XOOM

Brigade Removal Frozen for Steam "Early Access"

514 posts in this topic

13 hours ago, Mosizlak said:

 I hear ya, we've come this far...like giving up on the 21st mile of a marathon lol

This is more like the marathon runner reaching the finish line and the coach saying "you've made it this far, you can do 5 more miles." Then the runner reaches that point and the coach saying "I hate to make you do it, but ... 5 more miles. It's for the best"

Leaving the Bgd system in place might be the OTHER death nail to the Steam experiment. 

The death nails are piling up. 

The Steam expectations might end up being like the guy inviting his best friend on a blind date with his girlfriends best friend. He promises she's hot, but it ends up she doesn't even have a great personality. \

But I'll try to make it ANOTHER 5 miles coach.

Edited by lipton

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I'm hoping/assuming they'll have HC in place 24 hours a day to facilitate AO placement, etc......

 

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15 minutes ago, Pittpete said:

I'm hoping/assuming they'll have HC in place 24 hours a day to facilitate AO placement, etc......

 

I'll do it for $75/hr. That's the minimum I charge for real-life work and HC is more stressful. 

Double time for overtime of course

Edited by lipton

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23 minutes ago, lipton said:

This is more like the marathon runner reaching the finish line and the coach saying "you've made it this far, you can do 5 more miles." Then the runner reaches that point and the coach saying "I hate to make you do it, but ... 5 more miles. It's for the best"

Leaving the Bgd system in place might be the OTHER death nail to the Steam experiment. 

The death nails are piling up. 

The Steam expectations might end up being like the guy inviting his best friend on a blind date with his girlfriends best friend. He promises she's hot, but it ends up she doesn't even have a great personality. \

But I'll try to make it ANOTHER 5 miles coach.

Lipton... you gotta start having a little faith here man.

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I believe you truly enjoy this game and have put your money where your mouth is (so to speak), much respect for that. What we say and how we communicate does have an influence on readers. Please consider that more.

We are doing the very best we can and I hope you were able to see that very in-depth Rat Chat to validate that. S! 

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I, too, am waiting for the removal of the brigade system.  I think it will significantly enhance gameplay to go back to the town based supply and thus keep more players around.  But even worse is to implement a poorly designed buggy system.  We been down that road several times and it not one to go down again.

 

A couple of questions:  will 1.36 be implemented before full steam release (as opposed to early release)?  And if we are stuck with brigade placement, can the rats augment HQ someway to fill in during the worst of time?  

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I agree Granit. I would prefer holding off on implementation rather than having a buggy system handed to us. 

I'm just worried about the things that are not going to be implemented before the Big Steam Unvail. 

I want WWIIOL to attract as many new players as possible. I want it to be a YUGE success. 

But, if released to Steam without the improvements in place... it's just the same old game and we might miss our ONE opportunity. 

Are we at least going to get the new guns and planes in game before the Steam release?

Time table for Steam Pre-release and official release? 6 months between the two?

Edited by lipton

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1 hour ago, lipton said:

I agree Granit. I would prefer holding off on implementation rather than having a buggy system handed to us. 

I'm just worried about the things that are not going to be implemented before the Big Steam Unvail. 

I want WWIIOL to attract as many new players as possible. I want it to be a YUGE success. 

But, if released to Steam without the improvements in place... it's just the same old game and we might miss our ONE opportunity. 

IMO TOE is not going to "ruin" a steam release, simply because its mechanics do not matter to a new guy. Have you ever seen a new guy come online and think: "oh no we have a brigade cut off"?
They don't care cause they don't know the inner workings. At least not the first 2 weeks. The key drivers for new players to stay are content (fights/battles), a bug-free gaming experience (e.g. the server/client not getting laggy), and being able to figure out how the game works to -some- degree.

The only thing Steam should do is increase the number of players that try out the game. This automatically will lead to veterans returning as well, which solves your HC problem. For example, AEF is now super low in population, if a steam release leads to a spike in population i'm pretty sure you automatically get 30+ AEF back ingame as well.

TOE should still go (and how it looks now imo TOE will go). And not because of the HC problems we have now, that's simply a result of low server pop in general. I'm sure if you get popuplation up by a factor of 6 again then TOE can be managed like in 2010. But TOE should go because of the never-ending supply rotation and centralization of management leading to a constant burden for and blamegame towards HC. No changes in the trickle/movement/resupply timers will fix these issues.

After long talks I'm also now a real advocate for at a minimum un-moveable supply in every town and then some strategic layer on top of that. The often named hybrid system that would include -some- flags (<=9 imo) on the map that give you a boost. Or for example a more active bombing influence on supply (many targets all over the map).  Next to these supply mechanics it is vital to restore the organizational purpose that the ORBAT/brigades once had.

 

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I have not been in game much lately.  But here is my 2 cents having been a player since 2002 under other accounts.  CRS needs to do everything they can to slow the flow of the map and create long lasting battles and not quick ways for towns to be overrun and Div, bgds from being cut off.  Lets require that all cp's be captured before the ab goes hot in 1 ab towns and sections of larger towns abs go hot with adjacent cp's (unless lots of coding is required)  Manage supply in a way that slows battles down and lets newer HC guys react and that could also mean limited tank supply which would be historically accurate.  

Maybe even delay Campaign'n all together to let new player's learn the equipment a bit, or allow new players to try the game in another server kinda like a intermission with limitless supply. 

My point here is we need to influence campaign's ( to mitigate the loss of 1.36) in a way that prevents large sections of the map from being cut off and then you will prevent a situation on Steam that pits one side from having a huge amount of players gained from momentum playing against a much smaller demoralized side with less supply IMO.

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15 minutes ago, cooperhawk said:

I have not been in game much lately.  But here is my 2 cents having been a player since 2002 under other accounts.  CRS needs to do everything they can to slow the flow of the map and create long lasting battles and not quick ways for towns to be overrun and Div, bgds from being cut off.  Lets require that all cp's be captured before the ab goes hot in 1 ab towns and sections of larger towns abs go hot with adjacent cp's (unless lots of coding is required)  Manage supply in a way that slows battles down and lets newer HC guys react and that could also mean limited tank supply which would be historically accurate.  

Maybe even delay Campaign'n all together to let new player's learn the equipment a bit, or allow new players to try the game in another server kinda like a intermission with limitless supply. 

My point here is we need to influence campaign's ( to mitigate the loss of 1.36) in a way that prevents large sections of the map from being cut off and then you will prevent a situation on Steam that pits one side from having a huge amount of players gained from momentum playing against a much smaller demoralized side with less supply IMO.

With this system, towns like antwerp and brussels will be even harder to capture. There's a reason that Axis attacks like to bypass antwerp and brussels in the first place, making them even harder to capture is just silly.

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2 minutes ago, holmium said:

With this system, towns like antwerp and brussels will be even harder to capture. There's a reason that Axis attacks like to bypass antwerp and brussels in the first place, making them even harder to capture is just silly.

Just a thought, but in 1.36 it will probably be impossible to "go around" targets anymore. Have fun slamming your head against Brussels and Antwerp. We're already excited for liege and Aachen :(

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1 hour ago, monsjoex said:

IMO TOE is not going to "ruin" a steam release, simply because its mechanics do not matter to a new guy. Have you ever seen a new guy come online and think: "oh no we have a brigade cut off"?
They don't care cause they don't know the inner workings. At least not the first 2 weeks. The key drivers for new players to stay are content (fights/battles), a bug-free gaming experience (e.g. the server/client not getting laggy), and being able to figure out how the game works to -some- degree.

The only thing Steam should do is increase the number of players that try out the game. This automatically will lead to veterans returning as well, which solves your HC problem. For example, AEF is now super low in population, if a steam release leads to a spike in population i'm pretty sure you automatically get 30+ AEF back ingame as well.

TOE should still go (and how it looks now imo TOE will go). And not because of the HC problems we have now, that's simply a result of low server pop in general. I'm sure if you get popuplation up by a factor of 6 again then TOE can be managed like in 2010. But TOE should go because of the never-ending supply rotation and centralization of management leading to a constant burden for and blamegame towards HC. No changes in the trickle/movement/resupply timers will fix these issues.

After long talks I'm also now a real advocate for at a minimum un-moveable supply in every town and then some strategic layer on top of that. The often named hybrid system that would include -some- flags (<=9 imo) on the map that give you a boost. Or for example a more active bombing influence on supply (many targets all over the map).  Next to these supply mechanics it is vital to restore the organizational purpose that the ORBAT/brigades once had.

 

Mons, sometimes your posts are either way off-base, or completely spot-on.  This is definitely the latter :)

 

S!

Edited by Capco

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On 5/28/2017 at 2:33 PM, vasduten1 said:

I'd rather the game get a shot in the arm from Steam than rush 1.36 online.

 

I'd still love to see flags go away, as I was playign a Saturday night during prime time and HC was letting AOs be set by SYSTEM!!!

 

I've heard good news from Dagger on the Steam page, and that it's almost ready to be implemented. That was enough for me to resub,

 

I'm BACK, Bichachos.

Hatch's hard work sold me with the 109 audits. What a difference. 

If the HE and weapons go from being sort of a joke to being solid performers, I'll stick around for sure.

 

I'd love to see Hatch post about his findings so far on that, BTW. I've heard odd stories from side chat, (big surprise,) and I think it needs to be clarified a little.

 

I'll go listen to the Rat Chat soon because I've heard he talked about it.

 

Vas back in action, S!

 

If you are back there's a new DDZ requirement. Talk to Loonie. I think it involves $$$ and lots of it. 

;)

Better get your hero on !

;)

harrrrrrrr !

S!

just joking....but.......??? :)

 

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6 hours ago, lipton said:

This is more like the marathon runner reaching the finish line and the coach saying "you've made it this far, you can do 5 more miles." Then the runner reaches that point and the coach saying "I hate to make you do it, but ... 5 more miles. It's for the best"

Leaving the Bgd system in place might be the OTHER death nail to the Steam experiment. 

The death nails are piling up. 

The Steam expectations might end up being like the guy inviting his best friend on a blind date with his girlfriends best friend. He promises she's hot, but it ends up she doesn't even have a great personality. \

But I'll try to make it ANOTHER 5 miles coach.

This not exactly a "marathon"  but I can appreciate the comment, sometimes it feels like it.

For me when I get bored or frustrated with the game or progress of said game,  I go smell the flowers (aka go fishing, or sunbathing, or working, or sporting or reading or eating or etc......), I take a break etc....ya I know people are paying, that's a bit of a pinch for sure.

Still, CRS is working hard, has been open, has been really NOT making promises that were not doable. 

STEAM is coming, better to promise less and over deliver, than......well..... you know "SOON!"

S!

 

 

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8 hours ago, GrAnit said:

A couple of questions:  will 1.36 be implemented before full steam release (as opposed to early release)?  And if we are stuck with brigade placement, can the rats augment HQ someway to fill in during the worst of time?  

  1. That is our current goal, however we need to sit down and discuss it in its entirety as a team exactly on how we're going to achieve that and make sure it is a tremendous improvement overall. That includes the game rules, supporting logic and user interface flow. We learned we're going to need more hands involved to make sure all of those things come true.
  2. We are discussing stop-gap measures to ensure the current system can be healthier.
3 hours ago, Capco said:

Just a thought, but in 1.36 it will probably be impossible to "go around" targets anymore. Have fun slamming your head against Brussels and Antwerp. We're already excited for liege and Aachen :(

That's not exactly true, but going around an empty target will not be the case, that part is true. Direct action / combat will take place in all situations.

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Xoom; really appreciate the awesome Rat Chat and the work the Rat team is doing.  The game is really moving forward.  I know 1.36 delay is a disappointment to you all and but thanks for the great comms and info.

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On 5/28/2017 at 10:07 PM, Mosizlak said:

 I hear ya, we've come this far...like giving up on the 21st mile of a marathon lol

I'm running right behind you Moz - just figure its like a marathon in the rain - bit more time to get to 1.36 and town supply is all. 

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Been awhile since I've checked in on things.  Don't really have the desire to sift through all this either.  

As the # 1 anti toe/hc persona prior to its introduction,  I highly recommend you don't put this up on steam with those horrible game mechanics still in place.  If you think your having trouble finding people to manage the horrendous systems now, you won't find anyone willing once the steam kiddies get done bbq'ing them.  

While I think the game will benefit greatly from the steam exposure, it won't be a very pleasant experience.  You are going to get completely torched on the graphics, laughable laggy infantry play and are completely on fantasy island if you think anyone is going to pay a monthly subscription to play this.

 

Add in cluster f junction supply and commander corky hc and you won't even want to see the reviews/steam forum

 

Love 

The Oracle oj

Explaining what works in the game and doesn't since 2001

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2 hours ago, sg1 said:

Been awhile since I've checked in on things.  Don't really have the desire to sift through all this either.  

As the # 1 anti toe/hc persona prior to its introduction,  I highly recommend you don't put this up on steam with those horrible game mechanics still in place.  If you think your having trouble finding people to manage the horrendous systems now, you won't find anyone willing once the steam kiddies get done bbq'ing them.  

While I think the game will benefit greatly from the steam exposure, it won't be a very pleasant experience.  You are going to get completely torched on the graphics, laughable laggy infantry play and are completely on fantasy island if you think anyone is going to pay a monthly subscription to play this.

Add in cluster f junction supply and commander corky hc and you won't even want to see the reviews/steam forum

Our goal is to get Early Access up and running to at least do all of the hard lifting work to get WWII Online working on Steam. 

Immediately following will be addressing all of this other stuff.

Deviating from that means we will not be on Steam for another year, God forbid a little longer.

To me, that is not an option. We will waste a lot of time, lose out on a lot of players entering the game who genuinely like it, and of course the resources associated with all of that.

People will like our game because it's a great concept, filled with tons of awesome content, and a fantastic community to support it. As I read your reply I had a hard time taking a good portion of it seriously due to the exaggerations and verbs being used to emphasize those exaggerations. I don't think the new team here at CRS is under any illusion about our short comings or our big strengths with the game.

We've thought about this long and hard and there will no doubt be some growing pains in that process. We need to be bold and attack these issues head on accordingly, and set the fear aside as a distraction / deterrent from us  to succeed. That is what this new team has done overall since taking the helm, we sure as hell aren't going to stop that now because it's been working.

S! 

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Its just a shame that with all the hard work you've guys put in the one sided map rolls continue with no hope in sight.

Right now multiple Axis Brigades are in training. Boggles the mind how this TOE abomination is still in game...SMH:angry:

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What exactly is the difference between "Early Access" and "Full Steam Release"?? 

Won't all the new people you are hoping to add to the game be seeing THIS version of WWIIOL in the "Early Access" Steam release or is it a select group? 

Will there be a different set of Steam players gaining access with the Full Release? 

My concern is the Steam players will see the Early Access version and go... "meh" and review it accordingly. I just don't want to waste our one shot at the Wow Factor to pull them in for the long haul. 

Edited by lipton

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14 minutes ago, lipton said:

What exactly is the difference between "Early Access" and "Full Steam Release"?? 

Won't all the new people you are hoping to add to the game be seeing THIS version of WWIIOL in the "Early Access" Steam release or is it a select group? 

Will there be a different set of Steam players gaining access with the Full Release? 

My concern is the Steam players will see the Early Access version and go... "meh" and review it accordingly. I just don't want to waste our one shot at the Wow Factor to pull them in for the long haul. 

Early Access is basically a way to tell Steam users, "Hey.  This isn't the stage of the game that we would call ideal.  If things aren't up to par, it's because we still have work to do.   Please keep an eye on us as we continue development.  S!"

 

It's a way to generate support for games not considered complete.  Steam users are familiar with the concept and should judge the game accordingly.  

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8 hours ago, Capco said:

Early Access is basically a way to tell Steam users, "Hey.  This isn't the stage of the game that we would call ideal.  If things aren't up to par, it's because we still have work to do.   Please keep an eye on us as we continue development.  S!"

 

It's a way to generate support for games not considered complete.  Steam users are familiar with the concept and should judge the game accordingly.  

so we will be on early access till WWIIONLINW 2.0

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