rinzello

Thicker Bushes (No jokes)

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I know this might change a big part of how people play now, but I'd like to see bushes that aren't so easy to pass through.  At least for infantry.  In real life when I run into a wall of bushes, it slows me down quite a bit.  What if it worked the same in this game?  What if you were better off staying OUT of the bushes and had to run where people could see you?

Now, I'm sure it'd be easy enough to enter a bush if you need to hide or crawl into position to fire from.  But I'm not sure I like the idea of troops sprinting at full speed through hedgerows and approaching unseen right next to an AB.  We might as well be allowed to somehow tunnel underground and pop up right inside a CP! :P

I just think that you should have to pay for staying unseen when moving through the bushes.  Maybe you're moving at a slow walking speed.  Or maybe have anything more than a crawl at least make a rustling noise or some sort of movement of the bush itself.  I know the moving bush probably won't happen for a long while if at all.

 

Thoughts?

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Yeah, I agree that nobody should be able to sprint through bushes, or "hide" an ATG in them either, especially the humpy bush clusters. Gamey/

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I'm not AS upset about hiding in the bushes, since normally it's very difficult to see out of them for them as well.  But I think it'd cut down on the whole stealthy 2 EI taking over a town because no one can find them in the bushes thing.

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Tanks would just roll over them anyhow, but trucks and ATGs should have a harder time.  If a truck is going through at full speed then it should take a good dip to it's speed, but maybe if it's going slow it might get stopped at first.  

I don't mind units hiding while stationary, but it shouldn't be just as easy to move through the bushes as it is flat ground.

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supported 1000%

 

infantry should be able to hide using bushes to break LoS. sprinting through them isn't something that can be done IRL so shouldn't be doable in game either. the speedtree library allows you to assign colliders to stems/trunks. we have these already with the trees, we should also have these with the shrubs.

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The infantry game's offensive/defensive balance depends at present on "bush tunnels" as routes across what otherwise would be killing fields. 

It's perfectly fine to argue that something is unrealistic...I've certainly done my share...but it's not actually helpful to suggest a change that would break a key design-balance.

The right way to approach such an issue is to suggest two changes...the realism fix you think is needed, and some other change that will fully restore the design-balance that otherwise would be broken.

I don't know what design options other than bush tunnels would be practical to allow attacking infantry to approach a town with limited spottability. CRS looked at fields of tall grass/crops before...the poly-count to do it with visual realism was way too high. One approach would be to add lots more buildings around the edges of towns, with the spacing gradually opening up with distance. That however would have the effect of making towns bigger, which with low population might make defense impossible.

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2 hours ago, jwilly said:

The infantry game's offensive/defensive balance depends at present on "bush tunnels" as routes across what otherwise would be killing fields. 

It's perfectly fine to argue that something is unrealistic...I've certainly done my share...but it's not actually helpful to suggest a change that would break a key design-balance.

The right way to approach such an issue is to suggest two changes...the realism fix you think is needed, and some other change that will fully restore the design-balance that otherwise would be broken.

I don't know what design options other than bush tunnels would be practical to allow attacking infantry to approach a town with limited spottability. CRS looked at fields of tall grass/crops before...the poly-count to do it with visual realism was way too high. One approach would be to add lots more buildings around the edges of towns, with the spacing gradually opening up with distance. That however would have the effect of making towns bigger, which with low population might make defense impossible.

I understand that and agree, but it could also come down to a tactic change.  Surely this would all be a lot better with a higher population in the server, but it could be a bit more interesting if you actually had to fight your way into town.  I know that's a funny idea in a war game, but it could work! :P

I do like the idea of having some more buildings on the outskirts of town, such as farm buildings or other things that could be hidden behind.  Perhaps a few more of those hills could be added as well.  I don't want anything that'd just make everyone lag, but we could add something.  Some towns already have a ton of bushes that makes spotting EI basically impossible.

Let's not forget that I'm not saying that bushes should be completely impassable barriers.  I just don't think you should be able to sprint 1 km through bushes while guards are watching your way and see nothing.  Maybe with the introduction of more buildable items, such as sandbags, it'll be easier to get close, set up a defensive line, then assault from there.  Or maybe if tanks weren't seen much in smaller towns then a half-track full of soldiers could pull up somewhat close and drop a bunch of troops on the doorstep.

Perhaps the mortar players will have their day and occasionally we'll be forced to just smoke a field and run for it.  I don't know how often in the war a town was attacked without the defenders being aware until one of their vital buildings was captured.  Maybe if it was easier to see EI coming then we wouldn't need as many AI MG nests.

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Why wouldn't infantry be able to approach town jwilly?

 

Just because they cant run through bushes doesn't prevent them from running adjacent to them. 

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12 hours ago, madrebel said:

Why wouldn't infantry be able to approach town jwilly?

 

Just because they cant run through bushes doesn't prevent them from running adjacent to them. 

I was thinking this as well.  I could see in towns where there are barely any bushes, but then we'd be forced to... *gasp* ...use tactics! :P

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I wold be glad to see EI forced to not sprint through the bushes.

Walking is OK, but have you ever sprinted or jogged through brush? I did once... running from the cops at an "in the woods firepit where we may or may not have taken acid and or smoked the weed while drinking underage".

 

I got torn up pretty badly, and cut. It's a wonder I didn't have an eye poked out, too. Either way, it's not the kind of thing I see adult soldiers doing with full gear packs on, or ATG crews pushing their guns through.

 

Tanks should have no real difficulty flattening brush, as they were quite able to flatten small trees. It was the hedgerows that tied them up... Big rows of piled stone and dirt from centuries of keeping fields weed/stone/crud free. 

 

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when have you walked through a bush IRL? underbrush can often have a path through it that can be walked but even in those situations you're negotiating a path around the main stalks. you can't walk 'through' bushes, brush, etc.

 

if the collider is added to the main stalk of all the taller bushes that can easily be walked through now those stalks also become bullet catchers. this gives infantry some cover - albeit somewhat random and unreliable. point is you won't just be able to spray the bushline with MG fire and count on easy kills. enough bushes with low angles to the shooter and those stalks will become a type of wall.

 

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Sprintable or not:

Sound should also be added! Infantry sprinting near/inside bushes should make a lot of noise of crackling branches :)

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9 hours ago, wockawocka said:

Sprintable or not:

Sound should also be added! Infantry sprinting near/inside bushes should make a lot of noise of crackling branches :)

I would agree with more noise for bushes but I'd like more noise in general.  I know they have some ambient noise but it seems really easy to pick up on just about anything you're close enough to hear.

I'd say that the faster you go the more nouse you make, but crawling should make next to no noise.  You should be able to be sneaky still, I just don't want people rushing through undetected.

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