rule303

Mass Sandbagging

79 posts in this topic

Philipville AO as we speak - a certain Axis TZ3 squad literally placed Sandbags all over the North Armybase vehicle spawn and gates to prevent any spawning or rescue cutting from our armour outside so that they could cap it freely, and point blank shooting the sandbags 12 times with 57mm HE did absolutely nothing before EI from this squad was hiding in the veh spawn and stabbed me to death. This sort of behaviour and bug exploits should not be accepted - all PPOs should have a minimum distance to enemy facilities to place.

Edited by rule303

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try grab a rifleman and use the HE or nade

Or kill them before they put sandbag in ur armybase:popcorn:

I see no bug or exploit, the veh is not blocked, allies can still spawn at veh and move inside freely

 

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Lost Philipville. Can't do jack [censored] when an attacking overpopped side who already has a severe manpower advantage goes and exploits bugs to take a town.

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28 minutes ago, heilmittel said:

try grab a rifleman and use the HE or nade

Or kill them before they put sandbag in ur armybase:popcorn:

I see no bug or exploit, the veh is not blocked, allies can still spawn at veh and move inside freely

 

That would be nice and all, but the precamp vehicle spawn blocking with sandbags and tank traps was setup well before the AO was ever placed, and defenders shouldn't be having to watch their ABs like a hawk before an AO is placed - it completely destroys any natural frontline of the fight taking place.

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Saw this happen before in an AB. 

1 sandbag placed in the gate completely blocked my tank from moving out. How is it that i cant crush it? Why arent 3 AP shells enough to kill it?

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This wasn't just 1 sandbag, but roughly 10 sandbags and 2 tank traps on the vehicle spawn completely blocking it off, and then sandbags at each gate.

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2 hours ago, rule303 said:

Philipville AO as we speak - a certain Axis TZ3 squad literally placed Sandbags all over the North Armybase vehicle spawn and gates to prevent any spawning or rescue cutting from our armour outside so that they could cap it freely, and point blank shooting the sandbags 12 times with 57mm HE did absolutely nothing before EI from this squad was hiding in the veh spawn and stabbed me to death. This sort of behaviour and bug exploits should not be accepted - all PPOs should have a minimum distance to enemy facilities to place.

There is a minimum distance between objects.  That's why you can't stack them end to end creating an unbroken wall, or place them directly on the AB wall blocking the MH entrances.  Given the time it takes to put up PPO, if a group put up that many seems like that AB may not have been the best in the world.  

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I'm sure the EWS was on the town . Any time a EWS is lit on a town without an AO means something is about to happen . Like a tank precamp set up , or in this case a total blockade of an AB .

In this case sounds to me they set up a trap without the other side ever being just slightly curious why the EWS is lit but no AO and then never checking the town till it was to late.

 

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Hi

Pville is a big town and we had maybe 4 or 5 of us checking cps and recapping so no time to go to nab.  I went there to check the nab when it was time and saw the sandbags for the first time.   I had seen a HT and 88 go to the n hill to camp nab earlier.  

I dont think people understand how underpopulated allies are at some times.   Later some more allies came but there was no time really to try 'fix' the ab as by that stage we were trying to clear the bunker.     If its cool to do this sort of thing, Im sure it will bring a whole new dyanamic to fb/ab attack/defence etc. though.

Zig

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I expect that vets and true supports of this game would not condone this stuff.

Its gamey. Its ugly. It leads to more excuses for the next discovered exploit.

 

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I will call it a bug or exploit if the PPO make people clip in it and they cannot move when they spawn in(E.g. like placing gun placement on somewhere for precamp)

however, those sandbag in AB do not block the movement of atg or tank inside the veh, they can still move around and fire

And those sandbag can be easily destroys (don't have pop to clear is underpop issue)

 

Big town battle in low pop tz, underpop is another issue

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I disagree.  The play is completely fine imo.  You have EWS at a town, investigate it.  If the attacker manages to sneak into your AB and plant 20 fortifications, I think that is on the defender to figure it out.  Also, First person in should yell how the AB has enemy activity and rifles should begin clearing the AB and setting HE on the fortifications to destroy them.

The real problem sounds like a.) either significantly under pop or b. ) lazy.  I'm guessing a.

We can't keep changing the game to cater to the lowest pop time.  What we need to do, is not allow extreme under pop (if that is what you were) or grow pop.

The new PPOs finally allow for some interesting play, lets not neuter them after we just got them.  And, imo, they should be allowed to be placed MUCH closer.  I can't get sandbags close enough to walls of buildings for example, or stack them; I'ld like to be able to .

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7 minutes ago, Silky said:

Its an exploit, clearly. A blind man on a galloping horse can see its exploiting

Its a bug that sandbags can't be killed with a couple of AP shots from a tank?

Victarus idicated it would only take that.

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This sounds like a TZ3 population issue. I've never had the time to place more than a few PPOs during a fight. Usually the most mission critical PPOs (that is, FMS and some gun pits to protect flanks) get built and then players focus on the attack. Even during prime time you still need to concentrate a combined arms team into a ZOC to do it really effectively. 

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It's my understanding, an exploit would be setting ppo's to prevent vehicles from spawning. In this instance (from what is described) tanks were able to spawn, although not able to move out. I don't see this as an exploit.

The damage of the ppo's (IMO) need to be looked at. We were warned that they will be difficult to destroy - personally speaking, I'm perplexed that some vehicles can destroy them with ease, yet others can not.

All things considered, I think that the Axis players have been very creative using the new "toys". 

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3 minutes ago, chimm said:

It's my understanding, an exploit would be setting ppo's to prevent vehicles from spawning. In this instance (from what is described) tanks were able to spawn, although not able to move out. I don't see this as an exploit.

The damage of the ppo's (IMO) need to be looked at. We were warned that they will be difficult to destroy - personally speaking, I'm perplexed that some vehicles can destroy them with ease, yet others can not.

All things considered, I think that the Axis players have been very creative using the new "toys". 

It's an exploit. 

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There certainly needs to be some restrictions on AB's, But I think you should be allowed to place PPO at AB entrances to fortify and slow the enemy advancement.

 

I also would prefer that sandbags were build in stages requiring more people which would increase the time, this would make less viable do place them on high player activity areas and allow to easily destroy first stage Sandbags but make it harder for higher stages.

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PPOs should be designed to be used as force multipliers. As such, they should not be available to the overpop side.

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Well how is that any different then have a 2 pounder at every murder hole and kill any panzer that tries to spawn in ( Just seen it done). And the INF can't even get anywhere close to outside of the AB cause its well locked down.

Axis can't even pull a little stunt like that cause the pak36 wont have the desired effect on Allied armor.

Im just saying . Yes Axis could have tried to build PPOs in front of the murder holes but like i stated movement within the AB alone was dangerous . The Axis side missed the boat on that one and every piece of Armor that was spawned in got killed and the INF could not clean the ATG out nor even make it out to recap . BTW that was a few nights ago when Allied capped Schilde.

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3 hours ago, delems said:

I disagree.  The play is completely fine imo.  You have EWS at a town, investigate it.  If the attacker manages to sneak into your AB and plant 20 fortifications, I think that is on the defender to figure it out.  Also, First person in should yell how the AB has enemy activity and rifles should begin clearing the AB and setting HE on the fortifications to destroy them.

The real problem sounds like a.) either significantly under pop or b. ) lazy.  I'm guessing a.

We can't keep changing the game to cater to the lowest pop time.  What we need to do, is not allow extreme under pop (if that is what you were) or grow pop.

The new PPOs finally allow for some interesting play, lets not neuter them after we just got them.  And, imo, they should be allowed to be placed MUCH closer.  I can't get sandbags close enough to walls of buildings for example, or stack them; I'ld like to be able to .

Philipville is a huge town to defend with maybe only the 7-8 people we had online (when I asked in side chat to sound off what people were doing I literally got two responses and that was it.) We can't go around checking Army Bases and CPs without an AO - our guys were fighting tooth and nail as it was to try and defend Wavre (successfully) and then LeChesne (unsuccessfully) as we had extremely low population with no organized squads, when the Axis had at least two organized squads online. So if you have an EWS on, but no AO, we couldn't afford to send manpower over, and any manpower that did go there obviously isn't going to check ABs, because the town has to be contested for us to have to begin worrying about defending ABs. So the 5 man squad involved doing it was able to quickly in relatively no time setup the blocking sandbags over all the vehicle spawn and AB gates unmolested.

I'm not saying neuter PPOs. I'm saying have a minimum distance to enemy flags to place them. They are supposed to be defensive structures and fortifications, not a tool you can use to further precamp/camp somebody - that completely discourages the huge open ZOC fights that CRS designed PPOs for and will simply aid in running the game to the ground.

The point being that this sort of crap is NOT in the spirit of the new PPO system and is just going to kill the game if something is not done to prevent it being abused.

 

5 hours ago, B2K said:

There is a minimum distance between objects.  That's why you can't stack them end to end creating an unbroken wall, or place them directly on the AB wall blocking the MH entrances.  Given the time it takes to put up PPO, if a group put up that many seems like that AB may not have been the best in the world.  

Underpopped side with 7-8 players on. Axis had an organized 5 man squad do it before an AO was ever placed whilst we were busy defending another town. Philipville is a large town as it is, being it has 2 ABs. Clearly your minimum distance between objects doesn't work, because the sandbags were literally placed end to end in an unbroken wall, with hedgehogs on the side where the corner of the vehicle spawn walls met the sandbag wall. The sandbags placed in the AB and at the gates literally were end to end unbroken walls. Not even infantry would have been able to run through them. Also, sandbags have a very fast recharge timer (its the fastest out of all the PPOs) and you don't need an engineer to place them. A five man squad doing this would have been able to set it up in a very short manner, especially because they had brought in a Panzer with them camping it prior to the attack being placed.

All you literally have to do, is make PPOs have a minimum placement distance to enemy flags. I have no problems with people barricading themselves in an AB that they control. But you shouldn't be able to stumble on up to an enemy AB before an AO is ever placed and completely block everything in - it's supposed to be an army base housing an entire brigade in there - five lowly engineers trying to set that up would outright in theory be slaughtered by the brigade and detected, but the game doesn't have the manpower or numbers anymore to make that a literal reality, especially in TZ3.

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The simple test is whether we think that the Dev team put sandbags in knowing that players would/could block the vehicle spawn preventing vehicles from leaving and so limiting the vehicle players game experience 

 

The reasonable judgement is that, no, the dev team did not bring in sandbags so that players could be blocked in their spawn facility 

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