captcrayon

Artillery

21 posts in this topic

Will Artillery ever be added to the game in the future? This game pretty much has everything except artillery, and i'm talking about the 105mm or the 150mm on both sides.  I feel it would be a crucial tool on the battlefield of this game that would fit so well and bring crucial support to targets that your forces are having a hard time dealing with. 

 

In my opinion the Artillery piece ( for both sides ) should somewhat act like so ( devs can change however they please).

- Artillery should be slow, slower then moving a AA gun, So artillery pieces would be forced to be pulled by trucks.  This forces team cooperation to operate this fierce weapons.

- Artillery should have long range, but slow rate of fire. This is how I would approach it.  The longer the range the artillery fires the somewhat faster the reload, but the closer the range of the artillery ( meaning how close it's aiming, how close the it has to fire) the longer the reload.  For long range a round every 9 to 12 seconds seconds or more, the closer 17 seconds.

-The rounds blast should be epic and do some good damage, but due to slow reload it shouldn't be to over powered

- This weapon is a true team based weapon.  team work is key to operate it.  To me Artillery users will have to use the map to coordinate artillery strikes.  People on the ground can coordinate artillery strikes just by marking them on the map.

- Artillery should have very weak armor, I mean very weak.  A few rounds to cripple an artillery piece so they are forced to keep long distant which adds more tactics to be used to wwII online.  Artillery ops is what I was getting at.  Also artillery should be very vulnerable to air power if not used correctly.

-Artillery can be deployed were armor can be deployed, which also helps it hitch a ride to get to places.

 

 

These are just some ideas to were it can be somewhat balanced and how it could work.. I feel like Artillery can be a unit that can bring a lot to this game, and it can be made effectively to were it wont be to OP.  Artillery CAN work in this game, hopefully it can be added in the future. Tell me what you all think or what could be added or modified.

Pros:

-Great team based weapon

- Long range support

-Brings much needed support to the battlefield

-Good offensive/ Defensive weapon

-Good fire power

Cons:

-Very slow

-Slow rate of fire

-very vulnerable, weak armor needs support ( protection )

-Needs team work to operate effectively ( Hitch a ride, guide in fire support on map, communication) .

 

 

 

 

Edited by captcrayon

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36 minutes ago, captcrayon said:

Will Artillery ever be added to the game in the future? This game pretty much has everything except artillery, and i'm talking about the 105mm or the 150mm on both sides.  I feel it would be a crucial tool on the battlefield of this game that would fit so well and bring crucial support to targets that your forces are having a hard time dealing with. 

 

In my opinion the Artillery piece ( for both sides ) should somewhat act like so ( devs can change however they please).

- Artillery should be slow, slower then moving a AA gun, So artillery pieces would be forced to be pulled by trucks.  This forces team cooperation to operate this fierce weapons.

- Artillery should have long range, but slow rate of fire. This is how I would approach it.  The longer the range the artillery fires the somewhat faster the reload, but the closer the range of the artillery ( meaning how close it's aiming, how close the it has to fire) the longer the reload.  For long range a round every 9 to 12 seconds seconds or more, the closer 17 seconds.  This is kind of backwards of RL - the longer range guns are generally the bigger calibre weapons, and thus have slower rates of fire.  If we stick to the smaller arty pieces (say the 105M 1934 Schneider (French) or 10.5cm leFH324(f)(German) (would be a good one to start with since 2/4 of the countries currently in game used it))  Had a rate of fire of 15 rounds per minute.  with a max range of just over 10Km.  

-The rounds blast should be epic and do some good damage, but due to slow reload it shouldn't be to over powered I spent 22 years in the US Army Field Artillery, Give me 3 players as guns and 1 observer and I can ensure that you will never want to spawn into game again.  With the above mentioned pieces a round coming in every 9 seconds will fairly effectively decimate an infantry spawn (if the rounds are modeled correctly).  With 3 guns that would be 1 every 3 seconds.... get 6 players together and it'd be spectacular......................    Obviously the more spawn points in town, the more guns would be needed

- This weapon is a true team based weapon.  team work is key to operate it.  To me Artillery users will have to use the map to coordinate artillery strikes.  People on the ground can coordinate artillery strikes just by marking them on the map.  Could work, though the rounds would have to become server tracked as otherwise the adjusting party wouldn't be able to accurately ID the impact point.  

- Artillery should have very weak armor, I mean very weak.  A few rounds to cripple an artillery piece so they are forced to keep long distant which adds more tactics to be used to wwII online.  Artillery ops is what I was getting at.  Also artillery should be very vulnerable to air power if not used correctly.  It would (and should) be highly vulnerable even when used correctly, especially the towed pieces which were abundant in WWII.  

-Artillery can be deployed were armor can be deployed, which also helps it hitch a ride to get to places.

 

 

These are just some ideas to were it can be somewhat balanced and how it could work.. I feel like Artillery can be a unit that can bring a lot to this game, and it can be made effectively to were it wont be to OP.  Artillery CAN work in this game, hopefully it can be added in the future. Tell me what you all think or what could be added or modified.

Pros:

-Great team based weapon

- Long range support

-Brings much needed support to the battlefield

-Good offensive/ Defensive weapon

-Good fire power

Cons:

-Very slow

-Slow rate of fire

-very vulnerable, weak armor needs support ( protection )

-Needs team work to operate effectively ( Hitch a ride, guide in fire support on map, communication) .

 

 

 

 

I put my main comments above in what will hopefully be orange.  While I'm all for Arty, and have been wanting it to get into game, it could be game breaking if done wrong.  Enough guns massing fires on a town would render it un-spawnable in a way that would make even the most epic current 'camps' seem light.  There is already a hue and cry from players when they get shot by someone they didn't see, I can only imagine what will happen if a player hits enter world then dies within seconds to something unseen repeatedly.  

 

Having said all that I'd love to see it in.  Artillery was one of the biggest killers on the battlefield (still is). 

THIS IS MY PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND DOES NOT REFLECT CRS OFFICIAL POLICY/DIRECTION/INTENT

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I've said back in the day that maybe artillery would be an "AI" that higher-command players could place and control from the map.  Players in the town (or in the field) could call for an artillery strike, the player who controls it would select the location on the map and fire a number of rounds (either pre-set or maybe they can choose how many rounds).  In game, the guns adjust then fire, but the rounds would only go so far before disappearing.  The game would calculate the approximate trajectory on where they'd come into town (or regular field) and the rounds would fall accordingly where the player selected.  

The guns should be able to be heard from a long distance so they might be able to be tracked down, while friendly players would get warned of nearby enemy units near their artillery pieces.  They could then be destroyed similarly to AI emplacements or FB buildings.

I know some people wouldn't like this idea as they'd much rather control the artillery themselves because that would be quite the good feeling to wipe out a whole bunch of infantry and vehicles.  Although they probably wouldn't know without people nearby telling them the results.  I just imagine with the amount of teamwork needed just to fire one gun that few players would want to dedicate themselves to sitting out in the middle of a field just waiting for coordinates from players in town, trying to figure out distance and direction, turning the gun the right way, then firing, only to miss 99% of the time.  They'll also be super vulnerable since even LESS players are going to want to sit in that field to guard them.

At least with the AI it'd free up players to actually attack town.  It may put more power in fewer players' hands, but it could be another perk of high rank.  Even if the player is in town and selects the area where troops are, chances are it might still take some time for the artillery rounds to fall.  It would still be a challenge to get rounds falling where you want at the right time.  But if Steam brings in a lot more players and there are plenty to spare, then sure, have them be player-controlled.  I'm not against it.

Would be interesting to see a higher level of destructible buildings then.  It's fun to see some holes in the buildings and such, but a heavy bombardment would be pretty bad for those poor buildings.

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I think people would really enjoy artillery. Perhaps the French Lorraine, which I believed carried a howitzer. There is also, of course, the American Priest and British 25-pounder artillery pieces. Only a few per unit would make it fun and give those forward base / rear area raiders something to do. Not to mention the wonders it would work when attacking. 

But yeah, there's some balancing to think about here. I'm really not an expert on that.

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18 hours ago, B2K said:

I put my main comments above in what will hopefully be orange.  While I'm all for Arty, and have been wanting it to get into game, it could be game breaking if done wrong.  Enough guns massing fires on a town would render it un-spawnable in a way that would make even the most epic current 'camps' seem light.  There is already a hue and cry from players when they get shot by someone they didn't see, I can only imagine what will happen if a player hits enter world then dies within seconds to something unseen repeatedly.  

 

Having said all that I'd love to see it in.  Artillery was one of the biggest killers on the battlefield (still is). 

THIS IS MY PERSONAL OPINION ONLY AND DOES NOT REFLECT CRS OFFICIAL POLICY/DIRECTION/INTENT

I agree completely.

It might Change the complete gamebalance...

First of all...ist simply not true that the reload times of Artillery has been slower than the reload time of ...lets say,  a tank, or a AT gun. At least not that much slower that it would Count. The 75mm or 105mm have been reloaded in several seconds. We are not talking about the heavy railway guns or shipcannons with 200mm and more...we are talking about Artillerie with 75-150 mm max.

And thats the Problem like B2K already said. With realistic reload times you need 2-3 guns to destroy a complete town and prevent any defensive Actions.

This might be realistic, but will it be fun for the Players? I like the realism in this game...and some Thing could be even more ralistic imo...but would i like more Artillery?

To be serious...im really not sure...partially yes, and on the other Hand...hmm...

We have the 50mm mortar already...and its not very useful imo...only in Special situations...but more heavy Arty?

If they implement it, it should be done VERY careful.

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Without friendly fire, I don't see the incentive to not spam artillery shells on a town. But with friendly fire, it's prone to abuse unless there is some kind of vote system which stops someone from spawning for a while that makes the temporary ban fairer.

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13 hours ago, delta1262 said:

Without friendly fire, I don't see the incentive to not spam artillery shells on a town. But with friendly fire, it's prone to abuse unless there is some kind of vote system which stops someone from spawning for a while that makes the temporary ban fairer.

It's things like that where I'd say only the higher ranks could control them.  And honestly, if there WAS friendly fire, it'd really limit how often they could be used.  Which I like.

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People already complain about being killed by stuff they cant see.  Imagine the outcry when 3 or 4 guns camp an AB from 2k? 

Even bigger mortars will suck in this game.  

 

We don't need it,  just a long range camping tool. 

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3 hours ago, rinzello said:

It's things like that where I'd say only the higher ranks could control them.  And honestly, if there WAS friendly fire, it'd really limit how often they could be used.  Which I like.

If ranks meant something in game I'd agree with you, however as is, if you stay around long enough eventually you will be max rank. 

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58 minutes ago, B2K said:

If ranks meant something in game I'd agree with you, however as is, if you stay around long enough eventually you will be max rank. 

True, but hopefully the type of people who will just carelessly bombard their own troops wouldn't be the type to stick around for months just to be able to do it.  They're probably only there for a month and only have a F2P account.

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1 hour ago, rinzello said:

True, but hopefully the type of people who will just carelessly bombard their own troops wouldn't be the type to stick around for months just to be able to do it.  They're probably only there for a month and only have a F2P account.

Some of the WORST players in this game are 10+ year vets LOL. 

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2 hours ago, Mosizlak said:

Some of the WORST players in this game are 10+ year vets LOL. 

Maybe they're getting old and they can't see the screen so well anymore... :P

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I think Artillery would be very cool to add to game but it could be very OVERPOWERED if allowed to be used too much.

Therefore, if added I would recommend some LIMITS to its use for example:

TIME LIMIT - only allow artillery to be used the first 10-20 minutes after AO is placed.  This would simiulate "softening up" of defense before an attack.  It would be realistic.  Attacker would not bomb a town with his own people in the town.  Since, this game has no friendly fire in it we should just add a time limit to simulate this concept.

 

Edited by krazydog
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5 minutes ago, krazydog said:

I think Artillery would be very cool to add to game but it could be very OVERPOWERED if allowed to be used too much.

Therefore, if added I would recommend some LIMITS to its use for example:

TIME LIMIT - only allow artillery to be used the first 15-20 minutes after AO is placed.  This would simiulate "softening up" of defense before an attack.  It would be realistic.  Attacker would not bomb a town with his own people in the town.  Since, this game has no friendly fire in it we should just add a time limit to simulate this concept.

 

 

That's actually a good idea. Limit the time it can be used and limit the number of guns that can be used. 

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IMO needs to be an off map 'call in' tied to some sort of currency system and needs to also be tied to an AI PPO that again is tied to some currency system and placed by players. from there the frequency, accuracy, and lethality can all be tuned.

 

otherwise it will just be spammed and end up sucking the life out of the infantry game.

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What about the British 3-inch, American 81mm, or German 8cm mortars? These would be cool . . . and not as manpower-intensive.

Edited by sublimesw

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The smaller caliber artillery wouldn't be a game changer. From range Its not easy to get kills with the larger guns we have now unless you have a bead on the ab, and that doesn't happen all that much. The guns are very vulnerable, and their numbers could simply be limited. It might be interesting to provide a couple of arty units per side which could be moved by HC where they think best. Then they wouldn't be a part of most engagements, but would add something different to some fights, allowing their effect to be gaged with a certain caution.

The game development that might allow arty to be fully implemented would be moving from preset city-bound spawns to more broadly spaced, player placed spawns furnished with defensive ppos. If players are spawning from widespread, and varying locations furnished with good defensive works, they wouldn't present as concentrated and easy a target.

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just make them easy to see (a huge smoke cloud hanging around after they fire) so Air support can find them easily and you more or less have it balanced

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i like the idea of arty in the game, but suggest somewaht realistic friendly fire exclusion zones based on caliber, say 400m or more. If you have an overrun situation and can get HC approval for "danger close," then allow the rounds to kill any friendlies within the blast radius.

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