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madeuce65

New TDs post-Steam release: Marder 38t, Valentine AT, M8A1

15 posts in this topic

Here's my wish list for some new Tier 1-2 TDs post-STEAM release.

German Marder 38t

The Marder could be basically modified from the existing Pz 38 (t) in the game.

Image result for marder 38t

 

British Valentine AT

Image result for valentine at

 

 

French  / American M8A1

Again, this TD could basically basically modified from the existing M3A3 Stuart tank in the game.

  Image result for m8a1 tank

 

Thoughts?

 

 

Edited by madeuce65

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These would be new toys. There are lots of options for new toys.

These particular new toys wouldn't work any differently, gameplay-wise, than what's already in-game. They'd arrive mid-campaign and would have relatively powerful guns, but minimal armor so they'd die to the first good hit. Same same.

The question is: will a few new toys of this kind by themselves lead to an expansion of the customer base?

My guess is no. What's needed to attract customers that aren't already here is game evolutions that add new dimensions to gameplay.

New terrain with steeper grades, smaller features, and higher-bit-count textures would do that.

Replacing the single-huge-damage-model building models with new models that have damage models divided up into sections about the size of the damage volume from a 75mm or 88mm HE shell would do that.

Maybe adding flammability, fire weapons and fire damage to the game would do that.

Maybe adding zoned weather to the game would do that...so it could be raining and muddy in Dinant while it's sunny and clear in Antwerp.

***

New toys are great. They however should be supplements, turned out with whatever resources are available after the Big Project of each patch.

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I believe they've stated that "foundation" work as described above will not be implemented in this version of the game. 

You will have to wait for WWII Online Version 2 to be released. I'm thinking in the year... NEVER GUNNA HAPPEN !!

So, I would love to see new toys asap please. 

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On 2/16/2017 at 11:07 PM, jwilly said:

These would be new toys. There are lots of options for new toys.

These particular new toys wouldn't work any differently, gameplay-wise, than what's already in-game. ... New toys are great. They however should be supplements, turned out with whatever resources are available after the Big Project of each patch.

All good points, but with due respect I never suggested these toys should take priority over foundation improvement.  It's simply a wish list...nothing more, nothing less.  Personally, I'd just like to see some TD development parity with all the other toys we've gotten over the years - i.e. different variants of the "same, same" Crusader, Sherman, Churchill, Pz III, Pz IV, Spit, Hurri, and 109 (no less than FIVE!) models.  I mean, I wouldn't exactly be suggesting a precedent here.   We have just 3 TDs in the game.  THREE.  And only ONE of them is Allied.

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You say 3 TD's  by TD's I assume Tank Destroyers. 

I count 2  , Stug3g and M10 which is the 3rd?

If you say 3b that is an infantry support tank just as the 4d is.

Some players have just become very proficient with the 3b and destroying tanks.

But I do agree with your choices up top. More toys are always nice. As much as I would like to see the map grow. But CRS can't right now even bring back the old bunkers till they work on whatever they have to do. Kinda odd having something that used to be on the map not work all of a sudden anymore.

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On 2/17/2017 at 1:23 PM, lipton said:

I believe they've stated that "foundation" work as described above will not be implemented in this version of the game. 

You will have to wait for WWII Online Version 2 to be released. I'm thinking in the year... NEVER GUNNA HAPPEN !!

So, I would love to see new toys asap please. 

I was thinking of Steam and improving the most glaring limitations of game as possible.

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46 minutes ago, dre21 said:

You say 3 TD's  by TD's I assume Tank Destroyers. 

I count 2  , Stug3g and M10 which is the 3rd?

If you say 3b that is an infantry support tank just as the 4d is.

Some players have just become very proficient with the 3b and destroying tanks.

But I do agree with your choices up top. More toys are always nice. As much as I would like to see the map grow. But CRS can't right now even bring back the old bunkers till they work on whatever they have to do. Kinda odd having something that used to be on the map not work all of a sudden anymore.

Two TDS -- not three, you're right...technically, the IIIB is an assault tank that Wiki has lumped in with Tank Destroyers.  Anyway, all the more reason to expand this vehicle category!  Someday...hopefully sooner than later, if ever.

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On 2/16/2017 at 9:52 PM, madeuce65 said:
Quote

 

Tier 1-2 TDs

German Marder 38t

The Marder could be basically modified from the existing Pz 38 (t) in the game.

Image result for marder 38t

 

Per the old rules, the Russian 76.2mm gun isn't game eligible...if the Germans haven't won yet in France, obviously they couldn't yet have attacked wherever the same units that fought in France, historically fought next...so for T2 availability, CRS would have to model the SdKfz 138 ausf. H model with the KwK 75mm gun.

Quote

 

British Valentine AT

Image result for valentine at

 

At least by the old rules, this design wouldn't be game eligible. It was only a single design exercise, and never fought. The designers realized halfway through that they could fit the same gun into an actual tank turret on the same chassis, so why build a much less protected gun carriage?

Also, the six pounder isn't very comparable to the KwK 75 in the Marder. 

If it was acceptable to postpone the set until T3, the British vehicle could be the Archer...much more comparable in gun power to the KwK 75. This also would allow the German vehicle to be the better-protected, lower SdKfz 138 ausf. M.

Or, in T2, the British vehicle could be the Churchill 3 inch gun carriage.

Quote

 

French  / American M8A1

Again, this TD could basically basically modified from the existing M3A3 Stuart tank in the game.

  Image result for m8a1 tank

Thoughts?

 

This vehicle as well--the M8A1 Motor Gun Carriage with the low velocity 75mm gun, as opposed to the even lower velocity M8 Howitzer Gun Carriage--also wouldn't be game eligible under the old rules, since it was cancelled during development due to the M18 project offering much greater mobility and a much better gun. 

The M8A1 GMC would have been a very poor performing tank destroyer, with a completely unsuitable gun for that role. At the cost of having to model a new hull/chassis, the Hellcat would provide in-game performance much more comparable to the Marder and whatever the British would get.

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In the interests of having more real french tanks in the game I'd propose the following TD option for france.

 

The SAu 40 - on right.

somua.jpg

Based on the SOUMA S35, the SAu 40 was to originally be armed with the 75mm APX gun -as seen on the prototype- but due to issues with the armament, it was decided to use the 47mm APX gun instead. 72 47mm SA 37 armed SAu 40s were ordered, but none were produced due to the capitulation.

While it never saw mass production, I feel it would make a nice addition seeing as France actually ordered them in number and would have fielded them had she not lost, and would help add more french armour to french armour brigades.

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Under the original CRS rule, French equipment that was ordered...an actual purchase order was issued...is game eligible.

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Marder III Ausf. H with the Kwk 75mm gun, correct -- but nevertheless mounted on the 38t chassis.  Still relatively easy to modify  from the in-game tank, no?

Valentine AT - too bad it never saw action -- good to know.  What about converting the M10 Wolverine to the British M10 Achilles?  Not sure the 17-pounder is even modeled in the game though...that would have to be done from scratch, I guess.  Lots of work creating ballistics, penetration values, etc.

Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-299-1818-05%2C_No

 

Or maybe converting the in-game Vickers Mk VI to a Mk V and adding a 2-pounder.  Any evidence to suggest this variant ever saw combat?

9999834cb36ct.jpg

 

I like Muromachi's idea to introduce the SAu 40 for the French TD.  Though with the shorter 75 mm APX mle. 1938, it would probably mirror the StuG IIIB more as an assault tank than a true TD.  Not sure when the longer, tank-killing 75 mm AC SA44 gun was added.  Since the SAu 40 was developed from the S-35 tank in-game, this would definitely make converting it to a TD easier.  Here's what I don't get: if rules are rules, then why is CRS introducing a German HT with a mounted 40mm Bofors (instead of the 3,7mm Flak 36)?  Completely ahistorical, to the best of my knowledge.

  Related image

 

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IIRC, Scotsman has information that some of the ~50 units built were used in combat in the Italian campaign. This unit was the subject of discussions much like this one in prior years, and my recollection is that we concluded it was eligible.

Edited by jwilly
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4 hours ago, madeuce65 said:

Marder III Ausf. H with the Kwk 75mm gun, correct -- but nevertheless mounted on the 38t chassis.  Still relatively easy to modify  from the in-game tank, no?

Yes.

Quote

What about converting the M10 Wolverine to the British M10 Achilles?

Often suggested. Could be done, but it'd provide only an incremental improvement. I'd guess it's likely that the Firefly would be modeled instead.

Quote

Not sure the 17-pounder is even modeled in the game though...

Currently in game in towed form.

Quote

 

Or maybe converting the in-game Vickers Mk VI to a Mk V and adding a 2-pounder.  Any evidence to suggest this variant ever saw combat?

9999834cb36ct.jpg

 

No evidence that I'm aware of. The BEF used Vickers B and C in France, and A9/10/13, and a few Matilda A11/12.

The Belgians had several T-series TDs/SPGs, some of which had Vickers chassis lineage, but none were armed with the two pounder.

Quote

 

I like Muromachi's idea to introduce the SAu 40 for the French TD.  Though with the shorter 75 mm APX mle. 1938, it would probably mirror the StuG IIIB more as an assault tank than a true TD.  Not sure when the longer, tank-killing 75 mm AC SA44 gun was added.  Since the SAu 40 was developed from the S-35 tank in-game, this would definitely make converting it to a TD easier. 

  Related image

 

Perhaps the best modeling choice for the SAu 40 would be the gun SOMUA expected to use as of June 1940, the SAMle 1937 long 47mm AT gun. It's already modeled, and a pretty decent AT gun for 1940. Any other historical choice would require modeling.

I'm all-in for any of the almost-produced, intended-to-be-fielded French tracked weapons of 1940-41-42...S40, R40, B1ter,  Lorraine gun carriage, Lorraine 39 APC, Panhard 201, G tank. 

Quote

Here's what I don't get: if rules are rules, then why is CRS introducing a German HT with a mounted 40mm Bofors (instead of the 3,7mm Flak 36)?  Completely ahistorical, to the best of my knowledge.

Ahistorical but similar, and practical to accomplish right now in time for the Steam launch, but modeling the FlaK 36/41 would not be. Our expectation is that later it'll be swapped out, once the modeling resources are available.  

Edited by jwilly
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