PITTPETE

British Shermans

26 posts in this topic

Pretty sure the old Dev group said they wanted to 'keep the flavor' and keep the armies 'unique', while the BEF suffer with awful tanks. 

 

Hopefuly the new Dev team will see through that madness and add sherm76s to the BEF, at least until they can get new BEF tanks modeled that have something bigger than a 6lber. 

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There are some great and unique british tanks not present yet like the valentine and cromwell, this would fill their needs for a good medium tank.

Edited by pbveteran

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Weapons must be developed in triad or quad sets. There's been a plan for many years to develop a set of T4 tanks: German Panther, American M36B1, British Sherman Firefly. 

I assume all that it's waiting for is either addition to the Rat team of someone that can run Multigen effectively, or a complete rebuild of the game around a new game engine to simplify model development.

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Theres no reason to have to wait to develop equipment tiers.

The French and the Americans both have Shermans and Stuarts. 

Slap on a Brit flag

This should've been done years ago.

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6 hours ago, jwilly said:

Weapons must be developed in triad or quad sets. There's been a plan for many years to develop a set of T4 tanks: German Panther, American M36B1, British Sherman Firefly. 

I assume all that it's waiting for is either addition to the Rat team of someone that can run Multigen effectively, or a complete rebuild of the game around a new game engine to simplify model development.

I remember the latest planed vehicles where the PZ IIIL, British M10 Achilles and can't remember the US tank, thought I disagree with the previous CRS team vehicle priorities, I would prefer the following

Panther D / Archer  / M4A3E2 Jumbo  - The jumbo with the smaller size gun can still deflect tiger shots down to 100m Tiger Equivalent for the US, Archer should be able to defeat panther with first shots, Panther Add a mostly non paper armor tank from the front, it could be defeat on the side by all other Allied AFVs.

PZ IIIM / Valentine Mk.XI / M3 Lee - Axis Medium tank for Tier 2 able to flank and kill enemy tanks better protection than the IVG but worst gun, Valentine Tier 2 a well rounded Medium Tank to face IVG and Stug III, M3 Lee Tier 0 or 1 for US or French.

Puma / Mark VIII A27M Cromwell I / M8 Greyhound - Puma balance Axis lack of armored car, Cromwell another medium but much faster tank for tier 2 or Tier 3 UK with slighty less armor than Valentine, M8 for US to have Armored Car.

Wirbelwind / M16 / Crusader AA Mk.II - SPAAs for everyone tier 1 or Tier 2

Panzer IV/70 (V) / Achilles / M36 - Heavier Hitting Tank Destroyers for Tier 3 

Kingtiger / Sherman Firefly / M26 Persing - Heavy Tanks for Tier 3

 

Edited by pbveteran

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40 minutes ago, Pittpete said:

Theres no reason to have to wait to develop equipment tiers.

The game design consists of a bunch of lethality-balances...including German tanks vs. British tanks and German tanks vs. all Allied tanks. Any significant change to lethality of one of these would affect the overall game balance.

It's understood of course that most players are mostly concerned with improving the lethality of their preferred side, or sometimes nerfing the lethality of the opposing side. That however isn't a viable approach for CRS, which must maintain the critical game balance. So the question has to be, would the proposed change affect side lethality?

The default answer always is yes. Players very, very rarely suggest a change that they don't think will improve their own lethality vis-a-vis the other side.

It's possible to develop game changes other than in sets. The substantial advantage of a set approach is that it explicitly addresses the fundamental lethality-balance requirement.

Edited by jwilly

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33 minutes ago, Pittpete said:

Adding Brit Shermans will not unbalance the game.

I play both sides so i don't lobby for one side.

 

They are marginally OK in tier2. Tier3 when the tiger comes out they NEED the s76.

 

No question. 

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If the game is balanced now...AFAIK, CRS thinks it is; lethality has always been measured by campaign outcomes and side attractiveness as shown by overall gameplay statistics--then a change that one side "needs" because it doesn't have enough lethality in a particular tier, will increase that side's lethality. 

That's the point.

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Its impossible to measure anything these days with this game.

Adding a few Brit Shermans wouldnt increase any sides lethality or lack of.

Listening to all that DOC mumbo jumbo all these years will do that to some people.

I think the new team has done a great job experimenting with adding and subtracting equipment by tiers.

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14 minutes ago, Pittpete said:

Its impossible to measure anything these days with this game.

Adding a few Brit Shermans wouldnt increase any sides lethality or lack of.

Listening to all that DOC mumbo jumbo all these years will do that to some people.

I think the new team has done a great job experimenting with adding and subtracting equipment by tiers.

 

Preach it. 

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I don't have my books here, but wasn't the Firefly Sherman the Sherman with the best armament that could give the Tiger and and Panther a match?

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I don't have my books here, but wasn't the Firefly Sherman the Sherman with the best armament that could give the Tiger and and Panther a match?

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I don't have my books here, but wasn't the Firefly Sherman the Sherman with the best armament that could give the Tiger and and Panther a match?

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20 hours ago, pbveteran said:

I remember the latest planed vehicles where the PZ IIIL, British M10 Achilles and can't remember the US tank, thought I disagree with the previous CRS team vehicle priorities, I would prefer the following

Panther D / Archer  / M4A3E2 Jumbo  - The jumbo with the smaller size gun can still deflect tiger shots down to 100m Tiger Equivalent for the US, Archer should be able to defeat panther with first shots, Panther Add a mostly non paper armor tank from the front, it could be defeat on the side by all other Allied AFVs.

PZ IIIM / Valentine Mk.XI / M3 Lee - Axis Medium tank for Tier 2 able to flank and kill enemy tanks better protection than the IVG but worst gun, Valentine Tier 2 a well rounded Medium Tank to face IVG and Stug III, M3 Lee Tier 0 or 1 for US or French.

Puma / Mark VIII A27M Cromwell I / M8 Greyhound - Puma balance Axis lack of armored car, Cromwell another medium but much faster tank for tier 2 or Tier 3 UK with slighty less armor than Valentine, M8 for US to have Armored Car.

Wirbelwind / M16 / Crusader AA Mk.II - SPAAs for everyone tier 1 or Tier 2

Panzer IV/70 (V) / Achilles / M36 - Heavier Hitting Tank Destroyers for Tier 3 

Kingtiger / Sherman Firefly / M26 Persing - Heavy Tanks for Tier 3

 

I have to say that there is no place for the Jumbo yet, its a T5 candidate and in the Tier it would come it would need to be the Jumbo 76 - French. Pershing US.

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6 hours ago, Sparre said:

I don't have my books here, but wasn't the Firefly Sherman the Sherman with the best armament that could give the Tiger and and Panther a match?

The Comet is the only other one, its gun was less lethal then the 17pdr using the same ammo, however when it entered it used APCBC and APCBC FH (face hardened cap) which would be the two choices avail outside of APDS rounds which the game cannot handle properly. You could punch trough the Tigers frontal armor at 1750m  with the APCBC ammo. The 17pdr ammo used by the ATG is an anemic version of the AP ammo. It should kill the tiger at ranges beyond 1500m frontally but your lucky to kill one at 1500m frontally.  So the Comets gun would perform similar to the current 17pdr ATG.

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On 11/13/2016 at 8:11 AM, pbveteran said:

There are some great and unique british tanks not present yet like the valentine and cromwell, this would fill their needs for a good medium tank.

Absolutely. The Cromwell and Valentine both need to be added. Also, the Achilles and Archer tank destoyers, both of which touted the 17-pounder gun. 

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On Monday, November 14, 2016 at 5:39 PM, stankyus said:

The Comet is the only other one, its gun was less lethal then the 17pdr using the same ammo, however when it entered it used APCBC and APCBC FH (face hardened cap) which would be the two choices avail outside of APDS rounds which the game cannot handle properly. You could punch trough the Tigers frontal armor at 1750m  with the APCBC ammo. The 17pdr ammo used by the ATG is an anemic version of the AP ammo. It should kill the tiger at ranges beyond 1500m frontally but your lucky to kill one at 1500m frontally.  So the Comets gun would perform similar to the current 17pdr ATG.

Specialised rounds meant in 1944 that any tank was dead meat.

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I suggested the British getting the Sherman a year ago and received no response.  It makes the most sense, will cost nothing (just keep the current paint scheme), and adds another piece of equipment for players to choose from.  Its a really a no brainer.  I wouldn't mind even trying to start up a historical based British all armored squad. 

Perhaps a rat could comment this time on what it would require on their end to add it to the British pool.  I know I would appreciate a response.

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7 hours ago, Baer said:

I suggested the British getting the Sherman a year ago and received no response.  It makes the most sense, will cost nothing (just keep the current paint scheme), and adds another piece of equipment for players to choose from.  Its a really a no brainer.  I wouldn't mind even trying to start up a historical based British all armored squad. 

Perhaps a rat could comment this time on what it would require on their end to add it to the British pool.  I know I would appreciate a response.

I think because the whole thing is a moot point with the next patch. It sounds like the rats are going to give every Allied town a percentage of British and French equipment to avoid the old two army problem. So all town supply should have a mix anyway in 1.36. 

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13 hours ago, saronin said:

It sounds like the rats are going to give every Allied town a percentage of British and French equipment to avoid the old two army problem. So all town supply should have a mix anyway in 1.36. 

As the game realism concept goes out the window...

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9 hours ago, jwilly said:

As the game realism concept goes out the window...

Yup that part sucks.  Realism is just gone. My uncle was in Patton's 3rd Army.  He used to tell me about how the 101st Airborne Division was trapped at Bastogne. Luckily, although the 101st was completely surrounded, had no armor, and was running short on everything they recapped the Cobreville link CP.  The 3rd Army had this HC named Scottie who beamed a whole brigade's worth of armor in the center of Bastogne and saved both 101st and the town since they could fight their way from the center out with their fresh supply of tanks .  Could you imagine how tough it would have been if Patton's tanks would have had to rescue that town by driving them from Cobreville and fight their way through that camp from the outside in?  Why do the rats hate the historical WWII transporters?  I mean, come on rats....

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