rabitldr

Retaining HC and fixing side balance, Tip System

37 posts in this topic

Retaining HC and addressing side issues is tricky but I think I have an idea that will fix both.

We turn each HC position into a Patreon. Inside game if a player see's a HC officer doing a good job they could type in /tip <player name> <amount>. SYSTEM asks are you sure and asks you to repeat the command to avoid a mistake. It asks one more time with a Y/N response. The money is put in a Paypal account. A system could be placed on the HC officers personal page.

If STEAM works well enough the RATS could put aside 2,000 a  month and after looking at game stats and the tip system, (possibly needing a new monitor program dedicated to HC officers, hopefully the new hardware would support this) could distribute 1,000 to each side. The first money earned could be placed against the players subscription fee until their fee is paid. This of course would be the players choice.

The result of all this?

HC positions become valuable enough you could double the available positions and chances are they would still all be full. You could even offer a training command position for would be officers. Few players would want to leave HC but we know natural attrition does mean some leave. Positions would become available but good officers which got tips would stay

Squads tend to produce HC Officers. Squads tend to follow  tend to follow their HC officers. This would mean players would stay put. HC offciers could have leaves of absents for a map to go over the other side but in doing so would lose their tip ability. RATS could place say a 20% limit of HC officers doing so though so as to retain manpower. Of that no more than 20% of a TZ listed HC. We can't have all of one time zone jumping ship.

All this would most likely mean a near full HC roster and more active HC officers in game. You have to be there to be tipped. Bringing back HC uniforms and command signals (advance, halt etc...) would help. |

There was a short termed use of HC uniforms. Further to that  we had pistol only HC. If a HC officer could could choose from their own emergency supply pool. to explain...

Say a supply pool was made of 5 units. These units could be anything. Pistols down to ATG rifles. If you choose a Sten then there are 4 of anything left. Grab a ATG Rifle, now there are 3 and so on. This system would be available to training command HC as well so while they may not be tipped they would get something out of it. Possibly a training command tip could be added to the monthly fund the RATS gave out.

Am I in HC? 

Yes

Is this built on self interest?

Yes

Mostly from sitting there way tom late at night desperately hoping a HC officer would come one so I could sleep. We need to do something outside the box

Edited by rabitldr

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At this point in time i actually think CRS will have to pay someone to be HC during the Steam release.

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As a HC officer I can tell you we are both looking forward to and dreading it. I suspect we will be hip deep in Tweens. Educating them in which end of the gun is the naughty end may take some time

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I do not favor a sort of monetary reward/tip system

...for actual money.

 

Aside from the various tax implications, and the extra cost in administrative effort, it's just... a little greasy. What, if any limit is there to the amount a player can be tipped?

 

Too many twists and turns.

 

Having said that, I do support a tip system that pays toward the HC officer's subscription. SOME sort of incentive to be HC.

Of course, we'd HAVE to have uniforms back...

so players can recognize their HC officers in the field. 

 

;)

 

Edited by vasduten1
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Absolutely there would be a limit. Five dollars tops with a limit of how many tips you could make. As these by necessity would be linked to credit cards and we might have young kids playing you don't want them giving away a house payment  

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If it's set up using the Patreon system that's used on the internet, (cosplayers use it all the time) that may simplify tax issues I'd have thought. You Tube takes donations too. It's a question of finding the right system that's already out there and working out the way to marry it to the game

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 There's a quote from "generation kill" that I'm thinking of that has to do with the business end Of " general .........."

............

I like to think if Hi command as a bunch of dedicated selfless individual's Who Have found a way  to play the game That they enjoy, and that that,in and of itself, is reward enough.

 What you're suggesting however well intended strikes me as a profound cheapening of that Ideal that makes me as a dedicated Allied player want to do what I can to help them, even the 30 day wonders.

Edited by brady

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It's well established that tip income, and "gift" income in return for services, is income taxable to the recipient. A passthrough handler of such funds can have tax obligations as well, including reporting how much was paid to who, and sometimes withholding. Consider how (legally compliant) restaurants handle tip funds that customers charge to their credit card as a part of the meal tab.

It's possible that IRS might decide that, since CRS would receive a benefit from the service provided by HC, HC were (legally) employees of CRS. That'd have all sorts of consequences and effects, none of them good for CRS.

But if there was a desire to do it, here's a system already set up. Of course, they take a cut. https://www.patreon.com/

Edited by jwilly

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Had a hunt. Looks like it's subject to your country of origins tax laws. Fairly straight forward. If it's a creator issue a HC officer helps to create the game. As long as the Tip System shows how much you got in any one year it should work as long as it's recognised/set up as one. I suspect it still comes down to the game end figuring out how to program in a Tip Interface so you can tip from inside game. Outside the game all it would take is setting up a Paetron account attached to the HC Officers profile and having a button 

https://www.patreon.com/taxesI

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There was some talk of the officer uniforms coming back this year or next year

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10 hours ago, rabitldr said:

Had a hunt. Looks like it's subject to your country of origins tax laws. Fairly straight forward. If it's a creator issue a HC officer helps to create the game. As long as the Tip System shows how much you got in any one year it should work as long as it's recognised/set up as one. I suspect it still comes down to the game end figuring out how to program in a Tip Interface so you can tip from inside game. Outside the game all it would take is setting up a Paetron account attached to the HC Officers profile and having a button 

https://www.patreon.com/taxesI

Well, either way, having it linked to cash value is just too complicated without another third party vendor involved.

 

I mean, JUST to set a tip system up through paypal or patreon, CRS would have to hire the accountant to set it all up, and that's not cheap. 

 

Also, what happens if someone in HC is doing unrelated and funky stuff with taxes and gets audited?

Then CRS has to answer to the IRS as well and the way things work regarding tax investigations, when they find someone messing around, or suspect it enough to audit, (or even if it's RANDOM,) they start going up the chain. Those who tipped, how much, etc.

No thanks.

 

Maybe tax code is easier where you are, but here, any IRS involvement aside from filing and paying is some thing you want to avoid at all costs. Those are what I mean by "implications". 

 

It'd be much simpler if players tipped toward game credit on their behalf and it was just applied/monitored by CRS staff. 

No cash value, limit to the next month's subscription bill date, and keep the whole concept of actual cash value out of it.

Call them tokens... or whatever. 

Maybe people could buy tokens to give out when they pay their subs. I don't know.

 

I've been toying with the idea of micro transactions for things like skins, tanker packages, pilot packages and infantry  for a bit now, and I think people would be glad to pay a slightly higher adjusted rate for those items if they had a venue to do so.

 

The thing is, there is NO venue for this in WWIIOL and it would require resources and manpower to get it online and maintain.

 

I think it's a viable source of extra income, but CRS, (I think,) is limited due to their partnership to Playnet, inc. 

I believe Playnet handles all of the player accounts and funds and CRS just stewards the game and it's development and maintenance.

 

Also... if I recall correctly, the people who run Playnet, inc. might be behind the times but there are ownership shares, etc to navigate.

It's not as simple as just "adding microtransactions" or "adding a layer of tipping for HC".

Here is some info on Playnet, inc.: https://www.bloomberg.com/profiles/companies/0438034D:US-playnet-inc

 

 

 

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Simpler way would be just to have a rating system for HC and maybe Squads.

You can vote for your FAV HC dude or dudette and Squad. Only once per 24 hours.

This would boost the morale of HC and Squads. Which in turn help the squad system....

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+10. Money talks. This is a good idea. Could also be broader by having a 'Tips' system not only for HC but for Squads and individual players who are good at what they do in game or who help out other players - which other players  may want to  tip and be able to afford however small ($1-$5) the tip may be. 

Cosplay at its finest. 

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With all the cheap b@stards playing this game, we'll have too many HC if this happens....LOL

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13 hours ago, oxford09 said:

There was some talk of the officer uniforms coming back this year or next year

We actually paid for this like 2 or 3 fundraising ago. Didn't happen.

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The way I read it the Paetron system (which has only been around for a few years anyway) covers the legal issue. It's just money the individual Paetron has to declare to their relevant government, (the link I had was for US law, there's an extra form there) and if the script was set up as soon as a player was made a HC then a Paetron button would be attached to their personality page. The player would just link a paypal account to it, or a bank account. 

Again the trick is the in game end of tiping in game, having a program set up to allow it from inside the game (with limits and so on discussed here).  

As to too many HC? There are not enough in right now. There are some new ones. Not enough. In a couple of months the player base will increase dramatically and we will not have enough to do the job. Incentifying the HC system gets those officers in and doing their jobs. Getting the uniforms back gives them public identity, feel of the game, helps keep squads and players on one side or the other. As I said, squads tend to produce HC, squads stay with their HC . So what if the whole HC ORBAT was full. How would that be a terrible thing?

Remember its a 24 hour game. Not every officer can be in. We all have to sleep

Being in HC would not make a surety of getting money. You'd have to do a good job, lead, encorage, you know, be worthy of being a HC. 

This is not like other games. One way or the other it's been built on players running the game. The systems that are here now to allow (legally) this idea to work are now here.   

I put this idea out to take it's rough edges off and good ideas toward that have come out. The legal issues, (I think) might be more imagined than real. Is it some work? Yes, but the pay off to the game is too much to ignore or throw away out of hand. There's nothing inherently wrong with the idea, (I think anyway, seems everyone is at least broadly in favour as long as legal issues can be settled) it's just a question of the fine details, making sure we dot our t's and cross out eyes.

RATS, where do you stand on this?

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hmm, just get rid of HC.

Town supply and dynamic AOs; you get 20 units within 2km of a town and the town goes AOd 10 min later automatically.

If 20 is too high, go with 10.

If system detects no AO for 15 min, it automatically places one.

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16 hours ago, delems said:

hmm, just get rid of HC.

Town supply and dynamic AOs; you get 20 units within 2km of a town and the town goes AOd 10 min later automatically.

If 20 is too high, go with 10.

If system detects no AO for 15 min, it automatically places one.

Did OJ hack your account?

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6 hours ago, Capco said:

Did OJ hack your account?

Now that's funny! OJ was one heckuva ground commander back in the day, a lot of fun to play with. I hope he comes back.

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Tipping, 

I don't know about this. There are way to many questions that would need to be answered . Lawyers get involved .  Laws are different from country to country. 

 Then I am an officer and now i start spamming  Dot Allied/Axis  give me a tip or i will not resupply the town you are in.   You want a AO ...give me a tip.   I can see the spam now.  

 

I will point this thread to the powers that be.

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I don't believe this really would work as intended. in theory, it is a good idea and could have positive effects, but it also could have negative effects such that you have people who are there just for the tipping system and not working for the PB. You could also have more guys in HC who aren't really doing much other than playing the game and because of that, the PB might tip them more than those who are doing the nitty gritty work of moving the map of keeping supply good for the sole reason of seeing them on the field more. It also causes it to not be volunteer work and at that point, they are getting money for helping the game so in theory, they'd be employees of CRS so they would have to pay minimum wage and all that fun stuff. it sounds like a great idea but I don't think it is the way to go to generate more HC.

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Problem is that there is a bigger audience during prime than on late-night, and much of the time late night coverage is needed. Also there are plenty of important HC jobs like rotating flags and blowing FBs that don't get much attention. The stuff that does get attention like sweeping cuts and breakthroughs is also very risky. Money introduces all sorts of moral hazards.

 

Comping HC subscription time is a good idea but at this point I think the rats either aren't willing to try it, or they did and it wasn't enough. Again there will be an issue of one HC getting his time comped while another HC not, or maybe two HC both get comp time but one makes more moves than the other. And say two HC work about as equally hard and are both respected, but one makes reliable map moves and so has his work thoroughly quantified while the other "is attack OIC", and his stats actually suggest bad performance?

 

It's important to note though that despite all the complications with paying HC, a Patreon for officers could be set up completely separate of CRS or any ingame system and be a community effort. So unless that sort of thing is against the TOS and CRS wants to enforce the TOS then it doesn't matter if CRS supports it or not.

 

Bringing back HC uniforms is a good idea just because it adds some character to the sides and even leads to a bit of meta (HC spotted in an area used to get people wondering). HC is a critical game system and the devs don't even support it with a cosmetic incentive.

 

The problem with giving HC a supply pool is that it encourages them fighting. When they're not staring at the map proper HC should be driving trucks. It might be appropriate in the game's current state though as there are very few minor leaders anymore and HC does everything from clearing depots to strategic map movement. So a personal stack of SMGs for depot work or a stack of engies to blow FBs might be useful.

 

Oh yeah and Delems is right. Some fairly basic server scripts could manage AOs. In fact the only reason to keep human-placed AOs is if there is a constant need to set AOs where players either can't or refuse to spawn. It's much better to have the playerbase operate off of concrete game rules than human preferences which can vary widely.

Edited by david01

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