Mosizlak

How come the allies don't use the 17lber?

61 posts in this topic

That's the question. Why ? 

It's the best ATG in the game. It can take out anything the Axis have, even the tiger frontally, from long range. 

 

I was shocked to see only 80-something kills this entire map from the 17lber...That's a freakin travesty. 

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because it flips faster than the Italians during WWII when being towed.... 

 

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18 minutes ago, B2K said:

because it flips faster than the Italians during WWII when being towed.... 

 

I've never flipped one, ever. 

 

M5, almost every time lol, but never a 17lber, even at full speed. 

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18 minutes ago, Mosizlak said:

That's the question. Why ? 

It is a good gun.
It does have some issues with towing like B2K mentioned.
It for some reason isnt very stable when rolling, even not towing or rolling i've had it tip over when firing it.
When towed, a lot of times i wind up arriving upside down

I mean it isnt anything as crazy as the old flak gun model where it literally walked across the ground, but it is kind of weird.
I am thinking it perhaps does not counter balance the gun tube right or something?

Dont get me wrong, it is not unuseable, its just kind of clumsy, i think people lose patience.
And god forbid you bump anything with the gun tube lol.

You thought getting the 88 in place was adventurous :D


 

 

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7 minutes ago, merlin51 said:

It is a good gun.
It does have some issues with towing like B2K mentioned.
It for some reason isnt very stable when rolling, even not towing or rolling i've had it tip over when firing it.
When towed, a lot of times i wind up arriving upside down

I mean it isnt anything as crazy as the old flak gun model where it literally walked across the ground, but it is kind of weird.
I am thinking it perhaps does not counter balance the gun tube right or something?

Dont get me wrong, it is not unuseable, its just kind of clumsy, i think people lose patience.
And god forbid you bump anything with the gun tube lol.

You thought getting the 88 in place was adventurous :D


 

 

I've never had an issue towing it. 

It is a chore moving around once you get into position, but nothing that makes it not worth using. 

I see people blasting away at stugGs with 6lbers at range and getting wiped out. Use a 17lber and cut it up like butter.  

Especially now that the morris can set a MSP there's no reason not to use it.  

 

USE IT! That's the thing I'm trying to say :P

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its like the 88 itself, very distinctive audio

2 minutes later, PING! no.2 dead

anyways most Allies will use the M10 for destructive power.

some Allied 'name withheld' just shot up my 88 at 2600m, with an M10...

should not be possible but even the Stu again 'name withheld' can kill an 88 at 2300 plus.

so in other words towing or using a long range special weapon is pretty much useless since the Tanks can easily see and kill you.

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1 hour ago, Mosizlak said:

I've never had an issue towing it. 

Please come tow mine.
No seriously please come town mine, you know how much it sucks to be drug around for 7 minutes only to wind up being dropped off upside down?
Seems to be worse when they jump berms and stuff.

 

1 hour ago, Mosizlak said:

Especially now that the morris can set a MSP there's no reason not to use it.

Cant spawn it out of the MS, if that's what you mean? only 2pdr, the little MLE and the 25mm aa gun.
Or did you just mean more towing availability?

I might try towing myself and see how it goes.

17 minutes ago, bus0 said:

some Allied 'name withheld' just shot up my 88 at 2600m, with an M10...

Was not me, i swear
I only shooted the opel

 

and the PZIII

and just maybe the PZIV

and maybe the STUG just a little 
only a little  :D

 

19 minutes ago, bus0 said:

some Allied 'name withheld' just shot up my 88 at 2600m, with an M10...

should not be possible but even the Stu again 'name withheld' can kill an 88 at 2300 plus.

That pretty much holds for anything non infantry
If you can see it, and can get your round to reach it, you can touch it.
If its unarmored and you can drop an HE on it, it will get hurt.

M10 has a range finder, so it makes that part easier.
Still not super easy cause at 2600m the 88 looks like such a little bunch of sticks, but yes, it is possible.
Could be M10, STU, B1, STUG or PZIII, long as you can manage to get the round there and figure out how far away it is.
 

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Not all its cracked up to be... 1 it flips. I have about a 50-50 ratio on flips. Very few 17pdrs avail on the map. When you have them the often die to ei. What can I say.. great gun no doubt. Sitting ducks hell yes. Get them into position with good coverage, they rule. Too far in between Im afraid. 

 

Edit oh and there is the invisible stugG. Several times tonight stugGs took 17pdr hits and wiped them all out ...  1.5k it should have been dead.

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13 hours ago, Mosizlak said:

I've never flipped one, ever. 

 

M5, almost every time lol, but never a 17lber, even at full speed. 

Same. And I use it alot when play allied.

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it's slow, even slower than bofors. most of the PB don't play for effectiveness (or have the patience): they'd rather loose 2 6lbr's and 4RPATS in 10min on a single tiger, instead killing 2 tigers in 30min.

most give up after the anti tank inf and the nearest depot's 6lbr's are gone. same can be said on the axis side too.

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m1 can actually be moved around without tow account so m1>17pounder.

17pounders are nice at the start of a massive squad attack (which we dont have anymore since 2014 or so) for towns with hills and an action radius of 2 km like bouillon. Or when you need to deal with a tiger specifically. For all other cases just use the m1/6pounder.

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Using the 17 lbs a lot when I play allied.

But,

There is no need for the 17 lbs when the 6 lbs in game do the same job out to 4-500 meters.

The 6 lbs can flame a tiger frontally out to 3-400 meters, and kill it frontally on longer ranges.

Not to mention what the 6 lbs does to lesser Axis Pz......

Why push a freaking barn door, screaming, come and shoot me?

I understand why its not used a lot......

 

 

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22 minutes ago, major0noob said:

it's slow, even slower than bofors.

Not slower than the 88
Ever pushed one of those in from the FB?

Start early, like before the AO.
Start pushing and switch to POS2

Go to kitchen, marinate and cook to rare 1 22ounce porterhouse steak
Lightly saute in butter and shaved garlic, 10 ounces of mushrooms
Wash slice and fry 2 medium potatoes into steak fries
 

Serve on heated plate as desired.

Take plate to PC to check on progress
switch to POS1 to make any minor corrections to course.
switch back to POS2
Continue to eat food.

Take dishes to sink and was and dry them and put them away
Wash the cooking dishes and dry them and also put them away.
Clean stove and countertops.

Get out ice cream malt powder coco and milk
Get out blender and tall glass.
Proceed to make a pitcher of milk shakes.
Take pitcher and glass back to PC.

Repeat course correction sequence if necessary.

Turn on netflix and enjoy milk shake
Check course between moves, correct if necessary.... 

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48 minutes ago, Hardlead said:

Why push a freaking barn door, screaming, come and shoot me?

i only see the size complaint in the fourms... honestly when i shot AT a 17lbr its size isn't what gave it away but the gun itself shooting. if i catch it off guard its always due to it's speed.

fighting it, the shield does help: as inf i could never snipe it after getting within 500m like the AAA/88. the german long guns are accurate enough that they don't rely on spall, most of my hits were on the gunner directly behind the shield.

 

34 minutes ago, merlin51 said:

Not slower than the 88
Ever pushed one of those in from the FB?

blah blah blah

yup, the 17lbr as well. both with spectacular results.

the 17lbr is far less vulnerable to getting sniped. not talking about extreme 2k snipers or >300m engagements but the 500-800m range FRU hunters/flankers/scouts like to sit in.

Edited by major0noob
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This campaign has not seen many allied players, and even less offense, since the 17 has been available.  It is a great gun though.  Make it so we get a new tier every 5-7 days, you'll see many more kills with it.

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Was a great gun might still might be a great gun but it seems like axis armor has been harden...nothing dies in the sweet spot like it use to...1-3 shots now days...plus late in the map it's either rolling or getting rolled..so not worth it because towns fall fast or you get an ei up your wazoo faster than wiping with toilet paper.

Edited by gridiron

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why use the 17pdr when the 6pdr and M1 atg do the same plus you can spawn them from depots ?

both can kill Tiger frontally at 1500m too

M1 + 6pdr have about the same performance like the PaK40 in this game

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My issue with pushing a gun around is that by the time you come to fire it at something, the area is already full of EI. Would be nice if the gun crew got some kind of pistol sidearm or even just a pointed stick

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47 minutes ago, calyx6 said:

even just a pointed stick

the stick we got. Problem is pushing it to the EI fast enough.
Its kind of amusing and strangely satisfying, those times when you can actually crush the EI with your gun.

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23 hours ago, bus0 said:

its like the 88 itself, very distinctive audio

2 minutes later, PING! no.2 dead

anyways most Allies will use the M10 for destructive power.

some Allied 'name withheld' just shot up my 88 at 2600m, with an M10...

should not be possible but even the Stu again 'name withheld' can kill an 88 at 2300 plus.

so in other words towing or using a long range special weapon is pretty much useless since the Tanks can easily see and kill you.

So.. for the same reasons people don't use the 88.

 

Maybe the 88 has more kills per campaign, but they're trifling to mess around with and easy targets for a rifleman. Forget about the EA!

 

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8 minutes ago, scotsman said:

Had to do the 17pdr to get firefly... 

And the Firefly to get the Hellcat, and then that big boatride home...

 

(yea i know they have nothing in common)

Edited by merlin51
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16 hours ago, vasduten1 said:

So.. for the same reasons people don't use the 88.

 

Maybe the 88 has more kills per campaign, but they're trifling to mess around with and easy targets for a rifleman. Forget about the EA!

 

All the slow ATGs are targeted by air and called out. The hardest of the slow atgs to find is the pak40. They are relatively smaller than the rest. I killed one recently in simply because he fired.. I dropped a bomb in the area but I had called it out as a pak38.., didn't know it was a pak40 until AAR.   The 88 has as distinct advantage in the sense you can get behind a berm and see over it. It is like the 2pdr and you can engage ei in a 360.. which after the HE audit its going to be even more of a killer.  

One reason why I want the Achilles asap is that I love the M10 and fare much better in it than I do the S76 or CH7 if I dare to spawn one.  It has all the aspects I like until the firefly. 1. It fills the BEF long range AFV that can actually challenge the StugG and Tiger. Its pretty fast compared to the CH3 and CH7. It will have better optics at 3x instead of 1.9x like the majority of BEF tanks. It gives the Brits a TD which has been missing for ever. Gives more reason to have more BEF units available on the map.  Fix the CH7s and CH3s armor leak and the BEF will have something worth attacking with. ATM its the ugly stepchild of the game... though the RATs have done a few things to make the infantry game better, it lacks just about everything in the tanking game after T0 worthy of attacking with.  Defense it does ok. But in T1 the Matty is neutered by the Pak38 and PzH. The Cru2 does a .35 -.4 vrs the PzH and the A13 does about the same. The Cru3 does abysmal vrs the 4G and StugG, while the CH3 does about a .8 vrs the 4G. And I know the Axis hate the 4G... try driving around a CH3 or Cru3 for a bit.  The CH7 is major RPAT and Sapper bait because of it being very easily sapped on the move and the RPAT totally negates its armor. Not only that the sap area at the fuel tank is large, you don't have to be precise. It has a armor leak in the front which allows for even the 4G to kill it at 1500m frontally.  The BEF tanking experience after T0 is very much akin to the Axis T0 tanking experience for the rest of the map. Its in desperate need of love.

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37 minutes ago, stankyus said:

The CH7 is major RPAT and Sapper bait because of it being very easily sapped on the move and the RPAT totally negates its armor.

I think you could probably say the same for all armor on all sides.

Last intermission, well you know how it goes, everyone wants a tiger. Got tired of trying to fend them off
I got me an FM, nice french fried anti tank weapon, and just let them come rushing in, and started wasting them, with out a terrible amount of effort except get kind of close.
They come blasting in 6 or 7 at a time.
Yea not the normal campaign thing 6 or 7 tigers, but point is i just started blasting them, and they went pop without so much as a complaint.
Except a few where my shot was just off, or i pushed the range too far.
Point of impact and angle do matter, got to hit something good or angry tank runs you over, and we have no nurse fixAbooboo in game.

Anyways it was intermission with much silliness, my only point is if you are driving a tank around RPATS, your probably going POP regardless of tank type.

Intermission being what it is, we also had some fun with ahmed the suicide sapper.
Determined the hardest tank to sap (in motion) was the stuart, its simply fast and alot of times hits you before the satchel sticks
Easiest was the R35, you could sap it in top gear, hell you could sprint and out run it, you might very well feel sorry for it and let it go free to live among the sheep in peace.
Stu resulted in a more than 50/50 chance of hearing CRUNCH AIIYEEEAAARG THUMP THUMP, then again the STU does 50 in reverse. (exaggerating)

The Morris you were pretty much guaranteed dead, no sap.
The ragdoll effect was a riot though.

These were headon saps, mostly done for the giggles more than any real testing, but it did show that you could sap most anything in motion.


From the side, the morris was probably the hardest thing to sap (its fast and short), and if you got it stuck there was no guarantee at all where exactly it stuck.
Tanks wise, stu was mostly the hardest, guess because its small and moves pretty fast, hard to guarantee location of placement.
If you stuck your nose out too far, you went crunch.
The slower the tank, the more you could guarantee placement location, things that moved in the R35 B1 speed range were kind of easy mode.
Anything driven in this speed range was easy mode, well easy mode if you knew where you were placing.
 

All the faster tanks were too hard to chase and sap from the rear, though playing the benny hill chase theme while doing so was fun.
Ahmed ran out of ATP too fast, he apparently ate too many jelly donuts and had too many cigars.
Slow tanks were kind of easy except when you accidentally ran into them, then you died from the invisible poison sprayed on them :D

Again this was not really done for real testing but to get some silly video clips, but its still useful to an extent that it shows anyone can get hammered by ahmed the suicide sapper.
Ahmed even succeeded, after many attempts, to sap a moving H75.
Mind you it was at near stall, hovering at full flaps and ready to wing flop over at any second. (It was the only plane i could fly that slow)
And poor ahmed did lose his head in the prop

Silliness aside, it would appear that pretty much all units are relatively as vulnerable as the next unit with similar qualities (like speed) to attack from the little two legged denizens of death.

 

And yes, i do very retarded things during intermission

 

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1 hour ago, merlin51 said:

I think you could probably say the same for all armor on all sides.

Last intermission, well you know how it goes, everyone wants a tiger. Got tired of trying to fend them off
I got me an FM, nice french fried anti tank weapon, and just let them come rushing in, and started wasting them, with out a terrible amount of effort except get kind of close.
They come blasting in 6 or 7 at a time.
Yea not the normal campaign thing 6 or 7 tigers, but point is i just started blasting them, and they went pop without so much as a complaint.
Except a few where my shot was just off, or i pushed the range too far.
Point of impact and angle do matter, got to hit something good or angry tank runs you over, and we have no nurse fixAbooboo in game.

Anyways it was intermission with much silliness, my only point is if you are driving a tank around RPATS, your probably going POP regardless of tank type.

Intermission being what it is, we also had some fun with ahmed the suicide sapper.
Determined the hardest tank to sap (in motion) was the stuart, its simply fast and alot of times hits you before the satchel sticks
Easiest was the R35, you could sap it in top gear, hell you could sprint and out run it, you might very well feel sorry for it and let it go free to live among the sheep in peace.
Stu resulted in a more than 50/50 chance of hearing CRUNCH AIIYEEEAAARG THUMP THUMP, then again the STU does 50 in reverse. (exaggerating)

The Morris you were pretty much guaranteed dead, no sap.
The ragdoll effect was a riot though.

These were headon saps, mostly done for the giggles more than any real testing, but it did show that you could sap most anything in motion.


From the side, the morris was probably the hardest thing to sap (its fast and short), and if you got it stuck there was no guarantee at all where exactly it stuck.
Tanks wise, stu was mostly the hardest, guess because its small and moves pretty fast, hard to guarantee location of placement.
If you stuck your nose out too far, you went crunch.
The slower the tank, the more you could guarantee placement location, things that moved in the R35 B1 speed range were kind of easy mode.
Anything driven in this speed range was easy mode, well easy mode if you knew where you were placing.
 

All the faster tanks were too hard to chase and sap from the rear, though playing the benny hill chase theme while doing so was fun.
Ahmed ran out of ATP too fast, he apparently ate too many jelly donuts and had too many cigars.
Slow tanks were kind of easy except when you accidentally ran into them, then you died from the invisible poison sprayed on them :D

Again this was not really done for real testing but to get some silly video clips, but its still useful to an extent that it shows anyone can get hammered by ahmed the suicide sapper.
Ahmed even succeeded, after many attempts, to sap a moving H75.
Mind you it was at near stall, hovering at full flaps and ready to wing flop over at any second. (It was the only plane i could fly that slow)
And poor ahmed did lose his head in the prop

Silliness aside, it would appear that pretty much all units are relatively as vulnerable as the next unit with similar qualities (like speed) to attack from the little two legged denizens of death.

 

And yes, i do very retarded things during intermission

 

Sapper bait - like the Char you can outrun him and place the satchel with the exception if they are on the road but I have successful done so as the went past standing stationary. All AFVs can be done but few are as easy as the CH7.

 

RPAT negating its armor - The Shreck can get through the CH7 armor anywhere on it. 200mm of penetration vrs 154mm max armor. More than enough to get an off angle kill including a frontal kill.  The zook has half its penetration power. The only thing that is superior on the zook is the site, its IMHO far better than the Shreck... The PIAT is the POS in most regards, I wish it had 4 HEAT and 2 HE because its so POS... use it in the heavy mortar roll... you know for a arbituary thing for game plays sake.

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