gousgounis

New fru

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I like it also! It's going to be pretty bad ass with the foxholes, gun emplacements, supply crates, and sandbags.

Xoom - I assume we'll be able to place those other PPO objects VERY close to the FMS?

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I tried to post a comment to the Friday Update post, but apparently the word verification deal is broken.

Will the new fru take damage from all sides? ie. if you pour HE into the berm side. Can we get more specifics on how much more damage will be required to take one out? What's the minimum? 1 inf with 4 nades? 1 LMG? 1 engineer with 4 HE satchels? Armor? Will it take damage from strafing or bombs?

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Anything better than a pile of boxes will dramatically improve gameplay over what exists now. The converted ATG bunker looks pretty good too. There's something important though:

"Can withstand a significant amount of damage, but can go down."

If the FMS is invulnerable on the outside, but has a hitbox on the inside then it could be destroyed only by flanking for by being overrun with infantry.

If the entire structure is susceptible to damage then it will be possible to destroy it from long-range bombardment. Even if it is pretty strong people will still prefer to spend a minute or two pounding it from a distance over getting in close. Also if it is strong it might be easy for tanks to kill it and difficult for other non-engineer infantry. One good thing though is that it would provide more ingame purpose for the tanks with good HE ammo. HE has limited use even with the HE audit. If they allow bombs to harm it them bomb load and air support will become much more relevant.

So I think that the developers are going to have to figure out if they want these to be able to be destroyable by an infantryman with a grenade, or require a lot of energy. If they go high-energy they might have to increase the number of engineers.

Also since these FMS can spawn light ATGs it will make light ATG performance more important.

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Anything better than a pile of boxes will dramatically improve gameplay over what exists now. The converted ATG bunker looks pretty good too. There's something important though:

"Can withstand a significant amount of damage, but can go down."

If the FMS is invulnerable on the outside, but has a hitbox on the inside then it could be destroyed only by flanking for by being overrun with infantry.

If the entire structure is susceptible to damage then it will be possible to destroy it from long-range bombardment. Even if it is pretty strong people will still prefer to spend a minute or two pounding it from a distance over getting in close. Also if it is strong it might be easy for tanks to kill it and difficult for other non-engineer infantry. One good thing though is that it would provide more ingame purpose for the tanks with good HE ammo. HE has limited use even with the HE audit. If they allow bombs to harm it them bomb load and air support will become much more relevant.

So I think that the developers are going to have to figure out if they want these to be able to be destroyable by an infantryman with a grenade, or require a lot of energy. If they go high-energy they might have to increase the number of engineers.

This FRU has the potential to really take tactical game play up a few gears but I would agree with this post - the unit should not be vulnerable frontally. If it is vulnerable to frontal attack, all you'll see is armour sat at maximum distance pounding the unit until it dies.

The game play I would suggest would most benefit the game and improve the way the game plays will be delivered only if the defender has to flank the FRU to kill it

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I'm curious to see how they'll implement the FRU - or more precisely its placement.

Will it be available to attackers only? Or to both attackers and defenders? Will all trucks be able to place it? Or just the heavy towers? Will there be a limited number of "hard" FRUs per brigade/AO? Or a limited number of how many can be up at the same time for the same AO? And how long will the build-time be? Will there be a cooldown once it does get destroyed?

If this thing is made too powerful, too "common" and too hard to kill, it's going to be a disaster for defenders.

Perhaps make it "harder" against stuff like MG-fire, grenades or HE-shells, but make it more vulnerable against HE-satchels and/or bombs? Kinda like an "old-school mini-FB"

Vulnerability against satchels would mean that a couple of smart sappers/engies could still take the FRU down pretty easily (if they manage to get close enough).

S.

Edited by sascha

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I'm curious to see how they'll implement the FRU - or more precisely its placement.

Will it be available to attackers only? Or to both attackers and defenders? Will all trucks be able to place it? Or just the heavy towers? Will there be a limited number of "hard" FRUs per brigade/AO? Or a limited number of how many can be up at the same time for the same AO? And how long will the build-time be? Will there be a cooldown once it does get destroyed?

If this thing is made too powerful, too "common" and too hard to kill, it's going to be a disaster for defenders.

Perhaps make it "harder" against stuff like MG-fire, grenades or HE-shells, but make it more vulnerable against HE-satchels and/or bombs? Kinda like an "old-school mini-FB"

Vulnerability against satchels would mean that a couple of smart sappers/engies could still take the FRU down pretty easily (if they manage to get close enough).

S.

The cooldown is interesting. Each truck should be able to place only one.

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If there's any cooldown then players will just hop missions once the spawn gets hit. The typical gameplay will be the same disorganized cluster that it was for years with new players being left directionless on dead missions while the leaders create a new one to make a truck.

There shouldn't need to be a cooldown because a truck is going to be far more vulnerable than the FMS that it places. If somehow the FMS gets killed but the truck is alive well then you don't even have a small degree of control over the area and that's a good thing. With strong spawns the game should shift to having control of an area and destroying the units instead of destroying the spawn and ignoring the units.

If this thing is made too powerful, too "common" and too hard to kill, it's going to be a disaster for defenders.

Even if the defender is worse off in some situations because of these hardened spawns, being able to quickly drive a truck out and deploy 2pdr/Pak 36 ATGs 1km on the flanks of a town will be wondrous so I think that these FMS could easily be a buff to the defense as well as attack.

Reading around here I get the vibe that everyone wants the primary counter to tanks to be ATGs, not infantry but that's not going to happen with the current setup. The FMS as stated will be a tremendous buff to light ATGs, CRS might even have to tweak numbers because the light guns will go from sitting unused in the later tiers to primary use.

Edited by david01

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If there's any cooldown then players will just hop missions once the spawn gets hit.

Easy fix:

Make reinforced FRUs a different object than "normal" FRUs. Limit their availability per AO/DO (say you can only have one or two of them up at an AO/DO at any given time). If one gets taken down, a cooldown for *all* players on that AO/DO would start, forcing everyone to wait before they can replace the dead FRU.

Not saying that this is what's needed - heck, the thing isn't even in-game yet. Just throwing some general ideas around.

S.

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Another thought, with the introduction of fortified MSP, we should really look at reducing the warp range to Depots. I think it's 400m right now. It should probably be closer to 250m/300m.

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Another thought, with the introduction of fortified MSP, we should really look at reducing the warp range to Depots. I think it's 400m right now. It should probably be closer to 250m/300m.

The 'warp' is a side effect of the RTB mechanic. Shrinking the RTB range would mean everything has to despawn closer to town/facility (not necessarily a bad thing)

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Mmmm camp more squishes

Im gonna camp the $@ outta that thing ;)

Sounds like there needs to be a rear side berm with chicanes so the spawners can stand a chance.

Will be a lot of fun setting gun emplacements to distract from the new fru.

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yea I like the design

Im just messing around, hence the wink I placed at end of statement

Agreed, there should be a rear berm, and two levels areas on each end for at guns to roll out

Plus there should be some risque pictures of women on the walls so the guys staying in there to defend spawn can be entertained

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The 'warp' is a side effect of the RTB mechanic. Shrinking the RTB range would mean everything has to despawn closer to town/facility (not necessarily a bad thing)

Agreed, I don't think the RTB/warp range needs to be 400m or whatever is is now. 200m -300m would be fine.

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Easy fix:

Make reinforced FRUs a different object than "normal" FRUs. Limit their availability per AO/DO (say you can only have one or two of them up at an AO/DO at any given time). If one gets taken down, a cooldown for *all* players on that AO/DO would start, forcing everyone to wait before they can replace the dead FRU.

Not saying that this is what's needed - heck, the thing isn't even in-game yet. Just throwing some general ideas around.

S.

Thats worst idead ever best way to kill attacts and the game together.

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Warping won't be as important because these FMS are going to have better spawning options than spawnable depots. Think about it, they will have access to the entire brigade infantry pool as well as the light AT(AA too?) guns.

Warping is critical right now because the FRU is so weak and so discovery equals destruction. The decreased time to battle is a secondary benefit the main point is that if everyone warps then there isn't an ant trail telling the defenders where the FRU is.

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Most def needs a berm or log wall behind to stop a tank from setting up to the rear and killing everything that spawns.

If the warp distance was reduced, the FRU min distance should be reduced as well.

Right now there are SO many great places to set the FRU that are JUST barely inside the minimum distance range.

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Warping won't be as important because these FMS are going to have better spawning options than spawnable depots. Think about it, they will have access to the entire brigade infantry pool as well as the light AT(AA too?) guns.

Warping is critical right now because the FRU is so weak and so discovery equals destruction. The decreased time to battle is a secondary benefit the main point is that if everyone warps then there isn't an ant trail telling the defenders where the FRU is.

Warping needs to go the way of the dodo. It makes any chance that defenders have of establishing a ZOC laughable once enemies start spawning BEHIND their lines.

Yes, the MSP needs to be tougher, and it needs to be decently camouflaged, but if you want to take a town, you should have to fight your way in. Spawnables are bad enough, but warping is a nightmare that some of us could do without.

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Most def needs a berm or log wall behind to stop a tank from setting up to the rear and killing everything that spawns.

That's exactly what the Fortified FRU should be vulnerable to, in order to encourage armoured support to the rear, creating a genuine ZoC

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Most def needs a berm or log wall behind to stop a tank from setting up to the rear and killing everything that spawns.

If the warp distance was reduced, the FRU min distance should be reduced as well.

Right now there are SO many great places to set the FRU that are JUST barely inside the minimum distance range.

Yup, I suspect the RTB/warp range is the limiting factor for placing frus. So by reducing RTB to 300m for example, you're able to set frus closer.

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Warping needs to go the way of the dodo. It makes any chance that defenders have of establishing a ZOC laughable once enemies start spawning BEHIND their lines.

Yes, the MSP needs to be tougher, and it needs to be decently camouflaged, but if you want to take a town, you should have to fight your way in. Spawnables are bad enough, but warping is a nightmare that some of us could do without.

Warping is a minor issue I don't see why you're focusing on it. Also if the enemy has captured a depot they've already fought their way in, I don't know what better criteria you have to simulate control of territory. If you think you're in control and somehow the enemy has captured part of your town and has infantry spawns a few hundred meters from the town edge then you're behind their lines not the other way around.

That's exactly what the Fortified FRU should be vulnerable to, in order to encourage armoured support to the rear, creating a genuine ZoC

"Bring tanks, or get farmed by tanks" is the unofficial mantra of this game and look at where it has gotten it. The game already has a lot of "encouragement" to bring armor support but I don't see armor support, I see a comatose server.

If there's no rear protection I'll just engine-off and glide around in an armored car then camp everything that spawns. Even if there is going to be a tank diligently providing overwatch for the FMS(lol) I'll just grab a LMG and use a bush. You need to stop thinking about what players should do ideally and instead focus on how the game can be gamed.

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You need to stop thinking about what players should do ideally and instead focus on how the game can be gamed.

Like two missions, two trucks, and two FRUs placed back to back, to cover the open sides?

-Irish

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Like two missions, two trucks, and two FRUs placed back to back, to cover the open sides?

-Irish

Now that's thinking outside the box. :D

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Now that's thinking outside the box. :D

Or, an engineer with a couple gun emplacements.

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