jeffcraft1

another rant

67 posts in this topic

first off, ill say some good things about this game.

its absolutely unique. its a great concept. can be fun as hell.

having said that, this game really needs a better spotting/reporting system. im so tired of someone reporting that someone is in a certain spot, trying to find the person only to get killed by them from 200 meters away from where they were reported. while i admire your ability to remain true to a simulation as possible, i know I and other new players are tired of this happening. it couldent be hard to change the spotting system. i come to play this game to de-stress and i end up getting more stressed because of that crap. you can say "practice practice practice" all you want but that doesnt mean crap if the person who spotted whatever enemy unit is. if they mark them incorrectly. as a paying player along with other paying new players suggest this needs to be fixed. dont believe its not only me that thinks this? take a poll. you will be surprised at how many dislike this spotting/reporting system. it takes a LOT of the fun out of this game. great game concept, but it needs to be fixed

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Hey Jeff,

Thanks for taking the time to write this. How do you feel that this could be better? If you were to spend a few moments to reflect on what we currently have, and what it is we could to to make it better by writing out a concept, what would that look like from your point of view?

I'd be very interested to read it. S!

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i think being able to see their movements on the map screen like seeing how your allies move would be a big help. it doesnt have to be all the time. just after being spotted like maybe 30 seconds or once out of the persons who spotted the unit is out of view. maybe a mark on the screen like above their heads but something like that should be stationary since it would make it too easy if it followed the unit after being spotted. id like to keep some of the realisim. also make a key binding to press to mark/spot said unit instead of having to go to the map to spot because that unit could be a lot farther away from where you have spotted it by having to go through the map to spot it.

to sum it up:

see enemy movement in real time on map for 30 seconds after being spotted

place marker above the unit on screen after they have been spotted but the mark should be stationary

use a key to spot enemies instead of having to go to the map to report.

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yes i realize that lol. its just a suggestion. i mean it would make it easier on new players. and its not like i said you could constantly see where they are. the length of time can be adjusted

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This isn't COD.

^^^

even RL one of the biggest issues is range estimation / target ID and marking.l

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im not saying turn it in to team death match or run around and shoot people on small maps. i just saying that i think it could be improved. i love this game, i really do. ive never seen anything like it before. im just saying it would be easier on new players ive been here since june i think. while my accuracy has improved a good bit. in urban combat or trying to actually get into town im usually dead in under two minutes because of the current reporting and marking system. put yourself in my shoes. would it be very fun if you died before you even got into the ao or within 2 minutes of spawining? wouldent it be awful frustrating and discouraging to basically be useless on a mission?

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would it be very fun if you died before you even got into the ao or within 2 minutes of spawining? wouldent it be awful frustrating and discouraging to basically be useless on a mission?

Been here 15 years that pretty much describes the majority of game play (2 minutes could be considered a success unto itself in some of the battles). This game is more brutal than most in that regard. part if the issue arises because in RL you have the ability to judge range to having 2 eyes, but in game have a singular point of view so unless there's something that matches up to the map exact range is somewhat of an art.

Could the marking system be improved sure, making and auto-mark and move tracker isn't the best if it's going to retain any semblance of realism.

Under your system what exactly constitutes 'spotted' ? there are already many, many, many players who have trouble believing that they got shot by someone who was in a good position. I can only forsee that becoming an even bigger issue when one side is able to (near)accurately mark the other (outside of human control). How long would a player have to 'lock' onto an enemy to activate the mark? Could one simply scan a woodline and every enemy there be marked? would the player (still) have to manually guess where the enemy is? If it tracks the enemy movement, do your 'spottings' transfer over to others? If an enemy doesn't move does that mark drop off faster?

Edited by B2K

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As I understand your frustration this is one of the things that makes this game unique in that it brings realism in that even though the enemy is marked you have to approach with caution and be prepared for the unexpected as he may have friends that are near by and not marked etc.

Edited by ehstrike

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Been here 15 years that pretty much describes the majority of game play (2 minutes could be considered a success unto itself in some of the battles). This game is more brutal than most in that regard. part if the issue arises because in RL you have the ability to judge range to having 2 eyes, but in game have a singular point of view so unless there's something that matches up to the map exact range is somewhat of an art.

Could the marking system be improved sure, making and auto-mark and move tracker isn't the best if it's going to retain any semblance of realism.

Under your system what exactly constitutes 'spotted' ? there are already many, many, many players who have trouble believing that they got shot by someone who was in a good position. I can only forsee that becoming an even bigger issue when one side is able to (near)accurately mark the other (outside of human control). How long would a player have to 'lock' onto an enemy to activate the mark? Could one simply scan a woodline and every enemy there be marked? would the player (still) have to manually guess where the enemy is? If it tracks the enemy movement, do your 'spottings' transfer over to others? If an enemy doesn't move does that mark drop off faster?

1.spotted in this instance would mean clearly see an enemy unit. if the person is well hidden. then you cant spot them. its not an auto spot system you would have to clearly see said unit for 3-5 seconds and then hit a key to spot said unit

2.no, they would have to have direct line of sight on a unit and can only mark units clearly visible to them. and even then they would have to mark each unit. the mark on the players screen would only show the position they were spotted at. the only way to see the curent movement of the target would be

A. you have clearly seen and marked that unit.

B. the units movement would be marked ONLY on the map, and if close enough on the minimap. and even then the ammount of time their movement on the map/minimap would havea time limit 10 seconds would actually probably be for the best as opposed to the length i gave earlier. if the unit ran into the field of view clearly to someone else while marked, for that EU to remain marked the other person has to mark them or their time runs out like normal soldier 1 marks target, target moves into view of soldier 2 and be marked by soldier 2 to continue to be tracked

im trying to come up with something better than the current system but still retain some of the guesswork so its not as hard to find out where someone is but not to easy to make it boring

Edited by jeffcraft1

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If there were any form of auto-spotting or updating system, that would probably push me to stop playing the game for good, instead of quitting and coming back. The realism is what keeps it alive for me.

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to sum it up:

see enemy movement in real time on map for 30 seconds after being spotted

place marker above the unit on screen after they have been spotted but the mark should be stationary

use a key to spot enemies instead of having to go to the map to report.

Umm....no.

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First off I would not rely on marks being very accurate. It's better to question the validity of the mark than assume it is accurate. I'm not a very good marker. This comes from my real life where I say stuff like, it's a short hike maybe 15 minutes when it's closer to an hour or I think it's about a mile down the road when its usually 2 or 3. I'm just not a good judge of distance visually and mentally. I've gotten better by using the different colors in the field tiles or other nearby objects. Anyway, be more patient and use your ears more. Sound is the only thing you can really rely on.

We all die a lot early on and often, that's the BRUTALLY realistic part. You'll get better. My learning curve is a long one. I'm still trying to figure some stuff out and I'm old and I forget stuff. LOL.

As to your spotting recommendation. I would suggest this type of auto spotting system after looking at your proposal.

A few things to clear up first. Enemy marks should never move, tracking in this environment is a non starter I would think. In addition any marks always appear only on the maps never in the actual field of view in game play like the friendly tags do if you have them enabled.

I would suggest that a player should be able to spot maybe according to rank. The more rank you have the more accurate the spot will be. Even the best mark should be off by some amount. Some distance the grizzled veterans around here agree is fair. If you can get them to agree.

Part of the problem with that and auto spot is that you will take that ability away from the actual player. There are some fantastic spotters in the game and now you kind of take that ability and connected pride from those excellent spotters. But moving on.

Same as you say, the game has to be able to recognize when you have spotted something. Once that occurs, under whatever restrictions CRS and the crew feel sounds right; a mark is automatically placed on the map with some small margin of error assigned to rank.

Basically an auto spot without tracking. It could even be that simple with a small margin of error and no tracking and not tied to rank. You could even remove the small margin of error if the player is using their binoculars to spot.

Not sure if that flies either but it is a compromise.

S!

Edited by stonecomet

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i would agree to that. any real improvement on it that might make it a bit easier on new players i would be ok with

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Any good sniper will tell you shoot and move , yes it is frustrating getting killed like you describe as it happens to me all the time(I'm a dumbass tho) What you need to work is your spotting and being able to narrow down the area that ei is in.Yes it's a challenge but getting the kill after a few frustrating attempts is a bit of a rush lol.The mark on the map is a general location for only a minute or so unless it's a set up et or atg so expect that mark to have moved on and try and cut him off or flank him.I'm not the best one to show anyone how to hunt ei/efru's but just work some basic interception tactics and play around with different stuff to improve your hunting skills.

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Good idea jeffcraft1! I have no issue with a spotted ei appearing on the map for 30sec; although I likely wouldn't support this "training wheel" if its period extends over 1min. Don't worry about the grognards' calling foul on realism as a lot of that was traded out earlier for fun and ease-of-use when all soldiers were given precise GPS maps of NW France and S Belgium that include zoom, pans, aircraft radar and clear, precise, deletable graphic icon marks.

Just my dirty little ho

;-)

Edited by vonguff

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Good grief, if I ever saw people even marking contacts in the first place I'd be too amazed to even worry about their accuracy. I'd be like "What are these things on the map? I don't remember placing those there."

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there has t be some kind of compromise cause dying that quickly is making me want to quit.

GPS map for the ground units is already this compromise (though personally I would like to do it even less accurate).

But, GPS map for air units is overkill, IMHO.

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tell people to use "?" as well as a mark, or make ant trails

no marks is a huge problem on the axis side, even when overpop sometimes there's not a single mark... it's better on allied, but still not very accurate.

Hey Jeff,

Thanks for taking the time to write this. How do you feel that this could be better? If you were to spend a few moments to reflect on what we currently have, and what it is we could to to make it better by writing out a concept, what would that look like from your point of view?

I'd be very interested to read it. S!

how about adding a small arrow to marks, and a (optional?) transparent circle.

so multiple marks overlap and make a bright area, it would take a lot of guesswork out, and encourage multiple marks.

the arrow would help with our ant trails.

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A simple in between solution would be to allow people to 'mark' enemies by pressing a key while pointing looking at that unit. If possible the game could automatically choose the correct mark depending on what was being looked or aimed at, so if looking at infantry it uses the infantry mark, if a tank then tanks, etc.

If you want to add a fog of war element to it since not everyone in real life was a perfect spotter, you could fuzz the location a bit by adding a randomized offset, with the amount of offset being based on the distance between the player marking the map and the object being marked.

On top of that, leave the current system in place for people who want to manually mark based on landmarks, and to leave marking available for mortars, question marks, danger symbols, etc. Maybe add the ability to mark in different colors so that squads and sides can develop their own codes (for example, red for auto marks and green for manual marks)

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How about simply modifying the current marks with a bearing arrow so we can show the direction the enemy is coming from?

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

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Stop relying on others' marks as gospel and instead focus on identifying targets yourself. Then and only then will you note improvement. Marks should be used as a general "enemy near here - beware" method. If you need additional information or level of accuracy, the mark reports the marker's handle, so you can either ask in target chat or PM that person. I do it all the time when trying to locate stuff on CAS runs.

But one thing is for certain: this game should never have a temporary spotted/enemy unit location/tag system. Ever.

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Marks goal is to give you a notion of the enemy position. Not the exact one.

Plus what makes you think that precise marks and icons would make you die less?

Quite the oposite. The enemy team would have 2 guys on binos 24hrs spotting and the enemy tanks would be ripping u apart no matter how hidden you are.

Another example: After driving your tank for 10 mins you arrive in the AO and one infantry spot you, all the suddently all the enemy tanks can see a frikking red icon over your head and you would be dead instantly.

This idea is just real bad.

Edited by kpfzer

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