captcrayon

How many players can this games server hold?

33 posts in this topic

I'm new here and I really love the game. The battles are huge and sometimes small and they are always memorable. I heard recently while going through the forums and news that this game is going to be releasing on steam to really help it out and make it go big which is great news.

Awhile ago a thought crossed my mind on how many players can this game hold since it will be released on steam soon. I asked a few people and some said millions while others said hundreds of thousands. I always got different answers but I thought I would ask here so the title says it all.

This question also counts that when the pop cap is at max there could be possible map increases as well. Meaning extending into France or Germany a little bit or possible more of the Netherlands, Denmark, a Server map increase to make up for max population.

I just want to know how many players can this games server hold at max occupancy? Exact or close estimates are welcome.

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Not sure what the capacity is with the recent hardware upgrade, but previously it was between 5000 and 10000 I recall. I think the rats said the new servers would increase capacity 3-4 times. These would be very heady numbers and would push the system hard. Unfortunately it can't really be load tested until the numbers log on. I sure hope it works as expected. One problem for sure would hitting the visible player limit. Mostly a problem for longer range engagements such as AAA and ATG.

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Not sure what the capacity is with the recent hardware upgrade, but previously it was between 5000 and 10000 I recall. I think the rats said the new servers would increase capacity 3-4 times. These would be very heady numbers and would push the system hard. Unfortunately it can't really be load tested until the numbers log on. I sure hope it works as expected. One problem for sure would hitting the visible player limit. Mostly a problem for longer range engagements such as AAA and ATG.

I too hope all goes well which I have no doubt it will all go well. Since this game is going to be releasing on steam i'm curious on just how many players this games whole map can actually fit lol.

Like I said a lot of people said millions while other said hundred of thousands. Any dev is welcome to comment as well.

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I'm not sure anyone really knows.

There are sight limits that matter, but if people are having a lot of problems due to sight limits game history shows they tend to go to other towns (I have been playing 16 years).

So if a lot of people join we are likely to have more AOs on more towns.

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as many as it needs, I doubt we would ever get 10's of thousands on at any time, But f it did, you could just add more capacity slowly overtime as needed.

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Server population is managed by cell hosts. A key requirement for us in our Steam launch is increasing the total concurrent user limit. While the introduction of 1.35 more than doubled that number, it is still insufficient to the total anticipated number of players inbound from Steam.

Therefore there is much work for us to do.

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Server population is managed by cell hosts. A key requirement for us in our Steam launch is increasing the total concurrent user limit. While the introduction of 1.35 more than doubled that number, it is still insufficient to the total anticipated number of players inbound from Steam.

Therefore there is much work for us to do.

What is your guys target size? What i'm really trying to say is how big of a server population are you guys scoring for in the long run or right now?

Is this server suppose to hold 20,000 or more?

are you guys trying to make it hold 100,000 players? sorry for the questions I, if not we, would like to know. I ask this because I reread some past posts from awhile ago and even today and I can tell that you guys are trying to really score big with the population capacity for this games server.

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100K would be an awesome nightmare. In theory the backend cell design xoom mentioned could do 100K but in practice ... highly unlikely.

Sent from my LG-V495 using Tapatalk

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Server population is managed by cell hosts. A key requirement for us in our Steam launch is increasing the total concurrent user limit. While the introduction of 1.35 more than doubled that number, it is still insufficient to the total anticipated number of players inbound from Steam.

Therefore there is much work for us to do.

Will visible limit be increased with a steam release?

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100K would be an awesome nightmare. In theory the backend cell design xoom mentioned could do 100K but in practice ... highly unlikely.

Sent from my LG-V495 using Tapatalk

100,000 players would be epic!

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player visibility should be already increased since players have more better computers etc than back then... i would say, double the visibility limit, when it hits steam increase it if people want, OR make it just adjustable like how many and distances. like: now 250 players in 500m, increase it to 500 players and in 750m?

for planes, tanks should be seen very long distance, not like 3km or under?

also what i have been noticed that im not sure if AA gunners see it so but at least inf can see enemy plane only from 100m if too much people in same place also they cant hear it, so its kinda annoying because you cannot adjust what you can see, how much and how far :/

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100,000 players would be epic!

would it? that's rhetorical as 100K players in the same general area isn't technically possible for any game engine or any client hardware.

my point, the epic nature of battles in this game aren't dependant on how many people the entire world is holding at any given time, its about the individual battles. currently the most people you'll ever see at once is 64 friendlies and 64 enemies. getting that number up to say 256v256 would feel more epic than the entire world holding 100K people with ... well lets round these numbers out.

102400 people online would theoretically equate to 800 battles that all have 128 people in them. meaning each of those 800 battles would be at the maximum limit in terms of what people can actually see/interact with.

I would rather see 12 battles with 512 players in each battle giving us 10240 online. each of those 12 battles would feel significantly more epic than the 800 smaller battles with only 128 people in them.

a more realistic achievement would be 24 battles each with 256 people and again 10240 online.

while over all population online at any given time is certainly epic, it boils down to the individual battle/AO and this will always be the limiting factor. you can only show so many objects at any given time - even with the fastest i7 and 2 x nvidia 1080s you have a finite amount of detail that can be shown.

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We're working towards a number of several thousand. Over 3,000 and at a peak of 10,000. You need to remember that this is a factor for concurrent users only, meaning people who are logged in simultaneously.

We'll be able to scale upwards as needed if our plans pan out how we want them. I can tell you that we're not reaching that low number at this point, and we have a lot of room we can grow on our current setup. That's about as much detail as I'm willing to provide.

Other than of course, every user (including free player) costs us money, with server space and bandwidth, and we really need to play our cards right so a blitz of new Steam users doesn't bring the house down, whether that be technical or financially.

We're going to work very closely with the Steam marketing team when it comes time for us to prepare for launching, and we'll be making some decisions to ensure our paying users are prioritized and our non-paying has the best option of getting in, without doing the damage I am referring to.

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any chance we can increase the visual limit xoom or is that fairly hard coded ATM? even bumping it by say 64 so we can get 96v96 would possibly go a longways towards that grander feeling.

hell, try increasing by 32 first, see what happens. by the time steam launches you're going to have the radeon rx 480 (out but hard to source still) and nvidia 1060s as the mid range $200 GPU option. AMDs new xen CPUs promising parity with intel (we'll see) and we should see $600 PCs that can push boat loads of detail at 1080p resolutions.

also ... any thoughts on compiling for 64bit? quite a few games are 64bit as standard these days. opening up that addressable ram space would be nice - if possible.

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My understanding on the visible distance limits is that they're logically related to the number of simultaneously interacting clients in a locale. If the distance limits are increased but the max number of clients in a locale isn't, the likelihood that there will be many instances of client X seeing client Y but not the reverse would greatly increase.

My understanding is that the number of users in a locale isn't limited by graphics cards or client CPUs, it's limited by:

(1) server processing speed. The server has to do a bunch of communications, database and security work. The maximum burst rate in a max density locale sets that rate.

(2) data packet size and rate. More packets per second of the same size at the same packet frequency per client would increase CRS's data bill, and a given level of server hardware has an upper limit as to data rate. There also are reasons to increase packet size, for more game functionality, and frequency, for less rubber-banding when players are moving fast and irregularly and to better resolve who-shot-first scenarios; but an increase of size and/or frequency would point toward a decrease in packets per second, not an increase.

More revenue of course can help with several of these limits, but FTP players don't provide revenue and a permanent increase in revenue is hard to predict in a guaranteed-to-happen way.

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any chance we can increase the visual limit xoom or is that fairly hard coded ATM? even bumping it by say 64 so we can get 96v96 would possibly go a longways towards that grander feeling.

hell, try increasing by 32 first, see what happens. by the time steam launches you're going to have the radeon rx 480 (out but hard to source still) and nvidia 1060s as the mid range $200 GPU option. AMDs new xen CPUs promising parity with intel (we'll see) and we should see $600 PCs that can push boat loads of detail at 1080p resolutions.

also ... any thoughts on compiling for 64bit? quite a few games are 64bit as standard these days. opening up that addressable ram space would be nice - if possible.

Cannot effectively answer this atm without consulting team members first. I would assume that it'd be something we want to have but is not a requirement to release on Steam.

With enough servers to manage the total amount of players spread through the campaign, and have more AO's on the map due to pop, I'm pretty sure we'd be alright.

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For sure more aos players etc = good but you know - bigger is better too 😀. Anything to differentiate us as something unique would be great. Last i recall planetside 2 also managed 128 visible players if we could up that just a bit might be a nice feather in a somewhat dated graphical cap.

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Nothing more frustrating than being killed my someone you cant see or did not render due to limits.

I know its not an issue now but in a steam release and population explosion it could become an issue. It will need to be addressed at some point...... albeit not urgent at the moment.

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My understanding is that the number of users in a locale isn't limited by graphics cards or client CPUs, it's limited by:

i had a long post that for some reason didn't post from the tablet .. anyway ... you're going to hit a wall faster on the client side than the server/network side.

if you're an infantry standing 1KM from town looking in to town your FPS is X. everytime you spawn another player model into the world your FPS is X minus. 30FPS is pretty much the industry standard for the performance floor that you never want to fall below if you can avoid it.

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We're working towards a number of several thousand. Over 3,000 and at a peak of 10,000. You need to remember that this is a factor for concurrent users only, meaning people who are logged in simultaneously.

We'll be able to scale upwards as needed if our plans pan out how we want them. I can tell you that we're not reaching that low number at this point, and we have a lot of room we can grow on our current setup. That's about as much detail as I'm willing to provide.

Other than of course, every user (including free player) costs us money, with server space and bandwidth, and we really need to play our cards right so a blitz of new Steam users doesn't bring the house down, whether that be technical or financially.

We're going to work very closely with the Steam marketing team when it comes time for us to prepare for launching, and we'll be making some decisions to ensure our paying users are prioritized and our non-paying has the best option of getting in, without doing the damage I am referring to.

That is pretty awesome numbers I must say. Also you said that you guy are trying to go higher is even more exciting which I say good job to all of you, you guys really made an epic game :) Can't wait for the steam release!

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The visual limit is 128 players (you can change this in the setting between 128 as in max to 64 and 32 as minimum). If there is more players then 128 within yours visible range will your client priorities what you see. The prioritation is dependent on what kind of vechile you spawn. Infantry prioritaze other infantry first, then tanks, guns and trucks. Then ships and aircrafts.

Aircrafts prioritaze other aircrafts. Then AA guns and ships. Infantry the last. And so on. Friendly is least prioritaze since they are not a threat.

Infantry isn't rendered until it is with in 600 meter or closer regardless how many units your client can see. Remember, it is not what you see on the screen that matters. It is all about what your client can see in a sphere like bubble - 360 degrees. You can't kill anything your client can't see. And if your client can't see it can't the enemy client not see you either. Hence you can't be killed from an enemy client who can't render you. So all infantry 600 meters out can't be killed by anything.

The most hard thing for your client to keep track of is lowflying aircrafts because they move relatively so fast in and out a battle scene (over a town with heavy fighting on the ground). Also remember that ever bullit, bomb and gunshell is rendered in the game. You don't see them on your screen (well you can actually see a bomb dropping on your head if you look up) but they are all there flying back and forth. And your client keeping track over every single one of them. That is one of the reasons why the game world can't afford to look like CoD. There is too much for your client to keep track of and calculate the ballistic track. Even when a shell or a bomb explodes will it generate new fragments that your client need to keep track of. That is why you can stand next to an explosion and you can survive. If you not hit by a piece from the shell or the bomb won't you die. In other games will you die just because you are within the deathzone and statisticly should die. It was like this in WWIIOL before, but not anymore.

High flying aircraft at lets say 6000 meter hight can't "see" much on the ground. However, if the pilot starts circulating over a target will its client start rendering targets on the ground. Like tanks and guns. Now will the pilot's bombs be leathal if he drops them over lets say an AB. But the bombs won't kill infantry directly since infantry at a distance over 600 meters isn't rendered (see above). However, the bombs can kill infantry indirectly by demolating buildings and kill all infantry (including friendly) that is inside these buildings.

So, when the visual limit is 128 and you spawned as an infantry and you don't see any friendly, or you only see friendly close to you you know there is alot of enemy around you. And expect that there is much more going on around you then you can "see". :cool:

Edited by Sparre

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The graphics can be significantly better than they are the vis limitations dont govern that. Xoom calls this technical debt and basically what that means is certain things havent been updated in a long time. The client renderer is one of those. As i recall we are on opengl 3.2. The current stable version of opengl is 4.5 and it was released in 2014 to give you some context.

With multi threading and newer versions of opengl the client renderer would be capable of significantly higher levels of detail. With those and a 64 bit client it might even be possible to increase the vis limit.

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So if you guys are scoring for pretty big numbers beyond 10,000 or so for this game, that's pretty epic! :) I do however have a question on this.

If you guys are going for big numbers whether it's 10,000 or 20,000 or 40,000 players, will the map also grow in size?

So far it's just Holland, little bit of the Netherlands, little bit of Germany, little bit of France, Luxemburg, and a little bit of England.

Do you guys plan on making the map bigger to make up for the population increase? meaning maybe adding some more of Germany and France and England and the Netherlands and so forth?

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