grazed. Shot in the arm or leg but can still use the limb, twisted ankle. Hit by shrapnel) These are the kinds of wounds that were often treated in the field by medics, and in many cases the soldier was able to keep on the mission because he was bandaged up/received First Aid.

Yes, the majority of wounds are major. I am not suggesting a magic healer, but I am not the first to suggest that First Aid be added to stop bleeding and if the character is only lightly wounded, to effectively restore him to "full health." Personally I could see Medic as being able to restore a soldier's damage from 50% to 75% or from 75% to full. Or at least stop bleeding, if they can get to an infantry unit fast enough. Actually, that last is not a bad idea.

And as far as the need to model wounds? I don't think it necessary. The better option would be for the icons of wounded units to change to a wounded color. That way Medics could follow the map and comms to reach wounded soldiers. No need for an overall graphics change.

I still believe that a Medic could be designed that would be playable without disrupting the entire game, and without being a "magic healer."

i highly agree with this

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