PITTPETE

Increase push speed on Flak 36

60 posts in this topic

Watch, any second now one of these wise guys will chime in that the 88 is SO uber.

9/10 you set up and die to a rifle.

One guy with a rifle.

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Increasing the push speed would increase the weapon's overall kill stats. The whole point of the suggestion, of course, is to make it more lethal.

Probably the reason it was slowed down was to decrease its kill stats, as a side-to-side balancing adjustment. The game has to be balanced to survive commercially.

So, to make this weapon more lethal, at least one French and/or British weapon would have to have improved kill stats, too.

That design requirement is why it's always more effective to suggest gameplay changes in triads or quads.

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Watch, any second now one of these wise guys will chime in that the 88 is SO uber.

9/10 you set up and die to a rifle.

One guy with a rifle.

Consider you have the 88 from the start.

Allies dont get anything near as powerfull untill tier 2 or 3 (76 mm)

We also have the same push speed as you do.

Look at how big the piece of equipment is. It should not be easy to push.

:D

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Consider you have the 88 from the start.

Allies dont get anything near as powerfull untill tier 2 or 3 (76 mm)

We also have the same push speed as you do.

Look at how big the piece of equipment is. It should not be easy to push.

:D

Powerful in what sense? Powerful gun sure no doubt. However, the Axis get nothing like the char, s35, and Matilda. The 88 is supposed to be counter to these weapons. It already takes two people (or one person with a toe account) to operate it. Then take into account that it has a very high profile and that every allied unit except trucks can kill it easily. Not to mention it really only shines when you can get a firing position 2K and over. Even then I find it usually dies to an air strike quickly if the Allies have any basic communication going on. All this adds up to a unit that is highly over rated. I suspect that's why Xoom mentioned a need to look at the 88 during the post patch rat chat. I'm of the opinion that only a PPO that can hold the 88 will solve the issues of employing to great effectiveness in game.

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It should not be easy to push.

Yep. In fact, it should be impossible to push up even a slight hill on pavement, or on level ground off pavement. Towing only.

But, the game never should have been designed with tow-required guns that don't have tow vehicles integrated into the models.

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Actually, rather than be slowed down as is often believed (because stuff is almost always nerfed rather than buffed) ... the last thing the 88 got (and all other ATG's as well) was an increase in push speed.

Just for the record.

I was the last one "all those years ago" to adjust data like that, and I can still remember back that far. Just. :D

PS: Don't view this to mean I am saying "it shouldn't be sped up" because that would be erroneous, I did not say that. I might even agree that it could be sped up as part of gameplay, I didn't give an opinion on that. I just don't think (to be accurate if that matters) one should attach the need to speed it up on the basis it was made slow, then slower, to annoy someone or whatever. That puts the focus on why in the wrong light completely.

"Why" should always be based on a series of positive outcomes that make any such change the best decision, rather than attack it from the opposite direction. That's an opinion. ;)

Edited by DOC
1 person likes this

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Until the Churchill VII the brit rank pool has a mare killing 88's because it lacks HE. Thus after the experience with german ATG'S in North Africa the British went for the 75 mm with HP over penetration capability as in NA it was ATG'S that where the problem so the 88 is not always killed and has a distinct advantage over the brit armour pool.

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I started playing in 2003 and remember pushing an 88. It was easier to push than it is now.

Puting aside all DOC's mumbo jumbo, how about a slight increase in the 88's push speed for gameplay sake.

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If you increase the push speed of an ATG like the Pak40 by 50% then this will have a pretty noticeable effect. You increase the push speed of an 88 by 50% or even 100% and it will still be slow as. 88's rely on half tracks for mobility and I think they should always have to.

For keeping 88's in the fight I think from Tier 2 onwards there should be a new unit of 88's available with an armoured gun shield fitted which would protect against rifle caliber fire. This would represent how by the mid war the fitting of armoured shields to 88's inteded for ATG use was widespread. The two units would be:

Flak 36 88mm ATG (current 88)

Flak 36 88mm ATG Mk2 Schild (88 with armoured shield)

(or whatever the technical designation was for the armoured shield modelled in game).

The 88 with the armoured shield would weigh more so be slower to push than an original.

Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-783-0109-19%2C_Nordafrika%2C_Zugkraftwagen_mit_Flak_%28cropped%29.jpg

Of course it requires new moddelling and all that.

Edited by parallama

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Well, hell... of course the 88 is supposed to be towed. it was a heavy piece of equipment.

Towable guns shouldn't rely on having a tow account for yourself if you want to take one out for a spin.

Maybe set up the heavy towers so that when you spawn one, you can choose which heavy gun to tow, Flak or Pak.

Tick off the box, and you spawn with one attached, and of course you can tow others.

Get to your location of choice, set a fru and deploy the gun. truck goes away.

You get to play guns.

OF course, you have to get by the hurricanes with TWELVE mgs... hahahha

When will that be balanced?

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Then take into account that it has a very high profile and that every allied unit except trucks can kill it easily.

Actually, due to the lack of a gun shield, the 88 is, despite it's size, relatively difficult to take out at distance. If I am in an ATG, I will happily engage normal ATGs because I can take them out with one round, I wouldn't engage an 88 because I cannot reliably kill the gunner with 2-3 shots.

I can imagine that it is more susceptible to tanks appearing close by and spraying with MG.

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Nah. Its the infantry guy with the rifle, several hundred yards away that gets you.

Yep. 9/10 it's ONE guy with a rifle that heard the HT from 1.4km out and was either almost to where you were gonna set up or already there... You deploy, and *snap! *snap!

Your crew is dead.

Or... someone spawns a bofors and snuffs your crew out. That is easier to repel, because if you're set up and have your lanes ranged out, you can HE them before they can even set up -moistly.

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The allies get the pan - basically its a rapid deployment mobile ATG system that the axis side has no equivalent of. When the new truck based frus system came out the pan is a huge advantage for the allied side.

The pan can get out fast and destoy axis frus so fast, or defend allied setup frus much faster than anythng that the axis side can deploy.

This is unrealistic,specially during the axis blitzkrieg of France which is not modelled historically anyways - if it was, the axis would get 3 AOs to allies 1AO in tier zero to model axis tactical initiative- but only stuff like the tank Matilda and its heavy armor is modelled in early tiers - it is true allies had better armored tanks in this tier - but alliied tanks did not have true fully and indepenent mobilsed tactical armored brigades at this time like the acis did. Armor amd guns are modelled but axis superior leadership and panzer tactics are not modelled in this game during the early stages of the war.

Of course if the game modelled blitzkreig initiative then it is only fair to give the allies quantitative advantage in later tiers. I would agree with this.

Edited by krazydog

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Careful... tormented and pulfer will be in here saying the axis can't have a fast moving ATG scout car like the 234 if you keep this up.

It's a shame the panzers and stugs all have the same one shot splode spot; and that the DAC and Pan can roll for 500M with their engines off.

While they die easily to ALL Axis tanks, they also slide up along the broad side and wipe out a lot of tanks.

It'd be nice to see even ONE Axis scout car able to do that.

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Hey, they already gave unhistorical tiger traverse so why not?

I mean this us like making another Indiana Jones movie.

What could go wrong?

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Not that the Sherman/Stuart/Crusaders turrets are all so fast... because clearly they're not, right?

Or would you agree that the Axis having just ONE tank with a turret traverse speed equivalent to the Shermans somehow makes it unfair, while the allies tanks all have screaming fast traverse rates?

I'm not sure what you're saying here.

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Not that the Sherman/Stuart/Crusaders turrets are all so fast... because clearly they're not, right?

Or would you agree that the Axis having just ONE tank with a turret traverse speed equivalent to the Shermans somehow makes it unfair, while the allies tanks all have screaming fast traverse rates?

I'm not sure what you're saying here.

Allied depend on m10 to counter stug g and tiger (or s76 if avail).. which has a slower turnrate than tiger.

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