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Brigade Removal Frozen for Steam "Early Access"

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Capco
5 minutes ago, potthead said:

60-40 is NOT a domination as u like to make everyone believe.... (not that I care even - because POST TOE .. there has never been BALANCE.. NEVER .. on neither side) 

So TOE helps the allied side so much and brought balance.? . how come the worst period of baby seal clubbing for allied was in TOE ? .. how come the only way for allies to win is for Whips to move over? (this is what many allies were saying few maps ago)

1 victory in 1 year against 10 Axis victories in same 12 month period.. .. ouch .. talk about baby seals.. and other victories mainly due to Axis squads coming allied for a visit?

The argument of TOE bringing balance is Bull[censored].. it is CRAP game that gives the outcome to A FEW HC and takes away the game from Squad and PLAYERS . 

It has been a CANCER that has slowly killed them game. you sound very selfish when u talk about what u hate on 1.36 when OJ likes come back and demand from u to give them AO on sedan instead of Lueven or whatever YOU want.

I can see no better outcome for this game than BIG BIG MEGA squads having fun and playing against each-other to the cost of fun of the HC players...

Still ignores 2001 to 2003, but okay.  60-40 is not fair and balanced either. 

 

Again, look at the overall campaign tallies in the total history.  It's almost 50/50.  It wouldn't have been that way without TOEs.  

 

There has never been a campaign where the underpop side won pre-TOEs, but there have been such campaigns with TOEs.  I led one of them.  

 

Is it a half-azzed balancing mechanism as part of a crappy system?  Absolutely.  But the above results speak for themselves, and once TOEs departs, a new balance mechanism will need to take its place.

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potthead
5 minutes ago, Capco said:

 

 

As HC officer, we have a responsibility to serve both our side and keep the health of the game in mind.  What if an unconnected portion of the playerbase has been working towards one goal, but then a mega squad logs on and demands something somewhere else.  At that point, you have to pick sides within your own side.  That is not serving the playerbase.  You lecture me about serving players and yet that is exactly the source of my concern here.  

 

The first example is one of symbiosis, of two organizations working together.  Each campaign is a dynamic, living organism in the sense that they are constantly ebbing and flowing.  Squad nights last hours.  The Brussels area can be hit first because it's riper.  Sedan can be hit later because it will be ripe then.  Everyone can get what they want if they just work together.  

 

In the second example, one group of players is dictating to the rest of the side what to do and how to do it simply by virtue of their size and not by virtue of a sense of duty to their side and the health of the game.  They take no such pledge the way HC do when they agree to the Officer Articles of Conduct.  Regardless of how good of a leader I am or how good my idea or how bad their idea is or how many others outside of their squad will suffer for it, that mega squad will end up getting its way.  I would never fight such a large group and always concede for the very reasons saronin listed.  But that concession can come at the cost of other portions of the playerbase.  

 

It's not about HC getting their way.  It's about HC providing leadership and direction.  

 

It is About HC wanting to HOLD control and not letting a large number of players having fun ...

Thus large number of players leave and game loses money 

Then there are those little pocket of players you talk about left and their HC .. which is what we have now...

Virtue of their SIZE is more than enough... it is 100 players each paying money to go play in SEDAN .. not to be chess pawns in your game in Lueven 

As one of the BEST HC officers in this game... I know how to provide FUN to ALL ... I have NEVER been in a situation where denying a large group of players is in the best interest of the game or the side.... temptation to deny them as it is against what I WANT ... sure that exists and i can see how you can try to spin it to say anything else..

 

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potthead
2 minutes ago, Capco said:

Still ignores 2001 to 2003, but okay.  60-40 is not fair and balanced either. 

 

Again, look at the overall campaign tallies in the total history.  It's almost 50/50.  It wouldn't have been that way without TOEs.  

 

There has never been a campaign where the underpop side won pre-TOEs, but there have been such campaigns with TOEs.  I led one of them.  

 

Is it a half-azzed balancing mechanism as part of a crappy system?  Absolutely.  But the above results speak for themselves, and once TOEs departs, a new balance mechanism will need to take its place.

 

domination is .. losing in 12 months .. ALL the 10-12 maps EXCEPT 1.....

domination is .... having to have WHIPS every few maps to have a token pity victory  to make the 50-50 you talk about....

anyways...  beating a dead horse here... 

Enjoy playing (well don't even look like you play wwiionline anymore anyways.. so enjoy foruming) 

 

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potthead
7 minutes ago, Capco said:

Is it a half-azzed balancing mechanism as part of a crappy system?  Absolutely.  But the above results speak for themselves, and once TOEs departs, a new balance mechanism will need to take its place.

let the OJ and big squads have fun .. and the balance will be there... 

try to force them to go to Lueven instead of Sedan ....  then u will have to wait for Whips to come over to have another win.. 

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Capco
2 minutes ago, potthead said:

 

It is About HC wanting to HOLD control and not letting a large number of players having fun ...

Thus large number of players leave and game loses money 

Then there are those little pocket of players you talk about left and their HC .. which is what we have now...

Virtue of their SIZE is more than enough... it is 100 players each paying money to go play in SEDAN .. not to be chess pawns in your game in Lueven 

As one of the BEST HC officers in this game... I know how to provide FUN to ALL ... I have NEVER been in a situation where denying a large group of players is in the best interest of the game or the side.... temptation to deny them as it is against what I WANT ... sure that exists and i can see how you can try to spin it to say anything else..

 

And what about the 50 other players who have been working their butts off towards Leuven?  Now I just have to tell them to pound sand for the sake of the other 100?

 

You know very well that sometimes you'll have more AO requests thrown at you than you have AOs for potthead.  You've been in that same position as the rest of us where we have to make tough choices.  I always try to accommodate everyone just like you (I actually learned a lot about your map style from Mattwitt).  But you can't always make everyone happy.  

 

But a mega squad can get in the way of that just as much as they can help it, if they are unwilling to work with the rest of their side just because they have a sense of superiority.  

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Capco
2 minutes ago, potthead said:

let the OJ and big squads have fun .. and the balance will be there... 

try to force them to go to Lueven instead of Sedan ....  then u will have to wait for Whips to come over to have another win.. 

I would never force them.  I would ask to them to work with the rest of us.  But I can't say no to that many players, even if it hurts others.  

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potthead
1 minute ago, Capco said:

I would never force them.  I would ask to them to work with the rest of us.  But I can't say no to that many players, even if it hurts others.  

for the sake of civility.. i really have to stop ...

I think we have lost the plot here..  

we are both obviously very passionate.

this is turning into a anti-climate change vs pro-climate change debate :D or a pro-abortion vs pro-life

I am probably guilty for taking it too far ... 

S!

long live wwiionline that makes people so passionate

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Silky

Please keep discussion civil guys 

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Capco

Apologies commie overlords.  

 

And apologies to the other posters for ruffling any feathers.  I'm not a power-hungry demagogue, just a guy who wants to see the best for his side, this game, and this community.  

 

I look forward to the challenges that 1.36 will bring.  We'll get through this final hump and get rid of TOEs once and for all.  I believe.  

 

S!

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sorella
2 hours ago, potthead said:

 

this is turning into a anti-climate change vs pro-climate change debate :D or a pro-abortion vs pro-life

S!

long live wwiionline that makes people so passionate

If this were OT we'd be discussing climate change, abortion AND trains and girls all at the same time in the same thread.

Agree on the passion here - but personal perspectives warp the discussion a bit. The rather egocentric claims about HC, Mega Squads, WHIPS, Potthead, OJ and Capco etc etc ignore the bulk of regular, subscribing players back when and now (however meaningless you think we may be to the game) and other big and small squads who have come and gone plus other leaders on both sides including those from Fenir to Karellean to Dfadd who have won their fair share of map-moving victories pre and post TOEs, and no matter who switched sides.  Plus it doesn't bode well if Mosizlak is pissed off. 

Some new, young outside-the-game mega squads have already come here over the last five years to try the game (including two of mine, a Korean squad from ARMA and a Russian PVP game guild)  mostly for a campaign or less - all have left - citing one of two reasons:

1. bad graphics
2. its too  hard as a pvp game

None of them cared about HC, TOEs, AOs, Mega Squads or any other squad.  

Lets see what happens with the young people and Steam. Whatever it is, it will be weird and they'll be a whole lot of new voices who either love or hate the game. Lets hope some of the passion for the game sticks with some of them. 

As you say, long live the game and long live the Queen. S! 

  

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Silky
35 minutes ago, sorella said:

If this were OT we'd be discussing climate change, abortion AND trains and girls all at the same time in the same thread.

Agree on the passion here - but personal perspectives warp the discussion a bit. The rather egocentric claims about HC, Mega Squads, WHIPS, Potthead, OJ and Capco etc etc ignore the bulk of regular, subscribing players back when and now (however meaningless you think we may be to the game) and other big and small squads who have come and gone plus other leaders on both sides including those from Fenir to Karellean to Dfadd who have won their fair share of map-moving victories pre and post TOEs, and no matter who switched sides.  Plus it doesn't bode well if Mosizlak is pissed off. 

Some new, young outside-the-game mega squads have already come here over the last five years to try the game (including two of mine, a Korean squad from ARMA and a Russian PVP game guild)  mostly for a campaign or less - all have left - citing one of two reasons:

1. bad graphics
2. its too  hard as a pvp game

None of them cared about HC, TOEs, AOs, Mega Squads or any other squad.  

Lets see what happens with the young people and Steam. Whatever it is, it will be weird and they'll be a whole lot of new voices who either love or hate the game. Lets hope some of the passion for the game sticks with some of them. 

As you say, long live the game and long live the Queen. S! 

  

That's actually a great point. We obsess over supply mechanics but our concerns can be distilled down to simpler points that probably deserve more focus 

 

 

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kuronyra
1 hour ago, Silky said:

That's actually a great point. We obsess over supply mechanics but our concerns can be distilled down to simpler points that probably deserve more focus 

 

 

More vehicles could be a great point. Some people play war thunder because of the variety of vehicle for example.

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major0noob

newest ground vehicles will be sniped by riflemen... not like the axis lmg vs A13, or the ATR's, they're even easier to kill than ATG's.

letting any inf kill vehicles is a development goal now, I'm not joking.

 

we've been barking up that tree a few months ago.

 

 

 

@potthead and @Capco

you guys went too deep into it

problem was:

the number of HC on

how many are active

and HC population

 

they're all low, in the 0-1 guy range...

they'll need to stop being soo picky if they want a HC population, even letting enemies work on the other side. hell they may need to pull under rank 5 guys, either are better than nothing.

Edited by major0noob

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kuronyra
43 minutes ago, major0noob said:

newest ground vehicles will be sniped by riflemen... not like the axis lmg vs A13, or the ATR's, they're even easier to kill than ATG's.

letting any inf kill vehicles is a development goal now, I'm not joking.

 

we've been barking up that tree a few months ago.

Yeah, but when I speak about new vehicles. I don't speak about the tiny trucks and stuff like that.

 

I talk about P.51 Mustang, more Focker Wulf.

Tanks like the Hetzer or the Sherman Jumbo with a 75mm gun. I speak about the Panther. I speak about the Renault FT-17 that was used.

I also speak about BT boats with torpedo that could actually be used against destroyer and finally give a fighting chance when a EDD is around and no Ally DD is spawnable.

Not a lot of people when viewing this game for the first time won't really take a look at the infantry, but they will mainly look at the vehicles that are available ingame. THAT is one of the reason that will keep people in, because they want to try out theses vehicles. And for that they will need to learn the gameplay AND thus also trying the infantry ground and learn the whole game.

 

But we are going off subject here.

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petie

This entire thread is capo vs everyone else. 

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Silky
10 minutes ago, petie said:

This entire thread is capo vs everyone else. 

Even if that's true, that doesn't disqualify his opinion or make it incorrect

 

 

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Silky

I posted this a few years ago

And the key aspect in reality is that the game should reward the players more, in terms of increasing survivability and allowing more players more chance to feel like they're actively engaged in a battle before they're killed and that session ends.

 

To really capture players, there's got to be more to the game than spawn in, run around a bit, then die to an enemy you don't see, didn't know was there, before you've even fired a shot

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sorella

5 Paths to Glory is very good analysis and solution. And/but: 

"To really capture players, there's got to be more to the game than spawn in, run around a bit, then die to an enemy you don't see, didn't know was there, before you've even fired a shot"

> the above is a new player's game experience for the first month at least. we could cut it down to a week if a player joins a squad that has time to teach and guide new players (but most hardcore pvp guilds/clans/squads don't accept raw, new players - they have to learn themselves or figure stuff out with a less structured squad or - as in many other pvp games - watch youtube or twitch or esport videos of how its done )

> so back to the broader point - this game is very very hard and difficult on the personal 'I want to win and kill stuff and not die all the time' pvp level - for a new player and even for a squad/clan experienced in other pvp games. this difficulty is both the attraction and the flaw. 

> beyond that, its capture the flag. and further down the dungeon, capture the bunker. and at the end of the dungeon, the big boss - capture the factories.

> and everything else y'all are discussing is just chrome -  brigades, hc, toes, town supply, rear area resupply, ao's, fbs, fms, blow a bridge, cut a road, whatever. and younger players don't care much about that chrome but they might care about the shinier chrome which we don't have much of - cool planes, tanks and guns, pop up screens on achievements, meaningless but cool auto in-game medals for achievements, stat leaderboards for players and squads, etc. etc. etc. 

> and guess what? it never gets easier because there's no way to buy stuff, steal stuff, get stuff or grind stuff like in every other game. the grind here is in just learning how to play well. alone and with others. 

> none of this means don't fix the mechanics and town supply etc. it just means we and CRS are in for a wild ride and harsh reality come Steam. and yeah, it might be wiser if Xoom and Co could figure out a way to slow-hand the release in phases to get 1.36 done sooner than later. because a deeper understanding and enjoyment of the game only comes over time playing and we may not get that time from the new players if we ain't really ready. 

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Lob12
10 hours ago, potthead said:

60-40 is NOT a domination as u like to make everyone believe.... (not that I care even - because POST TOE .. there has never been BALANCE.. NEVER .. on neither side

 

Such a retarded statement potthead

9 hours ago, Silky said:

Please keep discussion civil guys 

oups

The whole OJ thing wasn't bashing him by the way... its just that he got forums famous for bashing HC/TOEs for years. You think SG will come back? lol they're playing WoW ffs. No ones coming back.

My squad is also gone, after 12 years of activity. Not because of TOES. And they're also never coming back for 100 reasons. 

 

Edited by Lob12
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Lob12
3 hours ago, Silky said:

Even if that's true, that doesn't disqualify his opinion or make it incorrect

 

 

Especially since most of the no names in here never lead anything, that I know of.

I lol'd really hard at saronin trying to make capco appear like he wants to be "over" people. Capco probably has one of the most collegiate style of command out there.

Squads like AEF, Allfor, LANCERS, 4 wings etc etc. they all had our ears when we were in AHC.

Difference is people like OJ wanted everybody to ask "how high?" when he said jump.

Edited by Lob12
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petie
3 hours ago, Silky said:

Even if that's true, that doesn't disqualify his opinion or make it incorrect

 

 

No it does not. But it would be bad business model to cater to the lower end of the populace.

For the game to survive it needs to go in the direction of the many not the few.

Clearly the many want rid of flags,and some have already voted with their wallets  

 

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Lob12
10 hours ago, potthead said:

 

 

 

 

As one of the BEST HC officers in this game... 

 

Nice tactical use of caps lock. rofl

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Lob12
10 minutes ago, petie said:

 

Edited by Lob12

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saronin
2 hours ago, Lob12 said:

Especially since most of the no names in here never lead anything, that I know of.

I lol'd really hard at saronin trying to make capco appear like he wants to be "over" people. Capco probably has one of the most collegiate style of command out there.

Squads like AEF, Allfor, LANCERS, 4 wings etc etc. they all had our ears when we were in AHC.

Difference is people like OJ wanted everybody to ask "how high?" when he said jump.

Only you would mistake HC for "leading".  LOL OMG LOL OMG LOL LOLLOLOLOLOLL

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kazee

Speaking of the topic where HC or large squads decide on what town to attack, I remember very well we had this issue many many years ago.

Schilling (ex-GHC CinC) and channel 94 butted heads several times on this issue, and channel 94 went Allied for a few maps because they didnt want to follow GHC advice or suggestions. 

Now it is a delicate issue and I can see both sides of the issue here; personally if I was in HC and large squads wanted to attack a certain town, I would let them do whatever they wanted and try to make sure they had supply. My main goal would be to keep them online as long as possible and to achieve as many caps as possible even if its not in the right area of the map, my job as HC officer would be to shift things around to where they wanted to attack.

But it is a balancing act and takes a person that is a good negotiator and also a good listener. Schilling was a great guy but a bit abrasive at times and drove channel 94 off and the Axis lost campaigns as a result. 

Final comment is: lets change the rules to NOT allowing a flag to move into a town that is contested  

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