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RDP tweaking

26 posts in this topic

6a. How does the idea work?

-lower RDP timers from 16 hours to 8 hours

-double factory repair timers (i.e. the length of time it takes for factories to repair damage)

6b. How does it affect game mechanics?

-halving RDP timers will double the amount of supply available in a 16 hour window; it will also decrease the impact of RDP bombing

-doubling factory repair timers will help increase the impact that RDP bombing; this should offset the decrease in impact of RDP bombing resultant from halving the resupply timers

6c. What is the intended goal of your idea?

-to fix chronic supply shortages (especially during but not limited to WBS) while keeping RDP bombing as a viable option

========================

This idea has quite a bit of community support in various threads throughout the forums. Please consider it!

S!

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An added bonus to this is that players can then spend time on the ground or providing CAS on the front with the time they'd save from RDP bombing runs, and allow both HCs to coordinate planned offensives if they want.

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This idea is pure genius, and I support it 100%!

Slow down factory/bridge auto-repair from 24hr to 48hr plz! Thank you!

Edited by Forrest

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I've been asking and posting for weeks that the 24 hour factory repair (4%) is too fast and needs to be changed to 48 hours (2%); nobody remembers that?

Anyways, yes, factory repair should be cut from 4% to at least 3% (36 hours) and probably 2% (48 hours).

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I've been asking and posting for weeks that the 24 hour factory repair (4%) is too fast and needs to be changed to 48 hours (2%); nobody remembers that?

Anyways, yes, factory repair should be cut from 4% to at least 3% (36 hours) and probably 2% (48 hours).

You are a smart man. I support this idea.

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I've been asking and posting for weeks that the 24 hour factory repair (4%) is too fast and needs to be changed to 48 hours (2%); nobody remembers that?

Anyways, yes, factory repair should be cut from 4% to at least 3% (36 hours) and probably 2% (48 hours).

The three of us have been asking for this for a while actually.

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I'm on board and I haven't even been in game that much recently but from past experience understand the concept and from what I've been reading on the forums could be a viable solution instead of tweaking the actual lists for server population every time.

I really like the 48 hour rebuild for bridges as well. Hopefully, CRS will take a look and consider. I wonder though if we are missing something as I don't recall any official responses to this idea which has been presented a few times. Possibly just not wanting to make too many changes at once.

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If you do this I can see a lot more supply map wide (halving resupply timers). I'm not sure we'll see many depleted flag fights at all then.

I like the idea of factory damage lasting longer definitely but not sure, if reducing resupply that much, it may prove a bit too much.

Bear in mind they've just upped the inf flags by a chunk only hours ago

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If they do a 9-hour resupply timer with 48-hour factory rebuild timers, the resupply timer will never reach higher than 18-hours (with 100% factory damage...or where we were last week with no bombing). And within 24 hours, the factory damage will already be repaired to 50% (or 13.5-hour resupply).

Its a nice way to entice sustained large-scale factory bombing (and intercepting) by increasing the lingering effect of each bombload...without game-breaking supply issues.

Of course, it'll make a single destroyer's effect on England last for TWO days, instead of one. And 111s will be one-way'ing to Amiens non-stop...but that's what we want. More bombing. Frankly, if a side is able to commit enough resources to keep the factories at 100% damage ALL the time (rare, if not totally impossible with today's playerbase)...they deserve that 9-hour resupply advantage.

Edited by Forrest

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good idea -- best of both worlds -- fast [auto] supply and slower [auto] rebuilds.

just my dirty little ho

;-)

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If they do a 9-hour resupply timer with 48-hour factory rebuild timers, the resupply timer will never reach higher than 18-hours (with 100% factory damage...or where we were last week with no bombing). And within 24 hours, the factory damage will already be repaired to 50% (or 13.5-hour resupply).

Its a nice way to entice sustained large-scale factory bombing (and intercepting) by increasing the lingering effect of each bombload...without game-breaking supply issues.

Of course, it'll make a single destroyer's effect on England last for TWO days, instead of one. And 111s will be one-way'ing to Amiens non-stop...but that's what we want. More bombing. Frankly, if a side is able to commit enough resources to keep the factories at 100% damage ALL the time (rare, if not totally impossible with today's playerbase)...they deserve that 9-hour resupply advantage.

I'll put it this way. I'm 100% behind half the idea and 50% behind the other half ;)

I'd definitely like to try it out for a map

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6a. How does the idea work?

-lower RDP timers from 16 hours to 8 hours

-double factory repair timers (i.e. the length of time it takes for factories to repair damage)

6b. How does it affect game mechanics?

-halving RDP timers will double the amount of supply available in a 16 hour window; it will also decrease the impact of RDP bombing

-doubling factory repair timers will help increase the impact that RDP bombing; this should offset the decrease in impact of RDP bombing resultant from halving the resupply timers

6c. What is the intended goal of your idea?

-to fix chronic supply shortages (especially during but not limited to WBS) while keeping RDP bombing as a viable option

========================

This idea has quite a bit of community support in various threads throughout the forums. Please consider it!

S!

Agree with this. Sounds like a fair balance.

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With RDP its always the issue around balance.

If it gives allied too much of an advantage its not a good thing to have until the planes are more balanced.

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If they do a 9-hour resupply timer with 48-hour factory rebuild timers, the resupply timer will never reach higher than 18-hours (with 100% factory damage...or where we were last week with no bombing). And within 24 hours, the factory damage will already be repaired to 50% (or 13.5-hour resupply).

Its a nice way to entice sustained large-scale factory bombing (and intercepting) by increasing the lingering effect of each bombload...without game-breaking supply issues.

Of course, it'll make a single destroyer's effect on England last for TWO days, instead of one. And 111s will be one-way'ing to Amiens non-stop...but that's what we want. More bombing. Frankly, if a side is able to commit enough resources to keep the factories at 100% damage ALL the time (rare, if not totally impossible with today's playerbase)...they deserve that 9-hour resupply advantage.

The factories need to be moved and/or shore batteries need to be able to target NAVY ships.

:cool:

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IMO, whilst I don't dislike the tweaking of RDP you're trying to drive a screw with a hammer. It might work, if you hit it hard enough; but you're either using the wrong tool for the job or you're looking at the wrong job.

fixing the amount of gear is editing the TOE tables and if the chronic shortages are that dire this is the knob you turn to fix that, not halving the resupply tickets. Well, turn the correct knob first, then look at the rest.

IMO TOEs need to have some sort of intelligence that checks pop imbalance and scales resupply tickets to offset gross numbers imbalance (as well as damage thresholds). once you can alter resupply tickets in real time based off other relevant data now you can add RDP targets all over the map that affect either the global ticket resupply timers or, affects tickets heading to a general area allowing for concentrated player activity to seriously impact their opponents ability to sustain a fight in a general region. tickets will need to be able to intelligently reroute themselves. (i wrote this up somewhere ... and can't find it in my notes so let me see if i can find it on the forums).

Once that happens, more realistic choke points where 'gear' bottles up on it's way to the front will occur and these areas with be strategically important.

*edit* so I cross pollinated memories. start here

http://discussions.battlegroundeurope.com/showpost.php?p=6926117&postcount=618

So, I didn't complete that thought. THis is an RDP thread, but my fix for RDP includes a more fleshed out TOE 2.0

so, let's start at the top.

TOEs need more layers. at least two higher 'rank' brigade flags.

all supply from the factories uses a simple OSPF style pathfinding routine.

-preference to railways

-second preference paved roads

-lastly dirt roads

supply tickets calculate the 'shortest path' to the highest level brigade flag. meaning if a tank died in front line brigade flag 1, then that flag sent its request to divhq, which in turn sent the ticket to the next level, and in turn the final 'army hq' flag. this flag then issues all tickets back to the system (factory point of origin). for those of you in networking think of this flag as many to one NAT. this flag remembers where the tickets came from but the factories never care about the ultimate destination.

now that the flow of tickets has been altered in a more realistically representative way, you should be able to eventually move this invisible supply to truck convoys and trains driven by AI and attackable by players. you don't need to explicitly 'show' the supply on the map realistically 1:1. meaning, as long as train targets and convoy targets have some damage threshold that X joules = X infantry killed and or Y tanks killed etc and instead of delivering all these supply tickets to the top level brigade flag the AI is going to go

"****, i took X joules so this many infantry, gun, and tank tickets have to be re-queued, but here are the supply tickets that 'got through'

while this is an RDP thread, if you're following along you're probably seeing how, in my vision, RDP dove tails with a more fleshed out TOE.

now every 'supply depot' from the factories to the front is open to attack. each one can re-queue tickets if hit hard enough. essentially, the entirety of the map gains a defend and destroy component for the airwar.

down the road you can add more supply tickets. how about fuel tickets? we have fuel store objects already in game. if i destroy all those fuel dumps around an AO shouldn't that translate to less fuel in game? can't be too much, you can't create a situation where players - who maybe just logged in so it's real ****ty to penalize them for player activity that occurred before they even logged in - so you need this 'penalty' to be mostly cosmetic. maybe 3/4 tank of gas or half tank or something idk but you just can't have a realistic total shortage like say the conditions the desert rats went through etc etc.

games need to be fun, total removal of your opponents ability to put up a fair fight drives away opponents. if you have no opponents ..

anyway, just my thoughts on the subject ;-).

*edit2* another thing I forgot, there is an economy component that ... i'm not ready to share publicly mostly because it's a grossly incomplete concept. however it is my contention that some sort of "victory points" economy be created.

in the above example, the fuel thing is a mostly cosmetic 'negative'. in and of itself the effort required to limit your opponent in no real way isn't going to be a past time taken up by many people. this is where the economy and reward system come into play. attacking those targets needs to push the ball uphill for your side. individual action contributing in real time to total victory points. meaning, attacking all those fuel dumps - the main reason you're doing that is for the "victory points" that your side needs to win. the other reason, it also adds cool yet benign negative.

you could add something else here too, perhaps the speed the tickets travel from the factories to the front is altered by how many fuel dumps along the routes have been destroyed.

Edited by madrebel

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this post

http://discussions.battlegroundeurope.com/showpost.php?p=6930945&postcount=29

furthers the concept of economy. basically bombs on target translate directly to victory points for your side on a global scale.

lets get real simple.

you put one bomb on target. that bomb is worth 10 VPs. the cost for a new 'tank' is 100VPs. this tank is in addition to the existing number of tanks, but is a ONE TIME ticket. you can choose to 'buy' this tank for your personal garage by spending victory points.

no negative impact to your opponent.

further, take the economy down to the player level. me and my boys just ran a factory RDP mission because deep penetration missions (name of my sex tape) award the most VPs. we successfully each put 8 in the box and as a result we now have a player allocatable pool of VPs. now, we use those VPs to buy and reserve planes for our squads 'hangar' these are one time persistent tickets.

meaning, my squad and I can pool tickets in our hangar to use at our discretion. NOONE ELSE can access these vehicles unless we invite them too (tie this to squad missions somehow and allow sponsoring so new players can use gifted top end gear). when these vehicles die, they're gone and me and my squad have to pull from the global list.

this is theory only the mechanics and thresholds need to be defined but i really like the theory and think it could work. i think it also brings something to the game that the old team always talked about, squad pooled and reserved gear. further, encourages squad play, encourages squads to recruit. allows squads to pool for attacks, defense, etc. hc cant stop it, hc has NO control over it whatso ever ...

except at the global level. this is where HC can spend the global VPs. global VPs can be spent to increase the number of a specific types of gear, or a specific unit in a persitent way ... as long as the VP budget is there.

meaning, if you bomb the **** out of the enemy factories and get X VP and in turn use said VP to increase the tiger count by 2, then you need to spend those global VPs every cycle to maintain the additional two. if you get your ass kicked and or otherwise can't maintain the budget, then you fall back to the default list.

... like i said still mostly theory and it's really rough around the edges.

*edit*

now that you've got an economy in game you can open up micropayments. micropayments aren't for us, micropayments are for CRS. micropayments, for whatever reason, are loved by players. now now, we all say we hate them but the numbers don't lie. people use the **** out of micro payments. allowing you to literally 'buy' a one time tiger for X real world dollars is a ****ing ok with me as long as limits are in place. you would need some sort of area intelligence that prevents say a squad of 50 people from opening their wallets and having 50 tigers appear from nowhere. so you tie these micro payments into the RDP ticket system so these tickets have to queue and slowly arrive at the front (your garage or squad garage). once you've got control of them in the queue you can doll them out in a balanced manner. further, the above has to be prevented at all costs. you can't have tigers just pooping out from everywhere so maybe buying gear like this can't work, idk. i just know CRS should have micro payments as money in the bank = good for us all.

Edited by madrebel

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There are 2 overtly large issues with this idea.

The first is, cutting RDP from 15 hours to 8 would double the supply on the map.  There is already too much supply on the map.

This would really exasperate the issue.  Yes, the extended factory repair will mitigate it some, but no way near enough.

You'd have to cut every flags supply, maybe not in half, but by 40% maybe?

 

The second huge thorn in all this (and btw, I love the idea of factory bombing/shelling) is the current RDP system is grossly unfair to axis.

It is twice as easy to destroy axis factories.  Allowing DDs to sneak into England mitigated this some; but still in no way made of up for the 2x amount of work required for equal damage.

And, this has since been removed with DD EWS range extended, meaning axis now has no way to gain some advantage to make up the 2-1 disadvantage they face.

 

While I love RDP concept and the idea of bombing behind lines and shelling (I use to shell England factories a couple times a week) unless they can even the damage per work effort for the sides, ultimately this ends in axis side being hurt severely more.

 

Maybe they could add 9 more german production facilities?  Or, maybe have axis bombs/shells double their current damage when they hit allied production facilities?

Edited by delems

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7 hours ago, delems said:

There are 2 overtly large issues with this idea.

The first is, cutting RDP from 15 hours to 8 would double the supply on the map.  There is already too much supply on the map.

This would really exasperate the issue.  Yes, the extended factory repair will mitigate it some, but no way near enough.

You'd have to cut every flags supply, maybe not in half, but by 40% maybe?

 

The second huge thorn in all this (and btw, I love the idea of factory bombing/shelling) is the current RDP system is grossly unfair to axis.

It is twice as easy to destroy axis factories.  Allowing DDs to sneak into England mitigated this some; but still in no way made of up for the 2x amount of work required for equal damage.

And, this has since been removed with DD EWS range extended, meaning axis now has no way to gain some advantage to make up the 2-1 disadvantage they face.

 

While I love RDP concept and the idea of bombing behind lines and shelling (I use to shell England factories a couple times a week) unless they can even the damage per work effort for the sides, ultimately this end in axis side being hurt severely more.

 

Maybe they could add 9 more german production facilities?  Or, maybe have axis bombs/shells double their current damage when they hit allied production facilities?

That's correct, supply would probably need to be adjusted after the timers were reduced. I did say that recently in another thread but I didn't here when I posted this almost a year ago.  I think 1/3 less would be a good place to start.  

 

There's generally only three types of supply that anyone cares about anyway: automatics, premium tanks, and premium fighters.

 

I dont think they can do anything in regards to factories (since that counts as terrain). 

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