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spaa

37 posts in this topic

5 hours ago, haupt said:

 

I'm a stuka pilot and the version we are getting is the version I've been hoping for.

Let me guess you saw those German reels and know of Hans Rudel... I was like you but then try it on WT.

And it's borderline useless and it will inefficient if well model:

- with two guns you have convergence which means you will most likely only hit with one gun

- your ammo is way too limit 12 rounds for each gun, MEANS you WILL SHOOT only 12 times!

- the RECOIL is Massive so you will make one shot trigger pull per pass

-  you also have HVAP shells which had no explosive filler

- the JU G1 is also much slower than the D3 and D5

-  you also are forced to fly at low altitudes aiming at your target this leaves way too expose to AA and SPAA

- not sure WW2ol models this well but at right angles 90º you can have overpenetration with 37mm and no penetration at lower angles you loose a 1/3 of the penetration at 60º

 

D-5 is what you probably want 2x 20mm and 1000kg of bombs possibly up to 1500kg in WT they allow the D3 to carry 3 500kgs bombs while the D5 only has x2 250kg and 1x 500kg think this might be more balance purposes. The D3-D5 would be for me the much needed Havoc  axis equivalent.

The fact that you have to model an entirely new round, new Gunpods with firing offset... seems it would make much more sense and be faster to just implement the D5 first.

 

@jwilly

WT is well reference and employees more than one historic researcher, just look at this article, the reference book was actually wrong and they contact Bovignon which forwarded the correct information..

http://warthunder.com/en/devblog/current/870/

The whirbelwind can be seen firing all 4 guns simultaneous in German reels on west europe so it was capable of doing so while the vehicle weight is 25 tons and the gun is right on the center, while the sd kfz 37mm flak gun is on the rear of the vehicle it only weights 11 tons and barrel protrudes so no need to calculate to understand it would be a more unstable platform.

I'm not sure about what you are saying of having 2 guns firing just at once, the company behind the 20mm AA contract was going was taken out of service and they manage to keep producing 20mm AA by having Quad 20mm plataform because of the ammount if was still effective at low flying targets.

As for shells bringing down aircraft much can be said about that what plane would be talking about from what direction are shells being fired, on the battlefield it's the about of fragsments that bring down an aircraft and anti-air cover was given by a multitude of weapons, I know German did study down B-27 and from pilot experience started adding 30mm guns to their planes but the US kept using their .50cal instead preferring to increase the firerate.

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On 2/6/2017 at 7:43 AM, pbveteran said:

Corrected for typos

Let me guess you saw those German reels and know of Hans Rudel... I was like you but then try it on WT.

And it's borderline useless and it will inefficient if well model:

- with two guns you have convergence which means you will most likely only hit with one gun

- your ammo is way too limit 12 rounds for each gun, MEANS you WILL SHOOT only 12 times!

- the RECOIL is Massive so you will make one shot trigger pull per pass

-  you also have HVAP shells which had no explosive filler

- the JU G1 is also much slower than the D3 and D5

-  you also are forced to fly at low altitudes aiming at your target this leaves way too expose to AA and SPAA

- not sure WW2ol models this well but at right angles 90º you can have overpenetration with 37mm and no penetration at lower angles you loose a 1/3 of the penetration at 60º

 

D-5 is what you probably want 2x 20mm and 1000kg of bombs possibly up to 1500kg in WT they allow the D3 to carry 3 500kgs bombs while the D5 only has x2 250kg and 1x 500kg think this might be more balance purposes. The D3-D5 would be for me the much needed Havoc  equivalent.

The fact that you have to model an entirely new round, new Gunpods with firing offset... seems it would be much slower to implement while the D5 would be faster and more useful.

 

@jwilly

WT is well referenced and employees more than one historic researcher, just look at this article, the reference book was actually wrong and they contact Bovignon which forwarded the correct information.. the recoil is not as detail as in this game but works well and is not buggy.

http://warthunder.com/en/devblog/current/870/

The whirbelwind can be seen firing all 4 guns simultaneous in German reels on western europe so it was capable of doing so, the vehicle weight is 25 tons and the gun is right on the center, while the sd kfz 37mm flak gun is on the rear of the vehicle it only weights 11 tons and barrel protrudes so no need to calculate to understand it would be a more unstable platform.

I'm not sure about what you are saying of having 2 guns firing just at once is true or widely used, the 20mm AA contract was going to end but reinhmetal manage to keep producing the 20mm AA by developing the Quad 20mm plataform because of the amount of shells it fire if was still effective at low flying targets, so not using the 4 guns at once would negate the advantage the 20mm Flak 38 brought and in Warthunder you fire all 4x Guns then reload.

As for shells bringing down aircraft much can be said about that what plane would we be talking about from what direction are shells being fired, on the battlefield it's the amount fragments that bring down an aircraft and anti-air cover was given by a multitude of weapons, I know German did study downed Bombers and from pilot experience started adding the 30mm guns to their planes but this studies were between fighters/interceptors shooting down bombers also the US kept using their .50cal instead preferring to increase the firerate, my guess is that the 20cm guns especially the flak 38 were very effective against low flying aircraft ground support aircraft but for medium bombers and above or planes not engaged in ground support was mostly useless.

 

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On ‎2‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 0:57 PM, pbveteran said:

I thought we were over this god awful not historical and unbalance vehicles.

This german SPAA will be useless.. There is always at least one EI rifle around you everytime, just another 88 that can't kill tanks.

 

Kinda like the Germans having the only armed and armored troop carrier.. would you not agree?

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The allied SPAA gunner is exposed too, so what's the difference? 

Big deal, after you kill the gunner it's useless, unless you think wandering around the battlefield like a tractor means something. 

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19 hours ago, Mosizlak said:

The allied SPAA gunner is exposed too, so what's the difference? 

Big deal, after you kill the gunner it's useless, unless you think wandering around the battlefield like a tractor means something. 

With an alive driver can you drive around not only killing people but also give intel. A truck is much easier to kill off making it real dead.

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1 hour ago, ArvidHorn said:

With an alive driver can you drive around not only killing people but also give intel. A truck is much easier to kill off making it real dead.

Would u consider this to be a major advantage or a small one?

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On 2/5/2017 at 11:43 PM, pbveteran said:

The D3-D5 would be for me the much needed Havoc  axis equivalent.

the Ju-88 is that plane. no version of the JU-87 is equivalent to any version of the A-20 airframe.

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3 hours ago, stankyus said:

Would u consider this to be a major advantage or a small one?

That's pretty much a joke...can drive around giving intel LOL. 

Some people will claim they are disadvantaged at every turn...woe is me woe is me lol. 

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1 hour ago, Mosizlak said:

That's pretty much a joke...can drive around giving intel LOL. 

Some people will claim they are disadvantaged at every turn...woe is me woe is me lol. 

yup, even in a tank when I lose my turret crew, I spend time rolling around handing out intel of all the ebil germans positions.

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Regarding the new Axis SPAA, here are my thoughts...and I'm quoting a comment someone left on the Indiegogo site, where I just threw a few bucks to the 2017 Fundraiser :

"The German’s NEVER had a Bofors-on-a-half-track. They had a Sd.Kfz.7/2 half-track with a FlaK 36 on it. Banging a Bofors on a Sd.Kfz.7/2 is totally ahistorical, and further weakens WWIIOL’s claim to be a serious, historically accurate, multi-player sim."

Now I TOTALLY understand that the decision was based on current and limited Dev resources (HATCH, don't get me wrong...I think you've done an amazing job) and while I don't agree that these Frankenstein half-measures to introduce new weapons and vehicles will "seriously weaken" the game's claim to be historically accurate, I DO hope that it was truly a "stop gap" measure AND that this particular SPAA will continue to evolve toward something more historically representative in-game.

 

EZ

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On 2/7/2017 at 8:27 PM, stankyus said:

Kinda like the Germans having the only armed and armored troop carrier.. would you not agree?

Balanced by the allies have the only mobile anti tank gun capable truck ( Wacky ), Not Red vs Blue 

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