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vasduten1

Campaign 139 Changes!

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vasduten1

First off, excited to see SOME relief on these topics. 

From Xoom:

 

CAMPAIGN 139 CHANGES INCOMING

With the news of 1.36 being frozen until after we get onto Steam's early access, there has been a lot of community discussion about what we're going to do here at CRS to help the situation as it is now. In light of those discussions it has become even more evident we need faster solutions brought to the table that work to relieve the HC officer's and our player base. So after careful consideration of player presented ideas and internal discussion, we have come up with the following to get started:

  1. Re-supply timers (this means when a unit is used, the time it takes for RDP to rebuild it)
    1. Currently: 15 Hours
    2. Change to: 10 hours
  2. Time a flag is training
    1. Currently: 12 hours
    2. Change to: 6 hours
  3. Allow HC to manually send cut off flag to training
    1. Currently requires 10% supply availability
    2. Changing to 50% supply availability
  4. Trickle in supply timer for brigade movements
    1. Current standards
      1. 15 minutes for total re-supply
      2. 1 minute before first trickle
      3. 20 units per trickle
    2. Changing to
      1. 30 minutes for total re-supply
      2. 1 minute before first trickle
      3. 20 units per trickle
  5. Brigade movement timers
    1. Frontline - rear line
      1. Currently: 60 minutes
      2. Change to: 30 minutes
    2. Rear-rear line
      1. Currently: 30 minutes
      2. Change to: 15 minutes

We are still considering other options however these are the solutions that are currently on the table.

Justifications include:

  1. Re-supply timers: This will reduce the burden on officers having to rotate flags routinely. It will also provide more time zones with adequate supply that could've been expended earlier in the day.
  2. Time flag is in training: A flag in training for 1/2 a day can be devastating to securing the lines. We want these flags returned to the front in a reasonable time frame.
  3. Allow HC to manually route their flag(s): If you are faced in an impossible situation to un-route your flags, we want to allow HC officers a quicker ability to execute this. Same strategy as point #2.
  4. Trickle in supply: We think 15 minutes might be too quick for brigades to re-stock their supply to 100% after a brigade has been moved. So we want to slow that process down and determine its effect.
  5. Brigade movement timers: Anything on the front-front doesn't change, but we want officers to be able to cover any strategic blunders more rapidly. If the enemy has exposed your lines and you are in a retreat you should be able to cover that faster than what we currently offer.

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vasduten1

I wonder though... While this reflects a good change on these items, could an army REALLY move supply in even a half hour after the order to go from town A to town B?

Still, slowing the trickle will no doubt make the magic warp of supply a lot less instant.

 

What about when no HC is on at all? 

@XOOM

 

Any stop gap measures for that?

 

Also, the unkillable units and floating/hovering... has that been caught yet and are there any solutions?

 

 

Thanks for the great work, I know this is a crazy-hectic time and that you are all getting to what you can; when you can.

 

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XOOM
52 minutes ago, vasduten1 said:

What about when no HC is on at all? 

We have a couple of options on the table, one of which we're leaning towards and is being designed on paper / filtered prior to conducting work on it. We recognize that this remains one of the core issues.

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vasduten1
1 hour ago, XOOM said:

We have a couple of options on the table, one of which we're leaning towards and is being designed on paper / filtered prior to conducting work on it. We recognize that this remains one of the core issues.

Glad to hear this.

 

 

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delems

If you are cutting RDP timers like that, you need to cut all supply in every flag in half.  Fractions rounded up.

There will be way way too much supply on map now.

 

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Capco

I'm happy with a lot of these changes.  I think the trickle timer should be a little longer, but I also didn't expect movement timers to drop either.  

 

#3 is really clever.  I didn't know that threshold could be changed.  Very cool.

 

Those movement timers are going to be... interesting.  Just to note though, if you move a flag backline to backline, it will be off timers and ready to move again before all the supply has trickled in.  The system will still keep track of those units that haven't arrived yet though, right?

 

One other thing to note:  it is faster to resupply a brigade by getting it cut off than by letting it get resupplied naturally from the factories.  Let's say a battle commences and the Axis cut off some Allied flags.  The Axis supply will take 10 hours to come back from that battle, but the Allies will get their brigades back in 6 hours at fully supply, giving them a 4-hour window to counterattack.  My point is, "brigade resupply timers" should always be equal "flags returning from training" timers.  8 hour resupply timers and 8 hour training timers would be perfect I think.

 

Were the supply tables adjusted at all to compensate for the resupply timer drop, @XOOM?

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delems

*** Still, slowing the trickle will no doubt make the magic warp of supply a lot less instant.

Eh, maybe, not sure.  With flags moving twice as fast, that negates the 1/2 trickle.  Warping flags might even be worse now.

 

*** The Axis supply will take 10 hours to come back from that battle, but the Allies will get their brigades back in 6 hours at fully supply

I like the flags coming back from training faster than attacker getting supply back... allows for the (usually) losing side to maybe counter attack weaker flags.

 

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delems

And, if we are trying all these new changes, we really need to bump the vis range to 800, if not 1000.  Test it now.

 

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monsjoex

Trickle timer will have hardly any effect sorry to say. Its only from 15 to 30 and the damage is already done as soon as you have the new flag in. After 2 min youll have the first fresh tank spawn, 2 min after another one. 

You would have to have a significant delay until trickle starts for it to have effect. i.e. 15-30 min before the first supply arrives. Which complicates the HC game however.

But the changes all over the board are probably good. at a minimum it spices up the game.

Edited by monsjoex

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Capco
58 minutes ago, monsjoex said:

Trickle timer will have hardly any effect sorry to say. Its only from 15 to 30 and the damage is already done as soon as you have the new flag in. After 2 min youll have the first fresh tank spawn, 2 min after another one. 

You would have to have a significant delay until trickle starts for it to have effect. i.e. 15-30 min before the first supply arrives. Which complicates the HC game however.

If we are talking about needing infantry immediately, the trickle timers will help.  But if we are talking about breaking through a camped AB with a Matty, then yes, the trickle timers themselves won't have much effect.  

 

It's a shame we can't add specific equipment-based delays, so that armor can't arrive for the first 10-15 minutes but the infantry still trickles in slowly after 1min.  

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delems

None of this matters when no HC are on or they don't know how to move flags.

 

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vasduten1
On 6/10/2017 at 1:43 PM, delems said:

If you are cutting RDP timers like that, you need to cut all supply in every flag in half.  Fractions rounded up.

There will be way way too much supply on map now.

 

Honestly, I really don't think WWIIOL truly reflects the numbers of units on actual WWII battlefields and in particular, THIS theater of operations.

There were massive amounts of men, artillery, tanks, planes and supply chains/rear echelon. 

The only way to put a semi-accurate representation to the "front" in this game with the current system is to have flags be stocked well.

 

On 6/10/2017 at 6:12 PM, delems said:

And, if we are trying all these new changes, we really need to bump the vis range to 800, if not 1000.  Test it now.

 

At LEAST! I want to be able to see squishies on the ground!!!

 

On 6/10/2017 at 10:39 PM, Capco said:

If we are talking about needing infantry immediately, the trickle timers will help.  But if we are talking about breaking through a camped AB with a Matty, then yes, the trickle timers themselves won't have much effect.  

 

It's a shame we can't add specific equipment-based delays, so that armor can't arrive for the first 10-15 minutes but the infantry still trickles in slowly after 1min.  

I 'd rather not give either side's HC the ability to check off "X number of Tigers" or "X number of S76s" to have priority spawning. You capture all but the AB, through hard work, organization and a 2-3 hr effort, and then Tigers or S76s start spawning first?!? Or X number of SMGs?

Nah.

On 6/10/2017 at 2:23 PM, delems said:

*** The Axis supply will take 10 hours to come back from that battle, but the Allies will get their brigades back in 6 hours at fully supply

 

Oh, god.. I hope not. 

 

That would be pretty bad. Why should a team be rewarded for magic warping brigades to and from training only to have fresh FULL supply once they get back?!?

I never saw anything like that in the list, and as far as I know, whether a flag is in training or not, the supply from factories is still regulated by factory strength, right?

 

 

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Capco
31 minutes ago, vasduten1 said:

I 'd rather not give either side's HC the ability to check off "X number of Tigers" or "X number of S76s" to have priority spawning. You capture all but the AB, through hard work, organization and a 2-3 hr effort, and then Tigers or S76s start spawning first?!? Or X number of SMGs?

Nah.

That's not what I meant at all.  Quite the opposite in fact.  I meant for CRS to add fixed-delays to certain equipment.

 

Right now with trickle timers, every unit type in the list trickles in immediately.  In other words, the first 12 riflemen out of 200 arrive after one minute, but so does the 1 Matty out of the 1 Matties lol.  

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vasduten1
On 6/12/2017 at 11:12 AM, Capco said:

That's not what I meant at all.  Quite the opposite in fact.  I meant for CRS to add fixed-delays to certain equipment.

 

Right now with trickle timers, every unit type in the list trickles in immediately.  In other words, the first 12 riflemen out of 200 arrive after one minute, but so does the 1 Matty out of the 1 Matties lol.  

Ah, I misunderstood. 

 

Thanks for clarifying that point.

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Capco
1 hour ago, vasduten1 said:

Ah, I misunderstood. 

 

Thanks for clarifying that point.

All good buddy S!

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XOOM

What's all this civil productive discussion going on in here? Don't you all know this is the forums!? ;) good job guys!

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vasduten1

That's it!!! I quit this POS game!!!!

 

 

I'm sick of being flamed in the forums ENDLESSLY by XOOM!!!!!

Bias HAXXXXXXXXX

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:)

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B2K

w00t now i can issue a tos... :P

 

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vasduten1

hahahaha!

Yeah, XOOM's been getting rowdier and rowdier around here... Better give him a warning.

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stankyus

Resupply timers at 10 hours, training to 6 hours at 50% supply, and movement timers to for rear brigs to 15 minutes.

SO in essence its will be much more efficient to speed up tickets by sending brigades which can self deploy to training, than to let them resupply. THEN when they come back they can be moved to the front line in... 15 minutes?  SO you effectively cut the resupply timer by 3:45 hrs to 6 hours and 15 minutes.  Why not just decrease the resupply timer to 6:15hrs and be done with it?

 

Delems is correct in his thoughts, you would have to cut brigade supply.  Capco is on to something about trickle supply being subject to item.  I would expand on that idea of trickle supply being actually transferred. IN otherwords if you take a town your FB stays up and the supply remains from the attacking towns division and transfers by item over.  So if you have 200 infantry left in the attacking town and 20 infantry trickle in to the new town, the supply at the attacking town is still available to create missions from but would decrease from 200 infantry to 180 infantry until supply has moved. Otherwise if you increase trickle time to 30 minutes you have essentially erased a brigade from the map for an aggregate of 30 minutes.  30 minutes can be an AO, Plus first cap, plus AB bunker for a counter attack with more supply that is readily available.

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delems

I don't think the issue of sending a unit to training for 6 hours and getting full supply back is worth it in general.

Though, I can possibly see how this is gamed, especially during low pop times.  But, tbh, not sure many of the current HC would know how to properly take advantage of it.

Also, if one did do this, and the gamble failed, it could be disastrous for that HC person specifically, if not the side.

That all being said, I'm sure there would be times a clever HC could take advantage of that type of move and capitalize on it immensely.

Be interesting to see who is first (and side) in moving flags to training early.

 

*** Otherwise if you increase trickle time to 30 minutes you have essentially erased a brigade from the map for an aggregate of 30 minutes

Don't think you are seeing this correctly, or I'm missing your point.  Currently, when a flag moves, 15 min later all the supply is in town.

All they are doing is changing it so it takes 30 min to get all the supply.

You will still have supply into the just moved flag 1 min later.  A moved flag won't be empty but for 1 min, just like today.

Edited by delems

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Boudreau

XOOM, please have the sniper stats based only on number of kill vs number of deaths.  :angry:;)S!

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stankyus
15 minutes ago, delems said:

I don't think the issue of sending a unit to training for 6 hours and getting full supply back is worth it in general.

Though, I can possibly see how this is gamed, especially during low pop times.  But, tbh, not sure many of the current HC would know how to properly take advantage of it.

Also, if one did do this, and the gamble failed, it could be disastrous for that HC person specifically, if not the side.

That all being said, I'm sure there would be times a clever HC could take advantage of that type of move and capitalize on it immensely.

Be interesting to see who is first (and side) in moving flags to training early.

 

*** Otherwise if you increase trickle time to 30 minutes you have essentially erased a brigade from the map for an aggregate of 30 minutes

Don't think you are seeing this correctly, or I'm missing your point.  Currently, when a flag moves, 15 min later all the supply is in town.

All they are doing is changing it so it takes 30 min to get all the supply.

You will still have supply into the just moved flag 1 min later.  A moved flag won't be empty but for 1 min, just like today.

I already know how to game the brig to training thing, though not gonna share it but your on to part of the equation. Supply time for primetime.

 

One other thing, we used to be able to self deploy to training up until we had a fella HC officer send all the brigades to training as a coup de gras for unsubbing from the game.

 

The trickle time was in context with capcos idea of trickle time according to item... there would need to be a middle ground where supply trickle would act more like a convoy system even if part of it is invisible, people could bring supply up and speed things along with the system.

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braum

We missed one tier this camp, anything made to amend this? ( I blame the cap times , but fixing it my be just in the manual triggering based on the situation rather than increasing cap times)

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XOOM
17 hours ago, Boudreau said:

XOOM, please have the sniper stats based only on number of kill vs number of deaths.  :angry:;)S!

I'll mention it to the team and see what they say.

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