sorella

The Destruction of Army Group North

74 posts in this topic

Campaign 139 has been a roller-coaster from its start about 30 hours ago on Sunday.   Fluid, exciting, weirdest opening to a campaign ever. Or at least since Badger, Fenir, Karellean and some of the old time map movers on both sides.  Kudos to both HCs for trying something different and the playerbase's responses thereto, especially with the changes introduced this campaign. So far, looks like the Allies have countered well pocketing the Axis in the North and moving East. 

(server currently down for maintenance Monday 5 cst) 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That is too funny....

On the other hand i really want to cry..I cant believe what is happening with this game the last few months.:huh:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It might have been fun for some guys, but not for everyone:

Campaign Day 1 was Sunday - it was Father's day in the USA.  Lots of guys like me already had other commitments on Sunday.

So I finally get a chance to log in on Day 1 at Midnight.  I log in and see 2/3rd of the Axis army is cutoff.  Leige is already Allied.  And there is nothing to stop the Allies from taking the German factories except the 1 AO no softcap rule.

This all happened on day 1 before I fired a single shot!  

WTF - how is that a good day for this game ?  The campaign looks like it will be over by day 3 at this rate.  Lol

 

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your never going to retain new players if you keep staying in tier 0 and tier 1.

Kudos for trying something new and who knows how the maps going to end. But the above is true regardless. New players will want to play American or at least experience all of the systems, which are few enough to begin with.

I know a lot of the old guys and builders Love tier 0 and 1. I guess you'll have to decide what kind of game you want. I dont even think the new tank busters came out until '43, at least the Hurri and Stuka.

 

Edited by usaf77
2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I never saw the interest in ending the map in 2 days. 

What for? To say WE WON!!   ha, won what? Did you win a free subscription? What? 

All they do is reset the map and we do it all over again, and without seeing tier 3 AGAIN.  

Rats need to speed up the tiers, been saying this forever because a ton of us are sick of plodding through tier0 and 1 just to get a tiny bit of tier2 and nothing of 3. 

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well this is not a normal campaign start ... both sides set up differently.     blink and you missed it

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, OHM said:

Well this is not a normal campaign start ... both sides set up differently.     blink and you missed it

That's actually a fair point.  The deployments themselves being so abnormal for both sides doesn't give us a chance to properly gauge all the ruleset changes.

 

However I think it's fair to say that the flag movement timer change was unnecessary (and something several of us recommended against).  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The flag timer is what killed the map.

Both sides would have slowed their snake, and allies never would have made it around with 60 min timers on frontline.

The 30 min timer is what really mattered in this map - not pop or deployment.

Move timers need to revert back to slower.

And we absolutely must get to town supply asap, no question about it now imo.

If ya want to have a TOE game, fine, give squads their own little platoon of supply to move around.  You'll never have a HC issue for flags that way.

 

Edited by delems

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think flag timers would have been fine if they were done correctly. Obviously whomever changed the timers, changed the front-front timer and shouldn't have. The behind the line timers would benefit the side that needs to retreat and fix their lines if a mistake happens.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The timers did help, but who is to say the snake would have been as big. This map for my end of the deployment was changing it up a bit. Allies got tired of seeing the straight softcap to the south to cut Etain and push Montfacon. Axis tried an ambitious Zeeland approach, which came down to 2 battles Kathmout and Longwyn. Each of those battles could have swayed the current situation. 

Axis are now pushing back to Lux to relink a full division then who knows where it may go. This deployment for me would have happened even without the change in timers. By the way I didnt read front line to front line timers being 1 hour. I read it as it is. Basically all timers were cut in half. Both sides have same timers, and it worked to both advantages.

As far as tier 0, 1 equipment etc - This map is not over, and I play with everything, the battles the last 36 hours have been intense and more meaningful as the cuts are still there, a battle lost or won changes movements 10 fold.

The rats in my view are testing new mechanics for steam (since 1.36 ) is delayed, to make sure they have the right mix until they can go with town based supply. Its an experiment, I am sure they would have liked a more standard deployment but I for one am not a standard type of CinC.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1. This is live testing changes

2. The last few Campaigns missed tiers partially or completely 

3. The campaign is shorter and shorter 

4. The timers don't give a chance to recover 

Having said that, I used to have 2 accounts till yesterday, a starter and a premium... Premium is gone now, I don't get the product... And I was planning to be a builder... Man that would have been a mistake... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

THIS:

sydspain    0

  • sydspain
  • Free Play Account
  • 133 posts

 

Posted 39 minutes ago (edited) ·

Back on campaign 136 when CRS made the mistake of reduce cap timers to 30 sec, Axis were overpop, adapted well to those changes and did well in Antwerp and Brussels. IIRC about 24 towns were capped in 24 hours...people were scandalized, didn't matter axis or allied, people were against those changes. Some people said that losing Antwerp and Brussels the first day was a joke, some others said that losing that amount of towns the first day of campaign wasn't the right pace for this game, I even remember people who wanted to do a boicot...and then the campaign was reset with good judgment.

Now 2 months later the story repeats itself. CRS made some bad changes that makes the massive cutoffs issue even worst, Allies were overpop, adapted well to thise changes and did a very good job cutting from Luxemburg to Liege, due this cutoff +90 towns were captured in the first 24 hours, and 2 factory towns were captured in the first 36 hours of campaign. Now instead of having people united against this changes that make this game unplayable...we have allied trying to justify that a campaign can be won in 12 hours because it's a HC fault or a risky gamble that went wrong. But no, no matter how bad HC mistakes are, +90 towns and 28 of 36 brigades can't be cutted in just 12 hours, same way it wasn't justifiable that Antwerp were captured in 24 minutes 3 campaigns ago.

I'm really disappointed with all those people who had a clear judgment about game pace on campaign 136 and change it on campaign 139 because his side it's winning or losing.

Edit: And the same goes for those axis players who justified that Antwerp and Brussels were captured in 25 minutes and now wanted a campaign reset

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I myself think the timers being sped up added a needed bit of freshness and added more maneuver warfare to the map, but that's just me. I'd also think that this hilariously fast drive to Germany is a pretty one-off thing; there were new mechanics and both sides decided to do something wonky for fun - as both High Commands get their crash course on the new timers, they'll adapt to it and will not make the same moves next time.

 

As for those complaining about not seeing Tier 2 and 3, I suppose I can understand. Speeding up tier timers in tandem with these timer changes wouldn't be too preposterous. Though I do admit, I'm not at all a fan of the mass amounts of Semi-Autos and Automatics that pour in late-game.

 

Edit: I agree with what delems said as well; as the map movement is made more fluid, the need to re-implement town-based supply is becoming increasingly evident. The system would encourage more Squad-level cooperation on the Strategic map as a whole - would probably really help prevent massive steamrolls.

Edited by damonkey
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, blkhwk8 said:

By the way I didnt read front line to front line timers being 1 hour. I read it as it is. Basically all timers were cut in half. Both sides have same timers, and it worked to both advantages.

 

As per @XOOM's post:

  1. Brigade movement timers
    1. Frontline - rear line
      1. Currently: 60 minutes
      2. Change to: 30 minutes
    2. Rear-rear line
      1. Currently: 30 minutes
      2. Change to: 15 minutes

 

Justifications include:

    5. Brigade movement timers: Anything on the front-front doesn't change, but we want officers to be able to cover any strategic blunders more rapidly. If the enemy has exposed your lines and you are in a retreat you should be able to cover that faster than what we currently offer.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is this map a product of the different deployments or the timer change?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, blkhwk8 said:

Is this map a product of the different deployments or the timer change?

 

I would say both but mainly deployments.  Axis tried something different. It didnt work and we paid for it.  It is what it is, you just plod thru it and do the best you can.

Edited by bmw
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, blkhwk8 said:

Is this map a product of the different deployments or the timer change?

 

Both.

The Allied Deployment hadn't been used since 102, so it's been a while. 

With the Axis focusing on the north, it left the S end weaker.   

If the Axis had gone with a 'normal' start, there would have been an extra division(s) on the S side of the map.  The usual Sedan -> SW cut could have been done and the extra allied units on the S Trapped (nearly happened in 102 but between buckeyes and dfadd all the flags were pulled out successfully).  

The Allied plan also needed a 2nd AO, at critical times to be successful.  

The timer changes played into it as it allowed for a faster push. 

 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, bmw said:

I would say both but mainly deployments.  Axis tried something different. It didnt work and we paid for it.  It is what it is, you just plod thru it and do the best you can.

agreed.. 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I resubbed last week. I'm considering unsubbing again.

3 day campaign? That's great fun. Well done.

The soft capping - well done. Either HC doing it. Good for you. Ignore those flags that the other side has cut off where you could actually fight.

Its clear to anybody with a brain that the other side has no HC on because nothing moves - keep pushing on - good for you.

CRS - Your tools to deal with pop imbalance do not work.

CRS - Deal with bugs and things that will get the current game right. We'd all love to see P51, B17, Sherman Firefly, Panther, Tiger B etc etc but get the basics dealt with first please.

10 hours ago, krazydog said:

It might have been fun for some guys, but not for everyone:

Campaign Day 1 was Sunday - it was Father's day in the USA.  Lots of guys like me already had other commitments on Sunday.

So I finally get a chance to log in on Day 1 at Midnight.  I log in and see 2/3rd of the Axis army is cutoff.  Leige is already Allied.  And there is nothing to stop the Allies from taking the German factories except the 1 AO no softcap rule.

This all happened on day 1 before I fired a single shot!  

WTF - how is that a good day for this game ?  The campaign looks like it will be over by day 3 at this rate.  Lol

 

 

10 hours ago, usaf77 said:

Your never going to retain new players if you keep staying in tier 0 and tier 1.

Kudos for trying something new and who knows how the maps going to end. But the above is true regardless. New players will want to play American or at least experience all of the systems, which are few enough to begin with.

I know a lot of the old guys and builders Love tier 0 and 1. I guess you'll have to decide what kind of game you want. I dont even think the new tank busters came out until '43, at least the Hurri and Stuka.

 

 

9 hours ago, Mosizlak said:

I never saw the interest in ending the map in 2 days. 

What for? To say WE WON!!   ha, won what? Did you win a free subscription? What? 

All they do is reset the map and we do it all over again, and without seeing tier 3 AGAIN.  

Rats need to speed up the tiers, been saying this forever because a ton of us are sick of plodding through tier0 and 1 just to get a tiny bit of tier2 and nothing of 3. 

 

9 hours ago, delems said:

The flag timer is what killed the map.

Both sides would have slowed their snake, and allies never would have made it around with 60 min timers on frontline.

The 30 min timer is what really mattered in this map - not pop or deployment.

Move timers need to revert back to slower.

And we absolutely must get to town supply asap, no question about it now imo.

If ya want to have a TOE game, fine, give squads their own little platoon of supply to move around.  You'll never have a HC issue for flags that way.

 

 

5 hours ago, braum said:

1. This is live testing changes

2. The last few Campaigns missed tiers partially or completely 

3. The campaign is shorter and shorter 

4. The timers don't give a chance to recover 

Having said that, I used to have 2 accounts till yesterday, a starter and a premium... Premium is gone now, I don't get the product... And I was planning to be a builder... Man that would have been a mistake... 

That's the customers speaking there.....................

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, rotsechs said:

I resubbed last week. I'm considering unsubbing again.

3 day campaign? That's great fun. Well done.

The soft capping - well done. Either HC doing it. Good for you. Ignore those flags that the other side has cut off where you could actually fight.

Its clear to anybody with a brain that the other side has no HC on because nothing moves - keep pushing on - good for you.

CRS - Your tools to deal with pop imbalance do not work.

CRS - Deal with bugs and things that will get the current game right. We'd all love to see P51, B17, Sherman Firefly, Panther, Tiger B etc etc but get the basics dealt with first please.

 

 

 

 

That's the customers speaking there.....................

Rots, I'm also disappointed in this map, and in the live test.

 

Last campaign was really very fun, even in the end when the Axis were pushed all the way east. 

 

The decreased timers showed just how much they can affect the map in 16 hrs of the campaign. Once GHC logged off, and nobody was on, The Allies big plan, (deployment,) became a non-issue; the flags were stacked, and if there was no way to get to where they wanted, they could simply wait a half hour and move on.

Sure, the GHC deployments tossed a can of fuel on this fire, as poor choices of deployment often do, but really... NO HC IS ON WHEN IT MATTERS AND THE MAP IS LOST.

 

 

I'll REPEAT: When the game's outcomes and supply availability is dependent on a dozen or so players to be on 24/7, and when they're not on disasters happen, (like I need to illustrate this any further, as EVERY map makes this painfully clear,) the game suffers and people leave.

They just go elsewhere. Even if they don't unsub, they are off playing H1Z!: KOTK.

 

Like all of DDz was the past couple of nights.

I managed to get in game here for a little bit Sunday, but after the cut, nobody wanted to play. I went to join them in KOTK and we had big fun instead.

 

Yesterday, DNS issues kept me and many other away. 

 

 

I have no problem trying new timer settings out, but the idea that "AHC had a master stroke of genius in deployments" and this alone is what made this map go so quickly is absolutely ridiculous.

 

Wow, so 2% of the game's paying population had fun moving flags around. WHOOPETY DOO!

 

The rest of us suffer.

 

 

ToEs need to come out. It's been killing the game since inception, and there is NO justification to keep it. There hasn't been justification, ever.

Even at it's height, having the game's population rely solely on flag movements with plenty of HC officers on has been nothing but a giant hassle.

 

Those who sit here and defend the system as is, or their involvement in HC need to get out side their bubble and see what the rest of us see:

 

We've got this combined arms MMOFPS that promises all sorts of fun and action, but in metaphorical terms, there's the physical embodiment of the board game Risk face sitting on the player base like a 400 lb dominatrix with a peaked vinyl officer's cap smothering the life out of it.

 

ToEs is a succubus, and HC flag moving games need to go. It's BS.

 

Obvious over the past few years, and when the timers get cut, this is like going from waterboarding to just being submerged.

 

 

I'm still paying a sub, and I'm waiting for the HE audit to be implemented. 

They need to fix the basics of the game before they wiggle knobs and pull levers.

 

 

I think a map reset is on order.

 

I really don't care that HC had fun playing around with map deployment: the majority of us do no enjoy this,

 

 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, vasduten1 said:

I think a map reset is on order.

 

I really don't care that HC had fun playing around with map deployment: the majority of us do no enjoy this,

 

 

I am sure the map will be reset quickly. CRS should reset the map today and start in tier2 IMO.. Fix the front-front timer and prioritize removing brigades in their coding schedule. Get brigades out of the game, go to town supply, then put in the schedule to build a hybrid garrison/brigade system in the future. 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.