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sublimesw

We Need Medics!

54 posts in this topic

I think the only wounds in game are something that you can walk away from.  I'd like it if there were worse wounds, but I'm just being crazy...

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21 hours ago, mikeaz said:

Do we have minor wounds in game? I would think wounded soldiers would go to a hosp and be lost for sometime.

LOL that would be rich...

 

You get injured and RTB, and then you spawn in a hospital and have to eat ice cream with LT. Dan and play ping pong until you are well enough to return to the fight.

 

We could have campaign ping pong awards.

 

"Lieutenant Dan... Ice cream!" 

pingpong.jpg

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The most historically accurate and realistic way to solve the "medic" problem is to introduce Pervitin to the Axis forces and Benzedrine to the Allied forces.

Edited by selvendar
font issues

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To elaborate, both WW2 battlefield drugs would allow a wounded soldier to function normally for a few extra minutes even with a mortal wound.  After a set amount of time, said soldier would drop dead.  Of course, additional damage to that soldier would also finish him off.

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On ‎10‎/‎19‎/‎2016 at 6:57 AM, XOOM said:

Any sort of medic system in the future that we could put together, would include basic bandages and morphine, not enough to magically heal people, and certainly no med-kits that suddenly increase your percentage of life. It would be just enough to stop bleeding or buy them a little bit more time to RTB.

If Medics can't work, I really like the idea of some sort of medical supplies... or at least a shorter bleeding time. Maybe it's just me, but I get really annoyed when my movement is just slowed, no stamina recovery, and losing health at less than a turtle's strolling pace; I'd rather just die in the matter of 15 seconds after receiving a minor wound.

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"medics" would need to pull multiple duties to be a viable use of resources. It would also need to play the role of tank/veh repair/salvage.

I do like the idea of getting a dead commander back in a tank.

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On 10/19/2016 at 2:35 PM, base21 said:

giving a damaged unit a rescue instead of removing that unit from the spawn

I like this INF "wounded" RESCUE despawn option too.  I've gotten slightly wounded and then stuck around the map to kill EI up to 20 minutes before despawning (by choice) only to see in the AAR that I was KIA -- very disappointing.  Please change this.  I get the damage mechanics for vehicles, which (at least as I understand them) become KIA when the gunner or driver is killed and that unit is rendered ineffective and therefore lost on the battlefield -- but for INF, the KIA model should only activate when you bleed out.

And why isn't there a CAPTURED despawn status for INF?  Seems to me that if you are within EWS range of an enemy controlled town, if you despawn, it should be an automatic CAPTURED status -- wounded or not (unless of course you are RTB-ing to a FRU).  I think this would give players a bit more incentive to try to make it back to their own lines (or at least out of range of imminent capture) before despawning.

Edited by madeuce65
typos

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On 10/4/2016 at 11:36 PM, jwilly said:

No one in real life stops bleeding from a rifle round passing through a torso, or hitting an arm or leg bone.

Per CRS in the early days, minor wounds are not modeled. Only major, life-threatening ones. The kind that you don't fix with a simple bandage.

I'm sorry. People keep SAYING that, but in effect, it's  not true. We ay not get medics, but do NOT try to sit there and say that we don't have different wound levels, because it's simply not true. There are multiple wound levels:


1. Slightly hurt (Green reduced)

2. Light Wound( Both Red and Green slightly reduced)

3. Wounded (Red goes to half/ Green reduced by 3/4) Movement is impaired

4. Seriously Wounded (Red almost gone. Green almost gone) Movement seriously impaired, and vision is cloudy.

5. Dead

As I have maintained, if they are going to have multiple wound levels, then the idea of a Medic that can treat those levels is not so ridiculous as many say.
 

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It's hard to say this without offending someone. I don't want to do that. I understand the reservations that some of you have against 'magical' healing. I will debate that another time, when this comes up again.(And it will)

There have a been a NUMBER of very well thought out suggestions as to how to implement a Medic into the game. Unfortunately, after watching many, many replies and opinions, I have come to a conclusion that there is one reason that seems to overwhelm all others: By and large, a LOT of people do not want any players to have the option to play a non-combat role, and they simply don't CARE if a Medic could be justifiable or not. The very concept that some of us might not want to play the'run and gun' game that they feel is important is something that should be squashed without mercy before it can begin to spread. I know that sounds harsh, but go back and read a lot of threads about this subject. A lot of people don't even want us to be able to discuss the idea. They just say "NO", "I'll quit if you even consider it", and some less than polite responses as well. It seems like many people want to make sure that NO player has any choice except to play the direct combat game.

If you don't believe me, read some posts that have been made regarding people who prefer to play engineers, the only support role in the game. There have been many comments made about how engineers 'ruin the fun' for other players. (Consider that engineers blow FBs, bridges and buildings, and repair AI.) "Dorks with their erector sets" is one that has always stuck in my mind. There have also been negative comments made about players who aren't 'contributing' to combat the way that  others feel that they should. It bothers me that there seems to be a general consensus that if players aren't contributing in combat, then they shouldn't be playing.

My thought is this. Before people decide to shut down any and all discussion of non-combat roles...try to remember that there are people who don't want to play the way that YOU do. it doesn't matter that this is a PVP combat game. It can be much more than that if we let it. Not everyone is here to rack up the biggest kill score. Some people just want to play a really good WWII game. And guess what? that includes NON-combat roles. I have seen it in other games...some folks LIKE playing engineers, and mechanics, and medics.  We are paying players, just as much as anyone else. We should have the same right to suggest that CRS consider adding such roles

People want a WWII game/ simulator, but they only want direct combat units included? That's no more realistic than Medics who magically heal wounds.

!S



 

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The past CRS plan for medic introduction would have been  explicitly intended to add non-combat gameplay, with practically no effect on the surrounding combat players unless the idea was married with the simultaneous discussions of unit morale. It was extensively discussed in the beta/research forum, and that was Gopher's plan.

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Only way to do it is to make a unit return faster to the spawn pool. But as said before. It is a waste of time. There is so much more other things that needs to be added before we can speed up the return rate to the spawn list.

Tank repairment units on the other hand would be cool. Primerily to fix detracked tanks, and maybe also a de gunned tank. But it should take a couple of minutes to do it.

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On Wednesday, September 28, 2016 at 1:07 AM, major0noob said:

how about giving a damaged unit a rescue instead of removing that unit from the spawn

This

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On Wednesday, October 19, 2016 at 3:57 PM, XOOM said:

Any sort of medic system in the future that we could put together, would include basic bandages and morphine, not enough to magically heal people, and certainly no med-kits that suddenly increase your percentage of life. It would be just enough to stop bleeding or buy them a little bit more time to RTB.

That would work if the damage model of infantries can be audited. 

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Medics could be useful and playable. They are no more a waste of time to those who would like to play them, than developing a B-17 would be to Pilots who want on of those. It's a matter of what each player wants to play. There is no shortage of direct combat units in the game.

It's been said that there is no wounded state, but there is. If that was modified a bit, Medic play could become integral to the game.

1. Change wound states to A: Slightly wounded. Red down 25%, Green down 25%, but player continues to slowly bleed until they are at B: Seriously wounded. Red at 50% and Green at 50%. Player starts to bleed faster . At this point both Health and Stamina continue to drop until player dies. ( 3-5 minutes? ) Heartbeat sound starts at 25% Health, and vision gets cloudy. If player RTBs while wounded, the unit takes as long to return to supply as a KIA, as usual.

2. When a unit is wounded, it's icon on the map turns yellow. A Medic player can then proceed to the player and apply Medical aid. This will stop bleeding unless the wounded player is hurt again. If wounded player is at/below 25% health, vision clears and heartbeat stops.

3. The Medic player would be able to place 2 PPOs: Sandbags, and a Stretcher. The Stretcher laste for 1 minute, and can be placed anywhere. Any WOUNDED unit that decides to despawn at the stretcher would be an RTB, BUT that unit would be returned to supply as if it had never been injured, becoming available again in 5 minutes.

4. Medics would carry  medical kits, binoculars,  a shovel, and extra smoke grenades. They could help other units  cap CPs.

5. Medics would be clearly marked. Killing one would result in a negative multiplier on the killer's K/D stats.

6. Medics could get points for applying Medical Aid, capping, and for those who despawn at stretchers.


Just one possible system for Medics, that does not involve any magic healing, but allows for plenty of useful play. Units that have a Medic with them could last longer in the field, and members could RTB without penalty when wounded, helping reduce supply losses.
 

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#5 was discussed by CRS in the past as not practical because it would create a griefing mechanism, and the semi-engineer functionality seems odd, but otherwise these are interesting ideas.

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*** #5 was discussed by CRS in the past as not practical because it would create a griefing mechanism

Not really, can't hurt friendlies.  They are no more vulnerable than any other unit, LMG, schreck, etc.

 

I like the idea of some sort of medic too, not sure the details.

Edited by delems

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4 hours ago, jwilly said:

#5 was discussed by CRS in the past as not practical because it would create a griefing mechanism, and the semi-engineer functionality seems odd, but otherwise these are interesting ideas.

I'm curious as to how having a negative impact on the K/D of someone who kills a Medic would be a griefing mechanic...?

Semi- Engineer functionality? I don't see that, I f you mean the ability to build sandbags, I think most units can do that, and why woulod a Medic not be able to? I have seen and heard medics helping place sandbags IRL. It's no different than building a foxhole, and many medics have done that as well. Smoke grenades make sense, as Medicswould want to reach injured soldiers who are under fire, and smoke grenades are not an offensive weapon. And last, I see no reason that Medic could not be a body that can cap, they just would not be able to defend anything.

Or are you talking about the stretcher idea?

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6 hours ago, Quincannon said:

I'm curious as to how having a negative impact on the K/D of someone who kills a Medic would be a griefing mechanic...?

If killing the class I'm playing costs you points, I might choose to use that class as a special assault unit...charging directly at enemy snipers or LMGs so that they'd have to choose between killing me or ceasing fire. Or, I might charge across an open field to draw fire, while my associates watched for the sources of that enemy fire.

Of course, you wouldn't play that way. But the game doesn't have enough game managers 24/7/365 to constantly watch everywhere for griefing. CRS has said in the past that every griefing mechanism in the game, will be used until they code it out.

Edited by jwilly

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Yeah, you know, after posting this and having played the game for about four months now, I am against introducing medics. I believe that modeling only major wounds (lethal or not) is the way to go. This is not, as mentioned, a FPS. And in reality, medics couldn't really do much for you except patch you up temporarily until you got to a field hospital.

If you were seriously wounded, you weren't going to keep fighting. And minor wounds are already in the game--the ones that don't kill you where you bleed out a bit.

So I think case closed: medics don't need to be introduced. Shows how I'm getting to know the game! S!

Edited by sublimesw

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17 hours ago, sublimesw said:

Yeah, you know, after posting this and having played the game for about four months now, I am against introducing medics. I believe that modeling only major wounds (lethal or not) is the way to go. This is not, as mentioned, a FPS. And in reality, medics couldn't really do much for you except patch you up temporarily until you got to a field hospital.

If you were seriously wounded, you weren't going to keep fighting. And minor wounds are already in the game--the ones that don't kill you where you bleed out a bit.

So I think case closed: medics don't need to be introduced. Shows how I'm getting to know the game! S!

I can understand your opinion. I just can't agree, and saying case closed doesn't  'close the case' for those folks who still WANT to play support classes. We have multiple SMGs, multiple Rifles, and we're working on multiple LMGs for each faction. This game is great and supports almost every type of play except one: support. AS you said, it's NOT a FPS, but if you look at the play options available, that statement would be very disputable as far as play options go. Right now the only support options are to drive trucks, fly transport planes, sail transport ships (which are not used that often), play engineers (very limited supply) and build PPOs. This game could really use medics, construction and mechanics in play, which would draw players who prefer that kind of play. It may never happen, but the case will never be closed

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My thought is this. Before people decide to shut down any and all discussion of non-combat roles...try to remember that there are people who don't want to play the way that YOU do. it doesn't matter that this is a PVP combat game. It can be much more than that if we let it. Not everyone is here to rack up the biggest kill score. Some people just want to play a really good WWII game. And guess what? that includes NON-combat roles. I have seen it in other games...some folks LIKE playing engineers, and mechanics, and medics.  We are paying players, just as much as anyone else. We should have the same right to suggest that CRS consider adding such roles

QFT- It's really not about the impact that a medic class itself would have on the battle, but the global reality that expanding roles outside of warriors would be good for the game. In RL only a small percentage of soldiers actually see combat. Expanding roles within WWIIOL lends itself to creating more immersion and authenticity. This holds true for many of the logistics functions that could be programed into game play. If we are looking for authentic representation of a WWII experience, medics are a good first step.

What's good for the game is expanding the player base so that we can afford more developers to make the toys we know are missing. Be honest - How many times have players significant others commented on "Your always playing that dumb game and we never have any time together"? Adding additional roles for non-combat personnel could have a proportionate effect on 2nd accounts. Same could be said for individuals who may be too young or elderly to contribute to a effective combat role. The additional roles don't have to be as nurturing as a medic but need some sense of purpose that contributes to the war efforts such as engineers do in combat. If there is any doubt that subscribers would be drawn to these activities take a look at the success of the SIMS games which have virtually no goal other than to sustain their character.   

 

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On 12/4/2016 at 8:15 PM, jwilly said:

If killing the class I'm playing costs you points, I might choose to use that class as a special assault unit...charging directly at enemy snipers or LMGs so that they'd have to choose between killing me or ceasing fire. Or, I might charge across an open field to draw fire, while my associates watched for the sources of that enemy fire.

Of course, you wouldn't play that way. But the game doesn't have enough game managers 24/7/365 to constantly watch everywhere for griefing. CRS has said in the past that every griefing mechanism in the game, will be used until they code it out.

LOL- Why would someone spawn a medic to draw fire when they can spawn an infantry as a free account and actually shoot back? There currently isn't any penalty for killing anyone in game. Killing a medic would be no worse than shooting a para and we have no penalty for that?

 

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Medics and most non combat roles would be best served by intelligent AI that drives around or walks/runs around and does a 'job' for players freeing them to do things that are more fun/entertaining.

 

So you get shot in the leg, hit your medic button, and Otto the AI medic runs over to you and patches you up giving you a rescue instead of MIA/Dead. All the medic really is in most of these suggestions is a unit that provides you an advantage in 4 hours. Meaning, instead of a full 7 hour resupply ticket for MIA/DOA you get a 4 hour resupply ticket.

 

Aweomse i can see players lining up to play that support role ... Speaking of support roles just look at any game that has 'healers' and you'll also see they're the least played classes. People want to pew pew.

 

So instead of spending valuable developer resources trying to shoe horn in the world's first 'fun'/meaningful support role (basically impossible) spend those resources developing intelligent empowering AI that can be used to fill a much wider range of support roles. AI trucks you can have tow your gun to a spot. AI medics. AI resupply convoys. ALl visible all killable - bring some life to the game - via ai ;-).

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5 hours ago, madrebel said:

Medics and most non combat roles would be best served by intelligent AI that drives around or walks/runs around and does a 'job' for players freeing them to do things that are more fun/entertaining.

 

So you get shot in the leg, hit your medic button, and Otto the AI medic runs over to you and patches you up giving you a rescue instead of MIA/Dead. All the medic really is in most of these suggestions is a unit that provides you an advantage in 4 hours. Meaning, instead of a full 7 hour resupply ticket for MIA/DOA you get a 4 hour resupply ticket.

 

Aweomse i can see players lining up to play that support role ... Speaking of support roles just look at any game that has 'healers' and you'll also see they're the least played classes. People want to pew pew.

 

So instead of spending valuable developer resources trying to shoe horn in the world's first 'fun'/meaningful support role (basically impossible) spend those resources developing intelligent empowering AI that can be used to fill a much wider range of support roles. AI trucks you can have tow your gun to a spot. AI medics. AI resupply convoys. ALl visible all killable - bring some life to the game - via ai ;-).

I'm not trying to  give you crap. but I DO have to point out your first and biggest misconception: You are posting this in a thread that is created by the very people who DO want to play those support roles and ARE lining up to do so because we DOwant to do that. And it's not a situation where you're talking to people that have never played a support role before and are asking your opinion on it. The very fact that threads like this exist prove that, while support roles may be played by a smaller population, that that population DOES exist.

Yes, maybe most people do want to 'pew pew'. So what? Those who want to play support roles are paying customers too. What gives you the idea that YOU should be able to dictate to us how WE play? Guess what? To ME, and others like me,playing support IS "more fun and entertaining" than just running and gunning, I can go to any of a hundred different red versus blue run and gun games, and some even have medics. So why do I spend my time playing here? It's not the only WWII game in town, you know...

The reason? THIS game normally tries to be an actual semi-realistic WWII game, and tries to offer more than just run and gun gameplay. Heck, since the new PPOs have been available, I've played more Riflemen than I have used in all the years that I've played. Not many kills, but a heck of a lot of sandbags built and a tank ot two detreaded. I know that CRS  wants this to be more than an average FPO, and part of that is having a full range of WWII units eventually, which would include some sort of medics.

It's funny that you're not completely arguing against AI. Heck from what you're suggesting, it sounds like you think the game needs more bots. I admit I'm a little surprised Madrebel, since you've been around long enough to know that one of the only ideas in the game more unpopular than Medics is adding more bots.

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