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vasduten1

Campaign 139 Changes!

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karellean

Mixed response to the planned changes:

 

 

 

1.      15 Hours to 10 Hours Resupply

-- Generally good... 15 hours was a little long, and heavy RDP making it 25-30 hours, stands to be silly....  

-- The time to resupply tickets... is all relevant to the levels of supply in lists, and the current populations burn rate...

At present levels on lists, and current burn rates  around 12 hours would be right....  THAT said...  I think 10 is ok... If the volume of armour on lists is trimmed downwards a little...

 

2.    12 Hours to 6 Hours for training

-- NOT LIKING THIS ....  A 6 hour training timer, means that flags that got rightfully beaten up in a pocket... come back with full gear faster than the flags that sent them there !!!!!

-- Also in the event of the whole division being routed you can warp that anywhere !!!!   

-- Neither of the above seems fair  -- it almost rewards bad game play ......  I think the training timer should MATCH the resupply timer.    (so 10 hours)

 

3. Manual Routing Threshold lifted to 50%

******  This will work well... AS LONG AS THE MANUAL ROUTING IS RESTRICTED TO CUTOFF FLAGS ONLY AND THE TRAINING TIMER MATCHES THE RESUPPLY TICKET TIMES*********

---  IF the Increase Manual Routing Threshold  is not restricted to CUTOFF FLAGS  ONLY, then self-routing at 30/40/50% can definitely can be exploited by a skilled Map OIC            

--- IT BECOMES PARTICULARLY EXPLOITABLE IN COMBINATION WITH 6 HOUR TRAINING TIMERS, AND REDUCED MOVEMENT TIMERS

--- Snipped a whole bunch of info how this could be exploited , it would just bore 90% of people, 

 

4.  Trickle Timers for flags

--- And reality is.... THIS IS WHERE THE TUNING IS NEEDED.... if we want to stop the "FLAG IN - ARMOUR ZERG FLATTENS ATTACK"  --- that will be even more common with reduced movement timers  the trickle timers are what need fixing

Quite a few long time vets have posted above highlighting this, and I am with them.... Trickle adjustment is something really needed....  I believe it needs to MUCH SLOWER than what it is now and halved..... 

-- 60 Mins for full resupply ... 10 units per trickle... armour only trickles every second tick...

 

5. Brigade Movement Timers

-- Carries risk... Its been 7-8 years  since we had 30-15min timers for movement... I believe it was changed , because the elite MAP OIC's could work sides over far more effectively with faster movements.

-- NO Arguement shorter timers improve time to cover defence.... but they also open opportunites for skilled MAP OIC's to exploit weakness.

-- If a side has no MAP OIC and cannot keep up with the rapid moving supply... the whole line could be shifted way out of whack before a MAP OIC logs in to address it

-- With the 1 AO - no softcap rule in place.... it takes just 45 minutes to make a town untouchable but moving to rear.... and and just 15 mins to move back whenever they like....  

GENERALLY SPEAKING --- LONGER TIMERS IS EASIER FOR NEWER MAP OIC's  not shorter timers....    It is why it changed that way to begin with as I understood it... no idea why we would want to go back when many struggle as it is

--- Not necessarily going to make things easier for a side with no Map OIC/weak Map OIC... could well make it worse....


 

 

 

 

 

 

 


 

 

 

 

 

 

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karellean
35 minutes ago, XOOM said:

I'll mention it to the team and see what they say.

If there is opportunity stat tweaking in play.... Can we possibly have Truck Deaths (and any kills by trucks) REMOVED from a persona's  overall KD count...  It skews the numbers horribly for the people who are "driving  the game" (bad pun)    by providing FMS's regularly...   

Its quirky I know... but so is pineapple on pizza....

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bmw
7 minutes ago, karellean said:

If there is opportunity stat tweaking in play.... Can we possibly have Truck Deaths (and any kills by trucks) REMOVED from a persona's  overall KD count...  It skews the numbers horribly for the people who are "driving  the game" (bad pun)    by providing FMS's regularly...   

Its quirky I know... but so is pineapple on pizza....

Not really sure how that would work as your dead as a result of another unit getting the kill credit.  How about a stat for successful FMS's setup?......like we get now for Caps

Edited by bmw

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petie

Trickle needs to be sorted. If you only have 2 Marty's or 2 tigers. You should not get them after 4 minutes. Should be at halfway flag is trickled in you get half your armor supply. Full flag trickle in you get the other half.

So 2 matty's. Would get 1 at 30 minutes the other at 60.

Likewise if you have 8 s35/4D in a flag. You should get 1 every  7.5 minutes not all in that time

 

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Capco
6 minutes ago, petie said:

Trickle needs to be sorted. If you only have 2 Marty's or 2 tigers. You should not get them after 4 minutes. Should be at halfway flag is trickled in you get half your armor supply. Full flag trickle in you get the other half.

So 2 matty's. Would get 1 at 30 minutes the other at 60.

Likewise if you have 8 s35/4D in a flag. You should get 1 every  7.5 minutes not all in that time

Exactly.

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Capco
21 minutes ago, karellean said:

1.      15 Hours to 10 Hours Resupply

-- Generally good... 15 hours was a little long, and heavy RDP making it 25-30 hours, stands to be silly....  

-- The time to resupply tickets... is all relevant to the levels of supply in lists, and the current populations burn rate...

At present levels on lists, and current burn rates  around 12 hours would be right....  THAT said...  I think 10 is ok... If the volume of armour on lists is trimmed downwards a little...

 

2.    12 Hours to 6 Hours for training

-- NOT LIKING THIS ....  A 6 hour training timer, means that flags that got rightfully beaten up in a pocket... come back with full gear faster than the flags that sent them there !!!!!

-- Also in the event of the whole division being routed you can warp that anywhere !!!!   

-- Neither of the above seems fair  -- it almost rewards bad game play ......  I think the training timer should MATCH the resupply timer.    (so 10 hours)

 

3. Manual Routing Threshold lifted to 50%

******  This will work well... AS LONG AS THE MANUAL ROUTING IS RESTRICTED TO CUTOFF FLAGS ONLY AND THE TRAINING TIMER MATCHES THE RESUPPLY TICKET TIMES*********

---  IF the Increase Manual Routing Threshold  is not restricted to CUTOFF FLAGS  ONLY, then self-routing at 30/40/50% can definitely can be exploited by a skilled Map OIC            

--- IT BECOMES PARTICULARLY EXPLOITABLE IN COMBINATION WITH 6 HOUR TRAINING TIMERS, AND REDUCED MOVEMENT TIMERS

--- Snipped a whole bunch of info how this could be exploited , it would just bore 90% of people, 

 

4.  Trickle Timers for flags

--- And reality is.... THIS IS WHERE THE TUNING IS NEEDED.... if we want to stop the "FLAG IN - ARMOUR ZERG FLATTENS ATTACK"  --- that will be even more common with reduced movement timers  the trickle timers are what need fixing

Quite a few long time vets have posted above highlighting this, and I am with them.... Trickle adjustment is something really needed....  I believe it needs to MUCH SLOWER than what it is now and halved..... 

-- 60 Mins for full resupply ... 10 units per trickle... armour only trickles every second tick...

 

5. Brigade Movement Timers

-- Carries risk... Its been 7-8 years  since we had 30-15min timers for movement... I believe it was changed , because the elite MAP OIC's could work sides over far more effectively with faster movements.

-- NO Arguement shorter timers improve time to cover defence.... but they also open opportunites for skilled MAP OIC's to exploit weakness.

-- If a side has no MAP OIC and cannot keep up with the rapid moving supply... the whole line could be shifted way out of whack before a MAP OIC logs in to address it

-- With the 1 AO - no softcap rule in place.... it takes just 45 minutes to make a town untouchable but moving to rear.... and and just 15 mins to move back whenever they like....  

GENERALLY SPEAKING --- LONGER TIMERS IS EASIER FOR NEWER MAP OIC's  not shorter timers....    It is why it changed that way to begin with as I understood it... no idea why we would want to go back when many struggle as it is

--- Not necessarily going to make things easier for a side with no Map OIC/weak Map OIC... could well make it worse....

This is a good breakdown and I agree 100% with the implications offered.  

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XOOM

We don't have any functionality in place to support sorting the trickle, and don't have enough time available to invest in it at the moment.

We'll see how these changes have an effect upcoming here as proposed for this Campaign and analyze what more we need to do.

26 minutes ago, karellean said:

If there is opportunity stat tweaking in play.... Can we possibly have Truck Deaths (and any kills by trucks) REMOVED from a persona's  overall KD count...  It skews the numbers horribly for the people who are "driving  the game" (bad pun)    by providing FMS's regularly...   

Its quirky I know... but so is pineapple on pizza....

I'll mention it to the guys and see if there's anything that could be done.

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usaf77

I cant say I understand all this but I sure hope the maps dont usually end in Tier 1. Or maybe a few days into tier 2.

Many older players like the early tiers, I prefer the later tiers, but its not that. I think the new players were going to hopefully pick up will want to play American too and thats not till when? Tier 3?

There are two things I think would help the game, a shorter Intermission and a faster tier change. One would think the Intermission would help to keep new players since they can use ANY weapon AND accrue points for rank. But even in the games hey day Intermission usually meant smaller crowds. Players want to fight the "real" war.

Edited by usaf77

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Blkhwk8

@XOOM

Thank you for trying something with these times since 1.36 will be delayed.  I'm sure these can be tweaked going forward to iron out kinks.

My thoughts on the brigade routing :

12 hours was way too long. Especially as we get ready for Steam can you imagine new players trying this game and because a division was routed nine hours ago and the rest of the lines supply is beat up with nothing left they would just log. This would not be the case with town based supply.

 

The trickle in timers I like as instead of moving a brigade in to help defense. Use it to resupply from behind the line. You then can intradict the town coming in. We did this in merzig the other night I drove six atgs from the HQ south of merzig and cut the incoming tanks and opels from the FB. They had no clue we we're there and lost six or seven pieces or armor. 

I like thinking outside the box.

 

 

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vasduten1

I'm interested to see how the next campaign goes with these tweaks applied.

 

Gotta try it out.

 

If it becomes apparent that it's really borked, I'm sure CRS will pull the plug and restart the campaign.

 

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delems

Be sure to fix the brit navy too - they have too many rifles.

Also, fix the french infantry flags - they have too many semis.

 

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delems

Ya kinda forgot to cut supply in half.

We couldn't attrit flags last map, and now you cut the RDP timers to 9 hours without changing supply in flags?

LMGs, SMGs and tanks forever :(

 

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potthead

I am not sure how reducing timer moves helps the losing side or newer HC.

it only speeds up the aspect of the game which is already WAY TOO FAST!!!!  Strategy Simulator vs Combat Simulator 

I can see it leading to super super fast breakout and disasters soon as moral goes low on one side.. 

My two cents anyways 

 

S!

 

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SCKING
50 minutes ago, potthead said:

I am not sure how reducing timer moves helps the losing side or newer HC.

it only speeds up the aspect of the game which is already WAY TOO FAST!!!!  Strategy Simulator vs Combat Simulator 

I can see it leading to super super fast breakout and disasters soon as moral goes low on one side.. 

My two cents anyways 

 

S!

 

only timers changed are non front line moves.. still the same timer to move front line to front line.. 

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sydspain

I don't understand this changes. When I started playing this game in 2014 we could fight for 2-3-4 hours and win a town because the enemy didn't have any supply left...since truck only frus and new FMS, do a continuous attack for 3-4 hours it's impossible, at least I didn't see a town capture by supply attrition in a very long time, and that means we have too much supply. And CRS instead of taking a messure like decrease supply or increase RDP damage they decided to do the oposite, shorten resupply timers from 15 hours to 10 so we can have now infinite supply. 

Now front lines can be overextended without consequences as we can see on the actual state of the map (allies have +30 towns in frontline),

Infinite supply + short front line timers = massive cutoffs...12 hours after campaign started there are 24 brigades cutted. I hope CRS revoke  this changes as fast as they did on campaign 136.

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petie

Supply should of been cut in half, NEVER think before changes are made do they.

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forrest

To counter these changes in resupply timers, it would be nice if we increased the time it takes a damaged factory to auto-repair itself.  To give a lingering effect on factory bombing...even though the actual effect with these now-shorter resupply timers is still pretty much nil.  

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petie

With the amount of supply and the timers reduced van at 100% ROD damage the effect it will be minimal.

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karellean
9 hours ago, potthead said:

I am not sure how reducing timer moves helps the losing side or newer HC.

it only speeds up the aspect of the game which is already WAY TOO FAST!!!!  Strategy Simulator vs Combat Simulator 

I can see it leading to super super fast breakout and disasters soon as moral goes low on one side.. 

My two cents anyways 

 

S!

 

Exactly as I called it above earlier... And you have here.....   Big part of the reason timers went off the 30/15 minutes to begin with.....   was that huge breakout from Huy to Malgadem, and a 2nd huge pocket no long after....  (that a few of us were involved with)   

Timers come back to this 30/15 this map for the first time in 7/8 years, and we see a huge pocket in place within 2 days, for the first time in years...

 

Fast timers hurt inexperienced HC and weaker sides.... not help them...  

Evidence is on the map right now....

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SCKING

As I said earlier, there has been no changes to frontline -> frontline movement timers.. They are still 60 minutes.. So the movement forward is no faster than before. The movement behind the lines is what is faster. Gives HC the ability to recover from a mistake made on the front line quicker. The breakouts by both sides on the first day of the map is because both CinC's took major risks by putting divisions in places that aren't "normal".. The Axis put a division in the zeelands and the Allies put two divisions in the southern pocket. If timers were shorter going forward in these pockets, the axis would have been in england and the allies would have been in Frankfurt and knocking on Koln.

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vasduten1

Yep, it's not a good move.

 

Once again, the whole ToEs and current HC structure is just killing gameplay.

 

Oh, sure... it's not killing gameplay for the side whose HC knows what they're doing, but then, that highlights why the current brigade system sucks so badly.  

 

It requires people to be on 24/7, work as volunteers for no benefit other than a pat on the back and to know WTH they're doing.

 

Maybe it's just me and my utter lack of faith in "people", but what I've found time and again is that when you let other people manage something for you, they FACK it up and don't care.

This is why I want ToEs out. My gameplay depends on a handful of relatively unskilled fellow players to do what needs to be done or face dire consequences. 

Seems the dire consequences are now more prevalent with the timer changes, and it's facking things up.

 

 

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stankyus
9 minutes ago, vasduten1 said:

Yep, it's not a good move.

 

Once again, the whole ToEs and current HC structure is just killing gameplay.

 

Oh, sure... it's not killing gameplay for the side whose HC knows what they're doing, but then, that highlights why the current brigade system sucks so badly.  

 

It requires people to be on 24/7, work as volunteers for no benefit other than a pat on the back and to know WTH they're doing.

 

Maybe it's just me and my utter lack of faith in "people", but what I've found time and again is that when you let other people manage something for you, they FACK it up and don't care.

This is why I want ToEs out. My gameplay depends on a handful of relatively unskilled fellow players to do what needs to be done or face dire consequences. 

Seems the dire consequences are now more prevalent with the timer changes, and it's facking things up.

 

 

Yesterday was crazy but I would hardly call the Axis crew and HC inept yesterday. It was some of the most intense fighting I have seen in ages especially near Longwy and Kalm.  It was a rush. TBH what both sides did yesterday was risky with a potential of a high pay off... but usually we call it very Stupid.  Snakes like we had on both sides yesterday where what we would consider .... "Ugg, this is not going to last long and we are going to pay for this big time.."  We just managed to get the N cut and the Axis numbers fell after their 2 hard attempt on Kalm after we stopped them in Montmedy and Longwy.

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SCKING
16 minutes ago, vasduten1 said:

This is why I want ToEs out. My gameplay depends on a handful of relatively unskilled fellow players to do what needs to be done or face dire consequences. 

Seems the dire consequences are now more prevalent with the timer changes, and it's facking things up.

 

I agree that flag removal should have been priority if not at steam release, right after steam release. Personally I don't think the timers have done anything to make this worst. Actually it should have helped but because HC did not want to give up their established line to save their back side, they got encircled. Would have taken 1.5 hours to pull an hq and brigade behind the lines and freed up the cutoff. 

 

Lack of HC is my concern and do think if flags are going to be staying, that garrison supply needs to be given every town. 

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david01
10 minutes ago, stankyus said:

Yesterday was crazy but I would hardly call the Axis crew and HC inept yesterday. It was some of the most intense fighting I have seen in ages especially near Longwy and Kalm.  It was a rush. TBH what both sides did yesterday was risky with a potential of a high pay off... but usually we call it very Stupid.  Snakes like we had on both sides yesterday where what we would consider .... "Ugg, this is not going to last long and we are going to pay for this big time.."  We just managed to get the N cut and the Axis numbers fell after their 2 hard attempt on Kalm after we stopped them in Montmedy and Longwy.

Okay so both HC were doing their jobs, and the game systems were functioning properly and the end result is that on the second day of a new campaign hardly anyone is playing.

 

I don't know why CRS thinks that it can sell a 24/7 premium subscription service when it only caters to one time zone and the two dozen people that enjoy playing with flags. I mean there was only one axis HC online awhile ago and it was a rat (waver25), and now there's no axis hc online.

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Hardlead

I have been silet up until now on this subject.

But....the last 24h of map changes make it so clear that all argument to the contrary mimic Bagdad Bobs;

The ToEs and current HCs function must go. It is now more than well proven that it doesnt work for delivering an interesting gaming experience.

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