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brady

Incoming Fire

17 posts in this topic

Incoming Fire, Never looks like it is going to hit you, until you know, you hear it hit you, or your dead, Tiger Time as left me particularly raw on this, the ubiquitous tigers and thier long range love taps have worn out my last nerve on this, I generally back up or run away if I can when surprised by a Tiger to far away to hurt, but in this case I took the time to take a few screen shots for this post, admittedly their not as good as I would of hoped, but I am Shure you all know what I am talking about, Incoming fire that is going to hit you should not look like its falling short, it should look like its hitting you...

Incoming_zpstunmicw3.jpg

incoming2_zpshnjsl9tq.jpg

 

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this was corrected last year i think, it looked awesome. then it came back, i don't think anyone mentioned it.

 

should make a bug report man, we assume they know about these little things and make notes of them but they have more important things to do. it's up to us to report bugs, and there aren't many of us on the forums.

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Speaking as a player, not as a Rat, I believe it's just a side effect of the way rounds are tracked. In much the way that it is inaccurate to try and guide another players rounds to target (except for a mortar), you can't accurately predict where another player's rounds are landing. What you see on your screen is not the sane as what they see on theirs. Mortars are tracked by the server, individual rounds are not. I don't know if this should be classified as a bug or just the way things are.

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5 minutes ago, GVONPAUL said:

Speaking as a player, not as a Rat, I believe it's just a side effect of the way rounds are tracked. In much the way that it is inaccurate to try and guide another players rounds to target (except for a mortar), you can't accurately predict where another player's rounds are landing. What you see on your screen is not the sane as what they see on theirs. Mortars are tracked by the server, individual rounds are not. I don't know if this should be classified as a bug or just the way things are.

What is a bit strange though that back in like.. 2008? when KFS1 was still around.. the precision of the estimate was improved to  a very high accuracy. If I had to say something I would think it was like 0.1 degrees. Sure 0.1 degrees still is a lot over 4km but  the performance should still be better than it is?

Still makes me think something is buggy there.

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It may very well be. As I said, I am not speaking in any official capacity, just ruminating on possibilities. I always encourage players to do a .bug when something seems amiss.

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Every position and angle in game is described numerically using some number of bits. Obviously, the more bits, the more precision.

The game's client-server-client communications are so many packets per second, and so many bits per packet.

The data rate directly drives CRS's data costs. It also directly determines how many players can be supported by a given server/network system speed and power.

Those bits are allocated to everything that's happening in-game...your own position/angle/speed/stance/weapon type/weapon-status, the position/angle/speed/stance/weapon type/weapon-status of every other unit on your interaction list, the position/angle/speed/type of every projectile fired since the last packet, and so forth. Everything has to fit into X bits per second.

As part of the original design, it was decided that the limitation on bits per second required that the data for the angular precision of rounds fired at you, that your client uses for displaying their tracer-trajectory, would be medium-precision instead of high-precision. That medium precision data is sent up by your client to the server, then by the server to every client that can see that trajectory. 

I think that design-data-rate has been increased twice since then, but it's still finite. There's a specific number of bits per second. The limitation on your vis list isn't some specific number of other players, because it also depends on what elese is happening within your vis range and view. Lots of projectiles, for instance, likely means a smaller vis list.

Note that this has nothing at all to do with whether the round hits. Your client calculates that using the position of the target provided to it by the server, and high precision calculations of your aim. If you hit, your client sends a "hit, and where, and arrival angle, and energy" message to the server to send to the target. There's no medium precision anywhere in that process. The actual projectile path and the displayed trajectory are independent of each other, just as the rest of the game's visuals are independent of the game's projectile-and-collider models.

My understanding when Oliver was playing around with that data is that he was either using an experimentally increased packet size or frequency, or he had experimentally decreased the vis list.

Edited by jwilly
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jwilly is not only a genius, he can explain things real good. thx as always, jw. 

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As been said it's a lack of precision on the information that is given to you when the other player shoots at you, not sure if it has to do with 32bit and the lack of precision due to a big world or the way information is given to you, I think a lot of the damage ballistic are done locally on your pc what is then send to the server must be a simplified data that might not be enough for you to generate the precise location of hit.

 

Btw this was never fixed if it was improved I never noticed at least where it matter long range combat.

Edited by pbveteran

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So the problem is exacerbated  The greater the range? 

 And it's something that can't be fixed? 

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It could be fixed by CRS deciding to increase their bandwidth per peak-load player, and their server power, and by them re-structuring the packet size and/or frequency so that there are more bits per second to work with, so that displayed trajectories can be higher precision.

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Ya, I have been killed by a round that APPEARS to land 100m in front of me. What you see is NOT what is truly happening.

Perception. What is seen and what is actual are 2 different things.

 

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On 27/05/2017 at 9:01 AM, imded said:

Ya, I have been killed by a round that APPEARS to land 100m in front of me. What you see is NOT what is truly happening.

Perception. What is seen and what is actual are 2 different things.

 

Yep, a favourite for me is watching the enemy fire at you, where their round appears to detonate on the tree directly in front of them, yet it's immediately followed by the sound of the round hitting your hull.

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On 2017-05-25 at 5:02 AM, jwilly said:

It could be fixed by CRS deciding to increase their bandwidth per peak-load player, and their server power, and by them re-structuring the packet size and/or frequency so that there are more bits per second to work with, so that displayed trajectories can be higher precision.

To increase bandwidth is surely the easiest solution

People only get more bandwidth each day, so in the long run it should not cause a problem. Myself just upgraded myself to 700/700mbit/sec, so expecting people have at least ISDN upload speeds (about 128kbit/sec) and a ping below 250ms, is reasonable!

As for CRS bandwidth, they just upgraded it 10times, and you do not need to increase bandwidth 10 times to get the high precision ;) (and of course CRS could use bandwidth saving tech, like sending out gaming info on a multicast channel, but just not enough time and resources)

Oh, and for those with satellite: Nowadays you could upgrade to the new low orbit flying satellites, that give you less than 150ms of ping (in practise that should give you 220ms in US). (ref: O3b networks)

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8 hours ago, wockawocka said:

satellite: Nowadays you could upgrade to the new low orbit flying satellites, that give you less than 150ms of ping (in practise that should give you 220ms in US). (ref: O3b networks)

Seriously? U can play this game on a sat hook up ?

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On 6/8/2017 at 0:16 AM, brady said:

Seriously? U can play this game on a sat hook up ?

Due to the way the game is designed yes.

You will die a lot as infantry in CQB because of the latency and the speed that things are happening but yes you can play

Vehicles are easier because they do not move and change direction with the same frequency.

You may still find yourself killed by the very thing you just killed but yea, it works.

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