Ltarflak

MG-42

33 posts in this topic

I just realized that the germans dont have the mg-42, In my opinion I think the germans should get the MG-42 from tier 2 and up because early in the war the germans used the mg-34 then switched over to the mg-42 because it was cheaper and faster to manufacture, plus you can also make it so you cant hip fire with it so the player cant spam the weapon. just a thought on german weapons.

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They never really got rid of the MG 34 and in game terms there's not much difference between the two.

 The word from on high is that it's almost certain that all light machine guns will be changed so they can only fire while deployed.

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3 hours ago, brady said:

They never really got rid of the MG 34 and in game terms there's not much difference between the two.

 The word from on high is that it's almost certain that all light machine guns will be changed so they can only fire while deployed.

the minute that happens then bye bye for me.

It was possible to shoot from hip, they shouldn't make it so it isn't, now running and shooting then yes, stop that., but actual shooting from hip no.

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39 minutes ago, petie said:

the minute that happens then bye bye for me.

It was possible to shoot from hip, they shouldn't make it so it isn't, now running and shooting then yes, stop that., but actual shooting from hip no.

Whiners usually win lol.   Buncha pussies. 

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I'm fine with firing from the hip, it's running around and firing so freaking accurately that makes me hate the lmg. I'd be fine with hip firing as long as they get an accurate recoil or at least make it more inaccurate firing while running around

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2 hours ago, birdman26 said:

I'm fine with firing from the hip, it's running around and firing so freaking accurately that makes me hate the lmg. I'd be fine with hip firing as long as they get an accurate recoil or at least make it more inaccurate firing while running around

None of the LMGs are "accurate" from the hip.

Maybe you're just confusing the rate of fire and 50 round capacity and the ODDS of hitting something from the hip and "accuracy".

I wouldn't call them "accurate" when hip fired though. The dispersal... 

 

I've always contended that players shouldn't be able to jog around inside a building firing like Rambo, and I don't believe anyone routinely used them in that way for close quarters combat.

Sure, they were all shoulder fired from time to time, so maybe if they were only restricted from hip firing inside of buildings it would help. 

 

The SMGs need to be a little tighter I think.

 

I'd LOVE to see the MG42, but it was much heavier than the MG34 and needed frequent barrel changes if fired for long periods. 

If the MG42 and and Allied equivalent were brought in, I'd like to see them as a "run to a spot and deploy" type weapon, where the deploy part means a small, sandbag nest with a short timer.

They were for digging in as you went, or digging in as you defended.

 

They weren't as portable as SMGs or rifles, either.

 

Having played both sides, I never saw the LMG on either side as OP. I've seen players on both sides that are good at kamikaze tactics where they run into a cp and are firing before rounding corners, etc.

If you did that IRL you'd probably end up with your own bullet in your leg or torso. Ever shot a 7.92MM, .303 or .30-06? Lots of power there... FMJ rounds that tend to keep on going after ricocheting off of stuff... 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Mosizlak said:

Whiners usually win lol.   Buncha pussies. 

LIES !!! I still have not won my M10 turret speed increased 2x or an additional 25% bonus to its guns penetration...

As for the cato - I am what I eat. :)

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4 minutes ago, stankyus said:

LIES !!! I still have not won my M10 turret speed increased 2x or an additional 25% bonus to its guns penetration...

As for the cato - I am what I eat. :)

Shouldn't you be swooping over a target dropping bombs at 500M altitude in a Havoc right now?

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2 hours ago, vasduten1 said:

None of the LMGs are "accurate" from the hip.

I do crazy insane unrealistic shooting with the Allied LMG's often, you don't need to aim, just sorta will them dead and pull the trigger.

I will be totally fine with them being "deployed Only" (DP)'ed sooner better than later imo.

 

 

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1 hour ago, vasduten1 said:

Shouldn't you be swooping over a target dropping bombs at 500M altitude in a Havoc right now?

I tried that the other day but had Mozinteruptus

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19 hours ago, stankyus said:

I tried that the other day but had Mozinteruptus

Oh, man... you killed me a couple of times doing that until Mo got you.

 

Those DB7s and Havocs...

 

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On 5/31/2017 at 5:35 AM, petie said:

the minute that happens then bye bye for me.

It was possible to shoot from hip, they shouldn't make it so it isn't, now running and shooting then yes, stop that., but actual shooting from hip no.

"Deployment" could mean two or three seconds to stop, set yourself, and prepare to fire from the hip.

That'd be very realistic, other than the readying time being way too short, but it's a game. Other than that it'd be realistic.

"Deployment" doesn't have to mean firing from prone.

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30 minutes ago, jwilly said:

"Deployment" doesn't have to mean firing from prone.

Shur, a window or anywhere else u can deploy the bi-pod...

:)

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Hello All,


Just a couple of clarifications to start with.

As bradly pointed out there would be very little difference between the MG34 and MG42 in game. There are differences however and they are:

  • ROF: MG34 - 600-800rpm approx. MG42 - 900-1200 rpm approx.
  • The MG34 is capable of firing single shots while the MG42 it was up to the experience of the gunner and not part of the gun.
  • Both can use the in-game 50rd saddle magazine (Assault Magazine). The MG34 did have the option of a 75rd version as well.
  • Weights are similar.
  • Both weapons required frequent barrel changing for prolonged continuous fire. Both weapons however were designed with a quick change barrel for this very purpose. From what I have seen the “standard kit” for the crew included 2 spare barrels in a purpose built container.

 

The common use of the LMG designation within WorldWar II Online:
While the in-game weapons labelled as “LMG’s” consist of 4 weapons (American M1918A2 BAR, British Bren Mk II, French FM24/29 and the German MG34), only 2 of them are actually LMG’s. All of them are used in the role of LMG in a World War II context however.

The M1918A2 BAR was pressed into service as a LMG but was actually designed as an Automatic Rifle, not unlike the current German FG42 in-game now. The BAR was a very poor LMG at best, however the American forces did have the M1 Garand as the standard issue semi automatic rifle effectively from the very commencement of their involvement in the war in Europe. This did significantly offset the underperforming LMG they were using.

The German MG34 and MG42 were not LMG’s either. They were a then NEW type of weapon. The GPMG (General Purpose Machine Gun), although GPMG is a post war term. They were very successfully used in the role of LMG’s throughout WWII. They were a bit heavy in that role though.

This leaves the British Bren Mk II, French FM24/29. Both of these weapons were true LMG’s in every sense of the term. Both designed to be capable of “walking fire”, a French practice used from 1916. This was where the gunner advanced along with the bolt action rifle armed infantrymen to provide suppressive fire for the advance/assault. The weapons were significantly lighter and therefore more portable than the then current MG’s in use. Vickers Maximum (British) and the Hotchkiss M1914 MG (French).

 

Here is my take on the “Ramboing of LMG’s”.
I firmly disapprove of the current in-game use of all of the weapons under “LMG” label.

With the given that the BAR and by association the FG42, are Automatic Rifles, these should probably have very little limitation on their use. I would however suggest that running and firing should be extremely difficult/ineffective mostly due to recoil control issues. Significant turning whilst running and firing should be impossible. Shoulder firing would be the same as any Rifle.

The British Bren Mk II, French FM24/29 both should be capable of hip fire from the walk to be consistent their design. Running should prevent any firing at all. These may also be fired from the shoulder although accuracy will be significantly impeded. To keep side capabilities consistent, the introduction of the MG26(t) or MG30(t) to the German small arms list should be considered if not done outright. As an aside the MG30(t) is almost a metric BREN MkII firing 7.92mm Mauser ammunition in place of the British .303 ball.

The MG34 should be restricted to “Hip fire stationary”. No movement (horizontal or vertical) is permitted, save a limited traverse range. Fire while prone without the bipod being deployed should be impossible. The weapon may deploy its bipod and be carried with it extended but if it is deployed “Hip fire stationary” should also be impossible. These restrictions would provide the imperative for the introduction of the MG30(t) to the German arsenal. They would also apply to the “Coming” American M1919A6 and if introduced the MG42 as well.


Cheers
James10

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On 5/31/2017 at 5:35 AM, petie said:

the minute that happens then bye bye for me.

It was possible to shoot from hip, they shouldn't make it so it isn't, now running and shooting then yes, stop that., but actual shooting from hip no.

Nobody ever jogged around hip firing the LMGs actually present in WWII.

 

I just mean that a person should have to stand still for a cpl secs or deploy the bipod to use them. 

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Nevermind hipfire. At least increase the reload time. Right now it is twice as fast as the rifles and the animation is missing a step.

For gameplay and historical reasons that just can't be right. Smgs should be better at close combat than the bigger lmg. 

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On 5/31/2017 at 9:39 AM, brady said:

I do crazy insane unrealistic shooting with the Allied LMG's often, you don't need to aim, just sorta will them dead and pull the trigger.

I will be totally fine with them being "deployed Only" (DP)'ed sooner better than later imo.

 

 

that's as much an effect of there being a single static point of aim as anything else.... in RL there's no way to accurately hit the same spot 1st round unaimed (unless you spend a lot of time practicing (and yes you could get close)).  However in game, even the weapons that aren't centered on screen, the point of aim is the exact same.  

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9 hours ago, B2K said:

that's as much an effect of there being a single static point of aim as anything else.... in RL there's no way to accurately hit the same spot 1st round unaimed (unless you spend a lot of time practicing (and yes you could get close)).  However in game, even the weapons that aren't centered on screen, the point of aim is the exact same.  

I'm not entirely sure I follow exactly what you mean but I think I get it,

What I referred to above is firing the weapon  by simply pointing it in the direction of the enemy, now while it's true that I have had some practice at this I haven't had as much as others have, I am by no means  aiming but I can see instantly were the shots are going and walk them on to the target and they don't even have to be in the same room I can do this with targets across the street in the next building.

if that's what you're referring to by point of aim then yes I agree.

but what I am sure we all know by now from all the videos we have watched and from the  Learned real world experience  of forum members is that these weapons would be impossible to control to anywhere near that extent.

unless deployed on thier bi pods as Mars intended them to be.

 

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On 6/11/2017 at 11:53 PM, brady said:

What I referred to above is firing the weapon  by simply pointing it in the direction of the enemy, now while it's true that I have had some practice at this I haven't had as much as others have, I am by no means  aiming but I can see instantly were the shots are going and walk them on to the target and they don't even have to be in the same room I can do this with targets across the street in the next building.

if that's what you're referring to by point of aim then yes I agree.

Essentially - Or simply learning where the hip fired shot will land on your screen and firing as that point lines up with whatever target.

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On 6/10/2017 at 4:09 PM, vasduten1 said:

Nobody ever jogged around hip firing the LMGs actually present in WWII.

If i had to guess, they probably did not jog around shooting a KAR98 or a 308 much either.

Walk maybe.
Perhaps that is the ticket

The game has a walk function, tie the lmg shooting in motion to having to be in walk mode, otherwise you get the no no shakes

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Considering the famous nature of the MG42, I would call this a game-crippling problem.

add the MG42 in time for steam release to increase chances of retaining players 9999%.

also rethink the whole "im sorry, you cannot stand up because youve opened your bipod" mechanic to reduce 50% of ragequits - have you ever actually used a bipod? you can just pick it up you know...

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21 minutes ago, spargel said:

also rethink the whole "im sorry, you cannot stand up because youve opened your bipod" mechanic to reduce 50% of ragequits - have you ever actually used a bipod? you can just pick it up you know...

Have to agree with the man, I have taken an M60, and run with it to the next position, and i didnt bother folding the bipod.
I did not shoot it while running, that would have been both laughable and dangerous to anyone near me, but i definitely ran with it, bipod down, belt dangling and all.
So artificially pinning the MG42 with that is a hard pill to take because you are kind of nailed to the ground, you cant even run away, but making it only fireable in motion at WALK speed or even CROUCHED if that is easier to code, would work i think?

For that matter i have run with Ma Deuce on her tripod
Now by run, we actually mean shuffle, while the other guy is dragging the ammo box and the barrel bag, cause that thing is heavy and clumsy.
And NO you wouldnt even try to shoot it, unless you fancy it flying out of your hands

I fear the MG42 will get wasted in game though (which is no reason not to add it)
It belongs sandbagged, or in a fortified bunker PPO, with some riflemen defending it, and a ton of extra ammo, where it can enforce a suppressive zone of control.
Im kind of not envisioning it getting that, im picturing guys trying to run around ramboing it and getting shot to pieces by rifle fire.

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The MG 42 must be added in the LMG role, it's too iconic not to , I would follow Redorchestra Example:

- MG 34 - Can we shot while walking and standing by holding the bipod as a grip this is very innaccurate but adds some survivability to close encounters movements.

- MG 42 - Can only be shot on the prone position, despite that real WW2 german soldiers did shoot and had techniques to shoot from the standing position the MG 42 but this was rare, cumbersome and innaccurated it also works to offset the double size of ammo from the 100 belt vs the Mg 34 50 Round Mag

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Dont have an Mg42 but the M60 is very similar, it was based on the MG42, and it i have lots of experience with

It is capable is being fired from the hip so to speak< it is a less than optimal situation though
You will not be sprinting or jogging, unless like the man above said, you fancy shooting your self, your squad mates, random objects.
It's heavy, it's clumsy when used in that aspect, it's awkward as hell shooting it like that.
If you were using it in a standing support role, you most likely would stop and fire, and wish you could find a nice sand bag
At best you'd move forward at a crawling pace because the thing wants to jump all over, and its about all you can do to keep it and your arms and upper body stable.
Your accuracy would be right out the window, it would be solely a suppressive spray and pray function.

Using it as the means of walking into a building, is probably not one of the first things that would enter your mind, unless you are thinking of stupid ideas.

Dont get me wrong, it isnt a crappy weapon, it simply is not designed for use as a personal shoulder arm.
For a machinegun, it is light super portable, deploy virtually anyplace etc, as a rifle though, not so much.

I do not imagine the MG34 is a ton better in those aspects
1200px-Mg_34.jpg

I dont know that i would lock out moving at all, I hate having to break something entirely, but i would lock it to only in the walk speed, or crouched walk speed, and if you sprint to get inside, there would be a delay (simulating getting the damned thing into some semblance of a firing position) before you could recover and fire.
So if you sprint into someplace and expect to just instantly whip it out and lay waste, you find yourself with nothing but a pickle in your hand.

Another thing i would fix with LMGs is setting the range to 1000m to tighten the from the hip shot group, that really shouldnt work since all we are doing is raising the rear sight, not doing cybernetic arm implants:lol:

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there're 2 bs threads about the MG34 hip firing somewhere else, go there. there are better arguments.

 

IMO the 34 & 42 are similar enough to ignore the 42. can work on better things like the Johnson LMG, American paras, and the current M1 carbine / stg44 / Italian inf.

not to mention ooooold issues with current units like the auto's flash, .22cal recoil behaving like .50AE, and useless grenadiers

Edited by major0noob
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