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World War II Online is a Massively Multiplayer Online First Person Shooter based in Western Europe between 1939 and 1943. Through land, sea, and air combat using a ultra-realistic game engine, combined with a strategic layer, in the largest game world ever created - We offer the best WWII simulation experience around.

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F2P feedback - why I wouldn't pay for this

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blakeh

Why do people think this is anti axis?

mg 34 or bren or the french lmg-- regardless, hip firing is not realistic.  Has anyone even wondered where your left hand would go to provide any stability to fire it?

Someone mentioned the M-60 and the difficulties with that-- at least it has a place to put your left hand to hold it firm without burning your hand on the barrel.

There is no forward hand grip on any of the this weapons-- they are fired from the prone position with a bipod and with the left hand on top of the mg about the pistol grip to provide stability.  

The other thing that annoys me is the STEN gun with the hand on the mag-- these things were notorious for jamming and holding the mag firm while the smg is bucking and shaking is certainly only going to result in more mis-feeds.  No self respecting Brit soldier would fire it that way.

 

 

 

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imded
On ‎5‎/‎7‎/‎2017 at 0:10 PM, jwilly said:

The "accuracy" of a model depends on how it interacts with its environment. The terrain tiles have separate drag factors for off-road movement by wheeled and tracked objects. The wheeled object drag factor is much too low...zero for non-replacement tiles, AFAIK...and is not applied in an individual-vehicle-ground-pressure way.  

I did a test one time, a couple of years ago on the LMG for ALL sides, free hand holding it.

Axis LMG at 10m was in a circle less than 1m and the Allies was in an area of 3m

At 50m again the axis weapon was far superior. Etc.

I reported it and had had screen shot proof.

SUDDENLY nothing happened. and I suspect this go around will be the same.

BTW, this held true with all firing positions. Axis have a far superior weapon in this particular case.

As for using LMGs to clear a building from the INSIDE, should be curtailed in some way. It is a 2 person crewed weapon.

 

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lipton

LoL.  Axis crack me up how they start listing every single thing they perceive as an imbalance in favor of the Allies every time their LMG comes up.  "Pleeeeeze don't take away my crutch."

Axis Whine Brigade in full force on this one. If all their 16 year long Whines were true, I'm surprised they EVER won a campaign. LoL

Edited by lipton

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blakeh

I actually don't think the mg 34 gives the Axis as much advantage as people think it does--- in the hands of an honest player it is certainly challenging, but that is because it operates as intended- providing very fast, heavy and accurate fire on target, which is realistic.   What is not modelled in the game accurately is the requirement to change out the barrel after 150 rounds or so and the heavy load of carrying enough ammunition to feed it firing. Also an LMG can be deployed far too fast in this game.  But there is only so much you can do.  I would not change that. 

There are advantages to the BREN gun's lower rate of fire-- you can control your rounds on target better and not waste as many shots-- i find most mg-34 gunners use a full mag for every kill.  It is just too easy to fire off the entire mag in one shot.

 

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lipton

In real life, or at least when watching videos... it takes approx 10 - 15 seconds to reload an MG34 when using the 50rd drum. You can change a BREN mag in just a few seconds. 

edit: it would be impossible to reload an MG34 while walking.

Edited by lipton

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jwilly

Not that anyone thinks of me as unbiased...I've been told multiple times by folks committed to both sides that I'm biased for the other side, so there you go...but I'd remind those who think of this as a nerf-one-side thread that:

1. CRS always, from Day One to now, has been committed to keeping the game at the same 50:50 overall lethality balance point, even though all of the game weapons and vehicles are different from each other in capabilities and effectiveness.

What that means is, if a change is made to how one of Side X's weapons that makes it generate fewer kills in practice...whatever the reason why...then CRS will make adjustments to bring the game back to balance.

2. The OP may have focused solely on the LMGs, but I'm pretty sure that Xoom's comment about their wanting to make adjustments if necessary and practical to stay in their "realism niche" are in regard to everything in the game. And, I'm also sure that, since not everything can be changed at once, any changes they make will be scheduled so that they don't cause any one side to get too far away from balance.

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lipton

^^^ This ^^^  Trudat

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major0noob

why the hell are my posts getting deleted while side bias strawman whine trolls litter this thread?

deleted:

i asked imdead to retest the LMG's for a old inf data thread

Edited by major0noob

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jwilly

You appear to have asked that over in the (unfortunately duplicated) thread in Barracks.

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B2K
11 minutes ago, major0noob said:

why the hell are my posts getting deleted while side bias strawman whine trolls litter this thread?

deleted:

i asked imdead to retest the LMG's for a old inf data thread

You mean this?  

mind taking 20min out of your day to re-test and provide screenshots for this thread?

 

hatch said he'd look into issues in the thread, it's more than they've said for other complaints.

compared to most other complaints, this thread has a issue format and data backing up any issues as well as real life examples.

From this thread?

Still there and unmolseted as far as I can tell... 

 

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major0noob

uug thanks, my bad they're both the same and imdead commented the same thing on each :-P

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Birdman26

It isn't unrealistic to fire from the hip, it is just extremely inaccurate and highly discouraged because of its in accuracy due to recoil. It can also be very dangerous and harmful to the shooter him/herself and other bystanders and friendlies.

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david01
1 hour ago, birdman26 said:

It isn't unrealistic to fire from the hip, it is just extremely inaccurate and highly discouraged because of its in accuracy due to recoil. It can also be very dangerous and harmful to the shooter him/herself and other bystanders and friendlies.

In this game infantry routinely engage each other at distances of 1-15m and so hipfire is one of the main attributes of a weapon. Spawns are adjacent to the objective, the objective is a tiny two-story building, and the objective takes minutes to capture. Extreme close-quarters battle is practically mandatory. CRS either doesn't know how or doesn't have to the resources to move buildings around and maybe create some space for tactics.

 

If this were a realism-focused FPS then hipfire, especially LMG hipfire would be a fringe activity only effective in a few rare situations. If this were an arcade FPS hipfire would be balanced with a larger COF or reduced player movement or something. Since the game adopts either label depending on who and how many are complaining (quibble over K/D ratios while SMG bullets fly at angles out of the barrel and armored vehicles outnumber LMGs in an infantry brigade) rather than being consistent you have a very slow paced WW2 simulation with ridiculously powerful hipfire rambos that defy reality.

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E7usn

I really don't thing the major issue here is the hip firing of LMG in so much as RUNNING and hip firing LMG's accurately.


It's one thing to fire a LMG from the hip standing still that can be replicated some what IRL. But to run around and accurately fire a LMG from the hip is simply not  accurate.

Hell even Rambo stood still when he hip fired his M60 and mowed down people <_<.

I had a Axis LMG run into a CP and mow down me and the entire team (4 people) all while running around and firing from the hip. It was like a SMG with a high capacity mag.

It's imbalanced and anyone with out side blinders would see that. ALL LMG's need to be looked at. 
 

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petie
1 hour ago, E7usn said:

I really don't thing the major issue here is the hip firing of LMG in so much as RUNNING and hip firing LMG's accurately.


It's one thing to fire a LMG from the hip standing still that can be replicated some what IRL. But to run around and accurately fire a LMG from the hip is simply not  accurate.

Hell even Rambo stood still when he hip fired his M60 and mowed down people <_<.

I had a Axis LMG run into a CP and mow down me and the entire team (4 people) all while running around and firing from the hip. It was like a SMG with a high capacity mag.

It's imbalanced and anyone with out side blinders would see that. ALL LMG's need to be looked at. 
 

Go axis, grab an axis LMG and try firing accurately with it whilst running. or even static from hip.

It's not accurate, the only advantage is it's 50 round capacity, it's all spray and prey, and because of the high ROF mixed with high capacity = lots of bullets in a small area, generally means people are going to die. Accuracy other than pointing in the general direction doe s not come into it.

In normal circumstances it would ricochet and probably kill the operator in real life but as there is no ricochet in game there is no danger to one's self.

 

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brady

remember that scean  from "lock stock and two smoking barrels" the girl with the Bren...

 

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petie
16 hours ago, imded said:

I did a test one time, a couple of years ago on the LMG for ALL sides, free hand holding it.

Axis LMG at 10m was in a circle less than 1m and the Allies was in an area of 3m

At 50m again the axis weapon was far superior. Etc.

I reported it and had had screen shot proof.

SUDDENLY nothing happened. and I suspect this go around will be the same.

BTW, this held true with all firing positions. Axis have a far superior weapon in this particular case.

As for using LMGs to clear a building from the INSIDE, should be curtailed in some way. It is a 2 person crewed weapon.

 

Just tested this and all pretty much the same 90% of shots landing within less than 1 meter diameter at 10m range on all sides LMG.

at 50m range I found axis LMG was slightly worse for grouping than the french LMG but on par with the Bren, but axis would still be superior as it was in real life due to it's high ROF and higher Magazine, but at 50m hip firing is not that widely used. 

 

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lipton

Boggles the mind that anyone would defend hip firing LMGs while running around (and up stairs) as acceptable, much less anywhere near reality.

And don't even think about reloading a drum (or magazine), while holding the weapon with one hand AND while standing up. Much less doing all that while running around.  Not possible.

This is something that has been a problem and people have been EXTREMELY vocal about for 15 years.  

 

 

 

 

And if I really wunna rile some peeps up.... Let's get side specific and talk about the German Shotgun  :popcorn:

Edited by lipton

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optik

David was on the correct track, there is a distinct lack of tactical opportunity for weapons to be utilized correctly and accurately, the main focus will be on inf as it is the base of the game but i propose the following:

1- Start work on town/city buildings. Make each one enterable with windows. (It increases positions to hold and fire from, making setups and area control more important, right now everything is street level funnels. Many years ago the city blocks as they are now had destroyed states with beams and rubble, which was great for inf combat, these need to come back. Add life to the streets, destroyed cars, wrecked cars, rubble, something, if we cant change the terrain, add stuff ontop of it?

2- If 1 is not possible, bring back climbing and shimmying, get the inf game off of the ground, allow us to climb buildings again and get on the roof, tactical opportunities are rare for inf now, i used to spend a good 30min to an hour preparing towns by saping buildings and figuring the best roof jumping/climbing spots so i would have places to shoot from, its a completely different game from a vantage point.

3- Area capture, get rid of the cp's, divide towns and surroundings into grids of capturable areas, that must be fought over. Street level funnels need to go. People may be more inclined to set up sandbags and hardened positions to defend strategic areas of a town/city, like a bridge, x roads etc. Area capture rules could end camping as a result of slow response. Terrain outside of town must be captured to a certain % of total area before area inside of town may be captured. Various areas hold various % points, therfore a hill, bridge or x road will be worth 5% while a typical city block may be 2% and and empty piece of street or grass, 0.5%, with value of points increasing strategically towards various important points for a battle map (town). This may allow for a strategic frontal advance instead of ant trails. Think RTW when they moved capture points from the one central point to being distributed around the town, it was no longer mad rush to the centre, the rest of the map started to get used. (ofcoure better terrain but that dosnt seem possible at the moment)

4- implement squad or proximity benefits for players, ie players who stick within 15-25m of each other get multiplications of points awarded or share points awarded to one player, as in i get a kill worth 10 points all the guys with me at that time get 1 xp point extra to their AAR. Extra points for killing ei near a friendly armour. (granted alot of vets wont care for points) People are always going to lone wolf but there are magical moments when a bunch of loners spontaneously collaborate and great things happen, there needs to be a spark for this collaboration to occur more often.

5- I dont know what happen to HC but they used to be the leaders of the game, they would organize, plan and lead battles, the spark that made people collaborate, loners like to know that a specific area will be friendly and they will tend to move in for the general safety aspect leading to greater ZOC etc. i have noticed this occur once in a while but nothing on the scale of what it once was, so whatever it was that knocked HC from this position needs addressing.

2c.

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major0noob
4 hours ago, lipton said:

Boggles the mind that anyone would defend hip firing LMGs while running around (and up stairs) as acceptable, much less anywhere near reality.

And don't even think about reloading a drum (or magazine), while holding the weapon with one hand AND while standing up. Much less doing all that while running around.  Not possible.

This is something that has been a problem and people have been EXTREMELY vocal about for 15 years.  

 

And if I really wunna rile some peeps up.... Let's get side specific and talk about the German Shotgun  :popcorn:

have any data to back it up?...

I'm going out to look for some during TZ3, just from memory i can tell you several LMG's marched forward sweeping around while shooting (this was the BAR's biggest selling point), the American marines even had drills to do it with belt fed clumsier weapons after the war.

Edited by major0noob

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kuronyra
6 hours ago, major0noob said:

have any data to back it up?...

I'm going out to look for some during TZ3, just from memory i can tell you several LMG's marched forward sweeping around while shooting (this was the BAR's biggest selling point), the American marines even had drills to do it with belt fed clumsier weapons after the war.

Well, the BAR is able to do it, not efficiently, but can be done, the gun have a hand placement under the cannon who allow that kind of thing.

Heck, there was some equipement who could make that kind of things possible wih caliber 30. You can see it in "The Pacific"

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cabby

This game is what you make of it.  You don't HAVE to engage in CP combat if you don't want to.   If you buy a sub rather than let other people pay your way you can build and defend  Defensive Spawns, deploy Anti-Tank/Anti-Aircraft guns,   build supply dumps for tanks and guard/spot for them, or form a Combat Air Patrol over a contested town.   It's all up to you.

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major0noob

10s of google search:

found a video of hip fireing a MG34, turns out it was a practiced stance called sturmfeuer

a guy here even goes into more detail, the gist:

  • machinegunners were the stronger men in a unit. so it wasn't impossible for them to handle them in anything but the deployed position
  • there was training for it, it was a very distinct stance and grip
  • it was effective for up to 50m

 

 

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major0noob

it's iconic as hell now that i see it... there's propaganda on both sides with this exact stance, and ordinary pictures from the era show german solders in this stance.

@hellosim may have something on this awesome stance

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lipton

People always post that same stupid video of a guy standing in one spot and trying not to fall over backwards while firing very short burst. We've all seen it. Lame 

I can skydive. But that doesn't prove I can fly. 

Now please find a video of a guy firing one while running around from room to room and up a flight of stairs. And PLEASE show me a video of someone reloading one while running around from room to room and up a flight of stairs. 

What is "iconic" is seeing them in a prone position firing.  Iconic... lol

Edited by lipton
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