XOOM

Brigade Removal Frozen for Steam "Early Access"

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I'm not so sure anymore.

With the lack of HC and flag moving right now on the axis side, things are completely disarray.

While I still think flags are the way to go - clearly the current flag system is completely failing.

I've warmed up to the idea of town supply, even though there is something revolting to me about it.

But here it is, Saturday, prime gaming day;  1 HC on, flags are a mess and nothing really happening..... bored, ready to log.

If we had town supply, game can almost run itself w/o HC;  system can place empty AOs with 15 min pauses for HC to place first if on.

 

If we throw steams users into the mess that is the axis side right now....  I shutter to think of the consequences.

I'm positive many months ago zoom said removing TOE was the most critical thing to the game (well, and fixing extreme over pop).

What happened to that, how come the switch to STEAM?  Do we really want to over crowd a boat with a hole in it already?  Maybe fix the hole first.


Oh, and fixing RDP is good, but until HC/TOE and extreme over pop are improved somehow - most everything else in game doesn't matter.  Not to mention, there is a severe issue with RDP with allies having 18 production facilities (USA none) and axis only 9 - if we fix RDP too much - that issue will be worse than RDP as it is now.

 

Edited by delems
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I agree with Delems on this.

 

Having no HC on is a big problem as the gameplay itself is dependent on the ToEs/Flag system.

 

The whole point is that the game needs to be able to run itself. Sure, HC can play a big role, but the damned flag supply system blows oyster choad right now and absolutely requires players with HC tools to be on 24/7 and we all know it sucks.

 

PS: Delems... last night's side chat had me in freaking stitches. Haven't seen it that lively and funny in ages.

We should petition CRS to set up "safe spaces" around towns for people to have their feels repaired.

 

hahahaha

 

 

 

Edited by vasduten1

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5 hours ago, delems said:

I'm not so sure anymore.

If we throw steams users into the mess that is the axis side right now....  I shutter to think of the consequences.

I'm positive many months ago zoom said removing TOE was the most critical thing to the game (well, and fixing extreme over pop).

What happened to that, how come the switch to STEAM?  Do we really want to over crowd a boat with a hole in it already?  Maybe fix the hole first.

I guess we're stuck with TOE for the foreseeable future. Hopefully it gets fixed within the next year. 

But, we can still fix the extreme over pop situation. The carrot/stick solution does not work. It will NEVER work.  But there's another solution that should at least be tested before Steam. 

<<<<<<<<<F2P Lock to Underpop>>>>>>>>>

 

Edited by lipton
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4 hours ago, vasduten1 said:

Having no HC on is a big problem as the gameplay itself is dependent on the ToEs/Flag system.

The whole point is that the game needs to be able to run itself. Sure, HC can play a big role, but the damned flag supply system blows oyster choad right now and absolutely requires players with HC tools to be on 24/7 and we all know it sucks.

 

Maybe it's time for a RAT/RATS to be on 24/7 until 1.36...............In shifts of course....... but otherwise it's a clusterfu*k if no HC is on on both sides.  It's not an  ideal situation for them but what other option is there till 1.36?

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7 minutes ago, bmw said:

Maybe it's time for a RAT/RATS to be on 24/7 until 1.36...............In shifts of course....... but otherwise it's a clusterfu*k if no HC is on on both sides.  It's not an  ideal situation for them but what other option is there till 1.36?

Today I had a meeting with several team members to discuss how to clamp the situation and at a minimum, ease the burden a bit in the interim.

I will have an announcement to provide this coming week about changes that are inbound for Campaign 139.

Hang in there BMW S! 

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Now we just need to clamp the situation and at minimum, ease the burden a bit on the painfully obvious Side-Pop Balance Issue. 

Edited by lipton

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36 minutes ago, lipton said:

Now we just need to clamp the situation and at minimum, ease the burden a bit on the painfully obvious Side-Pop Balance Issue. 

Understood.

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XOOM has mucho skills......!

Edited by GrAnit

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On 5/28/2017 at 5:53 PM, Scking said:

Back in the day, there were enough people in the orbat to have two armies. Allies had BEF and ArFr and the Axis had 12th Army and 6th Army. It was a fully functional orbat where senior command ran the map strategic targets and your country/army command delegated AO's to their Division and Brigade commanders and the AOs and DOs were run by the Brigade CO/XO/XXO/IC's.. Now? Its all done by one person.  Doesn't matter if its a brigade XXO or the CinC, one person runs the map and thats not how an orbat should work. The Orbat is completely broken due to the lack of officers. And no one wants to join HC because they don't want to be Map OIC, it gets worse. When you add more people to the game, the AOs are going to increase and the HC system is going to break badly. 

I very much remember those glory days. What the hell happened? How could it have been avoided?

While I am only one voice on the team, I am hugely in favor of keeping TOE's. Just not relying on them single-handedly, or keeping them managed the way they are now. The entire premise of TOE's was twofold, to give the squad guy's ownership and management of a persistent in-game Brigade HQ "entity" or "home" and an extra supply force beyond that of the "local garrisons" already located in each town, that they could move around to support each other, AND as the end point of an interdict-able supply chain that with a little more work could be represented by something visible in-game and possibly on the map representing those RP's flowing through each CP from factory to front. In other words, a lot more strategic targets on the field for players to go after. In a perfect world, it would have been AI trains, trucks, and barges moving along the roads, railroads, and rivers. Apparently they tried some train stuff but gave it up before being able to make it look right. C'est la vie! That's all water under the bridge at this point with the old guard. But something that could probably be implemented much easier until something better was/is worked out might have been flags, or piles of barrels and boxes, or a few AI trucks parked about in or around AB's or some such at the CP's the RP's are flowing through. You get the idea I hope. TOE's come out, so does direct interdiction other than just indiscriminately beating up on the CP's directly around the places in contention. That in my opinion is a mighty big game play addition to kill just because of a flag management problem...

That said, I couldn't agree more with everyone that the current situation is completely untenable. When we first thought about implementing the TOE's I can assure you that the thought never crossed our minds that one or two single people (or even none at all in some cases) would be managing all the flags... No disrespect to HC past or present for their efforts, but it's clear that despite their best efforts, it's simply a bad implementation and the weight of it is proving disastrous to the game and the HC organizations both.

So take it back to basics. If we can keep the TOE's, who should be responsible for moving the them? The initial concept was for the Brigades to be responsible for moving their own flags by the Brigade CO and/or XO (lowest HC appointments) appointed by the squad leaders/members attached to that brigade. If those guys couldn't be on, it could have been done by any of the officers in his chain of command above him, BUT ALSO by way of flag movement capability being passed on to someone else attached and fighting in that brigade at any given time if no duly appointed HC was available.

It is my hope that we can somehow get back to the original concept where HC officers are promoted from the "ground" up, nominated and supported by their own peers at every level, and that by way of an intuitive UI, flag management can be  done quickly and easily buy not only the HC members in that chain of command, but also by the squad leaders and others below if necessary.

Point being I think 1.36 is a valid option and I understand that a lot of time and thought has gone into it. But from my perspective, (as an integral figure in the origination of the Orbats, High Commands, and the original concept, reasoning, and future developments to be built off of the TOE systems),  the understanding of it being completely yanked out has been a bit  hard to swallow, and I can't help feeling like it's one of those "baby with the bathwater" situations. Sort of a sledgehammer on the proverbial thumbtack?

So while I wasn't really around for 1.36's initial conception and planning, I not only appreciate Xoom's determination to "address the current problem as fast as possible", but I am also very appreciative of his ability to hear and incorporate other points of view regarding the situation even at this late state in 1.36's development. That, and really thankful that perspectives from both sides of the TOE argument are being heard before it's too late to think about other possibly unconsidered options.

The only thing for sure is that we can't stay with what we have, so lets really think about it and figure this $%*@ out! ;-) In the meantime, lots of awesome ideas flowing with regards to the current tools already available to help ease the situation until the longer term solution can be realized.

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The HC system is in crisis because it's something customers have to pay to do, but it has more than enough work and responsibility for it to be a paid job. So to keep the gameplay from abruptly collapsing either make the game not require HC to function, make HC a much easier task to the point that lots of customers will voluntarily do it while paying you money, or pay people to be online 24/7 and run HC (not going to happen). 

3 hours ago, HATCH said:

Point being I think 1.36 is a valid option and I understand that a lot of time and thought has gone into it. But from my perspective, (as an integral figure in the origination of the Orbats, High Commands, and the original concept, reasoning, and future developments to be built off of the TOE systems),  the understanding of it being completely yanked out has been a bit  hard to swallow, and I can't help feeling like it's one of those "baby with the bathwater" situations. Sort of a sledgehammer on the proverbial thumbtack?

What's the baby? The game is unique enough as an open-world MMOFPS and doesn't need grand strategy game elements and an ingame chain of command. TOE also conflicts with and hinders the FPS players at every opportunity rather than enabling them.

 

More important though is that TOE can't ever be improved enough because it depends on HC. If you did something like making the brigades more differentiated, or limiting their movements it would make HC's job harder. And there's not enough HC as it is hence the idea to save HC by removing TOE.

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3 hours ago, HATCH said:

I very much remember those glory days. What the hell happened? How could it have been avoided?

While I am only one voice on the team, I am hugely in favor of keeping TOE's. Just not relying on them single-handedly, or keeping them managed the way they are now. The entire premise of TOE's was twofold, to give the squad guy's ownership and management of a persistent in-game Brigade HQ "entity" or "home" and an extra supply force beyond that of the "local garrisons" already located in each town, that they could move around to support each other, AND as the end point of an interdict-able supply chain that with a little more work could be represented by something visible in-game and possibly on the map representing those RP's flowing through each CP from factory to front. In other words, a lot more strategic targets on the field for players to go after. In a perfect world, it would have been AI trains, trucks, and barges moving along the roads, railroads, and rivers. Apparently they tried some train stuff but gave it up before being able to make it look right. C'est la vie! That's all water under the bridge at this point with the old guard. But something that could probably be implemented much easier until something better was/is worked out might have been flags, or piles of barrels and boxes, or a few AI trucks parked about in or around AB's or some such at the CP's the RP's are flowing through. You get the idea I hope. TOE's come out, so does direct interdiction other than just indiscriminately beating up on the CP's directly around the places in contention. That in my opinion is a mighty big game play addition to kill just because of a flag management problem...

That said, I couldn't agree more with everyone that the current situation is completely untenable. When we first thought about implementing the TOE's I can assure you that the thought never crossed our minds that one or two single people (or even none at all in some cases) would be managing all the flags... No disrespect to HC past or present for their efforts, but it's clear that despite their best efforts, it's simply a bad implementation and the weight of it is proving disastrous to the game and the HC organizations both.

So take it back to basics. If we can keep the TOE's, who should be responsible for moving the them? The initial concept was for the Brigades to be responsible for moving their own flags by the Brigade CO and/or XO (lowest HC appointments) appointed by the squad leaders/members attached to that brigade. If those guys couldn't be on, it could have been done by any of the officers in his chain of command above him, BUT ALSO by way of flag movement capability being passed on to someone else attached and fighting in that brigade at any given time if no duly appointed HC was available.

It is my hope that we can somehow get back to the original concept where HC officers are promoted from the "ground" up, nominated and supported by their own peers at every level, and that by way of an intuitive UI, flag management can be  done quickly and easily buy not only the HC members in that chain of command, but also by the squad leaders and others below if necessary.

Point being I think 1.36 is a valid option and I understand that a lot of time and thought has gone into it. But from my perspective, (as an integral figure in the origination of the Orbats, High Commands, and the original concept, reasoning, and future developments to be built off of the TOE systems),  the understanding of it being completely yanked out has been a bit  hard to swallow, and I can't help feeling like it's one of those "baby with the bathwater" situations. Sort of a sledgehammer on the proverbial thumbtack?

So while I wasn't really around for 1.36's initial conception and planning, I not only appreciate Xoom's determination to "address the current problem as fast as possible", but I am also very appreciative of his ability to hear and incorporate other points of view regarding the situation even at this late state in 1.36's development. That, and really thankful that perspectives from both sides of the TOE argument are being heard before it's too late to think about other possibly unconsidered options.

The only thing for sure is that we can't stay with what we have, so lets really think about it and figure this $%*@ out! ;-) In the meantime, lots of awesome ideas flowing with regards to the current tools already available to help ease the situation until the longer term solution can be realized.

I am a product of the original idea Hatched by Hatch here. We all started in SOE and took what we had built on paper (the ORBAT) and put it into the game (ToEs).

I too have a certain attachment to the original concept of the HC's. Yes it takes work, but it's a volunteer system and when it's lead well it works. Players have vested time in something bigger than simply playing the game. They play for the benefit of the community and there chosen side.

It's hard to explain to people who have no experience being in the HC's. It's also very easy to dismiss the HC's and say there no longer needed or simply "there time has come". IMO this is a mistake and very misguided. This game this community would be a hollow shell with out players leading it in and out of game. IMO the HC strategic layer is what makes this game VERY unique and unlike any game currently out. To do away with it would be a huge mistake.

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2 hours ago, david01 said:

The HC system is in crisis because it's something customers have to pay to do, but it has more than enough work and responsibility for it to be a paid job. So to keep the gameplay from abruptly collapsing either make the game not require HC to function, make HC a much easier task to the point that lots of customers will voluntarily do it while paying you money, or pay people to be online 24/7 and run HC (not going to happen).

HC's were never supposed to be experienced as "a job", but instead, as privilege and honor that the folks around you thought enough of your leadership skills to want you to be their coordinator with the other brigade/divisions on the map in the smaller regional TOE areas. Never one guy trying to manage the entire map nor carrying the burden of doing so on his own. How the heck it has morphed into what it has become in the last 10 years is beyond me. That said, the "local garrisons" I mentioned in the above post in every CP would have ensured the game could roll on regardless of the HC's or not. If you wanted to do your own thing, you just went to different CP and start your own skirmish. If you wanted to participate in something more epic, you aligned yourself with the HC and fought in the coordinated battles, but in the original TOE inclusion, the HC's were never to be the only way into a fight.
 

2 hours ago, david01 said:

The game is unique enough as an open-world MMOFPS and doesn't need grand strategy game elements and an ingame chain of command. TOE also conflicts with and hinders the FPS players at every opportunity rather than enabling them.

Says who? IMHO that seems to be a rather short sighted and one sided perspective that I guess we'll simply have to agree to disagree on. The FPS should be able to enjoy themselves fighting alongside the "official" brigades, or on their own between them using the local garrisons... We just need to be able to direct new players into "missions" or "action" where they are not standing around listening to the birds chirping and wondering where everyone is at said empty garrisons... It also seems people have completely forgotten exactly WHY the ORBATS were created and maintained in the first place. Both sides needed to have some sort of game supported player maintained command and communication structure. Without it, there was pretty much equal chaos on both sides until one side created the first unofficial orbat of their own and began cleaning the other sides clocks. We waited as long as we could for the losing side to start organizing on their own to balance things out, but aside from lots of excuses, apparently it was easier to log or go join the other side, further compounding the issue. Hard to fight at all when everyone ends up on the same side...

 

2 hours ago, david01 said:

More important though is that TOE can't ever be improved enough because it depends on HC. If you did something like making the brigades more differentiated, or limiting their movements it would make HC's job harder. And there's not enough HC as it is hence the idea to save HC by removing TOE.

First of all, the HC' positions above division shouldn't even be worried about the TOE/brigades in an individual sense. All they should be doing is coordinating weekly battle plans, discussing current objectives and/or tactical retreats with their peers and passing along what everyone else is doing down to their chain of command to the brigade leader so HE can manage his TOE/Brigade the best way to defend his AO or move to support the next TOE/brigade over. Not enough HC on? Lets temporarily forget the HC naming convention and talk about TOE control. If no HC is present for a TOE, shouldn't the players attached to that TOE have the ability to appoint and remove their own active leaders in order to manage that flag? At least until one of the "official" TOE squad leader appointed brigade CO/XO's is present again? Is it that there isn't enough HC leaders on, or is it that at the HC's lowest level, there presently isn't good way for the best battlefield leaders at the moment to be promoted at least temporarily into the "HC's" as needed to keep the TOE's rolling? That was how the best leaders on the field could and should be identified for squad leader nomination as an "official" viable entry level "HC" candidate (brigade leader/TOE manager) in the first place.

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The toe/hc mechanics are so deep at destroying the game, they not only stop gameplay from happening but kill it before it even begins.  

Let me once again explain the fundementals of the most golden resource you have here..its people and ideas

First off, squads prior to toe could pick a target and knew the supply levels for the region.  Setting up a perfect assault delivered attritable success in a reasonable time frame. Equipment losses mattered and resulted in masterful set piece engagements where organization and execution were rewarded.  Go ask a dinker or deadlock about this.  This promoted organized squad play and hence the mega squads that once operated across the map executing real combined arms op's with the only ceiling to the detail being how far they could push it.  Hell i could have 150 people spawned and in a perfect armor column on the road in under 2 minutes.

Why do this now? With warp a flag in, it's made most fights horrendous meatgrinders. Sure you would do massive damage to the enemy supply, but they just move in another full flag.  That's terrible and completely takes away my interest of even bothering.  The perfect attack turns into lemon herding...the only play the game delivers today which is 0 fun

Then we have the leadership issue. I'm not asking some jerkoff to place an ao.  I don't have the time, patience, or want to hear their ideas.  People never followed me because I was hc, it was because we made [censored] happen.  This didnt start on my first day, it was because the game allowed some Yahoo like myself to conjure [censored] up to do and through trial and error I pulled off [censored] none of even your most heralded fan boys could even come close to doing.

My point here is you must allow any player at any time be able to say "let's do this here" and not have game mechanics preventing that.  In doing so, you are grooming that next deadlock who is gonna bring people back every day.  These hc clowns are so busy moving flags and placing ao's they dont have the time to actually run real op's with set piece plans thats where the game shines.  You all are in one flashing box yelling p1 flood like ants streaming in.  If that's gameplay... I'll go play cod it's much better and you have completely missed where this games true awesomeness is delivered.  You have a game without limits in terms of combined armed strategy and reduced it to fight in a box with no resemblance of anything tactical or planned going on

Solution

1. Town supply - gets rid of the flag o rama and softcap bull[censored] 

2. Hc/ao -if i have 10 people's vote/on my mission, whatever you can wire into this 1998 coding...I can place an ao 

Game just went farther with those two changed than it's went in the last 12 years

Edited by sg1
..
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1 hour ago, sg1 said:

Solution

1. Town supply - gets rid of the flag o rama and softcap bull[censored] 

2. Hc/ao -if i have 10 people's vote/on my mission, whatever you can wire into this 1998 coding...I can place an ao 

I actually think we're talking at least partially about the same thing here. I agree 100% with having garrison supply in ALL the towns that can be used just like they could be when we first kicked this thing off. If you can get the manpower following you, you pull stuff from as far back as you can and take off. But if you have enough "pull" to do that on a consistent basis night after night, why ARENT you the brigade CO/XO moving the flags or the division CO/XO placing the AO's? Simply put, if that sort of coordination, leadership, and commitment in "gameplay" isn't being rewarded by the game, I agree, we are falling miserably short. So lets fix it. But restructure the HC program so that it builds from the "field" as it did before, and leave the TOE's with their supply lines in so that we can build on that for more interdict-able supply and logistics targets behind the lines for both sides. The rest is primarily just adjusting "garrison levels", movement and supply speeds, and timer details is it not?

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1 hour ago, HATCH said:

I actually think we're talking at least partially about the same thing here. I agree 100% with having garrison supply in ALL the towns that can be used just like they could be when we first kicked this thing off. If you can get the manpower following you, you pull stuff from as far back as you can and take off. But if you have enough "pull" to do that on a consistent basis night after night, why ARENT you the brigade CO/XO moving the flags or the division CO/XO placing the AO's? Simply put, if that sort of coordination, leadership, and commitment in "gameplay" isn't being rewarded by the game, I agree, we are falling miserably short. So lets fix it. But restructure the HC program so that it builds from the "field" as it did before, and leave the TOE's with their supply lines in so that we can build on that for more interdict-able supply and logistics targets behind the lines for both sides. The rest is primarily just adjusting "garrison levels", movement and supply speeds, and timer details is it not?

1. Because nowadays there is too few action so people move around with their squad (has been more or less like this since i started in 2005). The TOE system tries to organise the playerbase by linking them to a brigade.. but thats fixed on the map so it doesn't work.

2. There are too few AO's for the number of groups that want to go around and play for themselves. In 2008 highpop we had like 6-8 so then it wasnt an issue but the issue arose in EU and AU tz's eith only 3-4 AO's. With that the centralization of power (hc places ao's) caused infighting and lack of freedom for players.

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1. game is desperate for HC, nonstop calls for applications

2. apply to HC

3. have sorties on the other side (not even the same camp)

4. never hear from them again...

5. nonstop calls for applications
 

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my 2 cents...

If ya ain't gonna remove brigades bring in the new toys, ya gotta give us something Xoom

reduce timers so we always have toys as early as possible(routed brigs, supply etc.)

give old HC players permanent tools access without orbat, sort of like a demi rat god, just without the rat part. If I decide to go Axis and I find out no Axis HC on, voila I can help while I'm on that side...

more nekkid sheep

and no AAA access for MOZ

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Manpower is not unlimited, and there never was enough troops in real life to defend the entire map-- I like the brigade system, but if it is to go, then fine.  But in the meantime, if it is going to stay for the short term, then perhaps look at ways of modifying it to deal with some of the issues people don't like. (Simple mods only- don't spend too much time and energy on it, more important things to do. But if a simple change can be done, why not?)

shorter move times- the ability to move several towns at once- perhaps redeployment from north to south - work out some form of supply delay to reflect such movements.  Perhaps some form of detachable sub unit that could be moved to an open town (much more limited supply) - or independent town militia with very limited spawn lists.

whatever makes people happy - since people are not happy now then change what you can to see if it improves things. 

 

But as far as Steam goes-- going in with 1.36 on its initial release would be a huge mistake-- You only have one chance to make a good impression and going with an untested product is an extremely bad idea.   Existing long time players may be challenged by a new system- new ones would be totally lost.

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*** Setting up a perfect assault delivered attritable success in a reasonable time frame. Equipment losses mattered and resulted in masterful set piece engagements where organization and execution were rewarded.  Why do this now? With warp a flag in, it's made most fights horrendous meatgrinders.

 

Based on the above, I'm sold on town supply now.

 

To keep the TOE concept alive, I'd say dump all divisions and just give each squad a single flag to draw from if they like.  (allow this flag to be overstocked from adjacent towns to max 2x)  Name the flag on the map after this squad (don't let these flags be seen on map by other side -- let the intel and recon begin!).  Start with very little supply in these flags maybe if have to.  Like 1 platoon each of infantry, guns and tanks in the flag (50ish troops, 4 AA/ATG and 4 most common tiered tank).  So that the focus is on the town supply with the squad flag something as a bonus.  In time, maybe increase the squad flag supply to a company of each if game population allows it.

Allow COs (only) to auto OIC their own flag, which then gives them the ability to place AOs.  COs or XOs can move squad flag; since flag is a single entity (no sister flags) it can move at will and will always have a valid fallback, unless surrounded.  Allow routed squad flags to go to training for 12 hours - the squad still has town supply to play with.

 

Edited by delems

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6 hours ago, HATCH said:

I actually think we're talking at least partially about the same thing here. I agree 100% with having garrison supply in ALL the towns that can be used just like they could be when we first kicked this thing off. If you can get the manpower following you, you pull stuff from as far back as you can and take off. But if you have enough "pull" to do that on a consistent basis night after night, why ARENT you the brigade CO/XO moving the flags or the division CO/XO placing the AO's? Simply put, if that sort of coordination, leadership, and commitment in "gameplay" isn't being rewarded by the game, I agree, we are falling miserably short. So lets fix it. But restructure the HC program so that it builds from the "field" as it did before, and leave the TOE's with their supply lines in so that we can build on that for more interdict-able supply and logistics targets behind the lines for both sides. The rest is primarily just adjusting "garrison levels", movement and supply speeds, and timer details is it not?

Very close.

 

The problem that the ToEs/ Flag system is that it's inaccessible to all but those in HC in terms of strategy. Why should someone have to join HC and move in those circles in order to be strategically relevant? 

Blitzkader has had a few members in HC, but for the most part, since the inception of ToEs, they've simply organized and said, "We want to hit X town" and had to wait for an AO or in most cases, a flag to move first, and then they just do it, to great effect a lot of the time.

I don't hate the idea of an official ORBAT, or brigades, but the mechanics of the movements, rules and timers just hinders action at this point. I know you agree on that, but that's not my point.

 

Best case scenario would have:

-A system that could run itself without having to have someone move flags around for supply.

-A system that allows, regardless of squad affiliation or an official position as HC, groups of players to move supply in for objectives. Something where say, someone starts a group, above the mission level ops, and recruits players, and once X number of players join, then supply is unlocked and supply doled out to meet objectives.

-A system where if you organize a big assault, (or defense,) and have made some headway toward meeting those objectives, supply cannot magically just show up and render everyone's efforts wasted as a dozen tanks spawn in and sweep what was left of your assault away. That's frustrating and kills motivation for playing. Why start a big attack when in a mid-low pop situation if all that's gonna happen is a new flag moves in and you've wasted an hour or two setting up zones of control, FMSs, ATG lines and all the rest? You sit and thoughtfully move as a group, attrit a town's supply and then another flag moves in and they roll out in the best tanks they have and it's done. All those resources gone.

-A system that rewards groups of players for getting together to meet objectives. Battle groups, Assault groups, Home Guard, etc.

 

Give people TOOLS rather than RULES. 

 

Of course, rules have to be in place, but tools are more important.

Probably the most detrimental of the HC system as it exists today is the lack of freedom to choose how groups of players conduct the business of war. It's one set of concepts. 

While a lot of those concepts are solid and good, they don't fit everyone's needs and everyone's battle plans, even at their heyday.

 

The beauty of this game is that it's player driven. 

Players just need tools to make stuff happen.

 

Tools not rules!

 

 

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Solution

1. Town supply - gets rid of the flag o rama and softcap bull[censored] 

2. Hc/ao -if i have 10 people's vote/on my mission, whatever you can wire into this 1998 coding...I can place an ao 

Game just went farther with those two changed than it's went in the last 12 years

This..........

Edited by Pittpete

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4 minutes ago, Pittpete said:

Solution

1. Town supply - gets rid of the flag o rama and softcap bull[censored] 

2. Hc/ao -if i have 10 people's vote/on my mission, whatever you can wire into this 1998 coding...I can place an ao 

Game just went farther with those two changed than it's went in the last 12 years

This..........

LOL so any large squad can simply dictate where AO's are placed by a "vote"? That's mob rule not leadership.
Town supply is taking a giant step BACKWARDS.

You haven't read anything Hatch has said. 

The HC's IMO have lost sight of what there purpose is. This is due in part to a loss of numbers. Removing them is not the answer and letting the entire player base have access to HC "tools" is a recipe for disaster. 

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1 minute ago, E7usn said:

LOL so any large squad can simply dictate where AO's are placed by a "vote"? That's mob rule not leadership.
Town supply is taking a giant step BACKWARDS.

You haven't read anything Hatch has said. 

The HC's IMO have lost sight of what there purpose is. This is due in part to a loss of numbers. Removing them is not the answer and letting the entire player base have access to HC "tools" is a recipe for disaster. 

Already the largest squad has most HC and thus most MOIC's. 

Town supply will be a huge step forward due to the removal of "ever-swapping brigades" and the mandatory management that is required for it. And no slowing down trickle rates or anything will not help - it will simply make HC's job more difficult.

 

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LOL, why is this funny.

The game is dying and it's a LOL. I've continued to keep a subscription going and donate to every fundraiser even though i cant stay logged on for more than an hour at a time.

God forbid i take 2 days off from playing because the map might be over.

There is no HC, no one wants to do the job. The weekly begging proves this. Map movements show this.

Quote

so any large squad can simply dictate where AO's are placed by a "vote"? That's mob rule not leadership.

So some person that took an online test given by god knows who tells me where to play? You go there because i told you to.

If theres no FMS to spawn from, too bad.

If the town is camped, too bad.

If your attacking and getting mowed down and cant get to town, too bad.

 

No disrespect but you were gone for almost 6 years due to your forum posting and your here beating the TOE drum?

Edited by Pittpete
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13 minutes ago, E7usn said:

LOL so any large squad can simply dictate where AO's are placed by a "vote"? That's mob rule not leadership.
Town supply is taking a giant step BACKWARDS.

You haven't read anything Hatch has said. 

The HC's IMO have lost sight of what there purpose is. This is due in part to a loss of numbers. Removing them is not the answer and letting the entire player base have access to HC "tools" is a recipe for disaster. 

Um... this is already the case, only nobody is on when it's time to move supply around later and the line crumbles.

 

The big squads already get to choose AOs, because the HC are A: mostly squad members, and B: When two or three influential squad leaders send a PM, HC is only too happy to give an AO.

 

What we're talking about is when NO HC is on. That the system should be able to manage itself and when nobody in HC is on, players can direct the action more. 

Why sit and let SYSTEM place AOs on worthless targets with depleted supply? There isn't even a check in place to keep a spent flag from being used by a SYSTEM placed AO!!!

 

 

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