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XOOM

Brigade Removal Frozen for Steam "Early Access"

514 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, Capco said:

17,000 sorties that were after January 2006, meaning you are not intimately familiar with the major shortfalls that town-based supply presented to the Allies.  You actually do lack the necessary perspective here.  

One doesn't need a bunch of AHC experience to see that ToES sucks a bag of muddy cacks.

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1 minute ago, vasduten1 said:

One doesn't need a bunch of AHC experience to see that ToES sucks a bag of muddy cacks.

Of course not.  And that's not remotely what I said or implied either.  

 

It's a reference to being an Allied player during the era of Axis dominance and has nothing to do with HC.  

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30 minutes ago, Capco said:

Additionally, as I'm sure you guys have picked up, a major reason for my support of TOEs is (in a way) side-biased.  TOEs helped the Allies level the playing field.  

 

I don't want a system where one side wins 60-70% of the time.  There is no such thing as a "game" when both sides don't have an equal shot at winning.  

 

A proper balancing mechanism to replace the potential balance that TOEs afforded is essential for the future of the game.  

TOEs, TOEs... got it.

 

So you say the old town-based system favored the Axis. I agree.

 

Speaking of throwing the baby out with the bathwater... How did removing town supply in favor of this POS fare so far?

They threw out the baby with the bathwater. Not even one rifle to spawn when a town is being softcapped. 

 

It looks as though we all agree that TOEs was implemented to fix an imbalance, and then proceeded to make players leave en masse. We also agree that it's killing the game right now.

I'm sure most on this thread, if not all, agree that removing the current TOEs system should have taken priority over a Steam release.

 

 

I want so very much to see town based supply, (maybe even small amounts of movable stuff along the front-line -but hidden from the enemy,) and I want to see side imbalances evened out.

Even if it helps a *little* bit, putting FTP on the underpop when they log in would be worth it.

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4 minutes ago, vasduten1 said:

TOEs, TOEs... got it.

 

So you say the old town-based system favored the Axis. I agree.

 

Speaking of throwing the baby out with the bathwater... How did removing town supply in favor of this POS fare so far?

They threw out the baby with the bathwater. Not even one rifle to spawn when a town is being softcapped. 

 

It looks as though we all agree that TOEs was implemented to fix an imbalance, and then proceeded to make players leave en masse. We also agree that it's killing the game right now.

I'm sure most on this thread, if not all, agree that removing the current TOEs system should have taken priority over a Steam release.

 

 

I want so very much to see town based supply, (maybe even small amounts of movable stuff along the front-line -but hidden from the enemy,) and I want to see side imbalances evened out.

Even if it helps a *little* bit, putting FTP on the underpop when they log in would be worth it.

Well said and spot on.  Just because I gave TOEs suggestions in this thread doesn't mean I don't think 1.36 should have came before Steam.  

 

The reason why I'm not playing is because I'm waiting for the Steam release when we'll need proper HC coverage.  This is the last time I'm going to do this for this god awful system.  

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1 hour ago, Capco said:

You're missing my point bmw.  You don't do any of those flag jobs now do you?  You aren't in HC. 

 

In the two hours you have, you set up FMS, guard CPs, and blow FBs when needed, right?  

 

What about when you join HC after flags are gone.  Are you going to create any more content during those two hours than you did before you joined HC?  You're going to be doing the same thing you do right now.  THAT'S my point.  

I dont think Im missing anything.........Im not in HC atm therefore dont have an "EXTRA" thing to do that could potentially cut into setting up FMS, guard CPs, and blow FBs when needed.

Fact of the matter is, its an outdated system that is no longer working in the current climate of the game.  It's a "hands on" job...........and if no one is there to do whats needed the map gets fubar and one sidedness occurs.

 

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8 minutes ago, bmw said:

I dont think Im missing anything.........Im not in HC atm therefore dont have an "EXTRA" thing to do that could potentially cut into setting up FMS, guard CPs, and blow FBs when needed.

Let me ask it like this then.  

 

What will you be doing differently AFTER you join HC (post 1.36 where you won't have the "EXTRA" things) than you are doing right now?  

 

Pre 1.36 Example:  right now in 2 hours of playtime you set 3 FMS and blow 3 FBs.  You are not in HC and have no extra flag jobs to do.

Post 1.36 Example:  in 2 hours of playtime you set 3 FMS and blow 3 FBs.  This time you ARE in HC and have no extra flag jobs to do, but you'll potentially still have to check supply and place AOs.  

 

You aren't going to be creating any more net content for your side after 1.36 comes out.  

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19 minutes ago, Capco said:

Well said and spot on.  Just because I gave TOEs suggestions in this thread doesn't mean I don't think 1.36 should have came before Steam.  

 

The reason why I'm not playing is because I'm waiting for the Steam release when we'll need proper HC coverage.  This is the last time I'm going to do this for this god awful system.  

I expect you'll join the HC of whatever side needs it's roster filled out -for the sake of the game.

 

:)

 

Better not be AHC... they're more plentiful these days than GHC.

It'd be nice to have people on for both sides' HC when Steam releases.

 

I'm not doing it. I did it twice, and promised myself I wouldn't until after TOEs goes away and the job gets less tedious.

 

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3 minutes ago, vasduten1 said:

I expect you'll join the HC of whatever side needs it's roster filled out -for the sake of the game.

 

:)

 

Better not be AHC... they're more plentiful these days than GHC.

It'd be nice to have people on for both sides' HC when Steam releases.

 

I'm not doing it. I did it twice, and promised myself I wouldn't until after TOEs goes away and the job gets less tedious.

Ummmm.... lol. 

 

Tbf though, I'm not even half the MOIC potthead is.  You guys will be fine :D

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This whole TOES removal BS has been a gigantic waste of time so far. Been more than a year of wasted energy. 

I just knew it was gonna end up like that.

minimal garrisons would fix the softcap madness while keeping the strategic possibilities of the brigade system. 

 

I'm not doing it. I did it twice, and promised myself I wouldn't until after TOEs goes away and the job gets less tedious.

 

You did it for the LW ranks you [censored]! ;)

Edited by Lob12

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4 minutes ago, Capco said:

Let me ask it like this then.  

 

What will you be doing differently AFTER you join HC (post 1.36 where you won't have the "EXTRA" things) than you are doing right now?  

 

Pre 1.36 Example:  right now in 2 hours of playtime you set 3 FMS and blow 3 FBs.  You are not in HC and have no extra flag jobs to do.

Post 1.36 Example:  in 2 hours of playtime you set 3 FMS and blow 3 FBs.  This time you ARE in HC and have no extra flag jobs to do, but you'll potentially still have to check supply and place AOs.  

 

You aren't going to be creating any more net content for your side after 1.36 comes out.  

I don't know what your logic is here, Capco.

 

We've all told you that for most of us, being in HC meant moving supply around and when a person is MOIC, it's a full time thing with only enough time to go guard a CP or FB. We're counting on each player in this case having ONE account only.

Taking the flag move game away will easily free up time for HC officers to be MORE on the ground and leading by running FMSs in, etc. 

 

Please don't tell me you think driving an FMS in is no big deal, because while it's "Drive toward town and place MSP", it's also, "Drive toward town, get killed. Go around the other way. Get killed. Why wasn't that ET marked?  I'll mark it. Drive toward town get around the other side by driving an additional ten minutes out of your way and start placing the FMS. Get killed. "

1ref7b.jpg

 

It takes more than half of a person's attention to help set up an AO, even early on.

 

 

 

I just don't see how you're trying to justify any of this.

 

I just don't see the logic to it. 

It's OK to just say, "Guys, you're all right for different reasons and I differ on maybe one or two points.".

No need to hammer that one point you differ on at every opportunity.

 

This isn't going to change any time soon. Sadly, CRS remains silent, but I bet they're watching and at least thinking about what to do. They've been good so far, and I hope they see the folly releasing this "as is" to steam would be.

 

Sometimes when you're taking risks, you have to take MORE risks in order to keep things copacetic and not have the whole thing blow up in your face. Sometimes deadlines need to be flexible if the product you're selling is suffering now. can't just take a dump on Steam's chest, can we?

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7 minutes ago, vasduten1 said:

I don't know what your logic is here, Capco.

 

We've all told you that for most of us, being in HC meant moving supply around and when a person is MOIC, it's a full time thing with only enough time to go guard a CP or FB. We're counting on each player in this case having ONE account only.

 

 

 

Last time I won officer of the map I was in the #5 killers too... Just saying. You can play and HC at the same time easily, as long you're not a total noob and that the playerbase actually helps out a bit. 

Running a squad is nearly a full time job too (the way I'd run one anyway) and we still need those. This is a player driven game. 

I've been playing EvE online a bit recently and even though its full of flaws (did someone say grind fest?) its nice to see hardcore gaming isn't completely dead.

Getting a bit tired of the whole "dumb it down" arguments in here.

Edited by Lob12
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There are many things they could do to help the flag system.

Allow manual command to set fallbacks - or just completely remove the sister flag adjacent rules completely. (for both moving and fallback)

Do not allow any flag to move INTO a contested town - any CP (may move out).

Disallow all inter division stacking - 1pz may no longer stack with 2pz ever.  Only 1pz flags can stack with one another (system could stack via bounce flags etc)

 

Pretty sure these are trivial code changes, but they won't do it.  The problem is, EVEN if they did all of them, we still don't have players on to move the flags in the first place.....  How does that get solved?

Not to mention, still have unlimited air and navy - the above would just solve army supply.  Still disgusting amounts of air and navy available at all times. (maybe make air and navy flags have 12 hour timers)?

Edited by delems

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3 minutes ago, vasduten1 said:

Taking the flag move game away will easily free up time for HC officers to be MORE on the ground and leading by running FMSs in, etc. 

The point is about those content-creating players who refuse to join HC right now because of the flag game.  Once the flag game is gone, how will their game change after they join HC?  They are not going to create any new content.  

 

I'm not talking about the individual MOIC who will now have more time.  I'm talking about the supposed influx of players in HC equaling more content.  It's not gonna happen like that.

 

Pre 1.36:  10 content creators online, 2 of them in HC

Post 1.36:  10 content creators online, 5 of them in HC

 

An HC tag does not make you more of a content creator.

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19 minutes ago, Lob12 said:

This whole TOES removal BS has been a gigantic waste of time so far. Been more than a year of wasted energy. 

I just knew it was gonna end up like that.

minimal garrisons would fix the softcap madness while keeping the strategic possibilities of the brigade system. 

Oh, look who showed up to stir the pot.

scsc.gif

Quote

You did it for the LW ranks you [censored]! ;)

I was invited, and all after a month, I was LW CO.

People were leaving. What can I say?

 

Do I get to fly whatever plane I like? Yes.

Do I enjoy that? HELLS YES.

:)

 

Am I any good? Meh... not really. ha!

Edited by vasduten1

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2 minutes ago, Capco said:

The point is about those content-creating players who refuse to join HC right now because of the flag game.  Once the flag game is gone, how will their game change after they join HC?  They are not going to create any new content.  

 

I'm not talking about the individual MOIC who will now have more time.  I'm talking about the supposed influx of players in HC equaling more content.  It's not gonna happen like that.

 

Pre 1.36:  10 content creators online, 2 of them in HC

Post 1.36:  10 content creators online, 5 of them in HC

 

An HC tag does not make you more of a content creator.

Exactly, like all the guys sitting on their hands when you ask for FRUs & Guns are gonna start to be proactive now lol.

And yes like delems said a manual fallback command would fix so much problems but eh...

I would say one of the biggest problems with the HC system right now is CRS inability to adjust it.

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5 minutes ago, delems said:

Pretty sure these are trivial code changes, but they won't do it.  The problem is, EVEN if they did all of them, we still don't have players on to move the flags in the first place.....  How does that get solved?

Exactly.  That's the one part of TOEs that is entirely indefensible.  

 

The thing that irks me is that those coding changes COULD have been done by now and would have given us better campaigns than what we've had over the past year, not to mention help out for the Pre-1.36 Steam release.  

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5 minutes ago, Capco said:

The point is about those content-creating players who refuse to join HC right now because of the flag game.  Once the flag game is gone, how will their game change after they join HC?  They are not going to create any new content.  

 

I'm not talking about the individual MOIC who will now have more time.  I'm talking about the supposed influx of players in HC equaling more content.  It's not gonna happen like that.

 

Pre 1.36:  10 content creators online, 2 of them in HC

Post 1.36:  10 content creators online, 5 of them in HC

 

An HC tag does not make you more of a content creator.

Ah, well... Who the FACK would want to play as HC right now? Six months from now?

 

EVER?

 

 

I only speak for myself, but I'll never play that game in the current state again. It's not so bad when you have a few other officers on, but when it's you and a player who is AFK, guess what? You have to sit there and move flags around, or at LEAST check fallbacks, which requires dealing with the crummy-[censored] drop down menus that your mouse easily shoots past what you wanted and selects something else, or just makes the boxes go away entirely. It's awful, and I hate it.

 

I don't like using the drop down menus WITHOUT being in HC. They're bad enough. Right click, slide over, ugh, this is FACKED.

Right click again...

 

 

It's like that game "Irritating Stick":

 

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6 minutes ago, Lob12 said:

Exactly, like all the guys sitting on their hands when you ask for FRUs & Guns are gonna start to be proactive now lol.

Literally this in a nutshell.  So much this.  

Edited by Capco
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1 hour ago, Capco said:

Additionally, as I'm sure you guys have picked up, a major reason for my support of TOEs is (in a way) side-biased.  TOEs helped the Allies level the playing field.  

Congratulations on showing those Axis mega squads?  Who.... are now playing... World of... Tanks?

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3 minutes ago, Capco said:

Literally this in a nutshell.  So much this.  

I don't recall anyone saying that once the TOEs system is gone, all of a sudden people would start driving FMSs in and help when they're asked to.

 

You and Lob12 are tossing oranges in with apples here and saying, "Well, it's FRUIT.".

 

Really, though... speaking of players not contributing but who argue on the forums for this or that, how ya doing, Lob12?

 

:)

 

I keed... I keed.

 

There really does need to be incentive for running an FMS in for an AO, like joining a flag's roster and getting X number of points, (and being told you're getting them as it happens,) for getting a mission up to target within a certain amount of time after the AO is placed. Like, prime points for getting an FMS up before tables get hot. In the first ten minutes of the tables being hot, X number and so on.

 

A system-generated award system would be a boon to this, even if a little schmucky. The mission sets can be assigned importance by HC. Points based on that, and obvious to the player. Like in H&G when you achieve stuff. It's dumb, but makes things fun.

 

I'd love to have a pop-up tell me that I got an award for accepting a vital mission and successfully setting up on an AO.

 

 

 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, saronin said:

Congratulations on showing those Axis mega squads?  Who.... are now playing... World of... Tanks?

If you really don't believe that the Axis curbstomping the Allies was the original reason players started leaving the "game" (apart from the fact that it started to get old as new games came out), idk what else to say.  

 

I was there for the curbstomping and gleefully took part in it.  It's the main reason why I ended up playing Allied after clubbing so many baby seals.  

Edited by Capco

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3 minutes ago, vasduten1 said:

I don't recall anyone saying that once the TOEs system is gone, all of a sudden people would start driving FMSs in and help when they're asked to.

It's literally one of Xoom's main talking points about 1.36.  Go back to the monster TOEs thread if you don't believe me.  

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43 minutes ago, Capco said:

Let me ask it like this then.  

 

What will you be doing differently AFTER you join HC (post 1.36 where you won't have the "EXTRA" things) than you are doing right now?  

 

Pre 1.36 Example:  right now in 2 hours of playtime you set 3 FMS and blow 3 FBs.  You are not in HC and have no extra flag jobs to do.

Post 1.36 Example:  in 2 hours of playtime you set 3 FMS and blow 3 FBs.  This time you ARE in HC and have no extra flag jobs to do, but you'll potentially still have to check supply and place AOs.  

 

You aren't going to be creating any more net content for your side after 1.36 comes out.  

Pre 1.36 - I do what I do now. Because Im NOT in HC. Play the game and have fun without worrying about brigades.

Post 1.36 - I do what I do now plus check supply and place AOs - Not very time consuming as setting fallbacks, shifting the line, rotating flags and thinking 5 towns ahead among the other things currently done pre 1.36.

But thats not really the point..............

The point here is HC adds an extra layer of things to do to make the game function as it should.  Its not working now and needs to be replaced..........has nothing to do with what I currently do.

                                                                                                                                                                                                             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

As it stands now I have respect for the guys that do it, it's a thankless "job", they take $hit from the pb and a whole host of other things..........but we all have to agree it is not working as intended and thats the point of this whole thread.

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10 minutes ago, bmw said:

But that's not really the point..............

Its not working now and needs to be replaced

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

As it stands now I have respect for the guys that do it, it's a thankless "job", they take $hit from the pb and a whole host of other things..........but we all have to agree it is not working as intended and that's the point of this whole thread.

True.  The system doesn't work and that's why it needs to be replaced.

 

I just want to put to bed this notion of a tactical, content-creating renaissance post 1.36 that some folks seem to carry around.  

 

The reason I mentioned you by name is because I've worked with you in the past and I know the kind of player you are (aka - the kind we need more of).  I didn't mean to suggest that you yourself subscribe to this notion.  You and Moe are just great examples of someone who does what needs to be done.

 

S!

Edited by Capco

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4 minutes ago, Capco said:

The reason I mentioned you by name is because I've worked with you in the past and I know the kind of player you are (aka - the kind we need more of).  You're a great example of someone who does what needs to be done.

 

S!

Thanks for the comment appreciated. S!

As a playerbase as a whole I think we all care about the game. There is no other gaming community where players and devs can hash it out and they will make changes on the fly or long term down the road based on our thoughts, opinions and observations.

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