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james10

Revise the current “Mid Air Collision” methodology.

30 posts in this topic

Maybe it might just be time to revisit the idea and see if it is now possible.

Cheers

James10

Feel free to suggest a system and we'll do our best to explain why it will result in undesirable behavior.

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...what was difficult if not impossible, decades ago may now be possible with the cumulative advances that HAVE occurred in the intervening decades.

Plot out your proposal on a timeline...two opposing player-clients at some distance from each other, with the server at some distance from either. Each player-client sees the other at a position communicated to them by the server, taking certain actions such as flying in a particular direction at a particular speed, and turning in a particular way.

Meanwhile, each player-client is communicating to the server where they are, and what they're doing.

Because one player is at a distance from the server and a further distance from the other player, the second player cannot see the first player's position and actions until after a short time delay. That's fundamental to the physics involved. And the same is true in the other direction. So, each player sees the game in their own time-reality. They see their own position and actions essentially instantaneously, and they see other players' positions and actions as they were a short time earlier. That's true in both directions.

And the server sees all players' positions and actions a short time after each of those players does.

In an air game, the "short time" involved can be a hundred meters or more of movement...and because any player might have provided a control input in that time, there's no absolute way of knowing the geometric relationship between what each player knows and sees of their own position and actions, and what the server "sees" and knows.

So the server cannot mediate collisions without basing its determinations on positions and actions that are time-obsolete as far as all the players are concerned.

An air online game that tried to have a server manage positions and actions would be thoroughly unplayable because of the crazy time delay between when you provided a control input to your plane, and when the plane responded.

Imagine trying to fly in a furball-gunfight with a quarter to half second of delay between your inputs and the game responding. No one would put up with that for more than a few seconds of laughter at how dumb it was.

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But here's how it *can* work in a 2015/2016 game:

It was working pretty much the same in Parsoft's "Fighter Squadron: SDOE" in 1998... offline of course. (or maybe online with a max of a handful players on a tiny map)

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So the server cannot mediate collisions without basing its determinations on positions and actions that are time-obsolete as far as all the players are concerned.

An air online game that tried to have a server manage positions and actions would be thoroughly unplayable because of the crazy time delay between when you provided a control input to your plane, and when the plane responded.

Imagine trying to fly in a furball-gunfight with a quarter to half second of delay between your inputs and the game responding. No one would put up with that for more than a few seconds of laughter at how dumb it was.

All that and the other points about ping, lag, distance from server are all well and good.

However: It still doesn't change the fact that you can collide in this game and one plane will blow up while the other will still show a "reaction" to the collision (like starting to wobble/shake/enter a spin) but will suffer no other consequences.

I've seen this behavior from both sides: I've collided and blew up, I've collided and had nothing much happen to me but still "felt" the collision. So it's not like this is a case of one client detecting a collision and blowing "its" plane up while the other doesn't detect the collision and lets "its" plane fly on. It's a collision for both, but one guy gets to fly away while the other is turned into a cloud of dust.

That's what bothers me (sorta). If two planes collide at high enough speeds for one to blow up, the other plane that doesn't blow up should at least take some sort of other significant damage. Making another plane blow up via colliding with him without taking critical damage yourself *might* be possible under certain circumstances, but I'd guess that it would be a 1 in a million shot to pull something like this off.

S.

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