• Announcements

    • CHIMM

      RAT Chat Sunday 12/8 3pm server time!!!!   12/07/2019

      CRS is working overtime preparing and setting up the NEW SERVERS at the Portland colocation. This Sunday, December 8th, at 3:00 pm CST/9:00 pm GMT (Greenwich Mean Time). XOOM and the RATs are hosting a live chat discussing the move, and what services will be temporarily impacted in the process. Live chat link will be provided in discord channels when available. We look forward to chatting with you!
monsjoex

LMG's: improve them and weaken them.

37 posts in this topic

On 24-12-2016 at 4:00 PM, wongone said:

Will this make it easier to look thru the sights and see the target? I can't see anything when firing with the LMG.

Yes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/23/2016 at 10:10 AM, david01 said:

Because...all infantry have the same hitpoints, travel at the same speeds, nearly all weapons can kill infantry in one shot and all infantry have direct counterparts on the other faction. No faction gets a special infantry type that the others don't. There are multiple generic infantry classes that play exactly the same and just have rifles and grenades switched out. The different LMGs don't get special abilities or resistances. The only practical differences are magazine size, rate of fire, recoil and reload times. Even the differences in accuracy, ballistics, and caliber turn out to be irrelevant details most of the time.

 

There are tanks meanwhile that are invulnerable or practically invulnerable and there are many tanks with no direct counterpart. Some tanks will also reliably defeat everything else below them. You can literally park a tank in the right position and lord over an entire brigade's spawn list. Every faction's LMG on the other hand has the same vulnerability.

 

I can't believe that people are trying to talk about balance without mentioning health or time-to-kill. I mean it must require willful ignorance. The last time the allies theorycrafted the axis LMG numbers down it was hilarious, I think it was Kilemall or someone who convinced Doc that the MG34 was equivalent to a tank because it had a higher rate-of-fire and suddenly one map there were a lot less MG34s.

If the infantry lists were balanced being 1:1, the historical K/Ds would balance. 

 

But they do not. The MG34 is clearly in a realm of its own. Axis grenadiers have actual use on the battlefield. The enfield was easily the worst bolt action in the game for what, 14 years? It wasn't until its ROF increase that it reached parity with the 98k. There are pretty significant differences in the functionality of infantry weapons. 

 

Just because infantry have the same health and run speed, they should be 1:1? Do you realize how that crazy that sounds?

Edited by capco

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Balance is easy when you strive for red vs blue on a linear scale.

However, our game attempts to balance

over all branches army/navy/air

with historical weapons guns/tanks/ships planes/bombers/trucks

 in a tier progression, player driven environment

Game balance becomes precarious and dynamic as a whole.

you cant pick out a single screw and say that the screw holding the other side together is bigger, and must be adjusted

The weight of the entire machine must be taken into account.

However, you can always cherry pick some stats to solidify an agenda

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let the Gerries have the MG34. Again, it's depicted like the devastating machine gun it really was. The Allies have other advantages over the Germans, such as better fighters, faster tanks, stronger armoured cars, faster firing rifles, stronger and more accurate submachine guns...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, rule303 said:

Let the Gerries have the MG34. Again, it's depicted like the devastating machine gun it really was. The Allies have other advantages over the Germans, such as better fighters, faster tanks, stronger armoured cars, faster firing rifles, stronger and more accurate submachine guns...

Again, these better fighters t,anks and armored cars all differ in numbers per side.
Infantry equipment does not.

Next to this the LMG´s should be better in the field and weaker in close combat. It only makes sense that a light SMG does better than a big [censored] LMG in `around the corner` warfare.

Edited by monsjoex

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/23/2016 at 3:00 AM, krazydog said:

I think if you want to make LMGs more realistic and weaken them by making it more of a burden to move them, reload them, and  (or) fire them while standing up, then you also should strengthen the lmg by given it better suppression fire when it is in a good well-deployed position .

I mean in real life a well-placed and deployed LMG could pin down a whole squad from moving around without killing anyone.  (So could mortars).  You dont really have that in this game. Direct hits are modelled in this game but realistic suppression fire is not.   Everyone is a Rambo in this game - naturally - since there is little concern about death.

 

Not sure how (or if) its possible to model suppression fire in this game.   Maybe the ability to slow down the movement of enemy infantry a little  if a deployed LMG near misses them to simulate a pinning down effect.  Butt that might get annoying too.  Not sure.

I also think the LMG should be able to be deployed from more  locations in game (like windows in buildings) .  And maybe the background lighting inside buildings should be darker so people don't spot LMG deployed in a window so easily.  (Hopefully CRS can do this when  they can edit terrain).

Just some thoughts.

 

Im completely on board with LMGs doing what they were designed to do, this mission.

 

It's the Terminator depot sweeper stuff that sets me off.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/23/2016 at 9:10 AM, david01 said:

I can't believe that people are trying to talk about balance without mentioning health or time-to-kill. I mean it must require willful ignorance. The last time the allies theorycrafted the axis LMG numbers down it was hilarious, I think it was Kilemall or someone who convinced Doc that the MG34 was equivalent to a tank because it had a higher rate-of-fire and suddenly one map there were a lot less MG34s.

It's not theorycrafting, the Axis LMG absolutely is like a tank in terms of suppression and the only stat that really counts, capping facilities.

 

If a tank is knocked out, in most cases the tanker will have to take at least 10 minutes to get in position again.  Meanwhile with FRUs the LMG is back in no time at all to provide suppressing or capturing superiority.  Doubly so with FMS if tanks can't suppress/cut.

 

What is not true is that I ever advocated that Axis LMGs be lowered.  Maybe some other Allied did, but I think the Axis should have non-red vs. blue advantages.  Vive la difference. 

 

But I do want the Axis LMG recognized as the firepower monster it is and be firmly marked in the advantage column and not neuter the Allied spawnlist without the LMGs taken into consideration.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, stankyus said:

Five stars.

 

@vasduten1let's pull all lmgs until the allies gets a lmg like the mg34.. 

let's pull all SMGs until axis get a smg like the allies have...

guys your SMG is equal to our LMG, in town allies are uber to axis and out of town axis uber to allies. i would switch any day the axis LMG with the fench SMG.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

MP34 and MP40 are nowhere near as good as ANY of the Allied SMGs, except maybe the MAS38. The Grease Gun, Sten and Thompsons run circles in their lethality and accuracy and sights over the MP34 and MP40. The Gewehr 41(W) and Gewehr 43 are also nowhere near as accurate as the MAS40 or M1 Garand, meaning that they can't be used effectively in their intended role of accurate aimed rifle fire. The PZB39 is a single shot breechloader whereas the Allied Boys ATR is a 5 shot bolt action rifle. Leave the Axis LMG as it is - it's a great weapon, and balances out the other infantry advantages the Allies have over the Axis.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, parasit said:

let's pull all SMGs until axis get a smg like the allies have...

guys your SMG is equal to our LMG, in town allies are uber to axis and out of town axis uber to allies. i would switch any day the axis LMG with the fench SMG.

Not serious, that was a swipe a a post about dropping the ACs till the axis get one like the pan... but he was serious.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.