jeffcraft1

another rant

67 posts in this topic

Understand the concern, but I'd say no.

The game already offers unprecedented knowledge of units all over the map. We have nearly instant comms between all units (radios channels) and marks already are instantly seen by all units at target.

The 10 or 15 seconds it takes you to pause, open map, mark and close map is extremely quick for providing knowledge to every game player on target.

Remember, it simulates you getting to a radio person, the radio person sending comms up the army channel, the channel then forwarding that information to navy and air logistics (different radio systems) and then the army channel sending comms back down to the other army units. (sister platoons, companies, etc)

I'd almost go so far to say, that marks should only be seen by those on same mission (not target), and air and 1 man turret tanks should never see marks. (unless they make their own) Though, this might be a bit too realistic.

Edited by delems

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let me give you some tips. No particular order.

Even if you see marks on map..never assume they are accurate.

If you spawn in and die immediately r maybe within first 10-30 secs FRU is camped..move on. My rule..if i spawn in and and die..i have a 2 max policy..then im on to the next.

Never shoot 3 times from the same place and expect to live very long...shoot and move. Unless you have a great field of view.

When you spawn in. Immediately RUN! While running look for the nearest cover..hide..the get ur bearings on what is going on.

Assume you're up against a squad and there will be more than one in any area at a given time (many squads in game) and they are good.

This game is hard..its why i keep comeing back...we dont need any more "features" of knowing where the enemy is...the skulls are bad enough..and the radar if you like to fly..

My biggest thing I can tell you that will help is join a squad and get teamspeak..this is a MUST. Learn from an experienced player will greatly help.. i was a lost puppy when i first started playing this game....and count yourself lucky..I'm just now starting to see good numbers in game again....maybe its because the mericans are in...dunno..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Good idea jeffcraft1! I have no issue with a spotted ei appearing on the map for 30sec; although I likely wouldn't support this "training wheel" if its period extends over 1min. Don't worry about the grognards' calling foul on realism as a lot of that was traded out earlier for fun and ease-of-use when all soldiers were given precise GPS maps of NW France and S Belgium that include zoom, pans, aircraft radar and clear, precise, deletable graphic icon marks.

Just my dirty little ho

;-)

thank you for your support! :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Let me give you some tips. No particular order.

Even if you see marks on map..never assume they are accurate.

If you spawn in and die immediately r maybe within first 10-30 secs FRU is camped..move on. My rule..if i spawn in and and die..i have a 2 max policy..then im on to the next.

Never shoot 3 times from the same place and expect to live very long...shoot and move. Unless you have a great field of view.

When you spawn in. Immediately RUN! While running look for the nearest cover..hide..the get ur bearings on what is going on.

Assume you're up against a squad and there will be more than one in any area at a given time (many squads in game) and they are good.

This game is hard..its why i keep comeing back...we dont need any more "features" of knowing where the enemy is...the skulls are bad enough..and the radar if you like to fly..

My biggest thing I can tell you that will help is join a squad and get teamspeak..this is a MUST. Learn from an experienced player will greatly help.. i was a lost puppy when i first started playing this game....and count yourself lucky..I'm just now starting to see good numbers in game again....maybe its because the mericans are in...dunno..

i think im still in 91st unfortunately i cant run teamspeak and the game on this laptop at the same time. it kills my fps i usually can only get about 20 fps and having team speak running at the same time drops my fps to down to about 5 fps. im not sure why this game takes so much resources. ive been able to run war thunder on here with no problems with the fps

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There was a time not too long ago, that there wasnt an ability to put marks on a map.

Text communication was the only way to tell people what and where you saw something.

EI inb 300m NE

PZ hull down s side of the rd 1km.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
stop relying on others' marks as gospel and instead focus on identifying targets yourself. Then and only then will you note improvement. Marks should be used as a general "enemy near here - beware" method. If you need additional information or level of accuracy, the mark reports the marker's handle, so you can either ask in target chat or pm that person. I do it all the time when trying to locate stuff on cas runs.

But one thing is for certain: This game should never have a temporary spotted/enemy unit location/tag system. Ever.

^^^ this ^^^

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think a big part of the poor reporting comes from having a virtually featureless map to put marks on. That, and the range ring the adjusts to different zoom levels isn't easy to figure out.

For instance, you spot a Matty, go to the map to report it. You're in a field... without forests nearby. You estimate by using the ring where it MIGHT be, but find your own mark isn't right, despite trying to do a good job and well... there is no point of reference on the map to make your marks.

Couple that with the frigged up way that people who cannot for the life of them figure out how to set mission target to the TOWN you're defending... and how nobody on mission with a depot-mission target can see what is being marked on the missions with the TOWN as a target... and then add another layer of friggary with different brigades... and it's just a mess.

My suggestion is to remove all but the town or FB as a target, and make all brigades in a town able to see marks from other flags.

Solved.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Couple that with the frigged up way that people who cannot for the life of them figure out how to set mission target to the TOWN you're defending... and how nobody on mission with a depot-mission target can see what is being marked on the missions with the TOWN as a target... and then add another layer of friggary with different brigades... and it's just a mess.

.

I'm just starting to figure this out myself lulz.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You play long enough Jeff you will have that figured out. As mentioned, never assume anything is accurate, just something in that area. We have all gone through what you are going through, there's a learning curve. Shoot, some of us have gone away a few years and come back to do it all over again ;)

It takes time, and a lot of battles. If you love the concept of the game and anything ww2 peaks your interest, this is the place to be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
there has t be some kind of compromise cause dying that quickly is making me want to quit.

Here's a couple things I have learned.

Don't walk in the open. Don't walk. LOOK, and LOOK again before moving. Then move in a hurry. Don't follow the ant trail. And get used to dieing. Been here on and off since the beginning, and I still die. Alot.

Auto marks, and the like would kill this game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Stop relying on others' marks as gospel and instead focus on identifying targets yourself. Then and only then will you note improvement. Marks should be used as a general "enemy near here - beware" method. If you need additional information or level of accuracy, the mark reports the marker's handle, so you can either ask in target chat or PM that person. I do it all the time when trying to locate stuff on CAS runs.

But one thing is for certain: this game should never have a temporary spotted/enemy unit location/tag system. Ever.

Agreed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
i think im still in 91st unfortunately i cant run teamspeak and the game on this laptop at the same time. it kills my fps i usually can only get about 20 fps and having team speak running at the same time drops my fps to down to about 5 fps. im not sure why this game takes so much resources. ive been able to run war thunder on here with no problems with the fps

If you think you are in a squad, you are not in other than tag. Use squad channel. Usually F4. Get active with the squad. The 91st are good guys. This game can't be spoon fed, but you can learn. Chat on the channel, ask questions. Go where they go. Watch what they do. Being in a squad really means something in this game. You need to WORK with the team. Even if you get killed alot(we all do). It will get better as time goes on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Jeffcraft, can we turn the frustration around now and look at the other player and this scenario:

"I am a rifleman and have a position in good cover with covered exits. An enemy runs close to me and I shoot him dead. Suspecting I have been spotted I decide to move. Moving carefully using cover I move 40 yards to a new position which is again in excellent cover.

Unfortunately for me I have been spotted and my position including my movements are being watched by an enemy armoured car. The armoured car player has not seen me at all but using his 'radar' he tracks my movement as he drives towards my position and his first long burst of MG fire kills me despite my intelligent play and excellent use of cover."

The above scenario is how your recommendation will play out and is IMHO far more frustrating, gamey and terrible than present gameplay that rewards smart play.

Your suggestion would make player life expectancy even shorter and play more frustrating. Any time you are seen by any opposing player and marked your life expectancy would plummet whilst the radar tracks your movement and no level of smart play would help you. You turn the game into a run and gun style of play.

Terrible idea.

Edited by cavalier

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only fix is not in the spotting system. I think it is in how some of the newer players perceive it. Just because a mark is there, doesn't mean that there is a 100% guarentee

1. it is accurate.

2. It is what it is marked as

3. It is even still where the mark was placed.

So, a person seeing a mark come up has to still be careful and do some scouting and looking around. Don't just look at the location of the mark, look N S E W of the mark check the building over. Be cautious, there is something around there. Keep an eye on everything from you to it.

I love it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would be satisfied with a interface like battlefield you aim press a key opens a pop up and it marks automatically the exact position with a raycast from the player camera.

But this would automatically mark the tank at that position in time maybe even with some small inaccuracy.

In the end to update a mark you would always had to visibility over him and this mark could become easily obsolete because it's realistic.

Tip:

If you want to mark well the enemy it's a multiple step solution first you mark a estimate position, then you move towards the target and keep improving the mark always reporting on the target channel.

Sometimes if you see a friendly player oblivious to that enemy the best is to message him directly, I sometimes do this to multiple players...

Sometimes even guiding tanks/guns directly and correct their aim is the best approach.

By the way the best mark are Smoke grenades it's the most accurate visual mark if you throw at the exact position of the enemy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A topo map would help the accuracy of marks, but I'm betting that would be a pretty big project for CRS to undertake during a given agile iteration. Not sure how popular that would be either. Some would probably like it, and others would hate it.

As others have noted, the problem with marks is that they are not a true indicator of the enemy's position since the EI or the vehicle has likely moved or never stopped moving when you placed the mark.

In my opinion, they are best used as a visual queue to friendlies. Sort of a "slow down and scan that area" before running into it like there is free stuff on the other side of it.

Edited by skers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I would be satisfied with a interface like battlefield you aim press a key opens a pop up and it marks automatically the exact position with a raycast from the player camera.

Bad idea. Make it too good of a mark, that will allow aircraft to drop bombs blind. It's hard enough to survive in a tank now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The more i think on the the worse it sounds. All that will happen is the game will devolve into small teams sitting on defense scanning until one of them marks something.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bad idea. Make it too good of a mark, that will allow aircraft to drop bombs blind. It's hard enough to survive in a tank now.

But this would automatically mark the tank at that position in time maybe even with some small inaccuracy.

The mark wouldn't move already balances plus destroying tanks with bombs is very hard.

Edited by pbveteran

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can't code out people who are using good comms and teamplay to get an edge, they are the ones who need to be rewarded.

This is how the vets use marks:

Firstly as a spotter you give approx direction and distance mark. APPROXIMATELY.

Every vet knows marks represent approximates unless announced or stated on map as 'EXACT'.

I'm not shouting btw, it's just emphasis and I'm lazy with bb code :D

Too many elements of this game rely on rewarding teamplay and comms. Auto spotting like in WoT is a bad idea and just disassociate players yet more.

Teamplay/squadplay is something you need to do. It's part of this game and if you don't do it you will always be a victim to those who do.

Even if the squad isn't doing something official together I know by turning up in the same locations and getting on TS I will be involved in good comms and teamwork. Marks on the map are not even needed a lot of the time because we describe by features in the terrain.

You should use comms and accept the fog of war as part of what makes this game unique in all honesty. I know it deters from fast action adrenaline but if you play it to its potential there is nothing as good on the market, trust me.

Marking is just fine, get good at it yourself and then work with others who do the same.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When an enemy is marked, he isn't going to stand there and let you kill him. He will stay on the move, and may be quite some distance from the original mark. Look at the mark and judge for yourself where he might be. It is Common Sense. EIs mark you...are you going to stay in one spot & let them kill you? I doubt it... :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hello Jeffcraft, can we turn the frustration around now and look at the other player and this scenario:

"I am a rifleman and have a position in good cover with covered exits. An enemy runs close to me and I shoot him dead. Suspecting I have been spotted I decide to move. Moving carefully using cover I move 40 yards to a new position which is again in excellent cover.

Unfortunately for me I have been spotted and my position including my movements are being watched by an enemy armoured car. The armoured car player has not seen me at all but using his 'radar' he tracks my movement as he drives towards my position and his first long burst of MG fire kills me despite my intelligent play and excellent use of cover."

The above scenario is how your recommendation will play out and is IMHO far more frustrating, gamey and terrible than present gameplay that rewards smart play.

Your suggestion would make player life expectancy even shorter and play more frustrating. Any time you are seen by any opposing player and marked your life expectancy would plummet whilst the radar tracks your movement and no level of smart play would help you. You turn the game into a run and gun style of play.

Terrible idea.

not sure why people arent getting this. let me put it to you like how it really works for new players since not many seem to get it. for a new player its very very very frustrating because lets say your supposed to attack a town and someone for once actually made a semi accurate mark you do your "scan everything" deal and cant see anything. you get fired at but you cant see wher its comming from. and end up sitting there for 15 to 30 minutes while everyone else in town is doing exciting stuff and actually participating and having fun. after 30 minutes of sitting there you get tired of waiting there and do your best to move ahead or do what ever you got to do to get into town and within less than a minute you get shot dead by someone you cant see and is most likely the same person that was marked. how would you feel if you couldent make it into the AO from any direction. you are then determined to get into the AO and you die and respawn after 45 minutes of this how would you feel if you couldent get in to town. this is NOT FUN its absolutely frustrating. everyone keeps talking about a "learning curve" i still dont see any learning curve to this its either your good or you arent no in between. as i said if you poll most beginning players i would say that about 75% of them will leave the game and never come back. this is why it needs change.and i know some of you wil talk about realism but lets talk about that for a minute. this game by no means is realistic. if it were truly realistic you get one life. if you die your computer shuts off and never turns back on again, respawning is not realistic.and yet none of you all say anything about that. but try to make the game a bit more enjoyable for new people (which would increase the population of the game and give it a better of a chance of not shutting down because of how presumeably expensive it is to run this game. to keep this game up nd going i would willingly give up atleast a small bit of "Realisim" this game has to have more fun and keep the game open

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.