XOOM

Organization wins battles

52 posts in this topic

And the good news is, you can do it, but you have to really get engaged and go for it. It won't be easy at first, some people may be a little skeptical because they may not know who you are, but as you continue to "show up" and get stuff done, they'll catch on. Eventually, you'll build a following and have more ability to rally troops and get things done. This takes sometime to achieve so don't be impatient and don't give up trying.

Tonight was a valuable lesson during my time playing Allied (as I am for this Campaign).

Here's how tonight went for me...

  • Logged in. Reviewed a .report fly across my screen accusing CRS of "Making the Axis have God Mode."
  • After pm'ing that player to have a chat and try to figure out what they were actually trying to say, it was a repetitive cycle of how we did something wrong.
  • Then it went into side channel, and I suggested that if you guys (the Allies in this case) got organized, you would be successful.
  • That same player then says something to the effect that now CRS is placing the blame on the player base instead of fixing what ever it was that was broken (still don't have an answer?).
  • So I looked at the clock to see how much time I had, and saw I could salvage a bit of playing in my schedule, it'd be good for me - why not?
  • I watched the in-game numbers all day, recognizing the Allies had an overpop pretty consistently, but weren't being too successful, they were actually on defense (aka: turtle mode).
  • So I asked ALL the players that could, to join me in the Allied TS3 lobby chat, and proceeded to ask for players currently on TS3 to join us.
  • The goal was simple, have an organized force of about 20-30'ish players.
  • In addition, any new player joining the game for the night who routinely joins TS3 is going to go, "Hey what's going on here? I want to be apart of that!" ~ And so many did. Meaning our numbers grew more.
  • By that time we had a target already picked out and a few of us (myself included) were Engineers placing multiple PPOs leading to our target.
  • We used the .allied function to promote the mission and kept people focused on the mission, reducing the radio clutter and griping so we could get engaged into the battle and be successful.
  • Success breeds success. When you position a group of people with leaders, amazing things happen.
  • The core to our success is organization. That is achieved by players having a willingness to participate / listen, and leaders to have drive to move players in the right direction.
  • Players want to be led, and everyone including the leadership wants to be apart of something successful. Anyone can do it, all it takes is a little nudge and to massage it properly.
  • We also effectively transitioned troops from one battle to the next. Near the end of the battle (when we knew it was going to be ours), we started setting up the next AO.
  • In doing this, we made the fun factor remain in place and reduce any "down-time." This was very hard for our Axis counterparts to manage, but they did a pretty damn good job all things considered.
  • I learned that the FMS can be destroyed, and in surprising ways. Sometimes you don't even realize in the heat of battle is taking hits, and boom, it just goes down, shit happens, fix it, don't get worked up.
  • I also learned (generally speaking), a large chunk of our player base (on both sides) have not adapted to the FMS yet, and do not create a ZOC always to ensure its survival - this is a major blunder to not do that.
  • When we organized our players, gave them a mission, supported that mission and set up a path of success, they responded very well.
  • It also increased the necessity for me personally to work hard towards getting an integrated voice solution into the game. I already knew the value of voice comms years ago during my time as a player, but just being able to vision everyone organized and working together using voice as an integrated solution... oh man that will make the game play SO much better.
  • As a result of tonight's effort, we secured three (3) towns and were pushing on a fourth before I had to log.

Moral of the story: Do not give up. Organize your side and troops. Provide a path to success. Do the boring work of driving a truck and setting up their next AO in advance so you can retain troops and gain more ground.

This game is hard, that's part of the great fulfillment you receive after achieving something magnificent. It is amazing to me to see the FMS and all of these new PPOs in action. At one point it was an idea in my head, then on my white board, then with our team we molded it into what you see today and now you guys are helping us mold things further. What an amazing experience for all of us, eh?

The key to your sides success, is understanding some basic principles of leadership, and more importantly, having the drive to achieve greatness and not give up despite the hardships you will face.

That's actually the reason CRS still exists today, because a band of us whack'a'loons decided to do that very thing, and today we're back to building a game when no one thought we'd be here.

Okay, I'm off to rest now (approaching 1 AM :o ).

S! 

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Thanks for doing things like this, Xoom!  BTW, I got a kick out of logging in a couple days ago to see you, playing Allied, flying overhead.  Can we keep you?  :)

 

 

 

-Irish

 

 

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XOOM

  • Vice President & COO

*says attracting people to a OP is easy*

 

had some XO's in lancers try this in 95-110, easy enough to get fellow lancers going but nobody else spawned. HC even shut us down sometimes.

 

6 hours ago, XOOM said:

I also learned (generally speaking), a large chunk of our player base (on both sides) have not adapted to the FMS yet, and do not create a ZOC always to ensure its survival - this is a major blunder to not do that.

fricken allies need to stop making them behind town 1km (4min run!) away with impossible tank cover. in their defense the FMS takes ages to put up and our trucks apparently use jet engines.

 

 

screw teamspeak. i have it but hate using third party programs, if you keep relying on third party programs the *teamspeak OPS* will be too rare to even be considered as normal gameplay.

those guys NEVER read chat or mark too.

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Thanks for getting the guys out of turtle mode.  I know first hand how difficult that can be sometimes, but like you said if you just keep going. eventually things start to fall into place (although with your name recognition it was probably easier than usual; something to keep in mind).  

 

And to all the people who don't think they are organizers/leaders or don't want to try:  the next phase of the game is going to be the perfect breeding ground for the next generation of content creators.  We NEED you to step up to the plate and at least try!  Success isn't immediate or even guaranteed, but the rewards are worth it.  We're going to need more content than ever before if we want to retain as much of the initial Steam influx as well.  

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5 minutes ago, major0noob said:

screw teamspeak. i have it but hate using third party programs, if you keep relying on third party programs the *teamspeak OPS* will be too rare to even be considered as normal gameplay.

those guys NEVER read chat or mark too.

I think voice comms are a great force multiplier.  But you do bring up a valid point that I see over and over: people who are predominantly on TS sometimes never read chat or look for marks.  

I'm not exactly sure how to remedy that, since I see chat and voice comms as both essential elements moving forward. 

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make in game chat better. few ideas off the top of my head

  • a transparent box with a single chat channel
  • sound notices for things like 911's
  • generally make it readable and while playing, imagine putting the chat box in center screen and still being able to play
  • use bino's to mark, example: bind them to "Q" aim, then set range with "W & S" like the rangefinders in game but they make map marks
  • make "target" channel the town that is targeted, might be like this already but marks are screwy with targets.

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I was doing the same thing many years ago as a player, how do you think I learned how to do all of this :) ?

Just to be clear, this post isn't intended to be a, "Hey look at me!"

More of, "Hey look what YOU can do too!" I hope some folks were able to take notes and learn, but just in case they didn't I wrote it down here. I don't know everything (and you don't have to either), but if you try and step up, you can get things done and THAT is when the game is at its best separating us from everyone else, hands down.

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It sure was organized on the Allied side last night. I played till about 2am central time zone and the Axis where just over run.

Multiple FMS on all sides of town with Armor and ATG to support. Once the spawnable was capped it was hard to get it back cause we could not get to the CP cause no matter which way you ran or turned you ran into a hostile force.

Axis underutilize the PPOs so far. Allies at least last night had the FMS surrounded by ATG bunkers so in turn it was hard to get at them . 

S!

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2 hours ago, major0noob said:

XOOM

  • Vice President & COO

*says attracting people to a OP is easy*

 

had some XO's in lancers try this in 95-110, easy enough to get fellow lancers going but nobody else spawned. HC even shut us down sometimes.

 

fricken allies need to stop making them behind town 1km (4min run!) away with impossible tank cover. in their defense the FMS takes ages to put up and our trucks apparently use jet engines.

 

 

screw teamspeak. i have it but hate using third party programs, if you keep relying on third party programs the *teamspeak OPS* will be too rare to even be considered as normal gameplay.

those guys NEVER read chat or mark too.

It takes effort and a lot of chat-spam (and some TS channel hopping), when my squad executes our para-fridays we generally attract 15-20 non-squad throughout the night.  Some only stay a mission or two, some follow us through as we hop from para-ground.  People look for action that is done in a coordinated manor (or at least appears to be), and will follow a plan (even a bad one).  Just need someone vocal to get the ball rolling and stuff usually happens. 

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Great going @XOOM. I don't want to be a stick in the mud but their needs some tweeking on the FMS so the Allies can drop them at a distance.. IE the 75mm HE round the Axis have and its ability to drop them at range. This is a real problem that requires much more attention by the allies to drop them.

 

Back to your point, organization at some level is a must, especially now with the FMS.  I am having a blast with them and primarily on defense. I have not been able to play lately however the last time I played we had an Axis tank column in bound and we had been on defense bearly saving towns for hours and underpop. However got the word on tanks inbound to a new Axis AO and I got out early with a engineer and set up a atg pit that cut the road and covered our spawn depot garage. As the tanks came in I was able to put up sand bags and 3 more atg pits near our spawn depot as a shield. The tanks where not able to stop our infantry from cutting our flag building to the spawn and our defensive atgs where able to get out of the depot and kill off some of the tanks.  A matty was able to come down the road and get cover between 2 of the atg pits which provided flanking cover from an 88 untill we managed to kill it with an AA gun. The matty held on killing EI and some axis tanks in the process. The axis tanks where not able to get a foot hold even after the matty was sapped. The axis did manage to cap the spawn with overwhelming numbers, however their tank cover was gone for the most part by then and our tanks where able to cut the road and we recapped. What was also a nice aspect of the wall of PPOs I constructed was that it also boxed in the Axis ATGs from getting out and flanking behind their spawnable to provide ATG support. They had to run a gauntlet with few outlets which where easily covered by infantry.  What was so awesome was that the defensive PPO set up was able to funnel the situation in our favor stopping the Axis OP in their tracks.

 

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As other have said, thank you for getting people motivated last night and the night before.

Yes your name/game status will draw people easier than an unknown, but it did illustrate your point well. The game was very enjoyable, hopefully on both sides, once the Allies started working together as a force. The difficulty being that as an unknown there is a lot of time/effort/work to become a known name that people will listen to. Squads will sit in their own channels, or not on TS at all, do their own OPs because there is no faith in the unknown leader, and time is valuable.

Hopefully the brief glimpse last night will spark some new leadership from within the Allied side.

 

@B2K Do you folks still do the para Fridays? I'm always looking for some organized action. 

Anyone know if there is a listing of days/times where groups do open activities in game? Maybe if these events were more widely known we could get more players showing up to them which could hopefully snowball into longer events.

Potentially an ingame interface tab to regularly list upcoming events? Players/squads could submit information to be vetted by CRS or community volunteers, then it gets posted? I realize there is the forums but from what I recall years ago, a very small percentage of the playerbase ever comes to the forums.

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XOOM, I was on that attack and you did some great comms to keep everyone focused. We did take 3 towns all with hard fighting then we lost  momentum trying to recap Vliss with paras. All great fun.

But (really sorry there is one). We lost those towns a few hours later with more axis capping a single depot than we had defenders playing allied. Each town fell in around 30 minutes with no real fighting. Please do something about this asap. It's not healthy for my fun or your wallet. 3+ vs 1 is not a great experience once or twice but I could live with it if it was a rare thing. It certainly isn't sustainable if it's every after fight across at least one third of the day.  

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Any news on development of organisational abilities, such as additional chat channels, map annotations, global messages, chat channel repeating macros etc?

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Wow who would have thought that feeding your players action keeps them online while passive-aggressive nonsense like sitting on AOs to push your team to defense depresses population? 

 

Regarding better comms, Planetside 2 has voice and text chat integrated at the proximity, squad, platoon, region and even an isolated faction-wide leader chat reserved for squad leaders... and the little Napoleons still get /ignored and muted. Better systems won't fix bad leadership.

 

 

 

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A FN MEN...No magic wand?

You mean you had time to set stuff up and organize because you didnt have to run the map?

Kind of jives with what i said in another post

Quote

There is no reason that players in TZ 3 from either side cant recruit and organize themselves into a squad that could grow into a force to be reckoned with and counter population imbalances. Why do you think large squads like 3pzg and KGW were so successful? It was because players looked forward to logging in and finding their squads' leaders providing organized gameplay. Squad nights were something people looked forward to.

 

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Now just imagine if Xoom posted in Allied secure that he was going to run another OP at X:XX EST tomorrow night?

How many players do you think would move stuff around to get online and join in on the fun? KInd of like it was back in the day when officers posted OPORDS. The playerbase got excited and motivated to log in. Shouldnt be long before we have 30 and 40 man armor columns going again..Hopefully guys like Jsilec, CE and possibly Engine2 make an appearance again soon. 

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1 hour ago, david01 said:

Wow who would have thought that feeding your players action keeps them online while passive-aggressive nonsense like sitting on AOs to push your team to defense depresses population? 

 

Regarding better comms, Planetside 2 has voice and text chat integrated at the proximity, squad, platoon, region and even an isolated faction-wide leader chat reserved for squad leaders... and the little Napoleons still get /ignored and muted. Better systems won't fix bad leadership.

 

 

 

Wouldn't disagree, but to lead in this game means leading in spite of the systems, rather then within the systems 

 

As Gagamel put very eloquently, when the best tool in your comms kit is the enemy boat mark, you're pushing the boulder uphill 

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6 hours ago, stankyus said:

Great going @XOOM. I don't want to be a stick in the mud but their needs some tweeking on the FMS so the Allies can drop them at a distance.. IE the 75mm HE round the Axis have and its ability to drop them at range. This is a real problem that requires much more attention by the allies to drop them.

The round you're referring to will not impact the FMS nearly as bad in our coming update, 1.35.6.4. This is known and already addressed. We're wrapping up some more work prior to releasing it, hang in there!

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3 hours ago, david01 said:

Wow who would have thought that feeding your players action keeps them online while passive-aggressive nonsense like sitting on AOs to push your team to defense depresses population? 

Regarding better comms, Planetside 2 has voice and text chat integrated at the proximity, squad, platoon, region and even an isolated faction-wide leader chat reserved for squad leaders... and the little Napoleons still get /ignored and muted. Better systems won't fix bad leadership.

We have announced our intent to implement integrated voice communications into World War II Online. I will do everything I can to see that come through, and to empower combat leadership more tools in their arsenal to organize players better and direct troops where they need to go, while still giving players the opt-in/out capability.

When 1.36 comes, true combat leaders will lead the day, we need them to start getting prepared and nurture their growth asap.

Encourage, try not to discourage or belittle, and you can help them grow faster.

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4 hours ago, Silky said:

Any news on development of organisational abilities, such as additional chat channels, map annotations, global messages, chat channel repeating macros etc?

We're working on this. We're looking at the UI and more tools for combat leaders as I mentioned above and/or the more critical thing that outweighs EVERYTHING, is the integrated voice comms (IVC).

If we can get IVC, the game will change for ever, and for the better. INSTANT improvement on game play for veteran and new players. It will increase retention globally and make organization a much more viable option, immediately. 

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That's all well and good, but what about the times when one side or the other simply has a shortage of leadership Or maybe the times zones are such that they are just underpopulated and unable to overcome the number swings we have in game. for whatever reason it will happen to both sides.  So We still need a automatic system that will allow the side that's in bad shape to still have a chance.

Hate to beat a dead horse here but again today I saw the allies defending 3 AO's with 9 defenders in one, 4 in the other and 0 in the 3rd.   they could not hold one town with that and no matter you how you shake a " see what you guys can do together stick" you still won't/don't always have the leaders,tools,experienced players and numbers 24/7.

 We should address this problem the best we can before the game goes live on steam.

I started paying this game in 2002 under a different in game name and I always would have liked to see better leadership tools other than shouting on TS.

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15 minutes ago, cooperhawk said:

That's all well and good, but what about the times when one side or the other simply has a shortage of leadership Or maybe the times zones are such that they are just underpopulated and unable to overcome the number swings we have in game. for whatever reason it will happen to both sides.  So We still need a automatic system that will allow the side that's in bad shape to still have a chance.

Hate to beat a dead horse here but again today I saw the allies defending 3 AO's with 9 defenders in one, 4 in the other and 0 in the 3rd.   they could not hold one town with that and no matter you how you shake a " see what you guys can do together stick" you still won't/don't always have the leaders,tools,experienced players and numbers 24/7.

 We should address this problem the best we can before the game goes live on steam.

I started paying this game in 2002 under a different in game name and I always would have liked to see better leadership tools other than shouting on TS.

I'm an allied player and have played for 13 years. I find it very hard to believe that the game had 3 AOs and only 13 allied players on. There must have been another very large attack going on by the allies and several pilots in the air. IF that is truly the case, I stand corrected and would agree something is screwed up big time.

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I came on after this and we were defending. Some Navy had no fallbacks at all. While we were trying to figure out what to do, some guy I don't really know came into HC chat on TS and started berating us because:

1. We weren't in his squad's chatroom entertaining them
2. They were bored. He never really said why, because we had an AO and a DO.
3. He started saying that people were logging because XOOM had made the night fun and we were failing to do that because we were playing map chess instead of hanging out in their TS room with them.

Someone has to actually run the map....

He made it almost impossible for us (at least me) to try to focus on what we had to do to try to get things moved and a better AO set up. What we could have done in 5-10 minutes took probably twice that because it's really hard to get things done while somebody is busting your chops.

BTW I will argue with anyone who says that all that TZ3 Allied needs to do is 'recruit'. You can't recruit people who are not in the game. Period. If there are 30 people who play in a TZ and 20 plus want to play on one side, that's pretty much all you can do with that group of players. One issue that Allied also has is that a lot of those who do log on during TZ3 belong to Squads whose majority do not play at that time, but they are not interested in joining a TZ3 Squad. You cannot form a Squad out of people who belong to other squads and don't want to quit those Squads, and you can't force a squad to play in TZ3 if they don't want to.

PLEASE PLEASEPLEASE stop posting things that intimate that Allied lowpop during TZ3 is the fault of the few people who DO log on. PLAYERS decide when and if they play during a particular time. Of those players who enjoy playing Allied, very few can play during TZ3 on a regular basis. Those are the facts. Another fact is that when people recruit for the game, they rarely recruit a friend to play the other side, so any TZ3 recruiting is, statistically speaking, more probable to add even MORE players to the more populated TZ3 side.  If we COULD get more players, and if we COULD get those players to form an organized squad, maybe we would stand a chance against the 250 Hispana, the Whips and other Squads hat the Axis can field during TZ3. Until the day comes that we CAN, please stop saying its our fault!

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