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Flags removal already underdevelopment and no discussion or information?

124 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, XOOM said:

No one will be forcing people to drive up, and although it may not be an every day occurrence, maybe that's something they want to do to take a break from the norm and still help contribute?

If you wish to receive constructive and professional responses you need to reciprocate that. It's abundantly clear that you're skeptical and not approving of all of this, and while the forums are a place to share your thoughts I think this above post was probably the least tasteful I've ever read of yours.

Since I've started posting in the past two weeks, my thoughts have garnered more thumbs up than anyone else.  If anything, it's abundantly clear that I'm not the only one who has his share of skepticism.  Don't forget, I'm still supporting you with my subscription despite the fact that I'm not playing and haven't in almost a year.  

 

If the above post was the least tasteful you've ever read of mine, then I'm not doing too bad considering some of the bad posts this forum has had over the years.  Still, in the spirit of Christmas, I apologize for the harsh tone.  You know I love you guys!

 

It's just, out of all the prospects of 1.36, this one seems the most silly to me.  I think going back to manual restocking at the game's lowest pop in its history (your words) is illogical.  No one will be forced to do it... until one side starts to do it consistently, thereby creating a situation where the other side must improvise and adapt (i.e. start doing manual restocking themselves) or lose.  

 

Merry Christmas, Matt.  Thanks for your contributions to another year of WWII's continued existence. S! 

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1 hour ago, monsjoex said:

Actually this would help the underpopulated side because these "stored" man-hours probably are not worth an equal amount of hours on the frontline.
 

I get what you're saying, but I'm not referring to instantaneous pop imbalance (for example, as it shifts throughout the day).  I'm referring to average pop imbalance over longer terms, like over the course of a campaign.  

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3 hours ago, capco said:

.  My time will be spent on actually creating content, not Euro Truck Simulator: 1942 AFVs Edition.

Is this going to be a job left for the deplorables?  Because if I see guys driving around backline who could actually make a difference on the front (jsilec, lob12, etc) I'm going to lose my [censored].  The game pop is just too low to have any portion of the PB doing overstocking missions.  The only side with the man-hours to do it is going to be the more generally overpop side.  That means that once one side has momentum and people on the other side stop logging in, you only further cement the Cycle of Suck because the overpop side is essentially able to "store" man-hours of work until it is most opportunistic for them to use that supply.  

Pre-flag one of the major aspects of the game was rear->front resupply (and yes by *gasp* 'major' names as well).  Another (and a favorite of mine) was running missions to pop said columns.  You seem to have forgotten that your idea of 'content' isn't everyones.

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Just now, B2K said:

Pre-flag one of the major aspects of the game was rear->front resupply (and yes by *gasp* 'major' names as well).  Another (and a favorite of mine) was running missions to pop said columns.

I know.  I was there.  It was also a completely different game with a completely different population level.  Both sides could afford to sustain frontline action and backline resupply efforts.  Do you really think that's possible today?  I have no access to the numbers, you all do.  If you think it's sustainable, I'll take your word for it.  

 

I do agree though.  Counter-columns were pretty fun!  

I also remember driving to Liege in a Matty from god knows where (maybe Leuven) for what felt like hours, only to get raped by a Stuka horde from Verviers just outside of Liege.  That wasn't very fun though lol.  

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1 hour ago, capco said:

Since I've started posting in the past two weeks, my thoughts have garnered more thumbs up than anyone else.  If anything, it's abundantly clear that I'm not the only one who has his share of skepticism.  Don't forget, I'm still supporting you with my subscription despite the fact that I'm not playing and haven't in almost a year.  

 

If the above post was the least tasteful you've ever read of mine, then I'm not doing too bad considering some of the bad posts this forum has had over the years.  Still, in the spirit of Christmas, I apologize for the harsh tone.  You know I love you guys!

 

It's just, out of all the prospects of 1.36, this one seems the most silly to me.  I think going back to manual restocking at the game's lowest pop in its history (your words) is illogical.  No one will be forced to do it... until one side starts to do it consistently, thereby creating a situation where the other side must improvise and adapt (i.e. start doing manual restocking themselves) or lose.  

 

Merry Christmas, Matt.  Thanks for your contributions to another year of WWII's continued existence. S! 

Imo partially there is an effect where making game decisions based on lowpop causes the game to be more lowpop.
I mean how many game decisions did CRS make to actively increase highpop? If you always focus on the negative (lowpop) then you lose the potential you have in the positive (highpop). 

For example the talk is always about 1 AO or 2 AO in lowpop. Not about whether we should have more AO's in highpop.
Sure you shouldn't have the game completely breakdown but as far as I know the game has already been completely broken in tz3 for many many years. With only moments of balance in between.  

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11 minutes ago, monsjoex said:

Imo partially there is an effect where making game decisions based on lowpop causes the game to be more lowpop.
I mean how many game decisions did CRS make to actively increase highpop? If you always focus on the negative (lowpop) then you lose the potential you have in the positive (highpop). 

For example the talk is always about 1 AO or 2 AO in lowpop. Not about whether we should have more AO's in highpop.
Sure you shouldn't have the game completely breakdown but as far as I know the game has already been completely broken in tz3 for many many years. With only moments of balance in between.  

I'm not referring to TZ3, I'm referring to cumulative side imbalance.  But I still see your point.  And it ties into what I've been saying:  moving forward in this direction pretty much equates to making the game more conducive to higher populations before those higher populations arrive, in the hope that higher populations not only do arrive, but remain.  It's hope-based.  

All we can do is hope.  I think that's risky, and it scares the heck out of me.  But if it works... good things will follow on the strategic front.  I know they will.  

Edited by capco

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19 minutes ago, capco said:

I'm not referring to TZ3, I'm referring to cumulative side imbalance.  But I still see your point.  And it ties into what I've been saying:  moving forward in this direction pretty much equates to making the game more conducive to higher populations before those higher populations arrive, in the hope that higher populations not only do arrive, but remain.  It's hope-based.  

All we can do is hope.  I think that's risky, and it scares the heck out of me.  But if it works... good things will follow on the strategic front.  I know they will.  

Are the changes really that big though in terms of general game play? How much do you notice from the brigade game if you don't pay attention to it? Maybe the flow of towns falling will differ  (not weird set ups where allied cap chilly causing axis to move east from laon). But the inner game still remains the same. You shoot stuff and cap stuff on a big map with a lot of different units. 

I mean the game survived 8 minute timer ML fru's... if it can survive that then it can surive anything lol.

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Bring back DOC he would stop this rot.

 

A unique selling proposition or otherwise known as USP (unique selling point), is a factor that a business has that makes it different and or better than others out there. It makes a business stand out from the rest in a market.[

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26 minutes ago, actonman said:

Bring back DOC he would stop this rot.

 

A unique selling proposition or otherwise known as USP (unique selling point), is a factor that a business has that makes it different and or better than others out there. It makes a business stand out from the rest in a market.[

We have plenty of these, a huge list in fact. Hopefully you've read Victarus's full postings and our commentary. We are making these changes because we have to, in order to stabilize things and recalibrate. From there we'll explore some more options.

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32 minutes ago, actonman said:

Bring back DOC he would stop this rot.

 

A unique selling proposition or otherwise known as USP (unique selling point), is a factor that a business has that makes it different and or better than others out there. It makes a business stand out from the rest in a market.[

Ive yet to hear the first newbie say oh wow i love the strategic brigade moving system.

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4 hours ago, XOOM said:

No one will be forcing people to drive up, and although it may not be an every day occurrence, maybe that's something they want to do to take a break from the norm and still help contribute?

If you wish to receive constructive and professional responses you need to reciprocate that. It's abundantly clear that you're skeptical and not approving of all of this, and while the forums are a place to share your thoughts I think this above post was probably the least tasteful I've ever read of yours.

XOOM and anyone else. If I was offensive in what I said, I apologize. it was unintentional. I DO support the game and all the new development, even if I have reservations about what the end results will be sometimes.

I really should apologise for my comment about overstocking. While it may not be something I would enjoy doing, I really should remember that everyone plays differently, and that mouthing off about my personal dislikes doesn't really do anything but detract from a reasonable and friendly discussion.

S!

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Other things that will have to be looked at before 1.36 implementation are:

A.  Spawnlists

B.  Resupply timer

C.  Overstock rate

I'm hoping that the Rats don't give any credibility to anyone who says the current spawn lists are too big and/or need to be reduced.  Utter rubbish.  In the past the spawn lists were quite large in order to accommodate battles in EVERY town.  Overstock rates were unlimited pre-TO&E's.  There might have to be a cap on overstocking in the beginning, but it needs to be much larger than it currently is if you want people to actively participate in overstocking.  The overstock rate can be increased as the population increases.  The current resupply timer needs to be re-looked and made faster; more like six hours to completely restock a town.  This will not only allow for overstocking but allow for battles in all time-zones.

One of the major disadvantages for the Allies in the early tiers is the slow speed of their heavy tanks such as the Char and the Mattie.  One way to overcome this may be to have FB's up to front line towns from their adjacent and rear area towns.

I personally don't know how to overcome the other Allied disadvantage pre-TO&E's; which towns are French and which towns are British.  For those who haven't played the game pre-TOE's, this problem led to some serious game-play issues for the Allies and "gaming" the game by the Axis.  I only know that this also has to be corrected before 1.36 is brought back.  Hopefully the Rats are looking at ways to do this.

VR

Edited by csm308
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3 hours ago, csm308 said:

Other things that will have to be looked at before 1.36 implementation are:

A.  Spawnlists

B.  Resupply timer

C.  Overstock rate

I'm hoping that the Rats don't give any credibility to anyone who says the current spawn lists are too big and/or need to be reduced.  Utter rubbish.  In the past the spawn lists were quite large in order to accommodate battles in EVERY town.  Overstock rates were unlimited pre-TO&E's.  There might have to be a cap on overstocking in the beginning, but it needs to be much larger than it currently is if you want people to actively participate in overstocking.  The overstock rate can be increased as the population increases.  The current resupply timer needs to be re-looked and made faster; more like six hours to completely restock a town.  This will not only allow for overstocking but allow for battles in all time-zones.

One of the major disadvantages for the Allies in the early tiers is the slow speed of their heavy tanks such as the Char and the Mattie.  One way to overcome this may be to have FB's up to front line towns from their adjacent and rear area towns.

I personally don't know how to overcome the other Allied disadvantage pre-TO&E's; which towns are French and which towns are British.  For those who haven't played the game pre-TOE's, this problem led to some serious game-play issues for the Allies and "gaming" the game by the Axis.  I only know that this also has to be corrected before 1.36 is brought back.  Hopefully the Rats are looking at ways to do this.

VR

CRS indicated they will solve this issue. Also not to forget pre-toe we had two systems: 1. No flags at all - allied only suffered from british players/squads not playing french and vice versa. 2. Brigades but no TOE - this was quite bad for allied. Flags could be moved around by thd HC but these flags would open up supply from the town. So 2 flags in 1 town still meant same supply. The brit flags couldnt move into french towns causing cut off situations. Really bad and we wont have that anymore since the flags arent moving.

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@B2K

If there is one thing oversupply won't do is bring players... People don't want to drive from one place to another doing nothing.

A command for HC to Oversupply a brigade every 24h or so would be more tactical and effective.

This just seems like a step backwards same has infantry FRUs, for years we had lost Ant Trails and Large groups of infantry attacking, Infantry FRUs brought them back and add a new amazing Gameplay to ML's, there were a ton of missions, with FRUs and large groups of players.. Maybe I'm playing at bad timezones but I haven't seen any large infantry groupings like Inf FRU brought.

 

@monsjoex

Every great battle that has happen from 2006?... until today can be rooted in Flags. I know all my great battles & experiences all happen because of flags.. I do not look for the day that at the start of an attack of town with my PZ IVG I will always be facing a ton of OP S76.(or sitty PZ IVG same goes)

 

 

Edited by pbveteran

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4 hours ago, monsjoex said:

CRS indicated they will solve this issue. Also not to forget pre-toe we had two systems: 1. No flags at all - allied only suffered from british players/squads not playing french and vice versa. 2. Brigades but no TOE - this was quite bad for allied. Flags could be moved around by thd HC but these flags would open up supply from the town. So 2 flags in 1 town still meant same supply. The brit flags couldnt move into french towns causing cut off situations. Really bad and we wont have that anymore since the flags arent moving.

I don't think you are thinking this through.

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On 12/19/2016 at 9:40 AM, dre21 said:

Flags can stay . It's just silly that a HC commander needs to be online to set and change AOs or move flags. There are enough long time players online night after night that are not in HC but have enough knowledge about the game . 

All that needs to be implemented is a vote system let's say Anhee is an AO and it goes nowhere . The 3 highest ranking players that have been on that AO get the menu of  pull AO ,keep AO up and they vote . Done . 

Same with setting a new AO system finds 3 highest ranking players online , they get asked via a menu , new AO needs to be set up , player c ,x ,z you are the highest ranking on map here are ur options , a chat window pops up were only these 3 can communicate a decision is made and new AO gets set.

Same goes with a Brigade that needs to be moved away or into a town , 3 highest get the menu vote and it goes into effect. 

No need to reinvent the game again. 

Keep it simple not fork it up. 

This is something I've been for for a long time, or even having to 'rank up' to become HC through dedicated experience and support.

 

Alas, as I understand it CRS is looking to junk the whole system because of the drastic things that happen with HC mismatches or more likely no HC on.

 

Any system we do come up, town based or other, has to consider the man-hours and motivations of people to want to do it.

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On 12/19/2016 at 5:43 PM, Pittpete said:

There is no way CRS can prepare this game for Steam in its current form. 

The HC flag moving system is a failure, no matter how many F2P know it alls come crawling out of the woodwork.

There are a handful of players complaining about town based supply because they will no longer be able to control the player base just because they filled out an online form.

You want to control, earn the respect of your playerbase.  Lead by example and players will follow and go where you need them. 

I think some of you guys are selfish and scared trying to hold on to this failed system

 

Hope that mischaracterization of HC guys doesn't include me.

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On 12/19/2016 at 7:49 PM, Mosizlak said:

Yup. 

We capped Sedan today, and 5 flags routed to a pocket instead of safely falling back.  Just a stupid system and it needs to be killed as quickly as they can do it. 

That was a logic rule problem which could have been fixed with one simple damn .fallback command being coded, and we could not get it.

 

Some of the 'bad' or 'hardcore' or imagineering or UI problems made the thing 10x as worse to manage and control.  That's why the constant drumbeat for game tool improvement that never came, along with a very hard push on the Allied side at least for squad liaisons and coded reserve officers.

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18 hours ago, monsjoex said:

Are the changes really that big though in terms of general game play? How much do you notice from the brigade game if you don't pay attention to it? Maybe the flow of towns falling will differ  (not weird set ups where allied cap chilly causing axis to move east from laon). But the inner game still remains the same. You shoot stuff and cap stuff on a big map with a lot of different units. 

I mean the game survived 8 minute timer ML fru's... if it can survive that then it can surive anything lol.

Honestly, I don't play this game to shoot and kill stuff. I play because I can make contributions towards an end goal (winning the campaign) while shooting and killing stuff. There are so many games that offer better FPS gaming, but none that provide the unique experience found here. 

Like b2k said, the map will eventually get stale with the towns being equipped the same way every campaign. People won't realize it for a couple campaigns though.

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10 hours ago, pbveteran said:

@B2K

If there is one thing oversupply won't do is bring players... People don't want to drive from one place to another doing nothing.

A command for HC to Oversupply a brigade every 24h or so would be more tactical and effective.

This just seems like a step backwards same has infantry FRUs, for years we had lost Ant Trails and Large groups of infantry attacking, Infantry FRUs brought them back and add a new amazing Gameplay to ML's, there were a ton of missions, with FRUs and large groups of players.. Maybe I'm playing at bad timezones but I haven't seen any large infantry groupings like Inf FRU brought.

 

@monsjoex

Every great battle that has happen from 2006?... until today can be rooted in Flags. I know all my great battles & experiences all happen because of flags.. I do not look for the day that at the start of an attack of town with my PZ IVG I will always be facing a ton of OP S76.(or sitty PZ IVG same goes)

 

 

I honestly dont see how flags play a role in most fights. The fighting is still people organizing stuff. The flag stuff just makes the enemy not have supply.. or have loads of supply.

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18 minutes ago, monsjoex said:

I honestly dont see how flags play a role in most fights. The fighting is still people organizing stuff. The flag stuff just makes the enemy not have supply.. or have loads of supply.

It makes each battle more unique than having the same lists in the same towns every map.

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6 hours ago, capco said:

It makes each battle more unique than having the same lists in the same towns every map.

We usually have unlimited supply compared to the attrition rate. Wouldnt say thats really unique.

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Just now, monsjoex said:

We usually have unlimited supply compared to the attrition rate. Wouldnt say thats really unique.

FMS is eating supply like crazy.  I'm not sure how you can say that.

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CRS has gone above and beyond to communicate about the 1.36's implementation, particularly the justifications and how the current system simply is causing the game to break down when there is a lack of High Command officers are online.

We are repeating an entire discussion we had months ago, and now it is becoming sour and unproductive.

It is noted that there are folks who support this, and those who are skeptical or do not wish for things to change.

We are aware of the magnitude of these changes and have been carefully considering (and crafting) the design to learn from past and present lessons. Our solution will not be perfect, and certainly it will require more attention upon the initial roll out.

Hopefully you have been able to understand the difficult position the Rats are in and the necessity to make a stand to clamp any potential bleeding or game breaking scenarios.

Strategy will continue to exist, and the sincere burden placed on the majority of players and certainly our High Command officers will be relieved. Their focus will be redeployed towards cultivating outstanding game play and community building, the core of our success.

This thread will now be closed but remain available for others to read should they choose.

Additional threads pertaining to 1.36 should be focused and constructive so that we may have a strong communication and improve on things. We're now beyond the point of hanging onto what is currently, because it will change in accordance with our outlined justifications to which the majority of our community appears to acknowledge as reality.

The Rats will continue to have an ear close to the deck and be willing to listen to constructive feedback. Complaints without solutions result into non-starters when it comes to problem solving, therefore it is highly recommended for your feedback to be considered that you indeed provide solutions, REAL ones to the best of your ability, and be willing to work with CRS towards it.

I hope this is coming across as not a deterrent to have anymore discussion about it, but it is certainly time to refactor how future discussions occur.

Thank you to all of you participating in this discussion and providing legitimate options moving forward. 

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