N7Shadow

Mechanic to incentivize inf+tank cooperation

24 posts in this topic

Currently in game, there is a mechanic to award extra points for killing an enemy in a CP or AB Bunker, or killing somebody from the CP, so it shouldn't be too hard to take that, add a circle around a tank that has somewhere between a 150m and 250m radius. If you are inf, and in that circle, kills you are awarded added points, and if you kill an EI in that circle, you are awarded additional points. The size of the circle does not concern me as much as I am concerned with their being a circle. I do think it needs to be big enough to make it a challenge for EI to know where protectors may be, but also small enough that inf will actually support the tanks.

Currently, infantry will sit for an hour in a CP to get those points...in a town where not a lot of action is happening. But they won't stay near a tank in a town with a lot of action. The reason is obvious...the points.

This mechanic could also be used for the 88, 17pdr, etc, since they do attract a lot of attention as soon as they fire.

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so it shouldn't be too hard to take that, add a circle around a tank that has somewhere between a 150m and 250m radius.

not a rat - but - i think you're way off here. the 'world' objects, terrain, etc all at some point translate back to a grid of coordinates. this grid is fixed, non moving, etc.

taking logic that currently interacts only with the terrain and then applying that logic to vehicle objects ... the theory is easy but everything i've seen from a rat recently that has anything to do with terrain and manipulating that code base has led me to believe that right now it's just not something that is easily done.

love the idea though.

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Great idea.

Anything that incentivizes team gameplay would be an excellent addition to the game.

Infantry get a lot of points for killing an enemy tank. Infantry should even more points for protecting a friendly tank, by killing an enemy infantryman in position to conduct an attack on that friendly tank. The former case is good gameplay, but it often doesn't involve any teamwork. An action that's otherwise game-valued and involves teamwork should be especially valuable.

Edited by jwilly

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to add another thought, any mechanic like this i'd like to see 'pulse' every X seconds/minutes/whatever and constantly reward points. otherwise people will do the absolute minimal amount of effort and as soon as they do that, the tank will be on its own again.

make it so doing these things will always and routinely give points and people will always and routinely do it.

still - need to make those 'points' actually mean something though.

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I guess, there can help, if to make real difference between the infantry and mechanized infantry.

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to add another thought, any mechanic like this i'd like to see 'pulse' every X seconds/minutes/whatever and constantly reward points. otherwise people will do the absolute minimal amount of effort and as soon as they do that, the tank will be on its own again.

make it so doing these things will always and routinely give points and people will always and routinely do it.

still - need to make those 'points' actually mean something though.

No points for just standing there purporting to be a tank guard. You should get points for an enemy infantry kill, and nothing else...and only if your tank remains alive. The point is, you're there to keep it alive. If you succeed, you should be rewarded.

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Points better be worth it, ff you stick around for an hour watching paint dry just go get 2 kills.

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Currently, infantry will sit for an hour in a CP to get those points...in a town where not a lot of action is happening. But they won't stay near a tank in a town with a lot of action. The reason is obvious...the points.

I stay the fark away from tanks because they attract too much attention and gunfire. Being near a tank is a great way to make yourself into another tanker's "free bonus kill." At least with sappers being reduced to a pistol you've got a slim chance on not being their free kill, too.

I know IRL it was probably just the opposite, but with the way game mechanics work around here trying to work with tanks as infantry is pretty suicidal. The only way I've found it even remotely effective is if you've got a long range weapon and you stay at least 100m behind them. At least the you might see tracers from the invisible, unmarked ET that is somehow firing through twelve hedgerows with no loss in accuracy to one-shot the poor bastard in front of you in time to behind a berm.

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to add another thought, any mechanic like this i'd like to see 'pulse' every X seconds/minutes/whatever and constantly reward points. otherwise people will do the absolute minimal amount of effort and as soon as they do that, the tank will be on its own again.

make it so doing these things will always and routinely give points and people will always and routinely do it.

still - need to make those 'points' actually mean something though.

That's an excellent idea. Why not just as you say, every minute it pulses. It ask one simple question. How close are you to a tank. Within 50 meters/ You get X points. 100 meters? you get Y points. 150 meters? You get Z points. So maybe at the end of a 10 minute mission, if you guarded tanks, you would get about 10 points, and if you get a kill during that time, you get more points, just like in CPs. And really, they should make the value higher than in Cps to get people to want to do it. Plus, they can add the stat to the leader board. Call it force defense tom, and the kills during it, force defense kills. This would also help with the new guys saying, "Where's the enemy? You tell them, look for tanks. Where you find tanks, you will find infantry.

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I have one more idea that may be even better. Put a mechanic in where I can spawn an infantryman, then choose force defense. I can choose one or more tanks to defend in my area. If the tank lives, I get points. And by live, I mean it is not killed by infantry. If it gets sapped or shrecked, you lose a small amount of points. This would be there just to keep you from selecting every tank you see and hoping for the best. No, you only select those that you can actually defend or you lose some points. But, if he never gets killed by infantry, you get a nice little bonus of points. Same could be done for an ATG or AA gun. The game requires these units to rely on infantry for protection but in no way incentivizes infantry to do so. This equals massive frustration. For instance, I have rolled an 88 just out of the AB when a town is about to be attacked. I look at the map, and see a lot of blue tags around me. Doesn't matter An Allied soldier runs up to me. Stands there. Switches to pistol, takes aim, and shoots my gunner in the head. It is enough to make you log off for the night. Heck, it took longer to push that 88 out of the Ab than it would have taken to drive an Opel to a spot near the FB and set up a FRU.

Having squad based stats would also help. Show which squads protect their equipment.

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Not just squad scores for protecting other squaddies' equipment. Bonus points for protecting your squad's equipment. Squad tactics should be rewarded.

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Hmmm... good idea but come on... tanks die.

When tanks die, it's usually from other tanks, and there is no way infantry surrounding a tank can protect it from being fired on by another tank.

 

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Also think this could be a good idea. We need more objectives in the fields around towns.

 

Maybe I missed it, but if this idea is implemented, I think this circle which gives extra points only should be activated if both tank and infantry is within "mission target range" (3km). In most cases this is an active AO.

Which made me think of MSP:s and how they in turn could be part of the solution to implement this (MSP:s can only be placed within 3km of mission target):

  • A mission from a armoured flag, should automatically activate a 200m circle from a MSP put on that mission
    • Inf on mission get extra points for killing enemy infantry within those 200m from MSP
    • Tanks also get extra points for killing enemy infantry within 200m of MSP (becuase enemy inf/tanks could kill MSP)
  • Effects:
    • Inf have a reason for staying and "holding" the area where mission leader choses to put a MSP
    • Tanks have a reason for rolling in and supporting the MSP
    • With a MSP on the minimum distance to town (400m) then the "depot snipers" will surely use the opportunity to become "MSP snipers" :) But in a way I feel this could be ok, because often it is here the battle is won anyway. If you can get a clean entry from MSP to town, you will win that town. Note that these "MSP snipers" will have a possibility to kill both enemy infantry coming from town AND enemy trying to nade the MSP (200m each direction).
    • This setup would also make ATG:s and AA-guns want to be near the MSP:s, to also (hopefully) be protected by inf as well.

Or just create a new "infantry placed object" called "Zone of Control", which only the OIC for that flag can place. And where distance to this "flag" (I picture it as a flag) give more points the closer to flag you as inf make a infantry kill. (where of course then the enemy gets the option to destroy that flag, hehe)

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Genuine question: Do most players even care about points? I always players flocking toward capturable buildings as more of a "Here's an obvious objective" thing.

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4 hours ago, VICTARUS said:

Genuine question: Do most players even care about points? I always players flocking toward capturable buildings as more of a "Here's an obvious objective" thing.

I care less now that I've basically gotten everything you can get with points.  There needs to be more perks, honestly.

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On 2016-10-28 at 1:42 AM, VICTARUS said:

Genuine question: Do most players even care about points? I always players flocking toward capturable buildings as more of a "Here's an obvious objective" thing.

Your right that points are not important for most TODAY. Mostly because the majority of players have played for years, and are maxed out in rank.

New players want that rank2 as soon as possible to get the smg (if you ask me it is to easy to get those first 100), then if they start paying for the game, at least in my squad we encourage ALL to get to rank 3 as soon as possible to be able to get a-hold of HE charges (for fb busts and bridges). So there is "some" interest in points during the first 2-3 weeks of a new player. And because of that I have actually managed to get some newbie lemmings to sit and guard cps, etc. For a new player it is VERY thankful to sit in a cp, being able to let all the action sink in, asking questions on chat... before rushing in on an attack.

That aside: This thread is about finding ways to make cooperation be worth something.

So something I did not mention: Yes if making "circles" (and stuff that could give you extra points) then of course we need to look into how to also make points translatable to perks, or stuff that would make it worthwhile.

For example: What if each game session started to count your points. A sortie exit could have a mission AAR saying "+14, you now have 74 session points". And those session points could give a "session rank". Meaning say:  "if more than 100 session points, you have 5 seconds less spawn delay". Or "get 500 session points and get 10% faster reload". More ideas? Just play WoT for a while, and you will get the picture. :P

I think we all have a little "stat junkie" within. For example just having a new column in stats saying "average points per sortie" could do wonders.

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On 2016-10-28 at 1:42 AM, VICTARUS said:

Genuine question: Do most players even care about points? I always players flocking toward capturable buildings as more of a "Here's an obvious objective" thing.

Your right that points are not important for most TODAY. Mostly because the majority of players have played for years, and are maxed out in rank.

New players want that rank2 as soon as possible to get the smg (if you ask me it is to easy to get those first 100), then if they start paying for the game, at least in my squad we encourage ALL to get to rank 3 as soon as possible to be able to get a-hold of HE charges (for fb busts and bridges). So there is "some" interest in points during the first 2-3 weeks of a new player. And because of that I have actually managed to get some newbie lemmings to sit and guard cps, etc. For a new player it is VERY thankful to sit in a cp, being able to let all the action sink in, asking questions on chat... before rushing in on an attack.

That aside: This thread is about finding ways to make cooperation be worth something.

So something I did not mention: Yes if making "circles" (and stuff that could give you extra points) then of course we need to look into how to also make points translatable to perks, or stuff that would make it worthwhile.

For example: What if each game session started to count your points. A sortie exit could have a mission AAR saying "+14, you now have 74 session points". And those session points could give a "session rank". Meaning say:  "if more than 100 session points, you have 5 seconds less spawn delay". Or "get 500 session points and get 10% faster reload". More ideas? Just play WoT for a while, and you will get the picture. :P

I think we all have a little "stat junkie" within. For example just having a new column in stats saying "average points per sortie" could do wonders.

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Great question VICTARUS.  I think that was answered above in that some do care and others will not.  But, there are more ways to reward than just pure points for advancement.  People like to see records of what they did.  They like to see their name on the leaderboards.  They like to see medals, etc...  This is why I also suggest that this be a tracked stat.  Thus there can be a leaderboard stat that is called, Combined Arms.  In short, this is a leaderboard for infantry that kill enemy in a zone of control around tanks and friendly guns, and kill those outside of those zones, while they themselves are inside the zone.  So the mechanic is exactly like the mechanic in CPs, except that CSR has an addition to it that tracks this.  There could also be one for armor that risk their butt to kill EI in the vicinity of a CP.  Blowing up CPs, and buildings that are deemed strategic, and getting a kill in the process would be the key for the tank getting credit.

Then make medals.  Get the community to help make cool, very detailed looking medals for these things.  So for instance, if I were in the top 100 tanks for Combined Arms, and I did this for 5 campaigns, then my Medal would have a Roman Numeral 5 on the Ribbon portion.  This could be something that is very attractive to new people coming in from Steam when that happens.  Make Ribbons and medals for everything, but reserve the medals for the big stuff, and especially things you want to encourage people to do.  Use Ribbons for the other stuff.  People...some people, like to show this stuff off when showing the game to a friend.

 

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I think this quite easy to implement the game already tracks constantly players on your client, if there is a tank in your game world it's very easy to raycast from him to you and get the measured distance.

This would be great for new players to rank faster while improving teamplay.. I think the future should be focus on being able to do more things with points maybe make some elite units only available to be spawn by spending points like to use a StG 44 or Mkb (H) 42 

Edited by pbveteran

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On 10/27/2016 at 4:42 PM, VICTARUS said:

Genuine question: Do most players even care about points? I always players flocking toward capturable buildings as more of a "Here's an obvious objective" thing.

add some sort of economy, whatever that may be, and players will care about points.

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On 11/7/2016 at 11:19 AM, dandysprat said:

I thought the mechanic/incentive for infantry-tank cooperation was, "If you do not do it, you are all dead."

 

Even after 15 years, that lesson seems not to have sunk in. 

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