Jump to content
Welcome to the virtual battlefield, Guest!

World War II Online is a Massively Multiplayer Online First Person Shooter based in Western Europe between 1939 and 1943. Through land, sea, and air combat using a ultra-realistic game engine, combined with a strategic layer, in the largest game world ever created - We offer the best WWII simulation experience around.

pbveteran

Flags removal already underdevelopment and no discussion or information?

Recommended Posts

david01
On 12/20/2016 at 0:11 AM, VICTARUS said:

While I definitely like the idea, there are also some very real concerns about how things will actually play out in practice. Could a side be permanently stuck on defensive mode because they can't pry enough people away from where there's obvious action (i.e., where the enemy-placed AOs are)? When the population is low will downtime between attacks cause a feedback loop where players just log in, see there are no AOs, then leave? Etc.

That will be a problem, but defensive mode already is a problem as there are frequently times when all AOs will be placed but there won't be any population on them. I think it will be a better situation though because the players won't be fed false information like now, they won't see any AOs placed and be able to do something about it instead of spawning at an AO, hearing crickets and then nagging HC to make changes. The HC online won't get blamed for the AOs if they're not active. If there's a way you guys need to log what a player does when they first get on, since the introduction of the active battles tab a lot of players could be clicking on the biggest missions and not really paying attention to the AOs on the theater map.

 

For lowpop you guys could add some more conditions, say if your AO threshold is >30 players near a town normally you could replace that when faction population is <60, and instead have the system set an AO on the enemy town with the highest % of friendly players there. That way lowpop always gets an AO, and gets it without having to coordinate nearly all of their population to one location. This means that if the entire faction was sitting on defense during lowpop a few guys could end up getting their own AO, which is strange and might make the highpop players jealous but it's actually what's needed during lowpop situations where there isn't a lot of organization or manpower.

Edited by david01

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
rule303
15 hours ago, XOOM said:

But we want it around for the right reasons, and that comes down to the HC serving with and for the player base. 

Unless you remove AOs, or make them player suggested and voted upon, I can't see that being possible. The HC are the leaders, how are they supposed to serve what the playerbase wants, when the goal of the playerbase isn't to win but simply shoot things? Most of the time, the two are at odds with one another, because a purely action based player will want to always be on the defensive because they can spawn and instantly be in the midst of a chaotic battle. Attacking requires people to setup, run FMS's, play like ninjas, probe weak points of the line and think of more than just spawning and shooting everything. For most people, it isn't really fun, but it's done because it's necessary to actually win the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
leanderj
13 hours ago, capco said:

I agree it's fun as well.  But the fallback system was never good for the game.  Brigades in real life would never fall back into a pocket when they had an avenue of retreat opened, as I'm sure was the case in Sedan the other night.  

That problem could have been easily fixed though.  Introducing a text command to set fallbacks would do wonders for the movable brigade system.  I mean I could log in 3 minutes at a time, twice a day, and be able to prevent the majority of cutoffs just by setting fallbacks with a few commands like .fallback 13edble LeChesne.  In the current system, it would take me hours to accomplish the same thing because each brigade has to be manually moved to set its fallback, not to mention it leaves weaknesses in the front. 

It wouldn't even get in the way of what the current MOIC is doing.  They could stack flags to their hearts content (bad for fallbacks/cutoffs but good if you want to be a lazy MOIC), and even at times with no HCs, the first layer of fallbacks would probably be enough to keep lowpop from snowballing into an avalanche each night.  

Oh well.  Let's see what the future brings.

No brigades wouldnt fall back into a pocket but where trapped inside them. So dont think of brigades falling back, but rather that the army cut off the retreat.. and thus pocketed them. Falaise pocket so to say if you want to compare it to real life ;) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quincannon

OK, and this is not to say one way is better or not.

I have seen countless towns fall in 20 minutes and never get recapped by a side. Because of this, I have issues understanding how the "Assigned towns" system works or ever would work. Once your squad's town is gone, what then? Ihave to admit that the idea of being assigned to a particular brigade sounds interesting, but all too often certain groups aren't even in the fighting at a particular time, and if your brigade were to get routed, what then?

And nothing that has been said reallly explains how anyone is going to get squads to cooperate, short of the HC  retaining strategic control over AOs. If AOs become open... I can see squad differences causing chaos. Why should one squad do what another one says?  And what about non-squad players? (Believe me, with Steam, we will have a TON of them. You can't simply force people join squads and follow their lead before they even know how the game works; many need a chance to enjoy a game for a bit before they are willing to commit to a group.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
cavalier

In the past I was a very active HC officer and spent more than my fair share of time as map OIC during shift 3. I really liked Brigades and thought they added a lot to the game. They added extra depth and interest to a campaign.

BUT

I have come to the conclusion that it is a good move for the Rats to go back to town based supply. To the average player I think Brigades are a distraction that does not add to game play. It also makes the game less fun for many when errors by the HC or a lack of HC lead to a map route. Nother thing it does is distract a percentage of the games natural leaders to spend their time focused on the map rather than tactically coordinating the player base.

I will miss that fantastic layer of additional depth provided by Brigade movement but I think it is better for WWIIOL for it to go.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
bmw
19 hours ago, csm308 said:

That may be how the AHC worked prior to TO&E's ( I don't really know), but that is not how the GHC worked.  I was a GHC officer long before TO&E's and the OKW.  You didn't just "join" the GHC you had to apply and then be "invited" to join.  Your squad officers had to agree to become GHC officers and subordinate their squads to the needs and direction of the GHC and the CINC.  Your squad was assigned to a Kampfgruppe within a Division, which were part of an Armeekorps/Panzerkorps, which were part of an Armee, which were a part of a Heersgruppe/Armeegruppe.  Divisions were assigned frontages on the frontline and your were expected/required to defend that area whenever it was attacked.  The GHC assigned avenues of attack and your squad was expected/required to support those attacks, always looking to changed to defense if your assigned divisional frontline was attacked by the Allies. 

If your squad didn't cooperate, your squad and its officers could be booted out of the GHC (and some were).  There were very few squads that weren't in the GHC.  One of the notable exceptions was Sturmgrenadier but even they eventually joined the GHC.  I was their Divisional CO at the time they did join the GHC.

The GHC was highly organized and had highly motivated squads as its members.  GHC officers spent virtually all of their time organizing attacks, organizing defenses, and organizing resupply.  Strategic thinking was left up to the Heersgruppe and higher types.

VR

 

Yup that's the way it was.  To use the term "loosly" and affectionately Getting in to the "good ole boys club" was actually an honor.  You went thru upper command for approval and had to have recommendations of officers already in HC.  I remember the Sunday meetings where one of the topics every week was inductions and promotions of officers.  Also we had so many players back then All branches were assigned to certain areas of the map as their designated AO.  North, Certral & South.  If nothing was happening in your AO you shifted to another AO until you were instructed or action happened in your AO and shifted back.

Those were the good old days and a LOT of fun back then.  We need to get back to that format.

Edited by bmw
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quincannon
40 minutes ago, cavalier said:

 Nother thing it does is distract a percentage of the games natural leaders to spend their time focused on the map rather than tactically coordinating the player base.

 

Do not  count on the change to town based supply meaning that HC officres will be more active in the field. As a matter of fact it is more likely to have the opposite effect. Remember that right now, a number of HC players spend more time in game because they are afraid that if they are not on, that they will hurt their side. They spend a lot of time making sure that someone is on the map. Once this urgent need is removed, it will remove that I MUST be on mindset of some HC. Those who prioritized logging in to make sure the map was covered may well log in a lot less once we go to town supply because they know that their presence in game is not as critical.

I'm not saying HC won't matter. I hope it will. But to expect that HC players will log in more now that they will be needed less isn't a reasonable expectation. Heck, I would not be surprised if HC membership doesn't drop. In addition, if people do decide that they want to retire, I don't see why they would then decide to start leading in game, as they will likely want to enjoy a period of no responsibility at all.

Squad leadership is not likely to be affected at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
maxios

Anyone have a map of how the zones looked for each brigade/division? I know there was such a map before, long time ago, would be nice to have a look at it again :).

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
csm308
59 minutes ago, Quincannon said:

Do not  count on the change to town based supply meaning that HC officres will be more active in the field. As a matter of fact it is more likely to have the opposite effect. Remember that right now, a number of HC players spend more time in game because they are afraid that if they are not on, that they will hurt their side. They spend a lot of time making sure that someone is on the map. Once this urgent need is removed, it will remove that I MUST be on mindset of some HC. Those who prioritized logging in to make sure the map was covered may well log in a lot less once we go to town supply because they know that their presence in game is not as critical.

I'm not saying HC won't matter. I hope it will. But to expect that HC players will log in more now that they will be needed less isn't a reasonable expectation. Heck, I would not be surprised if HC membership doesn't drop. In addition, if people do decide that they want to retire, I don't see why they would then decide to start leading in game, as they will likely want to enjoy a period of no responsibility at all.

Squad leadership is not likely to be affected at all.

As to your first point, there may be some of that, at first, but once officers realize they have been relieved of the burden of flag/unit movements, more will log in and stay in game longer.  More will join as well.

As to your second point, HC will matter because if you don't organize yourselves on a side-wide scale, the other side eventually will and will start kicking your azz.  Your playerbase will then demand that you organize yourselves, or they will do it themselves with or without your help.

VR

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quincannon
Just now, csm308 said:

As to your first point, there may be some of that, at first, but once officers realize they have been relieved of the burden of flag/unit movements, more will log in and stay in game longer.  More will join as well.

As to your second point, HC will matter because if you don't organize yourselves on a side-wide scale, the other side eventually will and will start kicking your azz.  Your playerbase will then demand that you organize yourselves, or they will do it themselves with or without your help.

VR

AS to YOUR first point, what I swas saying is that there is no guarantee that more Officers will log in or that more will join, especially if they don't feel that they have to in order to keep things going. To say that they will until or unless they actually do is nothing more than mere conjecture and supposition. In my comment, I stated one likely result, but I never said that it was a given.

As far as my second point, I never said that HC will not matter. But the level of importance that HC will have to the overall game is still yet to be determined. I will say this...if HC has no control over the map. and the Squads can do what they want, there is no guarantee that they won't ignore HC altogether. (I have heard many comments from guys in squads to the effect that they only deal with HC now because they have no other choice) You say that the player base will organize themselves, but you don't know that for sure. A side might lose a dozen campaigns and still never find a way to agree with other enough to become cohesive on a regular basis. As I have said in other posts, the thing that I always liked about the HC was that it put side over Squad or individual. I hope that they will still retain the ability to somehow 'herd the cats' after we go to town supply, but if not, then there is no way to know for sure how well organized anyone will be, especially the squads, if they can't or won't work together, and pursue individual goals and battle plans.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Capco
On 12/20/2016 at 11:09 AM, XOOM said:

High Command existed for many years prior to how things are set up today, they'll continue to exist because we also want it to stick around. But we want it around for the right reasons, and that comes down to the HC serving with and for the player base. 

I suspect we will see more folks involved with HC due to the lessened burden on them and a potential culture shift due to how it'll be operating.

HC will be operation centric and working towards coordinating its side's events / battles.

All the effort that they apply just to maintain what is today will be redeployed to things that nurture better game play and community growth.

 

2 hours ago, csm308 said:

As to your first point, there may be some of that, at first, but once officers realize they have been relieved of the burden of flag/unit movements, more will log in and stay in game longer.  More will join as well.

As to your second point, HC will matter because if you don't organize yourselves on a side-wide scale, the other side eventually will and will start kicking your azz.  Your playerbase will then demand that you organize yourselves, or they will do it themselves with or without your help.

VR

 

This notion that 1.36 will lead to HC "serving with and for the player base" is downright insulting to the many of us who have put in countless hours of our own free time to help out our respective sides, because it suggests that serving the PB wasn't done adequately before.  

 

I can't speak for GHC that much, but in AHC there is absolutely a sentiment of "we sacrifice our time to the benefit of the Allies as a whole" that is shared by our officers.  

 

I still think everyone is overestimating the effect of removing the MOIC position.  You are at most adding 24 man-hours of additional "organization" per day, and in a game with dozens and dozens of players, that's a drop in the bucket.  

Edited by capco
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
XOOM
6 minutes ago, capco said:

This notion that 1.36 will lead to HC "serving with and for the player base" is downright insulting to the many of us who have put in countless hours of our own free time to help out our respective sides, because it suggests that serving the PB wasn't done adequately before.  

 

I can't speak for GHC that much, but in AHC there is absolutely a sentiment of "we sacrifice our time to the benefit of the Allies as a whole" that is shared by our officers.  

 

I still think everyone is overestimating the effect of removing the MOIC position.  You are at most adding 24 man-hours of additional "organization" per day, and in a game with dozens and dozens of players, that's a drop in the bucket.  

Not meant to be insulting, or suggesting you and others who have invested many hours in this current system haven't done it to help others, but... there have been many cases where good willed people (as yourself) weren't around at certain times and players suffered, that's not even an arguable point really (I saw it first hand as a player and as a Rat).

There's a quite a few players who don't like how the system is currently setup, they find it to be a bit to controlling and they don't quite have the freedom of choice to rally their troops and prepare operations. 

All I'm saying is, instead of investing all of the time to monitor brigades and everything associated with them (think on how much that is for just a few more seconds please)...

Wouldn't it be outstanding if we invested that time into organizing our side more fluidly?

I'm not sure I'll get through to you on this one Capco, but I sure as hell am trying to get you to see the other side :).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Capco
5 minutes ago, XOOM said:

Not meant to be insulting, or suggesting you and others who have invested many hours in this current system haven't done it to help others, but... there have been many cases where good willed people (as yourself) weren't around at certain times and players suffered, that's not even an arguable point really (I saw it first hand as a player and as a Rat).

There's a quite a few players who don't like how the system is currently setup, they find it to be a bit to controlling and they don't quite have the freedom of choice to rally their troops and prepare operations. 

All I'm saying is, instead of investing all of the time to monitor brigades and everything associated with them (think on how much that is for just a few more seconds please)...

Wouldn't it be outstanding if we invested that time into organizing our side more fluidly?

I'm not sure I'll get through to you on this one Capco, but I sure as hell am trying to get you to see the other side :).

I do think it will help.  I just think it won't help as much as you think it will.  I'd love to be proven wrong too, because if what you envision does indeed happen, it WILL be great for the game :)

 

And thank you for the disclaimer about not being insulting.  I knew it wasn't meant like that, but it still rubbed me the wrong way.  And not because I felt it neglected my own sacrifices (I don't need any credit), but those sacrifices of my good friends in both HCs.  There are a few bad apples, but most of these guys are phenomenal people.  It's hard not to stick up for them.  

 

S!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PITTPETE
Quote

Do not  count on the change to town based supply meaning that HC officres will be more active in the field. As a matter of fact it is more likely to have the opposite effect. 

I believe you are wrong. Instead of fiddling around with moving Brigades, setting fallbacks, having to deal with blowback from the playerbase and not logging in for fear of having to be map OIC, the real leaders can/will be

towing

setting up FMS

coordinating with other/multiple squads on TS

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Capco
28 minutes ago, Pittpete said:

I believe you are wrong. Instead of fiddling around with moving Brigades, setting fallbacks, having to deal with blowback from the playerbase and not logging in for fear of having to be map OIC, the real leaders can/will be

towing

setting up FMS

coordinating with other/multiple squads on TS

I have yet to see a non-HC person, who does not already do all the things you've listed above, say they will now step up and start towing, setting up FMS, and coordinating with other squads.  The ones who join HC will be the ones who already do those things....

 

There will be no net increase in content creation that is not related to the population spike that is expected to come with 1.36.  And those numbers will come down, they always do, and I see no reason why they won't again after a month or so.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PITTPETE

They will have more time to do that instead of wasting time with all the strategic layering,yada yada yada crap.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Capco
15 minutes ago, Pittpete said:

They will have more time to do that instead of wasting time with all the strategic layering,yada yada yada crap.

Again, assuming 24/7 MOIC coverage (which is rare), removing the MOIC position relieves 24 man-hours to put into something else, which is just a drop in the bucket.  The only one doing the strategic part is the MOIC.  Every other officer is doing something at the tactical level aside from the MOIC.  

And there will still be an new kind of MOIC after 1.36 is released, someone making strategic decisions about where to place AOs and communicating their plan, just like we have now.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
pbveteran
On 12/19/2016 at 11:13 PM, samson said:

I don't think this would be an option, I know I'd still not want anything to do with moving flags around even if I was able to as a normal player, I wouldn't enjoy the abuse when I got it wrong, which I would, a lot. That's the problem with any player run system like flags, the vast majority of players have zero interest in doing this, they just want to get in and fight. So if you had no HC on and no player willing to step up, you still have the same flawed system.

I'm nervous about how this will work as most probably are, but what we have isn't working most of the time at the moment and letting any senior player move flags would be as disastrous as the current restricted system is.

Heck, half the time I'm not even that bothered which way the map is moving, as long as I can get a fair battle, that's all I mostly care about, and I'm willing to bet an awful lot of players feel the same.

Assault Groups of 30-40 tickets, add like 100+ to map assign to paying subscribers at X Rank, losing, routing or encircling 5 wouldn't make much difference.. Room for failure and capacity to learn from mistakes.

 

The best battles and experiences I had on WW2ol were all unfair fights on both ends, I will tell you of one of my best experiences as HC. (They probably the reason why I'm still here wasting my time writing posts)

My best experience with HC: (only happen because of flags and attrited flags)

- I was given Moic with a strong attack on south of the map I was on the ground assessing the situation, we were under-attack for a long time all brigades were attrited down to mostly rifles and atgs, all the players were asking for more supply.

I said I'm fighting here with you, we are winning and the situation is under-control, I kept patrolling cps asking for players to do the same, check constantly link cp, I kept calling for marks and flankers, allies didn't manage to make any advancement despite many moles and half captures on CPs they didn't made a dent. In the end I was congratulated* by a few players by my gameplay and leadership instead of just giving supply to be wasted on an a battle that was under-control.

*Some HC officers rotate brigades straight away once they are damaged, I only done this when the situation was out of control and we have no ZoC or was difficult to leave town. This is great when you are on the ground playing but it gets really difficult to manage the entire front while doing this front line command duty. (that's why I want so badly the control of my own 1-3 assault groups)

On 12/19/2016 at 11:43 PM, Pittpete said:

The HC flag moving system is a failure, no matter how many F2P know it alls come crawling out of the woodwork.

There are a handful of players complaining about town based supply because they will no longer be able to control the player base just because they filled out an online form.

You want to control, earn the respect of your playerbase.  Lead by example and players will follow and go where you need them. 

I think some of you guys are selfish and scared trying to hold on to this failed system

I complain from the many positive and epic experiences I have had due to the flags system and because it's a better design choice which offer much more cool features in the future and a complete realistic layer to the game that was never taken to a finger of it's potential.

I want you to have your own Assault Group and Lead your soldiers by example !.. (assign to you due to your rank and game performance not external or manual invitation)

 

I think it's selfish to throw a system that hasn't gone any attempt to fix or improved in 11 years and players have never had a chance to have a say in improving the system.

On 12/20/2016 at 1:43 AM, madrebel said:

and if you do this the players online STILL WON'T WANT TO MOVE FLAGS! they're already online right? they could join HC or reserve HC if they wanted too right? they just don't want too.

the system IS the problem.

I don't know what Reserve HC is I don't recall it but I will tell you what is or was HC when I joined:

- it required voice interviewed by community managers or axis HC

- agreement to the HC ToS which was basically a gag-ball preventing you from criticize CRS on the forums,

- then you basically had to be working to make sure flags were proper setup, you had that [censored] system that to retreat a brigade to the town you wanted it, you had to move it to that town and moved it again to the town it was suppose to stay

- then had you be looking at wiretap to know what allies flags movements where so you could mirror them or counter...

- then you wanted to play the game you loved with no restrictions, but no1 wanted Moic or there was no HC online

- having High Command coordinate and setup an attack for days straight in Ant and once we are about to win, reset the AO no prior notice and done twice.. 

- But the worst offense was the [censored] you got from making a honest mistake or different tactical approach warranting you personal attacks... Just look at the bellow come like posted a few days ago by Leanderj

Quote

by this time ahc should have reacted allready, and i know they were on (not gonna call names) but they didnt shift flags to oostende or try to move back.. instead they aod torhout (or the town next to it.. cant remember). We held that place good. Then oostende fell. After that i think we went for aalter with only 1 link.. and managed to boot flags as well .. and cap the town. 

All this as a paying player... HC is sh$t as it is but the only minor problem of flags is that there are so few of them, there is no room for mistake, you rout 2 brigades you might have a breakthrough on the map, this is the reason no one wants to be moic, too much responsibility, no gain and too much work with no room to make mistakes while having less time to actually play the game..

On 12/20/2016 at 1:49 AM, Mosizlak said:

Yup. 

We capped Sedan today, and 5 flags routed to a pocket instead of safely falling back.  Just a stupid system and it needs to be killed as quickly as they can do it. 

No room for mistakes.. lets just throw an entire feature on the bin that adds a new layer and game mode to the game without any attempt to improve it in over 11 years..

On 12/20/2016 at 4:14 AM, david01 said:

Pbveteran the the main reason flags are going away is because the company can't sustain the maintenance anymore. The current system was great for the old dev team because it gave all the game managers and nontechnical personnel excellent job security. Someone had to approve and discipline high commanders, get on the server and move flags when HC weren't on, constantly monitor and intervene when bugs occurred etc. From that perspective it was much better than town supply which ran by itself with minimal maintenance.

For the new dev team (which seems to consist of Xoom and a handful of other employees with a bunch of volunteers) it's way too much work. No part-time employee or community volunteer wants to log on at 3:00 a.m. and watch a faction's flags for six hours in addition to their normal duties. Yet the strategic game not working is CRS's responsibility because they directly control HC and normal players have no ability to affect the strategic game.

A small amount of code, with the server literally counting players within a circle from town and flipping some conditions would be 10x better than a voting system. AO get set by population, players "vote" for AOs with their feet by going to towns. It has the added benefit of being able to be used 100% of the time not just when no HC are on.

HC has so much responsibility and oversight that it's equivalent to a paid position, but of course it's not paid. It's a incredibly failure-prone system. Anything that relies on it will fail when HC fails.

 

On 12/20/2016 at 1:28 AM, rule303 said:

The sole problem that I see being raised is simply that players complain that HC can't always be on - so rather than destroy the flag system, why not simply have it that individual premium players can propose attack and defense orders, which other players can vote on to approve or disprove, unless HC is on who can veto if necessary.

The problem is not flags. It's simply that there isn't enough players to have a sufficient High Command structure in place without the ability for people to be acting HC reliably in place.

I'm all for a voting system has a short term solution, like Redorchestra 2 players vote what section of Stalingrad to attack and what map to choose, if they don't win the attack or defense everyone takes the blame.

This would also teach players how to move the flags and would be much more difficult to take advantage and exploit the system because it's an average of players choices.

But wouldn't you guys prefer a Fixed number of Smaller brigades that get assign to active and high rank subscribers and each of you command 1 to 3 ? 

Edited by pbveteran

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
hector781
10 hours ago, Pittpete said:

I believe you are wrong. Instead of fiddling around with moving Brigades, setting fallbacks, having to deal with blowback from the playerbase and not logging in for fear of having to be map OIC, the real leaders can/will be

towing

setting up FMS

coordinating with other/multiple squads on TS

The appealing part of HC to me and many others is that we get to enjoy the strategy involved with flag movement. But we understand that because we are in charge of our sides entire future when we are moic we are willing to make the sacrifice to do all the grunt work you have listed. Towing, setting fms, organizing attacks and re-supplying stugs that run out of ammo in less than a minute (that last one is for my comrades in GHC hehe). We do this work because we get to move the map. There is nothing more satisfying than cutting off an enemy division and nothing more painful then being responsible for losing one. So in order to achieve our strategic goals many in HC go above and beyond to ensure victory in objectives through in game leadership. My point is that by removing brigades we are removing the reason for why many of are in HC, why HC works so hard to provide in game support and leadership. Fiddling with moving brigades is not a chore its why we play. In my opinion without brigades and strategy HC will lose the motivation to provide in game leadership. Some of my most memorable and enjoyable experiences are sitting with an experienced officer and learning about how to move brigades. Sometimes I login and just watch the map. Flags are awesome and they are the reason I keep coming back to this game over the last five years, so I will be heart broken to see them go.

 

However I can understand why they are being taken away,

The reason brigades are leaving is problems to do with HC. Xoom's logic for removing brigades is pretty solid. There is simply not enough people in HC who want to spend hours moving the map and the player base can be ruthless when an officer makes a mistake, making the attrition rate for officers high. Being in HC can be insanely stressful. There is also a lot to learn about flags when someone joins HC so it is a lot of work just to understand how flags work.  At this point in time being in HC is a burden to too many and it has cost both the Allies and the Axis enormously. Example: 18hrs no GHC login, and the allies rout our center and we lose the map. 

 

A perfect world,

What I would like to see is a way to keep flags but reduce the burden on HC. I know the coding for what I want is difficult which is why I am not expecting CRS to input it. But I would like to see what many people have suggested as well. Town based supply but with flags that don't have enormous supply, but enough to strategically reinforce. These could be controlled by squads (perhaps each squad gets its own flag) or perhaps HC gets to control these flags. Either way we don't lose the strategic element that makes this game great. In my opinion the strategic element is a motivation for in game leaders to rise up and lead their sides to victory.

 

S! ,

hector781, just a guy who loves his flags

 

 

Just a little side note regarding the title of this discussion post, @XOOM has frequently discussed the changes to the flag system and there are many posts about this. I will never support the removal of flags but to say there has been no discussion or information does not do justice to how hard XOOM has worked to ensure that we know what the future of this game will look like. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
gsc

If i wanted to set FRUs (FMS) nonstop  - i would and could, something which was primary HC stuff ie walking FRUs in 30mins before AO change until they "fixed" that, ever since, nah

If i wanted to TOW stuff, i would and could - something one will do if necessary even now

If i wanted to organize and lead while spawned in, one could and would, even now if bored enough

All bollocks arguments about what HC can do once flags are gone because there are no good ones except the myriad of personal gripes cloaked as official gamebreaking elements wrapped in the "good for the game" flag

 

If HC wants to do all of the above, and many do, nothing is stopping them from doing so even w Flags around - some have done this tedious schit for years by now tho and are just tired of doing so if not actually getting migraines just thinking about having to spawn in somewhere by now - recent "better for gameplay* (*by popular demand)" fixes making it even worse...

For the latter category the strategic element re. Flags/Supply/Links/Training new HC is the only thing making them shell out $17.99/month

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mosizlak

I hear what Hector and GSC are saying, and it would be tragic if they unsubbed because of flags going away, but the system we have now just doesn't work. It doesn't work. 

Supply getting trapped because of no HC on sucks. It screws up everyone, because it takes away action, the reason most of us play. I don't sub to this game to cap empty towns, to make these stupid Laon cutoffs when no one is playing just because we could, etc. 

I pay to play to kill other players and have battles, win or lose. Action. Not cutting off towns to softcap other towns. 

Cutoffs and trapped supply prevents action a lot of time. Fact. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
vasduten1
2 hours ago, gsc said:

If i wanted to set FRUs (FMS) nonstop  - i would and could, something which was primary HC stuff ie walking FRUs in 30mins before AO change until they "fixed" that, ever since, nah

If i wanted to TOW stuff, i would and could - something one will do if necessary even now

If i wanted to organize and lead while spawned in, one could and would, even now if bored enough

All bollocks arguments about what HC can do once flags are gone because there are no good ones except the myriad of personal gripes cloaked as official gamebreaking elements wrapped in the "good for the game" flag

 

If HC wants to do all of the above, and many do, nothing is stopping them from doing so even w Flags around - some have done this tedious schit for years by now tho and are just tired of doing so if not actually getting migraines just thinking about having to spawn in somewhere by now - recent "better for gameplay* (*by popular demand)" fixes making it even worse...

For the latter category the strategic element re. Flags/Supply/Links/Training new HC is the only thing making them shell out $17.99/month

Here you go, a game that will tickle your board game jones:

http://funkypotato.com/risk-world-conquest/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Capco
2 hours ago, Mosizlak said:

I hear what Hector and GSC are saying, and it would be tragic if they unsubbed because of flags going away, but the system we have now just doesn't work. It doesn't work. 

Supply getting trapped because of no HC on sucks. It screws up everyone, because it takes away action, the reason most of us play. I don't sub to this game to cap empty towns, to make these stupid Laon cutoffs when no one is playing just because we could, etc. 

I pay to play to kill other players and have battles, win or lose. Action. Not cutting off towns to softcap other towns. 

Cutoffs and trapped supply prevents action a lot of time. Fact. 

I'm no coder, but I have a hunch a simple text command to set fallbacks would have been easier than what they are doing for 1.36. That alone probably could have prevented at least 80% of all cut offs from happening.

 

I know that's not the only gripe with flags, but it's a completely viable solution to this particular gripe that was ultimately turned down. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
pbveteran

@capco

Don't you think the current number of brigades amplify mistakes ?

Softcaps are a byproduct of the reduced number of brigades... What is trying to be achieved with town supply could be achieved with more brigades and smaller supply per brigade.

I also disagree with one moic.. think it's too much of burden having distributed control would make it less demanding and add more teamwork among players who had control of these.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
csm308

I get the feeling that many of those (not all of course) posting negatively about 1.36, simply either weren't playing the game from 2001 to 2007 (Pre-TO&E's) or weren't in the HC's at that time. 

Even without flags to move, HC officers were incredibly busy.  Busy doing what you may ask?  Planning and conducting operations with your squad, or with the squads in your unit, or HC-wide if it was a side-wide operation.   The GHC at the time had an organization based upon timezones.  My unit, the 3rd Panzer Division, had a EURO command team and a US command team.  HBD250, the squad CO of 250 Hispana, was the EURO commander of 3rd PD EURO and Soldat10, Panzer Lehr CO, was the 3rd PD US commander.  They shared command and planned and conducted operations for their timezones, and/or cooperated to initiate an operation in EURO time and carry it through into the US timezone.

Without flags, the biggest part of operational planning was overstocking the units in preparation for the attack.  Overstocking could take place up to a week in advance, 24/7, before the actual attack.  Normal overstock was 2-3 days before an attack.  Huge amounts of equipment were overstocked to make them available for an attack.  I don't know what the overstock limit will be for 1.36 but the current overstock limit will have to increased markedly to get people to actually do it.

Operations were going on constantly, so you and your squad were either leading an operation or were participating in another unit's operation.  Tactical expertise was the coin of the realm for squad and HC leadership.  You couldn't be considered a good leader if you didn't know how to conduct an attack or a defense of a town.  1.36 may bring that back. 

Those who are saying that people won't join the new HC simply don't understand what it was like pre-TO&E's.  My Kampfgruppe, KG-2 of the 3rd PD US, had a CO, XO, XXO and OIC 1-10 positions within it.  That's thirteen HC officers for just one KG.  Those positions were almost always full and there was competition to be added as people were promoted up.  I kid you not! 

No doubt it will be a painful few months as 1.36 is initiated.  HC's are so depleted that it won't be fixed over night.  I imagine it will be up to a year before the new system takes hold and squads realize the full potential of the system.

As for towns being "owned," my squad, Panzer Lehr, chose Andenne as our home town, in addition to what ever town the GHC selected as our KG frontline town.  Coincidentally, the Allied Squad, 3rd Canadian Division, had also chosen Andenne as THEIR home town.  For several years it was a constant battle for ownership of Andenne.  It was a point of honor as to who owned Andenne.  It became quite manic as the squads battled back and forth their home town.  You had to be playing in those years to understand the intensity of "owning" your town. That sense of "ownership" can be made to come back with help from CRS in the public relations department.

The possibilities for 1.36 could be immense if approached and enacted properly.

VR

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...