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Bonger

Let's say hypothetically you have an airplane on a conveyor belt

45 posts in this topic

I hate to burst everyones bubble but that airplane is going nowhere if it doesn't get off the treadmill.

Correct.

Lift has nothing to do with how fast the wheels are spinning.

Lift comes from airflow around the wings, and those aren't moving.

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I hate to burst everyones bubble but that airplane is going nowhere if it doesn't get off the treadmill.

Our special forces should be trained in the art of putting treadmills on enemy planes.

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Correct.

Lift has nothing to do with how fast the wheels are spinning.

Lift comes from airflow around the wings, and those aren't moving.

How would a treadmill stop the plane?

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How would a treadmill stop the plane?

That thing on the front where you put your ipad and water bottle would stop it.

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**** do you know?

(Assuming this is the foamer)

If the plane has an engine and it's turn on, it should take off, the propeller can produce enough lift by directing an airflow towards the surface area of the airplane, can't guarantee this would work on a standard plane it's all about weight ratio.

But in model airplanes if you simply hold the plane on your hand, turn engine to maximum it will push itself forward.

But if you mean a plane without an engine and proper then it wouldn't but that's a stupid question.

Edited by pbveteran

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The treadmill/conveyor belt passes beneath the plane, which will move with the treadmill/conveyor belt until it has sufficient forward thrust to overcome frictional forces keeping the aircraft in place on the "ground" surface (the belt). Once the propeller (engine now on) starts biting at the air in front of the plane and providing sufficient thrust, it can move forwards as the air is thrust to the rear, the wheels simply spin faster than they would on a normal runway to allow the treadmill/conveyor belt to continue passing underneath the plane in a rearwards direction. Since the wheels/tires are not geared to the aircraft in any fashion relative to motion forwards or backwards, they simply rotate at whatever speed the contact patch underneath them passes by. The treadmill/conveyor belt could be stationary or running at any speed whatsoever and not affect relative motion of the plane which responds ONLY to the air the propeller thrusts to the rear as it turns.

Thus the plane can move forward, as the motion of the treadmill/conveyor belt only causes the wheels to spin faster than they would if the treadmill/conveyor belt were a stationary surface, as it would be if the the plane were on a runway. Since the treadmill/conveyor belt is in motion, the wheels spin faster than in a normal runway takeoff due to the tire contact patch, but they have no influence whatsoever on the aircraft's position relative to the "ground" as the wheels can spin freely at whatever speed the ground passing below the plane demands of them.

The ground, moving (as in the treadmill/conveyor belt scenario) or stationary (as in a regular runway) has no influence on the plane responding to thrust from the propeller, except as a supporting base on which the landing gear rides cushioned by the tires mounted to the free spinning wheels.

If the plane normally takes off at 100 mph ground speed, if for example the treadmill/conveyor belt is running in a rearwards direction at a duplicate 100 mph ... the wheels will spin at a speed representing 200 mph on a stationary runway. The plane will still take off when the wings are pulled through the air by the propeller at what would be 100 mph if the treadmill/conveyor belt were stationary, no matter what relative speed the wheels are turning at greater than the 100 mph they would normally be doing on a runway at take off.

Since the wheels are not geared to the airspeed or thrust, the engine or the propeller, but are able to spin freely at any speed demanded by the tires contact patch, the only thing a moving runway (the treadmill/conveyor belt scenario) does is cause the wheels to spin faster than they would in a normal runway take off, they cannot inhibit the planes ability to take off no matter how fast they spin as a result of relative motion to the rear as a result of the runway moving to the rear, since in this example the runway is a treadmill/conveyor belt in motion underneath the aircraft.

Think of the "run-up" from tick over as engine revolutions rise in a regular takeoff scenario (on a normal runway) ... the plane does not move instantly, until engine revolutions reach a point where the propeller (geared to the engine) achieves sufficient thrust to overcome static inertia and frictional forces keeping the plane stationary on the ground. In the treadmill/conveyor belt experiment, the plane WOULD move backwards sitting on the moving belt until this thrust point is reached. Then it would slowly begin to gain forward speed, accelerating as it normally would, although the wheels would be turning at an artificially higher rotational speed relative to the aircraft's forward airspeed, but this is not going to inhibit the aircraft moving through the air on thrust from the propeller geared to the engine ... as the wheels are freewheeling and can spin at ANY speed required of them by contact through the tires with the "ground".

Only a lack of forward thrust from the propeller geared to the engine can prevent take off, or of course, additionally, the loss of the aircraft's wings could also inhibit take off, or loading the aircraft in excess of it's maximum take off weight.

Edited by DOC

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The treadmill/conveyor belt passes beneath the plane, which will move with the treadmill/conveyor belt until it has sufficient forward thrust to overcome frictional forces keeping the aircraft in place on the "ground" surface (the belt). Once the propeller (engine now on) starts biting at the air in front of the plane and providing sufficient thrust, it can move forwards as the air is thrust to the rear, the wheels simply spin faster than they would on a normal runway to allow the treadmill/conveyor belt to continue passing underneath the plane in a rearwards direction. Since the wheels/tires are not geared to the aircraft in any fashion relative to motion forwards or backwards, they simply rotate at whatever speed the contact patch underneath them passes by. The treadmill/conveyor belt could be stationary or running at any speed whatsoever and not affect relative motion of the plane which responds ONLY to the air the propeller thrusts to the rear as it turns.

Thus the plane can move forward, as the motion of the treadmill/conveyor belt only causes the wheels to spin faster than they would if the treadmill/conveyor belt were a stationary surface, as it would be if the the plane were on a runway. Since the treadmill/conveyor belt is in motion, the wheels spin faster than in a normal runway takeoff due to the tire contact patch, but they have no influence whatsoever on the aircraft's position relative to the "ground" as the wheels can spin freely at whatever speed the ground passing below the plane demands of them.

The ground, moving (as in the treadmill/conveyor belt scenario) or stationary (as in a regular runway) has no influence on the plane responding to thrust from the propeller, except as a supporting base on which the landing gear rides cushioned by the tires mounted to the free spinning wheels.

If the plane normally takes off at 100 mph ground speed, if for example the treadmill/conveyor belt is running in a rearwards direction at a duplicate 100 mph ... the wheels will spin at a speed representing 200 mph on a stationary runway. The plane will still take off when the wings are pulled through the air by the propeller at what would be 100 mph if the treadmill/conveyor belt were stationary, no matter what relative speed the wheels are turning at greater than the 100 mph they would normally be doing on a runway at take off.

Since the wheels are not geared to the airspeed or thrust, the engine or the propeller, but are able to spin freely at any speed demanded by the tires contact patch, the only thing a moving runway (the treadmill/conveyor belt scenario) does is cause the wheels to spin faster than they would in a normal runway take off, they cannot inhibit the planes ability to take off no matter how fast they spin as a result of relative motion to the rear as a result of the runway moving to the rear, since in this example the runway is a treadmill/conveyor belt in motion underneath the aircraft.

Think of the "run-up" from tick over as engine revolutions rise in a regular takeoff scenario (on a normal runway) ... the plane does not move instantly, until engine revolutions reach a point where the propeller (geared to the engine) achieves sufficient thrust to overcome static inertia and frictional forces keeping the plane stationary on the ground. In the treadmill/conveyor belt experiment, the plane WOULD move backwards sitting on the moving belt until this thrust point is reached. Then it would slowly begin to gain forward speed, accelerating as it normally would, although the wheels would be turning at an artificially higher rotational speed relative to the aircraft's forward airspeed, but this is not going to inhibit the aircraft moving through the air on thrust from the propeller geared to the engine ... as the wheels are freewheeling and can spin at ANY speed required of them by contact through the tires with the "ground".

Only a lack of forward thrust from the propeller geared to the engine can prevent take off, or of course, additionally, the loss of the aircraft's wings could also inhibit take off, or loading the aircraft in excess of it's maximum take off weight.

You ruined it. No more psuedo OT in this forum.

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I don't have permission to access this page. This vexes me

This question of airplanes on treadmills (and the 'no access' page and other threads) have been conclusively proven to have been solved by the introduction into WWII Online of 'AIRFRUS'.

These in-air floating frus, place-able only by air transport units, within one air square of placed AOs/DOs, then allow the insta-spawning, at full-velocity, in the air, of fighter and bomber units previously based in the 'origin airfield' from whence the AIRFRU was placed.

AIRFRUS are placeable at altitudes between 3K-10k and the interior mechanic has a 'treadmill' type function that 'launches' the fighters/bombers at speed over target.

AIRFRUS also allow:

> mid-air resupply

> mid-air repair (other than dead crew)

AIRFRUS are attackable by both enemy air and aaa units.

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This question of airplanes on treadmills (and the 'no access' page and other threads) have been conclusively proven to have been solved by the introduction into WWII Online of 'AIRFRUS'.

somewhere in an old 'Hangar' thread there is a CRS drawing of the AirFru unit.

speaking of which this thread belongs in "The Hangar" or perhaps OT?

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somewhere in an old 'Hangar' thread there is a CRS drawing of the AirFru unit.

speaking of which this thread belongs in "The Hangar" or perhaps OT?

I'm part of the original OT crew popping my head in to say hello with the Welcome Back program.

The old guard doesn't have access to the Off Topic sub forum with their free access so we've been instructed to post our general nonsense here during our stay.

So I decided to start with an homage to the original "airplane vs treadmill" thread that i created waaaaay back in the day before it got internet famous.

And anyone who thinks the plane can't take off is a fookin' prawn idiot

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This question of airplanes on treadmills (and the 'no access' page and other threads) have been conclusively proven to have been solved by the introduction into WWII Online of 'AIRFRUS'.

These in-air floating frus, place-able only by air transport units, within one air square of placed AOs/DOs, then allow the insta-spawning, at full-velocity, in the air, of fighter and bomber units previously based in the 'origin airfield' from whence the AIRFRU was placed.

AIRFRUS are placeable at altitudes between 3K-10k and the interior mechanic has a 'treadmill' type function that 'launches' the fighters/bombers at speed over target.

AIRFRUS also allow:

> mid-air resupply

> mid-air repair (other than dead crew)

AIRFRUS are attackable by both enemy air and aaa units.

The mechanics of how airplanes spawn from the airfru are obvious to anyone with any sort of technical education- you just need 3 treadmills, tube of lube, 1 banana, and a doll's head. But how do you keep the airfru in the air? That I don't understand.

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I'm part of the original OT crew popping my head in to say hello with the Welcome Back program.

The old guard doesn't have access to the Off Topic sub forum with their free access so we've been instructed to post our general nonsense here during our stay.

So I decided to start with an homage to the original "airplane vs treadmill" thread that i created waaaaay back in the day before it got internet famous.

And anyone who thinks the plane can't take off is a fookin' prawn idiot

See. That is your problem. You never specifically excluded gliders from the question. Therefore the idiots win the day.

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Gliders are a type of airCRAFT not airPLANE.

A "powered" fixed wing aircraft is an airplane.

This ain't my first rodeo son

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Gliders are a type of airCRAFT not airPLANE.

A "powered" fixed wing aircraft is an airplane.

This ain't my first rodeo son

you try but you fail. never cross swords with an idiot.

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you try but you fail. never cross swords with an idiot.

It's my purpose in life

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