XOOM

Organization wins battles

52 posts in this topic

2 hours ago, stankyus said:

I'm an allied player and have played for 13 years. I find it very hard to believe that the game had 3 AOs and only 13 allied players on. There must have been another very large attack going on by the allies and several pilots in the air. IF that is truly the case, I stand corrected and would agree something is screwed up big time.

That large attack you mentioned was about 4 allies on offense.   Don't take my word for it, come see how few players there really are in auro peak time on the allied side.  The Thing I don't understand is the amount of AO's available hasn't changed even with this few players on the allied side.  Just look at the missions of People spawned in for a bit (all three branches) and you will see.

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Here is an idea for better organization: why not let your soldiers avatar say emotes!

 

For example allowing our soldiers to make quick comments:

:Move to cover

:I need ammo

Move out

Take cover.

 

Allowing our avatars to at least say something can help out with organization.  I have to say this game rocks :)  can't wait for steam :D

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11 hours ago, cooperhawk said:

That large attack you mentioned was about 4 allies on offense.   Don't take my word for it, come see how few players there really are in auro peak time on the allied side.  The Thing I don't understand is the amount of AO's available hasn't changed even with this few players on the allied side.  Just look at the missions of People spawned in for a bit (all three branches) and you will see.

I primarily play TZ3 low pop. I know what 3 AOs look like. We had 2 AOs last night when I logged out, we still had about 20 players on.

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16 hours ago, stankyus said:

I primarily play TZ3 low pop. I know what 3 AOs look like. We had 2 AOs last night when I logged out, we still had about 20 players on.

You just made the point without knowing it.  20 players with a possible 4 AO's placed (2 on each side) means FIVE PLAYERS per AO.  And so I ask you, does that constitute a real battle in your mind ?

Or a real flaw in the game mechanics relative to the underpopulated side?  Sure the outcome will be the same(for both sides) but it will be earned more with 1 AO each with these numbers.  now try to imagine new players spawning in and dealing with this.

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9 hours ago, cooperhawk said:

You just made the point without knowing it.  20 players with a possible 4 AO's placed (2 on each side) means FIVE PLAYERS per AO.  And so I ask you, does that constitute a real battle in your mind ?

Or a real flaw in the game mechanics relative to the underpopulated side?  Sure the outcome will be the same(for both sides) but it will be earned more with 1 AO each with these numbers.  now try to imagine new players spawning in and dealing with this.

Been suggesting AOs set by the opposite population for some time.

 

Other option is AO count by lowest side's pop.

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3 hours ago, Kilemall said:

Been suggesting AOs set by the opposite population for some time.

 

Other option is AO count by lowest side's pop.

AO's have been based on the underpopulated side for at least a couple of months now.

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Xoom,  I will give you that we capped a few towns despite some pretty stiff resistance, and yes it was fun.  However, we were overpop, and more importantly 3 hours later our flags were drained, surrounded, and sent back to training.  That one town it took so long for us to get control of our spawn area we lost nearly half an inf bde trying to hold it.  Didn't help that someone on the axis side was basically John Wick in the CP no matter how many people we had shooting at him.

I give you massive credit for 3 successful attacking OPs, the hardest thing to do in the game basically.  Yet it handed 2 of our flags to them on a silver platter once the low-pop superheroes hit their stride.  Then yesterday more or less the same thing happened, the low-pop cut off led to a successful Antwerp attack which is basically gg.

Not blaming you for trying, or blaming you for anything really... just sharing with you to see the big picture here.  It's hard to "get organized" day after day when this stuff happens on the regular from what I am hearing.  Same old story.

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@deride

He stated that Allies were overpop and turtling most of the day. The point was that organization wins battles which led to some players having fun and turned the tide of the battle for a period. A number of those players stayed online longer than they normally would have.

Low pop it really doesn't matter how much supply there is, or is not, if there is no one to use the equipment and no one to move it around the map. Towns are often taken in TZ3 with little to no effort on the attackers behalf. There has usually been a low pop (TZ3) issue, and it has gone both ways. I've been on both ends of the stick and it is a stark contrast to the battles that take place the rest of the day.

Honestly, I stopped caring about the map years and years ago. I just enjoy the battle at hand and try to help out where I can if someone is willing to lead.

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Right, and not disputing that.  I am simply saying that "being organized" is not easy to sustain under demoralizing circumstances.

 

When it comes to the low-pop solution, the only solution is more people on at all times.

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7 hours ago, XOOM said:

AO's have been based on the underpopulated side for at least a couple of months now.

Deosn't seem to be working, or at least is using something like a 1-2 hour sample period.

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9 hours ago, deride said:

Xoom,  I will give you that we capped a few towns despite some pretty stiff resistance, and yes it was fun.  However, we were overpop, and more importantly 3 hours later our flags were drained, surrounded, and sent back to training.  That one town it took so long for us to get control of our spawn area we lost nearly half an inf bde trying to hold it.  Didn't help that someone on the axis side was basically John Wick in the CP no matter how many people we had shooting at him.

I give you massive credit for 3 successful attacking OPs, the hardest thing to do in the game basically.  Yet it handed 2 of our flags to them on a silver platter once the low-pop superheroes hit their stride.  Then yesterday more or less the same thing happened, the low-pop cut off led to a successful Antwerp attack which is basically gg.

Not blaming you for trying, or blaming you for anything really... just sharing with you to see the big picture here.  It's hard to "get organized" day after day when this stuff happens on the regular from what I am hearing.  Same old story.

My whole area of focus was battles and to do the best we could. I don't take any offense to what you're saying os no worries :). 

Big picture, 1.36 is coming and will rid of this problem.  Massive cascade effects will be very hard to occur, and direct action is going to take priority.

I think it was a success in terms of educating folks on ways to get things going and make the game entirely enjoyable. 

2 hours ago, Kilemall said:

Deosn't seem to be working, or at least is using something like a 1-2 hour sample period.

We'll poke at it again to verify but it was very specific in the design we called for.

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9 hours ago, deride said:

Xoom,  I will give you that we capped a few towns despite some pretty stiff resistance, and yes it was fun.  However, we were overpop, and more importantly 3 hours later our flags were drained, surrounded, and sent back to training.  That one town it took so long for us to get control of our spawn area we lost nearly half an inf bde trying to hold it.  Didn't help that someone on the axis side was basically John Wick in the CP no matter how many people we had shooting at him.

I give you massive credit for 3 successful attacking OPs, the hardest thing to do in the game basically.  Yet it handed 2 of our flags to them on a silver platter once the low-pop superheroes hit their stride.  Then yesterday more or less the same thing happened, the low-pop cut off led to a successful Antwerp attack which is basically gg.

Not blaming you for trying, or blaming you for anything really... just sharing with you to see the big picture here.  It's hard to "get organized" day after day when this stuff happens on the regular from what I am hearing.  Same old story.

This isn't new. When axis euro squads were still around they would hold ops wed/sun like clockwork, they drained flags and nearly guaranteed US prime allies an easy corridor to attack and lots people on axis complained. HC still largely supported them though and the result was that win or lose we had lots of people online. At some point you have to make your players the priority.

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9 hours ago, XOOM said:

AO's have been based on the underpopulated side for at least a couple of months now.

With all due respect xoom, I invite you to look at the missions from time to time in low pop and when you see a few guys trying to hold off 25+ attacking then remember this post and ask yourself if if anything has changed with AO's and is this game you envision.  The reasons for the imbalance are not as important since they will always be there more or less. So come and see for yourself that nothing has changed here and needs looked at again, excluding weekends maybe. This WILL happen on both sides so maybe steam will fix the numbers a bit but you still need a automatic system that at least helps keep the balance and creates battles and insures things are earned, not exploited.

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11 minutes ago, cooperhawk said:

With all due respect xoom, I invite you to look at the missions from time to time in low pop and when you see a few guys trying to hold off 25+ attacking then remember this post and ask yourself if if anything has changed with AO's and is this game you envision.  The reasons for the imbalance are not as important since they will always be there more or less. So come and see for yourself that nothing has changed here and needs looked at again, excluding weekends maybe. This WILL happen on both sides so maybe steam will fix the numbers a bit but you still need a automatic system that at least helps keep the balance and creates battles and insures things are earned, not exploited.

We're going to look into and verify that the total number of available AO's are based on the underpopulated sides population. We did design it this way according to my design requirements, we need to be certain it's tested properly and working.

We understand that game balance, particularly when it comes to total AO's available and manpower levels, is an absolute essential component to maintaining a healthy game atmosphere.

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Well I can honestly say we held the line pretty good up until 0600 this morning when I had to log because of that sleep thing. Don't know how things went after that but we gave the axis hell for sure. The battle of caudry was awesome. My hat's off to axis attackers and to allied defenders.

Edited by nh3rd

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Sorry. Calling bull$hit on the whole "superior comms and organization wins battles" line.  Numbers win battles. NUMBERS WIN MAPS. The side with the most overpop will ALWAYS win maps.  Until that is fixed.... nothing will change.

As far as the AO's based on underpop side thing goes.  It's not working.

An odd thing I've been noticing... I'll join a Bgd. I'll see 2 or 3 missions posted. 1 of them shows that little population bar as full, which makes me assume there are at least 10 people logged in on that mission. I join the mission and it will only have 1 player on it... and he's not even spawned in. WTF? 

Bottom line... Until the overpop/underpop problem is fixed, this game will never improve. You can add all the eye candy , bells, whistles and bling you want to. Until the overpop/underpop problem is fixed...

this game is going no where. 

But... in the meantime... Organization DOES make for some short-term fun battles until the overpop overrules it. 

 

Edited by lipton

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There is no way to fix the overpop situation.  Do you think Steam players are going to join this game and wait around to play?  They will download, see the Axis is not available, join as a Frenchie and give up.  The Allied side is not exciting to some unless you always have the Americans playing.  No rip on Europeans, just the facts.  The French military doesnt have much hype behind it,

 

PPO are cool, but last night XOOM, you guys led me right to where you were attacking from.  I just had to sit and wait.  Dont know what town it was, but you killed me once, and I saw all of your PPO's and knew you all were coming from there.  Didnt take much to keep you out.

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I dont disagree that organised ops keeps players online.   

But what I find strange is that I played most of - my - day on the day you mention and not once did i see allies overpop.   I did not see you so  I know Im a different tz so when I was offline allies might have been overpop but that was certainly not most the day, i.e 24 hours. 

You guys must have the actual real numbers perhaps its time to reveal them then perhaps people might work together on how to tackle this problem?

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16 hours ago, zigi said:

You guys must have the actual real numbers perhaps its time to reveal them then perhaps people might work together on how to tackle this problem?

Is there any reason why these numbers aren't made available @XOOM?  I know old CRS was all hush-hush about everything so I never bothered asking then.  

But what's your logic about not making these numbers available?  Do you think it will be bad for the game if we have that knowledge?  

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29 minutes ago, capco said:

Is there any reason why these numbers aren't made available @XOOM?  I know old CRS was all hush-hush about everything so I never bothered asking then.  

But what's your logic about not making these numbers available?  Do you think it will be bad for the game if we have that knowledge?  

When it comes to numbers, this team is also keeping it close to the chest. We will never disclose those details because that's our business to worry about. There's no other explanation to offer.

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20 hours ago, lipton said:

Sorry. Calling bull$hit on the whole "superior comms and organization wins battles" line.  Numbers win battles. NUMBERS WIN MAPS. The side with the most overpop will ALWAYS win maps.  Until that is fixed.... nothing will change.

As far as the AO's based on underpop side thing goes.  It's not working.

An odd thing I've been noticing... I'll join a Bgd. I'll see 2 or 3 missions posted. 1 of them shows that little population bar as full, which makes me assume there are at least 10 people logged in on that mission. I join the mission and it will only have 1 player on it... and he's not even spawned in. WTF? 

Bottom line... Until the overpop/underpop problem is fixed, this game will never improve. You can add all the eye candy , bells, whistles and bling you want to. Until the overpop/underpop problem is fixed...

this game is going no where. 

But... in the meantime... Organization DOES make for some short-term fun battles until the overpop overrules it. 

 

I think numbers are vital (no doubt) and if organization hasn't reached a certain bar, then yes numbers take the day.

I monitored from when we first got started that night (which I wrote about) and the Allies were pretty significantly underpopulated. As time went on, those numbers balanced out, and then we actually had a slight overpop.

Organization does encourage the growth and retention of numbers on your side, and as you said has the added caveat of making things more enjoyable (fun). So, we need to work towards getting things more organized generally speaking so the game is more fun for everyone, because when you're outnumbered, organized forces with good comms does make that difference in turning the tide ~ and that's the key part.

As I've mentioned now probably a couple of times, we're going to poke at that "AO's based on the underpopulated side" logic to verify it's functioning as intended, or make other tweaks as necessary to ensure there's a fighting chance to the underpopulated side. 

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*** The Allied side is not exciting to some unless you always have the Americans playing.

Any chance of putting one USA division at map start, with no armor or semis?  Then, take the german 20th div and pull armor from it.  Be just 2 infantry divisions and maybe that would add a bit of incentive for allied side?

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Axis get a Stug, Allies get an M3 Stuart. Axis get the 09 with 20's, the Allies get BB's.  Axis get a shotgun, Allies get ... well, nothing in comparison.  

Axis get AF's near the front line. Axis get the MG34. Axis get the 75 HE round... and so on and so fourth... 

That's why the Axis typically start off a campaign with numbers. Then, it's just a snowball rolling downhill. 

When an Axis squad or 2 gets tired of winning, they go Allied and throw the balance to the Allied overpop side.... It's the cycle.  :popcorn:

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1 hour ago, lipton said:

Axis get a Stug, Allies get an M3 Stuart. Axis get the 09 with 20's, the Allies get BB's.  Axis get a shotgun, Allies get ... well, nothing in comparison.  

Axis get AF's near the front line. Axis get the MG34. Axis get the 75 HE round... and so on and so fourth... 

That's why the Axis typically start off a campaign with numbers. Then, it's just a snowball rolling downhill. 

When an Axis squad or 2 gets tired of winning, they go Allied and throw the balance to the Allied overpop side.... It's the cycle.  :popcorn:

Can I quote this in my signature?

 

Poetry.

 

Pure poetry.

Edited by vasduten1

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